mhsmith0's Large Normal Review


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Post Post #25 (ISO) » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:48 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

Worst case:

for red: bp lynched D1, goon and roleblocker shot N1, they lose

for blue: bp lynched D1, strongman shot by red or a vig, traitor endgamed N1

for town: VT lynched D1 (have to think a PR wouldn't be, except maybe the BP), 2-3 PRs shot N1 (4 possible but at some point let's not go nuts), D2 down to (let's say)
Vig
Tracker
Hider
1-shot BP
5 vts

Basically any team has the potential to get crushed early on. There's a big incentive for scum teams NOT to cross-kill (and a BP being on both teams is a hint that the other team might have one as well), but obviously scum could cross-kill anyway (whether on purpose or not). Scum need to not get hit by cross-killing or vigs and to at least achieve occassional mislynches (lynching other scum team also works). Town need to either get helped by cross-kills or have solid scum-hunting or night actions.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
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Post Post #26 (ISO) » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:50 am

Post by Firebringer »

I really think 4 kills in one night makes things go too far.
I think you should probably take out the 1 shot strongman big and replace it with something else.
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"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #27 (ISO) » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:52 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

The real question is how realistic 4 kills per night would be, given:
1) A doctor
2) Four 1-shot BPs
3) Likely kill overlapping

I might mull over swapping out the 1-shot strongman vig, but IMO that's a role that likely holsters early on until there's a clear and obvious target. And obviously vig or strongman vig could die early.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #28 (ISO) » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:55 am

Post by Firebringer »

In post 27, mhsmith0 wrote:The real question is how realistic 4 kills per night would be, given:
1) A doctor
2) Four 1-shot BPs
3) Likely kill overlapping

I might mull over swapping out the 1-shot strongman vig, but IMO that's a role that likely holsters early on until there's a clear and obvious target. And obviously vig or strongman vig could die early.
I mean unrealistic, probably but still is a lot of possible deaths.
I would say never count out the unexpected.

Things in games never seem to go how you want or vision them to go.

I don't know what you would swap the 1 shot strongman out for, but I definitely think theres too much potential killing even though it is massively curved with other roles. Not so sure what to do there, don't think the answer is to add more protection. Maybe delay the 1 shot strongman? Make it a night 2 action?
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"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #29 (ISO) » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:56 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

I don't know that I'd explicitly make it night 2, but I'm fine with adding a "not night 1" modifier to the 1-shot strongman vig.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #30 (ISO) » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:57 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

Frankly, I'm increasingly convinced that people who rand 1/2 shot PR's blow their shots too early, and that's part of why town win rates are so bad with 1-2 shot roles. So I'm fine with basically forcing the 1-shot not to blow it N1.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #31 (ISO) » Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:03 am

Post by Firebringer »

I have never heard of a modifier for "not night 1" to be honest. I don't know if that will fly a normal modifier? If we can allow that, I do suggest since I think that will reduce the swing in the game.

What are your thoughts about changing Hider to Follower?
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"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #32 (ISO) » Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:11 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

I'm ok w follower instead of hider. Enough killing roles here that it's not a cheap guilty or the like.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #33 (ISO) » Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:15 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

I could slap on an even night one shot modifier if needed to the strongman vig, that gets rid of any possible issues with a simple "not n1" modifier.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #34 (ISO) » Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:31 am

Post by Firebringer »

I think thats fine.
I think that would be a decent balanced setup.
Mykonian any additional thoughts on the roles?

@Mhsmith you should probably make your openning posts.
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"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #35 (ISO) » Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:52 am

Post by mykonian »

blue is a lot weaker than red, yes, I don't think that's particulary worrying.

To a certain point the amount of scum in the setup is offset by a strong role (the vig). That does mean that if you want to use it that way and get to a somewhat workable start, all or all but the traitor should be soft to him. After that, the strongman vig isn't super needed but you might like it anyway. Town would still be on the weaker side, I think. Follower, tracker is alright, doc is very nice to have, but that's it. I'd want an extra role there.

