Fro99er's Large Normal Review

[Nexus]

Setup and opening posts. Semi-open. The distribution of town/scum/possible third party is not known to the player list.

Role PMs coming in a separate post.

Also, backup mod is BigYoshiFan


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Fro99er setup and opening posts
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:55 pm
From: Fro99er
To: Fro99er

Current proposed full setup:

Semi-open setup. There will be three pools of roles to choose from for the semi-open part that makes up three of the 17 total roles, and then 14 other roles that won't be publicly known. There are two conditions that will be met:

1. Exactly one role will be chosen at random from each of the three pools
2. Exactly one mafia and two town roles must be chosen in total from the three pools

If a random dice roll does not meet these two requirements, there will be a re-roll as many times as necessary until the two conditions are met.

The semi-open pools are as follows:

Pool 1:

Mafia Ninja
Town Bodyguard, 1-shot bulletproof
Town Doctor

Pool 2:

Mafia Rolecop
Town Tracker
Town Gunsmith

Pool 3:

Mafia Roleblocker
Town Universal Backup

The other 14 roles are as follows:

Town:

Vanilla Cop
Motion Detector
2-shot Vigilante
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT

Mafia:

Universal Backup
Doctor
Goon


1.

Opening posts:

Post 0:

Complete Playerlist

1. Player 1
   
   
2. Player 2
   
   
3. Player 3
   
   
4. Player 4
   
   
5. Player 5
   
   
6. Player 6
   
   
7. Player 7
   
   
8. Player 8
   
   
9. Player 9
   
   
10. Player 10
    
    
11. Player 11
    
    
12. Player 12
    
    
13. Player 13
    
    
14. Player 14
    
    
15. Player 15
    
    
16. Player 16
    
    
17. Player 17
    
    
    
    +
    = prodded

Alive

Spoiler: 17

1. Player 1
   
   
2. Player 2
   
   
3. Player 3
   
   
4. Player 4
   
   
5. Player 5
   
   
6. Player 6
   
   
7. Player 7
   
   
8. Player 8
   
   
9. Player 9
   
   
10. Player 10
    
    
11. Player 11
    
    
12. Player 12
    
    
13. Player 13
    
    
14. Player 14
    
    
15. Player 15
    
    
16. Player 16
    
    
17. Player 17

Dead

Spoiler: 0

1. Nobody

Votecounts

Spoiler:

Post 1:

RULES

(taken from

GuyInFreezer

and modified for this game)

General Rules:

1. This game was reviewed for normalcy and balance by [names].
   
   
2. Site-wide rules always apply here.
   
3. If you have a question for me, you can always PM me. If you need to talk to me in thread,
   please bold your question like this so I can see it
   
   
4. You may not use hidden or encrypted text. I decide if the text is small enough to be count as hidden text.
   
5. If you have a power to edit/delete your post, don't do it. If you scumslip, just accept it and eat rope.*
   
6. Play nice. Insulting players with using any form of racial/sexual slur or any kind of derogatory languages or excessive harassing in any way will result in immediate force-replacement.*
   
7. There will be strict adherence to the site policy about prohibiting discussion of ongoing games, which can be found here*
   
8. This means do not discuss other ongoing games in this thread AND do not discuss this game elsewhere.
   
9. Do not quote the PM that moderator sends you. Paraphrasing is fine until a certain level.
   If you're not sure about it, you're always welcome to ask me first before you post.
   *
   
10. Do not use provable randomization in this game. Saying that you rolled a dice is fine, using dice tag is not.
    
11. This is my color (Blue). Don't use it or colors closely resembling it.
    
    
12. If I find the certain factors/actions damaging the state of the game, I will intervene and/or take action.
    
13. Keep the personal complaint, whatever they may be, outside of the wrong VC/information, private by PMing me.
    
14. If you break these rules, I have full rights to punish you at my will. This can range from simple warning to modkill/force-replace.
    
15. I will always consult a list-mod before performing any modkill.
    
16. VIOLATING THE RULES WITH A STAR (*) WILL CAUSE AN IMMEDIATE FORCE-REPLACE NO MATTER THE CIRCUMSTANCES!
    
    
17. If I feel like it, I always have a full right to add/modify the rules. If I do, I will fully explain the reason behind such action.
    
