Shaziro's Mini Normal Review


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Shaziro's Mini Normal Review

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:13 pm

Post by Nexus »

Scum 1-shot Strongman
Scum Roleblocker
Scum Traitor
Town Neighbor Cop
Town 2-shot Doctor
Town Neighbor x2
Vanilla Town x6








You are a Vanilla Townie.

Your powers include your voice and your vote! Use them well.

You win the game when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

Confirm your role by replying to me with your Role and Alignment.

Good luck!







You are a Town 2-shot Doctor.

Your powers include your voice and your vote! Use them well.

You can also choose one player at night to protect from killing actions. You may do this twice.

You win the game when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

Confirm your role by replying to me with your Role and Alignment.

Good luck!






You are a Town Neighbor

Your powers include your voice and your vote! Use them well.

You are also a member of a Neighborhood with X and Y, which you can find here: (LINK)

You win the game when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

Confirm your role by replying to me with your Role and Alignment.

Good luck!







You are a Town Neighbor/Cop.

Your powers include your voice and your vote! Use them well.

You are also a member of a Neighborhood with X and Y, which you can find here: (LINK)

You are able to choose one player each night to discern their alignment.

You win the game when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

Confirm your role by replying to me with your Role and Alignment.

Good luck!













You are a Scum Traitor

You are a member of the Scum Faction, along with X and Y. They do not know who you are, but they are aware that there is a Scum Traitor in this game.

Your powers include your voice and your vote! Use them well.

You win the game when the Mafia control 50% of the vote

Confirm your role by replying to me with your Role and Alignment.

Good luck!










You are a Scum 1-Shot Strongman

You are a member of the Scum Faction, along with X and a Scum Traitor whose identity is unknown to you.

Your powers include your voice, your vote, and your factional night kill! Use them well.

You also have the single-use ability to perform the factional night kill as a strongman, making it unblockable by any means.

You win the game when the Mafia control 50% of the vote

Confirm your role by replying to me with your Role and Alignment.

Good luck!













You are a Scum Goon

You are a member of the Scum Faction, along with X and a Scum Traitor whose identity is unknown to you.

Your powers include your voice, your vote, and your factional night kill! Use them well.

You win the game when the Mafia control 50% of the vote

Confirm your role by replying to me with your Role and Alignment.

Good luck!





If Cop’s target is guilty: You receive a Guilty result


If Cop’s target is innocent: You Receive an Innocent result





























Shaziro Does a Mafia Game


Player List:

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Everyone!


Dead:

Nobody!


General Rules


1. All normal site rules apply.
2. You may not talk about this game outside of this thread or any Private Threads created for this game.
3. Please remain civil with each other. Things can get heated or intense, but there are several things that will NOT be tolerated. Absolutely no offensive comments or slurs based on race, gender, religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc. I WILL force replace you.
4. This is my color. There are many like it, but this one is mine. Do not use this color or any color too close to it.
5. Do not quote or pretend to quote any role PM, anything from a private thread, or mod communication. You can loosely paraphrase, but please use common sense.
6. Pretending to break a rule can result in the same action being taken as actually breaking the rule.
7. Do not try to manipulate or trick the mod.
8. Any minor/simple questions or pointing out errors in vote counts can be pointed out in thread by leading with a bolded
@MOD
at the start of a line.
9. Any more sensitive questions can be PM'd to me. Don't hesitate to ask if you have a question, you will not bother me.
10. If your spot in the game has been compromised due to outside information, please PM me immediately without making any more posts. I will be eternally grateful for your honesty.
11. I am not perfect. If you notice anything that is incorrect, let me know.

Voting


1. Voting must be made using the vote tags VOTE: Shaziro or using bold. I greatly prefer the vote tags though.
2. Any other variation will not be counted. I will let you know in thread once (if I notice it), but only once.
3. Misspellings, acronyms, and abbreviations will be valid as long as it is clear who you are voting for. If I perceive it as a vote, it is a vote.
4. Any votes within spoiler tags or otherwise concealed will not be counted.
5. A lynch will occur when 50%+1 of the votes are cast for the same player; a No Lynch will occur when 50% of the votes are cast for that option or when there is not 50%+1 majority by deadline. When this has happened, any subsequent votes and unvotes will not be counted, and the game will enter twilight.
6. You may continue talking after a lynch or deadline has elapsed until the mod posts to end the day. After that, you may not post even if the mod forgets to lock the thread.
7. I will try to provide vote counts on a regular basis, with exception to the times when I am at class (which varies but is typically done before 4pm EST). You may request a new vote count at any time, and I will post it at my earliest convenience.

