BigYoshiFan's Mini Normal Review

Nexus · Post Post #0 (ISO) » Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:12 pm

BigYoshiFan wrote:Hello Nexus!
I have my game ready whenever it's called.
I will have 13 players in my game.
I am currently in the process of getting a backup-mod.
I have no prior modding experience and I am currently in two games:
Skullduggery's Undertale Mafia
Large Normal 197
I was thinking at least the Large Normal would be over before my game got started, so it's okay if you keep my game a low priority for a few weeks or a month.

I don't think "hidden moderator information" applies to me. All result PM's will be standard except for the Modified Ascetic, for when it attacks and it is susceptible to all night actions. (Role Cops will receive "Your target is a Modified Ascetic." Neapolitans receive "Your target is not vanilla.")

Here is the setup, rules, roles, and opening posts:

Landmark Mafia! Mini Normal ______

Setup:

Town Motion Detector
Town Non-Consecutive Watcher
Town Odd-Night Role Cop
Town 1-shot Rolestopper
Town Weak Neapolitan
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie

Mafia Modified Ascetic
Mafia Roleblocker
Mafia Goon

Town

Role PM’s

Spoiler:
Welcome ______ to Mini Normal _____!

You are a
Town Motion Detector
.

Abilities:

Each night, you may target a player and learn if they targeted anyone or if they were targeted by someone else, but not who was involved.

Win condition:

You win once all threats to the town have been eliminated and at least one townie is alive.

Make sure you have read all the rules. Good luck and have fun!

Game thread: ___________

Welcome ______ to Mini Normal _____!

You are a
Town Non-Consecutive Watcher
.

Abilities:

Each night, you may choose to target a player and learn who, if anybody, targeted that player but not what action was performed. You may not use this ability two nights consecutively.

Win condition:

You win once all threats to the town have been eliminated and at least one townie is alive.

Make sure you have read all the rules. Good luck and have fun!

Game thread: ___________

Welcome _______ to Mini Normal ____!

You are a
Town Odd-Night Role Cop
.

Abilities:

Each odd night (Nights 1, 3, 5, and so on) you may target a player and learn the role name of your target, but not their alignment.

Win Condition:

You win once all threats to the town have been eliminated and at least one townie is alive.

Make sure you have read all the rules. Good luck and have fun!

Game thread: ___________

Welcome _______ to Mini Normal ____!

You are a
Town 1-shot Rolestopper
.

Abilities:

Each night, you may choose a player and stop all actions targeting that player. You may only use this ability once.

Win Condition:

You win once all threats to the town have been eliminated and at least one townie is alive.

Make sure you have read all the rules. Good luck and have fun!

Game thread: ___________

Welcome _______ to Mini Normal ____!

You are a
Town Weak Neapolitan
.

Abilities:

Each night, you may choose a player and learn if the player is Vanilla or Not Vanilla. Vanilla Townies, Mafia Goons, and Serial Killers with no other powers are considered “Vanilla”. You will die if you target any anti-town aligned player.

Win Condition:

You win once all threats to the town have been eliminated and at least one townie is alive.

Make sure you have read all the rules. Good luck and have fun!

Game thread: ___________

Welcome ______ to Mini Normal ____!

You are a
Vanilla Townie

Abilities:

You have your vote and your voice, use them wisely.

Win Conditions:

You win once all threats to the town have been eliminated and at least one townie is alive.

Make sure you have read all the rules. Good luck and have fun!

Game thread: ___________

Mafia

Role PM’s

Spoiler:
Welcome _______ to Mini Normal ____!

You are a
Mafia Modified Ascetic
.

You are allied with ________ (
Mafia Roleblocker
) and ________ (
Mafia Goon
)

Here is your private mafia thread:__________

Abilities:

You are immune to all Night Actions except kills, returning results as if the action was roleblocked. However, you lose this ascetic property on nights you perform kills.
You may converse privately with your mafia allies during the night.
You may converse privately with your mafia allies during the day.

Mafia Factional Kill:

Every night, you may submit your factional kill like so: [Player] kills [Player]

Win Condition:

You win when the
mafia
controls 50% of the town or if nothing can prevent this from happening.

Make sure you have read all the rules. Good luck and have fun!

Game thread: ___________

Welcome ______ to Mini Normal ____!

You are a
Mafia Roleblocker
.