So balance wise I think you need to cut from scum, probably add a little on towns side. But the first is more important, given how close town starts out to having a game where scum have the ability to steer lynches quite a bit.
Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.
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Post Post #36 (ISO) » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:36 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

Draft opening posts:
In post 0, mhsmith0 wrote:
Welcome to Large Normal xxx!

Your moderator is mhsmith0 and your backup moderator is xxx. This setup has been reviewed by Firebringer, Cogito Ergo Sum, and mykonian for normalcy and balance.

Playerlist:
* = prods

Spoiler: Living Players


Spoiler: Dead Players



Spoiler: Event History
[/list]
In post 1, mhsmith0 wrote:
General Site Rules that we all pretty much know:
  • If you have something that you need to communicate with me
    bold
    your text or I cannot guarantee I will see it.
  • As the MOD I reserve the right to modkill or force-replace players as I see fit.
  • If you feel I have erred send me a PM and let me know.
  • That said, do not bring disagreements with me into the thread. That is what the PM is for. The same goes for disagreements with other players.
  • Do not use invisible or in some way encrypted fonts or typing.
  • Follow all the site rules. Play to your wincon but above all play to have fun. Do not ruin the game for others.
General game rules:
  • I will use the colour
    #FFAA00
    . This is my color and only my color. Don't use it.
  • A lynch is reached when a majority of all players (half rounded down plus one) are voting for the same target.
  • If a majority is not reached by the deadline, a No Lynch will occur.
  • You may vote No Lynch in the same way that you vote for a lynch. Once a majority has voted for a no lynch the day immediately ends.
  • Abuse of an infinite no-lynch/no-kill loop will not be tolerated. Do not even contemplate it.
  • Votes must be written in
    bold
    as
    Vote: Player
    or use the VOTE: Player tag. Votes that are not tagged will not be counted.
  • Votes in quotes, spoiler tags or otherwise hidden will also not be counted.
  • Votes that misspell or have other minor errors will be counted as normal as long as I understand what you are getting at.
  • Unvotes are helpful, but not necessary. Let me know if I make an error in vote counts and I will correct them.
  • I will try and do vote counts often but if you want one just let me know.
  • As the MOD I will keep communication down to the absolute minimum possible (aside from vote counts and the like). I do not want to influence the game itself – that is for the players to do.
  • This is a closed setup. The setup has been reviewed for normalcy and balance.
  • Flips will have full role revealed (I will essentially post the PM you received on your flip with the obvious required reductions)
Game Flow:
  • The Game will begin and the thread will be unlocked after 10 players confirm via PM.
  • Please announce if you are going on V/LA. I prefer this announced in thread unless there is a specific reason not to.
  • If you have not posted for 48 hours you will receive a prod. If you do not post within 24 hours of a prod you will be replaced.
  • Three prods will result in being replaced.
  • The first two day phases will last a maximum of 14 days. Day Three will last a maximum of 12 days, Day Four a maximum of 10 days, and all subsequent Days Phases no more than 8 days.
  • Each Night Phase will last 48 hours. Starting on Night Three, I will accept speed deadlines if ALL players (including those without night actions) ask for it via PM.
  • You may communicate as normal during the twilight phase until I close the thread but votes/un-votes will not count.
  • Extensions may be granted for replacements or extenuating circumstances.
  • A missed Night Action will result in a No Action.
  • The game will end when all threats to town have been eliminated or that is not possible.
  • A single player may potentially perform up to two actions per night phase. This means that, for instance, a scum player may use an active ability AND kill a target player on the same night.

  • Day talk is active.
  • If you must replace out, PM me privately and stop posting in thread.
  • Spoiler: At least one player will receive the following role PM
    Welcome to Large Normal xxx! You are a
    Vanilla Townie
    !

    Abilities

    You have your voice and your vote. Use them well to discover the truth.

    Win Condition:
    You win when all threats are eliminated to the town and at least one town member is still alive.


    Here is the game thread. Please confirm via PM with your role name and alignment
    wrt announcing whether it's multi-ball, some large normals do, some don't, and I'm not especially inclined to announce it barring an explicitly good reason to do so
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    Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
    BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
    Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
    SR: I want to give him a day
    Life is simply unfair, don't you think?