mhsmith0's Mini Normal Review

[Nexus]

Proposed format

Town
6 VTs
Jailkeeper
Roleblocker
Fruit Vendor
1-shot BP

Scum
Goon
Goon
Traitor Tracker

Daytalk on, mafia can't take a night action and kill simultaneously

Subject: Normal Queue Thread (Players and Mods)

Mini Normal 1843 ended in a

Spoiler:

MAFIA

victory!

/in to mod a mini normal

[Firebringer]

This seems balanced enough as is.
Tracker can basically be used to out the town power roles, and if its lost not a huge deal.

Role blocker and Jailkeeper both can cancel each other out.
Kind of wondering what reason to have Fruit Vendor other than it will confirm they aren't doing the night kills.

[mastina]

We'll need the setup's roles, exact interactions (though JK/RB isn't too hard to guess, we need explicit word from you, especially on the more hazy BP/JK interaction), and opening post before passing it, but yeah I'm pretty sure this is a game that needs no revision role/power wise. It seems balanced as-is, and all the roles are normal.

[borkjerfkin]

Jailkeeper
Roleblocker

which one of these arbitrarily wins in a A roleblocker visits B jailkeeper visits A roleblocker loop?

[borkjerfkin]

mafia can't take a night action and kill simultaneously

ever or just when there are two+ scum alive?

[borkjerfkin]

i'm on the fence on whether or not this might be townsided. I don't see a good way for scum to pick off PRs because traitor can't tell his teammates anything and there are a ton of ways to block a kill, but ultimately town has no investigative power until late game.

it's about as swingy as swing can get. town picks off 1 scum + traitor early and it's pretty much auto win

[borkjerfkin]

i guess this is tempered by roleblocker and jk having negative setup spec interactions

[borkjerfkin]

it's probably within normal levels of balance. this is the type of game where i could see scum complaining though

[borkjerfkin]

I do like the elegance of railroading scum into blending into the visiting roles and being like "yeah scum can't kill and visit in the same night, you get to use this to your advantage"

kind of swings in a 1 traitor left situation too since scum can't kill at all at that point. dunno. maybe it's fine.

[borkjerfkin]

i don't wanna give like a 1x strongman or anything, that completely tips the game the other way and you'd have to give town more power

[mhsmith0]

Traitor Endgamed if two goons die. I kinda look at this as a game where there are easy setup spec traps to fall into: scummteam shooting traitor on spec, and/or town power just destroying each other due to the same.

I'm also open to dumping the bp or fruit vendor for balance.

And yah with two groupscum and two blocking roles it's SUPER swingy on an early scum lynch, although the counter is town won't actually know that for sure.

[mhsmith0]

Also I intend to follow NAR, so rb>jk, but jk can block an rb who targets elsewhere. Bp passive so can't be b,comedy, and being jailed would block the kill before the bp takes effect.

[borkjerfkin]

i didn't think NAR specifically dealt with how to resolve RB + JK

[borkjerfkin]

Sadly, though, this list tends not to help in the majority of conflicting actions; the most common cases of conflicts, e.g. Roleblocker versus Jailkeeper, appear in the same location on the list.

[borkjerfkin]

oh lol there is a separate NAR page for normal games

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... ormal_Game

not sure why this is split off

[borkjerfkin]

Traitor Endgamed if two goons die. I kinda look at this as a game where there are easy setup spec traps to fall into: scummteam shooting traitor on spec, and/or town power just destroying each other due to the same.

ah, right.

i don't really like the traitor tracker. i don't think it helps their team enough.

traitor rolecop? bulletproof traito tracker? remove traitor and make mafia tracker? scum need something small imo (i think the possibility of scum fucking themselves with an NK on traitor in this setup in particular is particularly cruel)

[mhsmith0]

i think the possibility of scum fucking themselves with an NK on traitor in this setup in particular is particularly cruel

but yeah, that's probably a fair point. Functionally, the traitor tracker would be something that can out PRs and subtly signal to the scum team, or even just outright lie to get town lynched, but it's probably overly swingy and subject to issues.

What say you about a scum role cop, getting
Mafia Goon
Mafia Role Cop
Mafia Traitor

setup? Role cop then gets a nice "guilty" potential on the town roleblocker and/or jailkeeper, since it would at least LOOK like potentially scum power roles.

[borkjerfkin]

Functionally, the traitor tracker would be something that can out PRs and subtly signal to the scum team

i think this would be really cool in a large.

[borkjerfkin]

What say you about a scum role cop, getting
Mafia Goon
Mafia Role Cop
Mafia Traitor

i like a little better, yeah.

[mastina]

I think rolecop is too strong.
Neapolitan would be better.

I mean, I suppose to some extent it gives scum a safeclaim (rolecop is more of a scumclaim whereas neapolitan is not), but it's not as definitive in telling the scum what roles are what.

[mhsmith0]

Hmm, ok, I can do neapolitan.

Do you guys have a strong opinion on whether scum can act and kill? I'm leaning towards that being ok, but obviously that's a key balance consideration in this setup given a 2-man scum team plus traitor.

[borkjerfkin]

what does scum really have going for it that rolecop is too strong

[borkjerfkin]

Do you guys have a strong opinion on whether scum can act and kill? I'm leaning towards that being ok, but obviously that's a key balance consideration in this setup given a 2-man scum team plus traitor.

i am very pro scum can kill + action

incidentally i don't often use trackers

[mastina]

If scum can kill and action, the power of the fruit vendor for town goes down the drain.
Given that, I wouldn't recommend a scum role at all if you allow both a kill and action.

[Firebringer]

I don't think scum need another PR tbh.
Role cop seems over kill.