You are allied with ________ (
Mafia Modified Ascetic
) and ________ (
Mafia Goon
)

Here is your private mafia thread:________

Abilities:

Each night you may block a player, stopping their role from working.
You may converse privately with your mafia allies during the night.
You may converse privately with your mafia allies during the day.

Mafia Factional Kill:

Every night, you may submit your factional kill like so: [Player] kills [Player]

Win Condition:

You win when the
mafia
controls 50% of the town or if nothing can prevent this from happening.

Make sure you have read all the rules. Good luck and have fun!

Game thread: ___________

Welcome _______ to Mini Normal ____!

You are a
Mafia Goon
.

You are allied with ______ (
Mafia Modified Ascetic
) and ______ (
Mafia Roleblocker
)

Here is your private mafia thread:_______

Abilities:

You may converse privately with your mafia allies during the night.
You may converse privately with your mafia allies during the day.

Mafia Factional Kill:

Every night, you may submit your factional kill like so: [Player] kills [Player]

Win Condition:

You win when the
mafia
controls 50% of the town or if nothing can prevent this from happening.

Make sure you have read all the rules. Good luck and have fun!

Game thread: ___________

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M
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_

Thank you for joining me in my first moderated game! We're gonna have lots of fun!

F
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P
l
a
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r

L
i
s
t
:

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*][/list](* denotes a prod)

W
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?

Spoiler:

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?

Spoiler:

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G
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R
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F
o
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all site rules

Play to win, and be nice!

I do not mind
s
w
e
a
r
i
n
g
, but personal attacks are
N
O
T
tolerated!

P
o
s
t

u
s
i
n
g

o
n
l
y
the Mafiascum default text and do not post encrypted, hidden, or very small text.

P
i
n
k

a
n
d

b
l
u
e

f
a
d
e
d

t
e
x
t

i
s

m
y

c
o
l
o
r
,

d
o

n
o
t

u
s
e

i
t
.

U
s
e
proper etiquette, please. (Spoiler tabs for long posts, L-1 Warnings, etc.)

N
o

"
B
a
h
!
"

p
o
s
t
s
once you die.

D
O

N
O
T
quote anything from private threads or messages.

D
O

N
O
T
edit any of your posts.

D
O

N
O
T
extensively use capital letters.

D
O

N
O
T
talk about this game on any thread but here, and
D
O

N
O
T
talk about ongoing games on here.

V
o
t
i
n
g

a
n
d

D
e
a
d
l
i
n
e
s

D
a
y
s
are 2 weeks long.
N
i
g
h
t
s
are 2 days long.

E
x
t
e
n
s
i
o
n
s
can be given at my discretion depending on the situation.

U
s
e

v
o
t
e

t
a
g
s
for voting. Bold is okay, but vote tags are preferred.

A
l
y
n
c
h
occurs when a majority is reached. (at least 50% of all votes) If
n
o

m
a
j
o
r
i
t
y
has been reached by the deadline, no lynch will occur.

A
N
o

L
y
n
c
h
and
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a
w
votes are acceptable. A No Lynch requires a majority vote; A Draw requires an agreement of all living players. Do not abuse the Draw vote.

O
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a

m
a
j
o
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y

i
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c
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, everyone may continue to talk, but no votes can be changed. This phase of the game is often referred to as the
t
w
i
l
i
g
h
t
phase.

If there exists any
a
m
b
i
g
u
i
t
y
over who you wanted to vote or what action you wanted to perform, it will not count.

I
f

y
o
u

d
o

n
o
t
submit a night action before the deadline, you will take no action.

P
r
o
d
s

a
n
d

R
e
p
l
a
c
e
m
e
n
t
s

P
r
o
d
s
will be given after 48 hours of inactivity.

R
e
p
l
a
c
e
m
e
n
t
s
will be searched for 24 hours after you have received a prod and not responded.

If you anticipate to be
V
/
L
A
for over 48 hours, let me know via chat or PM.

When you have received your
4
t
h

p
r
o
d
, you will be replaced.

M
i
s
c
e
l
l
a
n
e
o
u
s

I
f

y
o
u

n
o
t
i
c
e

a
n

e
r
r
o
r
made by me, any error at all, please let me know ASAP! I won't take it offensively, promise.

If you have something
d
i
r
e
c
t
e
d

t
o
w
a
r
d
s

m
e
in thread, use the vote tag or bold and include @Mod or @Yoshi in the text.

I
f

y
o
u

a
r
e

u
n
s
u
r
e

a
b
o
u
t

a
n
y
t
h
i
n
g
, whether it be something you can post or clarification about the rules or your role, PM me. I won't bite!

