Umlaut's Micro Normal


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Post Post #25 (ISO) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:25 am

Post by mykonian »

I think the first is more to my liking, and closer to what we've talked about so far. I'd be fine with that.
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Post Post #26 (ISO) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:30 am

Post by callforjudgement »

The last setup there is within acceptable swing ranges (albeit still a bit swingy), but I think it's scumsided. (Town has one usable Watcher shot, and one usable Jailkeeper shot. I'd put that a little below the amount of power I'd expect town to have in a Micro, especially if the Ninja decides to use their ability D1; mathematically they should in an unknown setup but I don't expect most players to realise that.) I don't think setup spec saves town either (especially if the Goon claims late in a massclaim and has the presence of mind to claim Tracker, but probably even if that doesn't happen).

The first setup is really clever; limiting the Jailkeeper to two shots means that the night action timing works out almost perfectly to reduce the chance of a blowout (although it can't entirely eliminate it). I think it might be townsided, though it's an unusual enough setup that I don't have much to compare it to.
scum
· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·
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Post Post #27 (ISO) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:27 pm

Post by Firebringer »

In post 26, callforjudgement wrote:The last setup there is within acceptable swing ranges (albeit still a bit swingy), but I think it's scumsided. (Town has one usable Watcher shot, and one usable Jailkeeper shot. I'd put that a little below the amount of power I'd expect town to have in a Micro, especially if the Ninja decides to use their ability D1; mathematically they should in an unknown setup but I don't expect most players to realise that.) I don't think setup spec saves town either (especially if the Goon claims late in a massclaim and has the presence of mind to claim Tracker, but probably even if that doesn't happen).
It wasn't meant to be "1 shot Watcher" just Watcher with no limitations.
Since the ninja can escape one possible guilty, thought having just 1 shot Jailkeeper was enough against the Ninja who escapes a possible guilty.
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his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
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Post Post #28 (ISO) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:47 pm

Post by Firebringer »

In post 23, Firebringer wrote:2 Shot Watcher
1 shot Jailkeeper
5 VTs
1 shot Ninja
1 Goon
This is also probably good.
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"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #29 (ISO) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:11 pm

Post by Umlaut »

In post 23, Firebringer wrote:Watcher
2 shot Jailkeeper
5 VTs
1 shot Strongman Goon
1 Goon
Wait, is this saying two 1-shot jailkeepers, or one 2-shot jailkeeper?

Either way, I'll take it. I mean, it's pretty far from the intent of my original setup ("the scum have to decide which powerful ability to counter each night"), but it seems like there's no way to make that work without giving scum too much power, so I'm willing to just do something else for now and go back to the drawing board with that idea.

If it's slightly townsided as mykonian suggested, would turning the goon into a backup strongman be an improvement?
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Post Post #30 (ISO) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:12 pm

Post by Umlaut »

Derp, or I could just count the slots. Of course it's one 2-shot jailkeeper.
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Post Post #31 (ISO) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:16 pm

Post by Firebringer »

In post 29, Umlaut wrote:
In post 23, Firebringer wrote:Watcher
2 shot Jailkeeper
5 VTs
1 shot Strongman Goon
1 Goon
Wait, is this saying two 1-shot jailkeepers, or one 2-shot jailkeeper?

Either way, I'll take it. I mean, it's pretty far from the intent of my original setup ("the scum have to decide which powerful ability to counter each night"), but it seems like there's no way to make that work without giving scum too much power, so I'm willing to just do something else for now and go back to the drawing board with that idea.

If it's slightly townsided as mykonian suggested, would turning the goon into a backup strongman be an improvement?
Its 2 shot Jailkeeper
And I think we could do Back up strongman.
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"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #32 (ISO) » Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:22 am

Post by mykonian »

In post 29, Umlaut wrote:If it's slightly townsided as mykonian suggested
It'd be between 50 and 55%, well within reasonable bounds.

I'd be quite happy with that setup. Should we go on to role PM's and get this show on the road?
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Post Post #33 (ISO) » Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:03 pm

Post by Umlaut »

I'll have the revised role PMS up ASAP (which is probably in a few hours).
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Post Post #34 (ISO) » Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:10 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

In post 27, Firebringer wrote:It wasn't meant to be "1 shot Watcher" just Watcher with no limitations.
Since the ninja can escape one possible guilty, thought having just 1 shot Jailkeeper was enough against the Ninja who escapes a possible guilty.
There are multiple shots, but only one is usable; one of the N1 or N2 shots will work to full effect, but the other one will be blocked by the Ninja, and any N3 shot has the issue that it comes so late in the game that scum can just 1v1 you if you get a guilty (if you're even alive at that point), and you'll probably just be NKed anyway.

Post 29 setup is good, I think. Town should realise that they have so much power that there must be a scum power role specifically to counter them. I'd prefer it without the Backup Strongman, just because that raises the issue of town thinking "oh, the Strongman is dead, I doubt scum have another". I agree that it's on the townsided side, but that mostly comes from skew rather than a natural imbalance (there are scenarios where town runs away with the game very early, and if that doesn't happen the game is balanced).