18. Most importantly, have fun!

Voting and Lynching:

1. You vote by either using bold tag([
   b]Vote: Fro99er[/b
   ]) or using vote tag ([
   vote]Fro99er[/vote
   ]) as such
   Vote: Fro99er
   or VOTE: Fro99er
   
2. Unvote is not required to change your vote. Also, if it looks like a vote for someone, I will count it. No tricking me!
   
3. A player is lynched when the majority votes the same player. Once the player is lynched, the lynchee and the living players may talk until I get back and post the flip.
   
4. If the deadline is reached before the lynch has reached, the day will end with
   No Lynch
   .
   
5. If you're nightkilled, you may post one information-less "bah" post.

Activity and Deadline:

1. Deadline for each day phase is:
   10 days
   .
   
2. If you're on V/LA, please tell me beforehand by either posting it in thread (bolded) or PM to me.
   Any V/LA that lasts longer than 120 hours (=5 RL days, =1/2 of a game day phase) will be a force replace.
   
3. If you don't post here for
   48 real hours
   , I will prod you. Failure to receive prod within
   24 hours
   will cause force-replacement.
   
4. Three prods overall will equate to a force replace.
   
5. If you do not submit an action before the night ends, it will count as
   No Action
   .
   
6. There will be
   deadline extensions
   given in this game only upon the moderators discretion.

Sample Role PM

• You are a
  Vanilla Townie
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  • You possess no special abilities other than your vote and your voice.
  Win condition:
  
  You are aligned with the
  Town
  and win when all threats to the
  Town
  have been eliminated and at least one
  Town
  -aligned player is alive.

Post 2:

Game Information:

1. This game is a semi-open setup with ONE

Town

faction and ONE groupscum

Mafia

faction. There may or may not be a

Serial Killer

2. The semi-open portion of the setup has the following rules:

• Three of the roles in the game will be chosen from the following three pools of roles listed below.
  
• There will be exactly ONE role chosen at random from each pool
  
• There will be exactly ONE
  Mafia
  and exactly TWO
  Town
  roles in total from the three pools
  
• If a random dice roll does not meet the prior two requirements, there will be a re-roll as many times as necessary until the two conditions are met.

3. The pools for the semi-open portion of the setup are as follows:

Pool 1:

Mafia Ninja

Town Bodyguard, 1-shot bulletproof

Town Doctor

Pool 2:

Mafia Rolecop

Town Tracker

Town Gunsmith

Pool 3:

Mafia Roleblocker

Town Universal Backup

4. There are also 14 other roles that won't be publicly known. Each of these will meet normal requirements.

[Nexus]

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Large Normal Role PMs
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:54 pm
From: Fro99er
To: Fro99er

Sample Role PM

• You are a
  Vanilla Townie
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  • You possess no special abilities other than your vote and your voice.
  Win condition:
  
  You are aligned with the
  Town
  and win when all threats to the
  Town
  have been eliminated and at least one
  Town
  -aligned player is alive.

---------------------------------

Sample Role PM

• You are a
  Town Gunsmith
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  • Every night phase you may PM the moderator to target a player to investigate. You will receive a Private Message from the moderator containing either
    Target has a gun
    or
    Target does NOT have a gun
    or
    No Result
    .
  Win condition:
  
  You are aligned with the
  Town
  and win when all threats to the
  Town
  have been eliminated and at least one
  Town
  -aligned player is alive.

---------------------------------

Sample Role PM

• You are a
  Town Doctor
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  • Every night phase you may PM the moderator to target a player to protect from one kill.
    
  • You will not be told whether your protection succeeded, and your target will not know they were targeted or protected.
  Win condition:
  
  You are aligned with the
  Town
  and win when all threats to the
  Town
  have been eliminated and at least one
  Town
  -aligned player is alive.

---------------------------------

Sample Role PM

• You are a
  Town Universal Backup
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  • If any
    Town
    -aligned power role dies, you inherit that player's role and ability(ies).
    