As a moderator,
m
y

w
o
r
d

i
s

f
i
n
a
l
.

I

r
e
s
e
r
v
e

t
h
e

r
i
g
h
t
to add or change these rules whenever needed. If this happens you will all be notified.

G
a
m
e
-
S
p
e
c
i
f
i
c

R
u
l
e
s

All mafia factions have
d
a
y
t
a
l
k
. A member of a mafia faction cannot perform an ability and kill at the same time.

Vanilla Townie
Role PM Sample:

Spoiler:
Welcome ______ to Mini Normal ____!

You are a
Vanilla Townie

Abilities:

You have your vote and your voice, use them wisely.

Win Conditions:

You win once all threats to the town have been eliminated and at least one townie is alive.

Make sure you have read all the rules. Good luck and have fun!

Empking · Post Post #1 (ISO) » Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:36 am

A lynch is not reached at 50% of the votes (see even number of votes), but more than 50%.

Why make the ascetic modified?

I don't see any issues in the contents of the role PMs.

In terms of balance I'd say its scum-favoured, and I'd be inclined to drop one of the scum PRs, but I don't think it is abnormally imbalanced and I'm glad that the weak role is a result-getter. I'll see what the other two have to say.

BigYoshiFan · Post Post #2 (ISO) » Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:02 am

I've changed the wording regarding lynches to: "Over 50% of all votes"
I had the ascetic modified because I thought leaving it as a full ascetic would be too much, but removing it as a whole was too less, and the modification could lead to some interesting gameplay.
I also thought ascetic was an appropriate choice given all of the investigative roles and PR's.

Would it be better if I removed the ascetic altogether? Perhaps replaced it with a weaker power role?

mhsmith0 · Post Post #3 (ISO) » Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:12 am

Scumsided

10v3
Town Motion Detector
Town Non-Consecutive Watcher
Town Odd-Night Role Cop
Town 1-shot Rolestopper
Town Weak Neapolitan
5x Vanilla Townies

Vs
Mafia Modified Ascetic
Mafia Roleblocker
Mafia Goon

Motion detector is near useless, the only use of 1-shot rolestopper is to make up for the weak role suiciding (and it can really screw w investigatives), weak Neapolitan is gonna be super swingy since it hard confirms w results and dies w guilties.

I don't see at all what kind of town power is here that the roleblocker is required to overcome; watcher is the main power role and even that's nerfed by non consecutive modifier, and can be messed w by rolestopper, roleblocker and ascetic.

Nor do I see why town power is enough that full day talk is needed.

Off the cuff I'd say turn roleblocker into encryptor, and MAYBE slice out the motion detector. Or make roleblocker 1-shot, and turn goon into encryptor.

BigYoshiFan · Post Post #4 (ISO) » Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:27 am

I like the idea of making the roleblocker 1-shot and making the goon an encryptor. I am aware that if I make this change, the rule stating all mafia factions have daytalk must be changed.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #5 (ISO) » Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:41 am

Correct. Encryptor is worse for scum than full day talk, because he needs to be protected.

BigYoshiFan · Post Post #6 (ISO) » Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:47 am

In post 5, mhsmith0 wrote:Correct. Encryptor is worse for scum than full day talk, because he needs to be protected.

Indeed. With the change you proposed, all mafia members have something to bring to the table. They have to decide which role they are willing to lose if they happen to be caught. I love it!

Empking · Post Post #7 (ISO) » Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:51 am

I think I could ageee to the balance changes proposed.

BigYoshiFan · Post Post #8 (ISO) » Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:06 am

Also, something that was pointed out to me by my back-up moderator, Ircher: The Role PM of the town neapolitan specifies the parameters of a vanilla cop, not a neapolitan. I've changed the role of "Town Weak Neapolitan" to "Town Weak Vanilla Cop". The role, combined with a weak modifier, doesn't make a difference. But you know, things must be consistent.

ISO · Post Post #9 (ISO) » Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:39 am

As an alternate suggestion, what if the Motion Detector was made a VT and the ascetic replaced w/ an encryptor? Would that still be scumsided? (Town would be able to get guilties w/ the Watcher, Weak Neo, and a single guilty w/ the Cop then.) Maybe just nerf the RBer to Odd-Night?

BigYoshiFan · Post Post #10 (ISO) » Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:30 am

I'm gonna wait for input from mykonian before I make any changes.

mykonian · Post Post #11 (ISO) » Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:00 am

I have had a busy couple of christmas days, I'll have a look at this tonight (couple of hours).