Activity/Day Night


1. Days will last two weeks. Deadline extensions will be granted only for the case of replacements, holidays, or other extreme circumstances.
2. Night phases will last for 2 days (48 hours)
3. Replacement during night phase will extend the deadline to 24 hours past the point of the replacement, whether that slot has a night action or not.
4. Actions must be PM'd to me or bolded in the Scum PT for it to be accepted. If no action is selected, they will not perform an action.
5. If mafia have powers other than their factional night kill, they may perform their power and the kill at the same time.
6. Prods will be sent out after 48 hours of inactivity. These will be announced in thread. At player request (if reasonable), I can "Poke" another player. This will not count as a prod.
7. If a player does not respond IN THREAD within 24 hours or receives 3 prods, they will be replaced out. If they return before a replacement is found, they may keep playing. The next time they are prodded, however, they will be replaced and can not return.
8. If you will be unable to be active in thread for over 48 hours, please make a V/LA post in bold. As long as the time is reasonable, you will be exempt from prods.
9. Once you are dead, you may no longer post in thread. No "bah" posts.

Mafia Team has Daytalk enabled in this game.

If you have any questions over your role or any of the rules in the game, feel free to PM me, you won't bother me!
Last edited by Nexus on Sun Jun 04, 2017 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:31 pm

Post by Firebringer »

Initial first glance is I am thinking this is scum sided
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"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:35 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Very much agreed. Neighbor isn't an actual PR, which means that it's two town PRs (one gated) against a Roleblocker, a strongman and a traitor. Town would have to make FULL use of the PT, AND avoid scum killing/blocking cop, to have a realistic chance.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:37 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Rule of thumb: town always needs at least three at least slightly useful/claimable power roles in a 10v3. Traitor MAYBE lessens the burden a bit, but I'd be super hesitant to allow a 2 pr setup against traitor goon goon, and def. not against traitor Roleblocker strongman.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:38 pm

Post by Firebringer »

Ohh wait, I misunderstood the "Neighbor Cop" I thought that was a Cop who could only check if someone was in PTs or not.
Okay, that changes it to town sided.

It would probably be better if you limit Cop to only checking the neighbors to make it like a "Mason hood"
That could be your grey list role.

Problem is that there is a "Follow the Cop" issue even with the role blocker for scum team.
I would really still limit scum power here. A strongman and role blocker isn't necessary.
Either or, but both don't seem needed.

I guess the power is to justify a Cop and a Doctor being in same game, but still makes it very "Swingy" and unbalanced.
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"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:39 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Scumsided. Cop and 2-shot doc not near enough town power given setup, and neighbors are very low utility.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:39 pm

Post by Firebringer »

I am actually not sure if this initial setup is town sided or scum sided. But considering scum usually always have more info, it probably still is scum sided since theres two ways to stop the Doctor or Cop (Strongman or Roleblocker)
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"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:40 pm

Post by Firebringer »

In post 5, mhsmith0 wrote:Scumsided. Cop and 2-shot doc not near enough town power given setup, and neighbors are very low utility.
Yeah, thats the problem with putting in a cop and doc into a setup. you have to give scum pretty powerful guns in order to "deal" with it.
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"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:40 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Like, neighbor claim would NEVER save someone from a lynch, while cop, doc, Roleblocker, tracker, bulletproof. Etc etc all might. The setup as envisioned seems to presume cop will share results in the hood, but that requires a super high level of trust to work early game, and even with that scum has two pr abilities that can wreck the cop.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:45 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

From another review thread (game completed now)
In post 11, mhsmith0 wrote:FWIW, 10v3 mini normal games with roleblockers have as a whole been pretty balanced, around 50% town win rate