  • If any ability is X-shot, you only inherit the remaining number of shots. If zero shots are left, you still inherit the role, but with zero shots remaining.
  Win condition:
  
  You are aligned with the
  Town
  and win when all threats to the
  Town
  have been eliminated and at least one
  Town
  -aligned player is alive.

---------------------------------

Sample Role PM

• You are a
  Town 2-Shot Vigilante
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  • Once per night you may target a player to shoot. If the shot is successful, that player will be killed.
    
  • You may only use this ability twice per game.
  Win condition:
  
  You are aligned with the
  Town
  and win when all threats to the
  Town
  have been eliminated and at least one
  Town
  -aligned player is alive.

---------------------------------

Sample Role PM

• You are a
  Town Tracker
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  • Once per night you may target a player to track.
    
  • You will be told either
    your targeted visited [name(s)]
    ,
    your target did not go anywhere
    , or
    No Result
  Win condition:
  
  You are aligned with the
  Town
  and win when all threats to the
  Town
  have been eliminated and at least one
  Town
  -aligned player is alive.

---------------------------------

Sample Role PM

• You are a
  Town Vanilla Cop
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  • Once per night you may target a player to investigate.
    
  • You will be told either
    Your target is vanilla
    ,
    Your target is NOT vanilla
    , or
    No Result
  Win condition:
  
  You are aligned with the
  Town
  and win when all threats to the
  Town
  have been eliminated and at least one
  Town
  -aligned player is alive.

---------------------------------

Sample Role PM

• You are a
  Town Bodyguard, 1-shot Bulletproof
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  • Once per night you may target a player to protect. If that player is targeted for a kill, you will take the kill attempt in their place.
    
  • You are protected from the first kill attempt against either you or your target.
  Win condition:
  
  You are aligned with the
  Town
  and win when all threats to the
  Town
  have been eliminated and at least one
  Town
  -aligned player is alive.

---------------------------------

Sample Role PM

• You are a
  Town Motion Detector
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  • Once per night you may target a player.
    
  • You will be told either
    You saw motion
    ,
    You did NOT see any motion
    , or
    No Result
    .
  Win condition:
  
  You are aligned with the
  Town
  and win when all threats to the
  Town
  have been eliminated and at least one
  Town
  -aligned player is alive.

---------------------------------

Sample Role PM

• You are a
  Mafia Goon
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  • You share a Private Topic with your fellow
    Maifoso
    , [names, roles]. You share a PT with them located [link]
    
  • Once each night your team has a factional night kill, meaning one of you may target a player to perform a night-kill.
  Win condition:
  
  You are aligned with the
  Mafia
  and win when the
  Mafia
  controls at least 50% of the town.

---------------------------------

Sample Role PM

• You are a
  Mafia Rolecop
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  • You share a Private Topic with your fellow
    Maifoso
    , [names, roles]. You share a PT with them located [link]
    
  • Once per night you may target a player to investigate.
    
  • You will be told either your target's full Role Name or
    No Result
    .
    
  • Once each night your team has a factional night kill, meaning one of you may target a player to perform a night-kill.
  Win condition:
  
  You are aligned with the
  Mafia
  and win when the
  Mafia
  controls at least 50% of the town.

---------------------------------

Sample Role PM

• You are a
  Mafia Roleblocker
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  • You share a Private Topic with your fellow
    Maifoso
    , [names, roles]. You share a PT with them located [link]
    
  • You may target one player each night to block.
    
  • That player will not be able to use any Night Actions that night.
    
  • You will not be told if your Roleblock attempt succeeds.
    
  • Once each night your team has a factional night kill, meaning one of you may target a player to perform a night-kill.
  Win condition:
  
  You are aligned with the
  Mafia
  and win when the
  Mafia
  controls at least 50% of the town.

---------------------------------

Sample Role PM

• You are a
  Mafia Ninja
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  • You share a Private Topic with your fellow
    Maifoso
    , [names, roles]. You share a PT with them located [link]
    
  • Once each night your team has a factional night kill, meaning one of you may target a player to perform a night-kill.
    