If the townsidedness is concerning, it might be worth giving scum a Backup Watcher, basically as a hint that there's a Watcher in the game (the role isn't that useful in this setup because its information comes too late to be useful). That should reduce the chance that, after one scum being caught early, the other one makes an obvious kill and gets caught by the Watcher. Alternatively, if you want to adjust the balance rather than the skew, making one of the VTs Ascetic would give scum a "safe" but unaimed kill (if the Ascetic claimed; they often do), because the JK wouldn't be able to save them and the Watcher wouldn't be able to watch them; it wouldn't have much of an influence in most cases but would crank down the townsidedness slightly. That said, I think the setup is already reasonable as is.
scum
· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·
town
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Post Post #35 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:21 am

Post by Firebringer »

I approve either of those setups I mentioned.
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"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #36 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:07 am

Post by Umlaut »

Revised setup:
1x
Mafia 1-Shot Strongman

1x
Mafia Goon

1x
Town Watcher

1x
Town 2-Shot Jailkeeper

5x
Vanilla Townie


Role PMS:
Spoiler: Mafia 1-Shot Strongman
You are a
Mafia 1-Shot Strongman
!

Image
Your partner is #NAME, a
Mafia Goon
.


Win Condition

You win when half or more of living players are Mafia.

Abilities
  • You and your partner share a private thread in which you can talk and strategize during the pregame and night phases.
  • Every night, either you or your partner may carry out a kill on one player.
  • During one night of your choice, if you are carrying out a kill, you may choose to
    strongman
    the kill, in which case it cannot be stopped by blocking or protective effects.

Spoiler: Mafia Goon
You are a
Mafia Goon
!

Image
Your partner is #NAME, a
Mafia 1-Shot Strongman
.


Win Condition

You win when half or more of living players are Mafia.

Abilities
  • You and your partner share a private thread in which you can talk and strategize during the pregame and night phases.
  • Every night, either you or your partner may carry out a kill on one player.

Spoiler: Watcher
You are a
Town Watcher
!

Image

Win Condition

You win when all living players are Town.

Abilities
  • Every night you may choose one player to
    watch,
    thus discovering who if anyone targeted that player during the night.

Spoiler: 1-Shot Jailkeeper
You are a
Town 1-Shot Jailkeeper
!

Image

Win Condition

You win when all living players are Town.

Abilities
  • During one night of your choice, you may choose a player to
    jail
    . That player cannot target or be targeted by anyone during that night.

Spoiler: Vanilla Townie
You are a
Vanilla Townie
!

Image

Win Condition

You win when all living players are Town.

Abilities

You have no special abilities. Your weapons are your voice and your vote.


One question about interactions: my understanding is that if a player is prevented from targeting someone, the watcher will not see his target visited by that player, but it's probably worth confirming that here before I proceed.
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Post Post #37 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:24 am

Post by callforjudgement »

The rules aren't completely clear on how a Watcher + Jailkeeper interaction works, but I believe that interaction is the correct one for Normals (a roleblocked/jailkept action never happens, so Trackers and Watchers can't see it). I'd also like to remind you that if the Jailkeeper targets the Watcher, the Watcher will become aware that their night action failed (rather than being told they saw nothing).

I'm assuming the words "a private thread" in the scum role PMs will be an actual link to the PT when you send them.
The biggest mistake in the role PMs is that you've given the 2-shot JK a 1-shot Alien PM. You probably need to fix both those mistakes. (A Normal Jailkeeper protects a player from being
killed
, not from being targeted.)

Other than the things I've mentioned above, the role PMs look good, and I'd be willing to approve the setup when these issues are fixed.
scum
· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·
town
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Post Post #38 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:20 pm

Post by Umlaut »

Oh, sorry.
Spoiler: 2-Shot Jailkeeper (this time not totally wrong)
You are a
Town 2-Shot Jailkeeper
!

Image

Win Condition

You win when all living players are Town.

Abilities
  • During two nights of your choice, you may choose a player to
    jail
    . That player will be unable to target anyone and will be protected from kills for that night.
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Post Post #39 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:52 pm

Post by Firebringer »

Approved with Fire
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"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #40 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:43 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

/approve
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· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·
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Post Post #41 (ISO) » Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:35 pm

Post by mykonian »

/happy!

Good luck Umlaut!
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Post Post #42 (ISO) » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:15 pm

Post by Nexus »

have let radja know. good luck.
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Post Post #43 (ISO) » Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:06 pm

Post by Umlaut »

For completeness' sake, here is the actual role distribution (determined by random.org):
  • ThinkBig,
    Vanilla Townie

  • Lil Uzi Vert,
    Town 2-Shot Jailkeeper

  • Sobolev Space,
    Vanilla Townie

  • Maxous,
    Mafia Goon

  • temphdq,
    Mafia 1-Shot Strongman

  • Tenshii,
    Town Watcher

  • Hiraki,
    Vanilla Townie

  • schadd_,
    Vanilla Townie

  • Aj The Epic,
    Vanilla Townie
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Post Post #44 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:30 pm

Post by Umlaut »

[redacted]
Last edited by Nexus on Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #45 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:31 pm

Post by Umlaut »

Wait no, someone delete that post before this thread goes public and contact me by PM if you want to comment on that.
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
and the other kind,
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don’t
say. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs
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