I agree with empking that ascetic and rb was a bit too much for scum.

mykonian · Post Post #12 (ISO) » Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:22 am

hmm, the fact that the weak role gets to see if he gets a result is a nice touch, I like that.

I think where you are going with cutting the RB down is a good idea, encryptor could be fun and I can't care for the motion detector either. Seems like this is going in the right direction.

BigYoshiFan · Post Post #13 (ISO) » Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:43 am

Town Motion Detector
Town Non-Consecutive Watcher
Town Odd-Night Role Cop
Town 1-shot Rolestopper
Town Weak Vanilla Cop
5x Vanilla Townies

vs.

Mafia Modified Ascetic
Mafia 1-shot Roleblocker
Mafia Encryptor

Is this good to everyone?
Motion detector can be cut out. Is that necesssary?

BigYoshiFan · Post Post #14 (ISO) » Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:52 pm

Landmark Mafia! Mini Normal ______

Setup:

Town Motion Detector
Town Non-Consecutive Watcher
Town Odd-Night Role Cop
Town 1-shot Rolestopper
Town Weak Vanilla Cop
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie

Mafia Modified Ascetic
Mafia 1-shot Roleblocker
Mafia Encryptor

Town

Role PM’s

Spoiler:

Mafia

Role PM’s

Spoiler:

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[/i]

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Thank you for joining me in my first moderated game and thanks to my reviewers and backup moderator! We're gonna have lots of fun!

F

u

l

P

l

a

y

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r

L

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t

:

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*][/list](* denotes a prod)

W

h

o

i

s

t

i

l

a

l

i

v

e

?

Spoiler:

W

h

o

h

a

s

d

i

e

d

?

Spoiler:

R

u

l

e

s

G

e

n

e

r

a

l

R

u

l

e

s

F
o
l
l
o
w
all site rules
Play to win, and be nice!
I do not mind
s
w
e
a
r
i
n
g
, but personal attacks are
N
O
T
tolerated!
P
o
s
t

u
s
i
n
g

o
n
l
y
the Mafiascum default text and do not post encrypted, hidden, or very small text.
P
i
n
k

a
n
d

b
l
u
e

f
a
d
e
d

t
e
x
t

i
s

m
y

c
o
l
o
r
,

d
o

n
o
t

u
s
e

i
t
.
U
s
e
proper etiquette, please. (Spoiler tabs for long posts, L-1 Warnings, etc.)
N
o

"
B
a
h
!
"

p
o
s
t
s
once you die.
D
O

N
O
T
quote anything from private threads or messages.
D
O

N
O
T
edit any of your posts.
D
O

N
O
T
extensively use capital letters.
D
O

N
O
T
talk about this game on any thread but here, and
D
O

N
O
T
talk about ongoing games on here.

V

o

t

i

n

g

a

n

d

D

e

a

d

l

i

n

e

s

D
a
y
s
are 2 weeks long.
N
i
g
h
t
s
are 2 days long.
E
x
t
e
n
s
i
o
n
s
can be given at my discretion depending on the situation.
U
s
e

v
o
t
e

t
a
g
s
for voting. Bold is okay, but vote tags are preferred.
A
l
y
n
c
h
occurs when a majority is reached. (over 50% of all votes) If
n
o

m
a
j
o
r
i
t
y
has been reached by the deadline, no lynch will occur.
A
N
o

L
y
n
c
h
and
D
r
a
w
votes are acceptable. A No Lynch requires a majority vote; A Draw requires an agreement of all living players. Do not abuse the Draw vote.
O
n
c
e

a

m
a
j
o
r
i
t
y

i
s

r
e
a
c
h
e
d
, everyone may continue to talk, but no votes can be changed. This phase of the game is often referred to as the
t
w
i
l
i
g
h
t
phase.
If there exists any
a
m
b
i
g
u
i
t
y
over who you wanted to vote or what action you wanted to perform, it will not count.
I
f

y
o
u

d
o

n
o
t
submit a night action before the deadline, you will take no action.

P

r

o

d

s

a

n

d

R

e

p

l

a

c

e

m

e

n

t

s

P
r
o
d
s
will be given after 48 hours of inactivity.
R
e
p
l
a
c
e
m
e
n
t
s
will be searched for 24 hours after you have received a prod and not responded.
If you anticipate to be
V
/
L
A
for over 48 hours, let me know via chat or PM.
When you have received your
4
t
h

p
r
o
d
, you will be replaced.