Spoiler:
1794 town win
doc, gunslinger, cop
vs rb, encryptor, goon

1772 town win
doc, roleblocker, macho tracker
vs rb, goon, goon

1719 scum win
1-shot BP, mason, mason, doc
vs rb, goon, goon (very different game here, town power was mainly passive)

1715 town win
doc, cop, role cop, jailkeeper
vs rb, godfather, goon

1709 scum win
1-shot gunsmith, JOAT, role cop, doctor
vs rb, watcher, goon

1666 scum win
tracker, 1-shot BP, cop, 1-shot vig neighbor, vanilla neighbor
vs rb, godfather, neighbor

1662 town win
tracker, vig, doc
vs rb, goon, goon

1653 scum win
doc, cop, 1-shot vig
vs rb, goon, goon

1596 scum win
miller, doc, cop
vs rb, goon, goon

1527 town win
bodyguard, cop, 2-shot vig
vs rb, goon, goon

1514 town win
even night vig, cowardly gunsmith, cop, odd night vig
vs rb, godfather, goon

etc

In general, against a roleblocker, town has had at least one really strong power role, or multiple passives (like 1719). The JOAT isn't strong enough, and tracker is a middling town power in a 13p game.
A cop with a gated doc is not as powerful as you might think; cop can be hit early, doc can blow shots early, etc.

Could MAYBE see my way to something like
Cop neighbor
One shot bp neighbor
Neighbor
Doctor (ungated)
6 vts

Vs
Roleblocker
One shot strongman
Traitor

Would still suspect this to be scumsided, but that I'd at least think about
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:59 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Incidentally, I'll try and look up common mini normal traitor setups so there's a decent comparison basis on that end too.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:39 am

Post by Empking »

I think it might be balanced. However, better to avoid controversy.

'A lynch will occur when 50%+1 of the votes are cast for the same player' is inaccurate.

I think that the traitor mechanics should be explict in the PMs (e.g. what happens when Traitor is scum tareted)
Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:54 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

Spoiler: Traitor games
1814 scum win
non-consecutive jk, JOAT (voyeur, bodyguard, neapolitan), weak doctor, 2-shot commuter
vs
traitor encryptor, goon, goon

1791 (ran as open, excluded from analysis)

1762 town win
3-shot jk, gunsmith, 1-shot vig
vs
traitor, goon, goon

1740 town win
neapolitan, neighborizer, roleblocker, nurse
vs triator, jailkeeper, goon

1585 scum win
tracker, jailkeeper, bodyguard
vs traitor, goon, strongman

1543 scum win
doctor, even night compulsive vig, neighbor, neighbor, neighbor
vs
traitor, JOAT, nurse

1486 town win
1-shot cop, cultwatch admin (idk what this meant), even night jk, IC
vs
traitor, goon, role cop

1483 town win
tracker, 1-shot vig, gunsmith
vs
1-shot ninja, goon, traitor

1402 scum win
bodyguard, tracker, JOAT
vs
traitor role cop, goon, encryptor

1401 town win
odd night vig, 2x masons, JOAT
vs
traitor, 1-shot BP, goon


Overall results have been around balanced, but in general town has had MUCH more power than we see here and/or scum had MUCH less power. neighbor isn't an actual power, so it's essentially
cop, 2-shot doc
vs
roleblocker, 1-shot strongman, traitor

that's never a balanced setup (or honestly even particularly close) by mini normal standards. conceptually, 1762 is kind of close to this, if you completely remove scum power (and turning doc into jailkeeper, which strengthens the role while removing some of the cop/doc coordination issues, is I think a fine approach, though you'd still need a 3rd PR, even if it was something small). There are also ways you can balance it by adding substantially more town power in lieu of docking scum power, but it really depends on how you want the game to be. But as proposed, it's simply not acceptable balance-wise.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:55 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

I do agree that it's appropriate to spell out traitor in more detail. If it's helpful, here's what I sent to a traitor in the large normal I ran recently (game now over)
mhsmith0 wrote:
Welcome to Large Normal 200! You are a treacherous
Blue Mafia One-Shot Bulletproof Traitor
!

Abilities

You have your voice and your vote. Use them well to confuse town and distort truth.