  • If you are the player that performs this kill, you won't return a result to Trackers, Watchers, Voyeurs, Followers, or Motion Detectors.
  Win condition:
  
  You are aligned with the
  Mafia
  and win when the
  Mafia
  controls at least 50% of the town.

---------------------------------

Sample Role PM

• You are a
  Mafia Universal Backup
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  • You share a Private Topic with your fellow
    Maifoso
    , [names, roles]. You share a PT with them located [link]
    
  • If any
    Mafia
    -aligned power role dies, you inherit that player's role and ability(ies).
    
  • If any ability is X-shot, you only inherit the remaining number of shots. If zero shots are left, you still inherit the role, but with zero shots remaining.
    
  • Once each night your team has a factional night kill, meaning one of you may target a player to perform a night-kill.
  Win condition:
  
  You are aligned with the
  Mafia
  and win when the
  Mafia
  controls at least 50% of the town.

---------------------------------

Sample Role PM

• You are a
  Mafia Doctor
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  • You share a Private Topic with your fellow
    Maifoso
    , [names, roles]. You share a PT with them located [link]
    
  • Every night phase you may PM the moderator to target a player to protect from one kill.
    
  • You will not be told whether your protection succeeded, and your target will not know they were targeted or protected.
    
  • Once each night your team has a factional night kill, meaning one of you may target a player to perform a night-kill.
  Win condition:
  
  You are aligned with the
  Mafia
  and win when the
  Mafia
  controls at least 50% of the town.

[TellTaleHeart]

Hi Fro99er, glad to see you around again! ^_^

[TellTaleHeart]

My first instinct with this setup is that scum are getting way too much power. They are already guaranteed to have a doctor to directly counter the vig. The universal backup will soften the blow on losing a special. Out of the remaining possibilities, scum could potential pick up a specific counter to the tracker, a general counter with the roleblocker, or a full rolecop. The roleblocker would be particularly devastating to town's chances, but they would all add a considerable amount of power.

I think I see the logic to your groupings: the scum role in each group are supposed to counter potential town roles from the other groups. I would suggest gating the scum roles with either a specific night or limited shot modifier.

I would also suggest increasing the basal town power. As it stands, I don't even think the existing powers are enough against an all-vanilla scumteam.

[Fro99er]

Hey thanks!

If I change the scum doctor to a goon and add some town power we'll be closer.

I'm at the NASCAR race today but can figure this out tomorrow

[Empking]

I would definitely say scum need to be weakened. 4: 13 is pretty scum-favoured as it is. Groupings seem fairly equal in powern - that is blance is little affected by the dice rolls, assuming no broken complements.

Rules seem good. As do PMs. Aside for two issues: 1) Daytalk? 2) Can a Mafioso kill and act in the same night?

[Fro99er]

Mafia can kill and use ability

No daytalk

But daytalk only needs to be declared if it exists without an encryptor from what i remember.

[Fro99er]

I'll beef up town in the morning. Really appreciate the feedback!

[Empking]

Mafia can kill and use ability

That ought to be declared in the rule set.

No daytalk

But daytalk only needs to be declared if it exists without an encryptor from what i remember.

That may be right, but it's not clear in the scum PMs.

[Fro99er]

Yes and yes...will do.

[Fro99er]

Current proposed full setup:

Semi-open setup. There will be three pools of roles to choose from for the semi-open part that makes up three of the 17 total roles, and then 14 other roles that won't be publicly known. There are two conditions that will be met:

1. Exactly one role will be chosen at random from each of the three pools
2. Exactly one mafia and two town roles must be chosen in total from the three pools

If a random dice roll does not meet these two requirements, there will be a re-roll as many times as necessary until the two conditions are met.

