nancy's Mini Normal review

[mhsmith0]

One quick note is that all scum roles being one-shot, and all of those being theoretically things that ought to be claimable, is probably something they might end up claiming over the course of the game and being outed for since only scum have 1-shot roles. I'm somewhat inclined to suggest that scum be given a full roleblocker instead of either the follow or neapolitan, especially since as given town has a jailkeeper, gunsmith AND vigilante, plus an effective masonizer which is fairly strong I think.

But overall gut says a bit too townsided as currently constructued.

[mhsmith0]

Scum PMs should say that they can only speak at night.

Disagree, especially if role PMs are flipped. Now, you CAN say "can talk at night" since an encryptor would override that (if there was one), but ONLY at night reveals no encryptor, and town doesn't need that info.

Not sure what I think about the scum wincon or the three one-shots.

Scum wincon phrased a bit odd but I don't think I hate it. The three one-shots of semi villagery roles is a bit odd though fwiw.

I think the JK neighbour should probably be told of his partner's encryptorness.

Why? I don't see why one player is entitled to that information; not like the encryptor gets to know the other is JK.

Not sure what I think about the neighbouriser-encryptor interaction.

I think the game is also rather town-favoured. You could probably drop any two town power roles and have it be more balanced.

Agree on at least one town PR. Wouldn't outright drop a 2nd, as towns should always have three PRs (and neighbor isn't a PR), but dropping one and gating one might be ok. Or scum could get more power. Either way there is rebalancing needed, but which direction depends on nancy's preference.

[mhsmith0]

Town 2-shot Weak Neighborizer
Town Daytalk Enabler Neighbor
Town Jailkeeper Neighbor
Town 1-shot Bulletproof Bodyguard
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie

Mafia Neapolitan
Mafia Doctor
Mafia Goon

does the BP bodyguard survive a successful bodyguard usage? Or just getting shot at himself?

Weak neighborizer obviously a very powerful role, jailkeeper fairly strong too, and the bp/bg presuming he can survive a save is very useful too. Mafia doctor is a bit of a trap here honestly, not sure how it'd get setup spec'd, but once the BP/BG flips it'd be obvious that the claim is fake to anyone knowing cursory setup spec. I MIGHT just suggest something like a gunsmith there to get a bit of mod wifom about giving scum two investigative roles. Maybe like an odd night gunsmith since the point is to be claimable not to actually be useful.

[mhsmith0]

lol no i meant turn mafia doctor into a oddnight gunsmith. town def. doesn't need another solid pr here.

[mhsmith0]

Town 2-shot Weak Neighborizer
Town Daytalk Enabler Neighbor
Town Jailkeeper Neighbor
Town 1-shot Bulletproof Bodyguard
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie

Mafia Neapolitan
Mafia Odd Night GS
Mafia Goon

town has clear power but scum have pretty interesting and legitimate fake claims to work with (GS is a pure fake claim with no actual use beyond existing as something claimable)

[mhsmith0]

Objectively town would likely setup spec lynch ONE scum and clear the other given weak neighbor but I think that's fine overall.

[mhsmith0]

I'll relook at this around noon tomorow, going to bed soon.

[mhsmith0]

So it sounds like

Town Daytalk Enabler Neighbor
Town Jailkeeper Neighbor
Town 1-shot Bulletproof Bodyguard
Mason
Mason
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie

Mafia Neopolitan
Mafia Odd-Night Night Gunsmith
Mafia Goon


JK/BP BG/masonry + Encryptor
vs
Neo/2goon


is the main setup, with various spoilered nerfs as possible options? I'm basically ok with it, though it's probably going to be fairly swingy on how scum use the gunsmith, since it's actually there to be claimed as necessary, but they're pretty unlikely to realize it for quite a while. 2 masons and a JK and a BG with a BP is a solid amount of town power (and power that doesn't screw with itself very much), and scum's power is largely not a direct counter, but rather there to be claimed if/as needed, with a general structure of enforcing "they can't be scum together" setup spec of GS/neapolitan.

But yeah I'm ok with this balance wise. Probably we'll either see town bitching about being screwed if scum play off their two PRs well, and scum bitching about it if they do it badly, but there's always something someone complains about.

[mhsmith0]

i mean it's basically introducing wifom/setup spec into the setup explicitly as a potential scum counter to town's power. If you like that kind of structure, cool, but if you think it's inelegant, we can do any number of other ideas. What really matters is what kind of game you want to run, and then we take that and work to balance it.

[mhsmith0]

im ok w it

[mhsmith0]

AND I RAISE YOU AN RC

[mhsmith0]

So flavor-wise I'd say that anything R18 should probably be reserved for mini theme, since part of the idea behind a normal is that anyone can /in without issues. I don't think it's explicitly stated that it's a normal queue requirement, but at the same time I think there are probably a pretty decent # of underage players on site, and I think that, at the very least, there could be some potential issues either with legal or just squick with someone underage playing in an R18 themed game (IIRC R18 type games have some level of controls to make sure ppl are in fact 18+ but I can't swear to it).