You may NOT communicate with your
{REDACTED}
at any time. Your identity is unknown by your
{REDACTED}
. I have created a private topic here for your personal use. You may use this topic at any time, day or night.

In addition, you have a 1-shot bulletproof vest. Due to this ability, the first time you are shot, you will survive the attempt. You will not be informed when this happens.

As a traitor, you cannot be directly recruited by any means, and if you are the last surviving member of your team, you will be automatically endgamed.

Win Condition:
You win when all other factions have been eliminated or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Here is the game thread. Please confirm via PM with your role name and alignment
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http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:21 am

Post by Shaziro »

Classes all day so I'm mobileposting for the most part, when I get to a computer for more than 15 minutes I'll make some changes.
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:06 pm

Post by Shaziro »

Okay, so for the Traitor role pm, does

You are a Scum Traitor

You are a member of the Scum Faction, along with X and Y. They do not know who you are, but they are aware that there is a Scum Traitor in this game.

If your faction members target you for a nightkill, you -will- die. You cannot privately communicate with them in any way. You cannot be directly recruited by any means, and if you are the last remaining member of your team you will be endgamed.

Your powers include your voice and your vote! Use them well.

You win the game when the Mafia control 50% of the vote

Confirm your role by replying to me with your Role and Alignment.

Good luck!
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:07 pm

Post by Shaziro »

Secondly, would removing the 2-shot modifier on the doctor make it sufficiently less scumsided?
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:12 pm

Post by Firebringer »

In post 16, Shaziro wrote:Secondly, would removing the 2-shot modifier on the doctor make it sufficiently less scumsided?
Yes, since Doctor cannot be blocked for all their shots or waste shots anymore. Would definitely improve the Doctor+Cop combo, and kind of allow you to keep scum power as is.
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"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:13 pm

Post by Firebringer »

In post 15, Shaziro wrote:You are a Scum Traitor

You are a member of the Scum Faction, along with X and Y. They do not know who you are, but they are aware that there is a Scum Traitor in this game.

If your faction members target you for a nightkill, you -will- die. You cannot privately communicate with them in any way. You cannot be directly recruited by any means, and if you are the last remaining member of your team you will be endgamed.

Your powers include your voice and your vote! Use them well.

You win the game when the Mafia control 50% of the vote

Confirm your role by replying to me with your Role and Alignment.

Good luck!
This is good.
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"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:32 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Cop
Doc

Vs
Roleblocker
1-shot strongman
Traitor

It's getting closer, but I don't see why scum need the strongman if they already are the Roleblocker, and town needs an additional power role even if it's something crap like fruit vendor or bodyguard.

I'd be closer to ok with
Town
Cop
Doc
Fruit vendor or bodyguard
However you want to do neighbors

Scum
Roleblocker
Goon
Traitor

(I still want to mull over how much traitor swings it, it's possible I'm underestimating the issues w a traitor here)

Roleblocker is super strong, as is the cop and doc combo, which means that the game will almost inevitably be really swingy.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #20 (ISO) » Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:36 pm

Post by Shaziro »

The strongman was largely an attempt to negate the swingyness.
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Post Post #21 (ISO) » Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:38 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

You could also nerf the cop to something like odd night, make it full doc, add in something kinda ok like maybe a even night tracker or the like, and turn scum into one shot each of Roleblocker and strongman, which reduces the power of any individual role and therefore reduces swing.
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Post Post #22 (ISO) » Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:40 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

As proposed, you could see a full Roleblocker flip, cop thinking now it's super ok to out because there must be protection, then surprise there's a strongtman too, which I think is juts generally unusual setup wise.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #23 (ISO) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:45 am

Post by Firebringer »

In post 19, mhsmith0 wrote:Town
Cop
Doc
Fruit vendor or bodyguard
However you want to do neighbors

Scum
Roleblocker
Goon
Traitor
I think this is going too far in other way? I mean, if the Roleblocker at all gets lynched early, scum are really screwed on a full Cop and Doc game.

I guess you could do something like a Even Night and a Odd Night role blocker for scum team, so that makes that problem less of a issue.
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I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #24 (ISO) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:09 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

Breaking up the rb into odd and even would be fine by me if that's something Shaziro is ok with.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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