The semi-open pools are as follows:

Pool 1:

Mafia Ninja
Town Bodyguard, 1-shot bulletproof
Town Doctor

Pool 2:

Mafia Rolecop
Town Tracker
Town Gunsmith

Pool 3:

Mafia Roleblocker
Town Universal Backup

The other 14 roles are as follows:

Town:

Town JOAT (1-shot Commuter, 1-shot Friendly Neighbor, 1-shot Neighborizer)
Town Weak Vigilante
Town 2-shot Vanilla Cop
Town Motion Detector
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT

Mafia:

Mafia Universal Backup
Goon
Goon

Changes:
Mafia Doctor -> Mafia Goon
Town 2-shot Vigilante -> Town Weak Vigilante
Town Vanilla Cop -> Town 2-shot Vanilla Cop
Added Town JOAT (1-shot Commuter, 1-shot Friendly Neighbor, 1-shot Neighborizer)


If it's still scumsided, I could make the Town 2-shot Vanilla Cop a Town JOAT (1-shot Rolecop, 1-shot Vanilla Cop, 1-shot Neapolitan)

[Antihero]

forgot i was doing this sorry

[Antihero]

ok will say stuff when i get to a comp but i don't think you're far off

[Fro99er]

All good Anti! Good to see you again

[Empking]

Looks balanced to me.

[BigYoshiFan]

Looks balanced to me.

*thumbs up*

[TellTaleHeart]

I think it's balanced too.

[Fro99er]

Just wating on Anti. If approved I'll rewrite the rules post and the scum PMs so it's clear in the rules mafia can kill and use ability, and so it's clear for scum that they don't have day talk

[Antihero]

i'm a little concerned about the scum ninja and roleblocker, esp considering the presence of the scum backup so barring a complete scum implosion it guarantees the powers to be around a while.

the ninja castrates the motion detector and tracker, two roles that aren't high flyers to begin with. roleblocker just seems like overkill since there really aren't any heavy-hitting town prs. the closest is either the weak vig (which can only hit max 1 scum) or the gunsmith if town rolls it (and that gets a false positive on the vanilla cop)

i'd say upgrade the vanilla cop to something good like a neapolitan or that investigative joat you have. even a town rolecop would be a decent power since it's semi-open.

then make the scum counters 1-shot OR upgrade tracker --> watcher. that WOULD be a good reason for a full ninja or roleblocker.

[Fro99er]

Alright, I'd rather not make the scum ones X-shot because it goes against the core of the open setup and universal backups

Basically, I think upgrading tracker to watcher is good because then we have a Roleblocker-Watcher-Doc type setup, which is sort of what I was going for from the classic Roleblocker-Cop-Doc setup.

So I'll do tracker becomes watcher, and change the Vanilla cop to the JOAT investigative

[Fro99er]

So this is the new setup.

Pool 1:

Mafia Ninja
Town Bodyguard, 1-shot bulletproof
Town Doctor

Pool 2:

Mafia Rolecop
Town Watcher
Town Gunsmith

Pool 3:

Mafia Roleblocker
Town Universal Backup

The other 14 roles are as follows:

Town:

Town JOAT (1-shot Commuter, 1-shot Friendly Neighbor, 1-shot Neighborizer)
Town Weak Vigilante
Town JOAT (1-shot Rolecop, 1-shot Vanilla Cop, 1-shot Neapolitan)
Town Motion Detector
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT

Mafia:

Mafia Universal Backup
Goon
Goon

Changes:
Mafia Doctor -> Mafia Goon
Town 2-shot Vigilante -> Town Weak Vigilante
Town Vanilla Cop -> Town 2-shot Vanilla Cop
Added Town JOAT (1-shot Commuter, 1-shot Friendly Neighbor, 1-shot Neighborizer)


If it's still scumsided, I could make the Town 2-shot Vanilla Cop a Town JOAT (1-shot Rolecop, 1-shot Vanilla Cop, 1-shot Neapolitan)[/quote]

[Fro99er]

effed up the quote and removing the changes part at the bottom, but the setup is right.

The eight scum-town-town combos then become:

Roleblocker-Doc-Watcher
Roleblocker-Doc-Gunsmith
Roleblocker-BP Bodyguard-Watcher
Roleblocker-BP Bodyguard-Gunsmith

Rolecop-Univ Backup-Doc
Rolecop-Univ Backup-BP Bodyguard

Ninja-Univ Backup-Watcher
Ninja-Univ Backup-Gunsmith

[Antihero]

awesome

update the role pm's and i think we'll be good to go

[Fro99er]

Thanks...will update tonight. Busy day

[Empking]

A freindly bump