M

i

s

c

e

l

a

n

e

o

u

s

I
f

y
o
u

n
o
t
i
c
e

a
n

e
r
r
o
r
made by me, any error at all, please let me know ASAP! I won't take it offensively, promise.
If you have something
d
i
r
e
c
t
e
d

t
o
w
a
r
d
s

m
e
in thread, use the vote tag or bold and include @Mod or @Yoshi in the text.
I
f

y
o
u

a
r
e

u
n
s
u
r
e

a
b
o
u
t

a
n
y
t
h
i
n
g
, whether it be something you can post or clarification about the rules or your role, PM me. I won't bite!
As a moderator,
m
y

w
o
r
d

i
s

f
i
n
a
l
.
I

r
e
s
e
r
v
e

t
h
e

r
i
g
h
t
to add or change these rules whenever needed. If this happens you will all be notified.

G

a

m

e

-

S

p

e

c

i

f

i

c

R

u

l

e

s

A member of a mafia faction cannot perform an ability and kill at the same time.

Vanilla Townie

Role PM Sample:

Spoiler:

Changes made:
Town Weak Neapolitan was replaced with Town Vanilla Cop for reasons stated already.
The last rule regarding the mafia has been altered, so the mafia does NOT have daytalk without an encryptor.
Mafia Goon was replaced with Mafia Encryptor and Mafia Roleblocker was changed to Mafia 1-shot Roleblocker (PM's changed accordingly).

Had time so I just made the changes anyway. Anyone think something needs to be changed?

ISO · Post Post #15 (ISO) » Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:55 pm

Go ahead and cut the Motion Detector. Pretty sure it's not needed here.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #16 (ISO) » Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:56 pm

The watcher and the weak vanilla cop are basically the roles that matter, with the rest being near cherries on top (rolestopper MIGHT help but 1-shot is always gonna be limited, and can block town power instead). Role cop might slightly help (especially if it hits the encryptor), motion detector is like the ultimate cherry on top role but is mainly there to be claimed as opposed to being useful.

Off the top of my head I think it's balanced. What say everyone else?

Empking · Post Post #17 (ISO) » Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:57 pm

I'm indifferent towards the Motion Detector.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #18 (ISO) » Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:58 pm

I'm fine either way tbh. It's nearly useless anyway. With scum having three actual PRs, I have a slight bias towards giving town that fifth PR even if it sucks, just for the sake of being claimable, but I can live with it taken out.

ISO · Post Post #19 (ISO) » Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:02 pm

In post 16, mhsmith0 wrote:The watcher and the weak vanilla cop are basically the roles that matter, with the rest being near cherries on top (rolestopper MIGHT help but 1-shot is always gonna be limited, and can block town power instead). Role cop might slightly help (especially if it hits the encryptor), motion detector is like the ultimate cherry on top role but is mainly there to be claimed as opposed to being useful.

Off the top of my head I think it's balanced. What say everyone else?

5 town PRs is pretty high for mini normals (in my experience). I really think it's better left out cuz mafia isn't that powerful that I think it warrants a fifth town PR. (I could see town lynching the Motion Detector on role claim actually, so that's something to consider....)

Just my opinion but ultimately, it's Yoshi's call.

BigYoshiFan · Post Post #20 (ISO) » Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:13 pm

Actually I think I'm gonna take it out. I agree with Ircher that mafia isn't that strong for it to warrant a 5th PR, one that could further enhance the town PR's in whatever way it could.
So... I think we've reached a consensus. Do I need to post the opening posts and roles again for this change?

BigYoshiFan · Post Post #21 (ISO) » Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:15 pm

Also, quick question, when the mafia modified ascetic is lynched I have to show everyone their PR, correct? (because it is a non-normal role)

mhsmith0 · Post Post #22 (ISO) » Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:43 pm

How do you want to flip? Just say modified ascetic? Full role pm? If the latter, the encryptor related stuff needs to be redacted.

BigYoshiFan · Post Post #23 (ISO) » Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:56 pm

Yeah, I think I should give the full role PM if the modified ascetic flips. I don't think I can just leave as "modified" and not explain how.
I'm gonna leave a HUGE note to remove anything mentioning an encryptor if the role PM is revealed.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #24 (ISO) » Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:11 pm

Just say that you can commincaue each night for the non encryptor, and then have the day chat be encryptor specific
See http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p8303744