Review

[Something_Smart]

Don't even have a name for it yet. Suggestions would be appreciated, it may have some flavor although it won't be flavor-heavy.

Mafia Godfather - returns "town" to cops (kill flavor: shot)
Mafia Assassin - if they carry out the factional kill, target is poisoned and dies the next night. Target is informed they are poisoned, but cannot be saved by bulletproof vests or protective roles (kill flavor: poisoned)
Mafia Serial Killer - investigations targeting them return "no result" on nights when they carry out the factional kill, however they cannot carry out the factional kill two nights in a row (kill flavor: stabbed) [For clarification, they are aligned with the mafia and are not self-aligned, and they do not have an extra kill. The SK part is intentionally confusing but is just flavor.]

Town Jailkeeper
Town Tracker
Town Universal Backup
Town Investigator - JOAT:

• Gunsmith - determine whether or not target has a gun (only the GF has a gun)
  
• Chemist - determine whether or not target can poison another player
  
• FBI Agent - determine whether or not target is a serial killer

6 VT's

The concept is that the players can use the kill flavors coupled with the PR's to narrow down the specific scum killing roles, each of which have their benefits and drawbacks. (And the GF's cop immunity is useless but they don't know that.) And I am aware that it is normally a bad idea to include so many town PR's that can only catch the scum doing the kill, however that is the entire point of the setup (as it does give information even if they don't catch the scum that did the kill) and it also discourages bussing as the fewer members scum have the more likely they are to be guiltied.

Edit: topic is now public.

[Alisae]

sounds fun

[Alisae]

but maybe just maybe the ub is too much

[Something_Smart]

I think town has too little power without the UB. I could maybe swap it out for something else.

[Something_Smart]

I do agree that the UB makes it likely three roles that can catch the scum doing the kill, which is a lot. I could try to think of something that gains power the more scum are alive (as a counter to the swing) but that's pretty hard.

[Alisae]

Hold on what was Pine's mini normal again because this sorta reminds me of that except with godfathers.

[Alisae]

1-shot bp townie, cop, jk vs 3 goons
for my own reference

[Alisae]

how is the joat designed?
are the abilities one shot or ungated or is it something along the lines of say if they were to use the gunsmith they can't repeat an ability until the other abilities have been used.

[Something_Smart]

I was toying with all of those. The one I decided on for now was one shot of each, because it would increase the swing even more if they could use any of the abilities each night (since once scum is left they know exactly what they're looking for).

[Alisae]

that doesn't really work if it repeats

[Alisae]

Maybe its not the UB or the Tracker that's the problem
either way one of those two is the problem.

[Something_Smart]

that doesn't really work if it repeats

Well yeah but then they're using abilities that they know are useless, which I feel like is bad design.

[Something_Smart]

Maybe its not the UB or the Tracker that's the problem
either way one of those two is the problem.

Given the choice I would definitely cut UB, unless you think that having two kill-catching roles at once is too strong.

Maybe I could replace it with a mason pair?

[Alisae]

fair
joat with 1-shot abilities are fine.
makes the role harder and skill is a good thing

pedit: mason pair could be cool, would also allow some room for a pt cop if you want that.
I'd also put a miller and ascetic or maybe both in the setup for the lolz

[Alisae]

Actually
Make one of the masons a Miller and the other an Ascetic LMFAO

[Something_Smart]

I like the ascetic mason idea because it actually fits with the other roles. (Can't be saved by the JK, screws up the investigator) Not so big on the miller mason because that's just a red herring and I don't think town needs this setup to be harder to figure out.

(And this isn't the type of setup that I want to overcomplicate just for lols... I do appreciate the value of that but I'm trying to be elegant here )

So maybe:
GF/Assassin/SK vs Tracker/JK/JOAT/Ascetic Mason/Mason/5x VT

[Alisae]

If one Mason is Ascetic make the other Ascetic.

I suggested the Miller mason to make the investigative role weaker and also modwifom thats being really common nowadays.
I guess the tracker will be fine

[Something_Smart]

The mason pair isn't a bad idea because what I basically need is a way to have a few clears. But I still think the interactions between the other roles and the masons are a little lacking, even with making them ascetic. (For instance, one thing I really like is that the assassin functions as a strongman because the JK can't save the target but if they poison a PR then the PR has a chance to out their results before dying.)

I had another idea today, instead of the mason pair: town odd-night ascetic cop even-night lycanthrope. Basically they're an ascetic cop on odd nights and a werewolf-flavored vig on even nights, with kill flavor "mauled". Similar to the SK, their alignment is still town, but I would also add a seer to the JOAT that can detect if the target is a werewolf. Clearly that would only work on even nights as they'd be ascetic on odd nights. Additionally, it would be interesting to give the cop a one-shot immunity to bullets only; this would give them a little edge against the GF especially if the GF is the only scum remaining.

I think it's about as strong as a mason pair, and certainly way more strategic. It's not likely they'll get more than one successful investigation and one successful shot, and if they do then that's scum's fault for failing at PR hunting. And even still, no role can get a hard inno on its own though the roles in combination can, which is exactly what I want.

[Alisae]

I've been playing pokemon reborn all night I'll get to this when I decide to go to sleep and then wake up.

[Something_Smart]

Spoiler: Role PM's

Welcome, XXXX, to Mini ####: Terror in the City!

You are a

Vanilla Townie

, aligned with the

Town.

You're just an ordinary citizen caught up in this mess, and you're hoping that those responsible will be caught and punished.

You have no special abilities. Your weapons are your mind and your vote.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Please respond to this PM indicating you understand your role and win condition.
The game thread is here (link).

Welcome, XXXX, to Mini ####: Terror in the City!

You are a

Tracker

, aligned with the

Town.

You're an amateur crime-solver with a knack for following others. Your skills enable you to trail people at night undetected.

Each night, you may target a player. You will learn who, if anyone, that player targeted with an action. If your action fails for any reason, you will receive "Your action failed, and you did not receive a result."

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Please respond to this PM indicating you understand your role and win condition.
The game thread is here (link).

Welcome, XXXX, to Mini ####: Terror in the City!

You are a

Jailkeeper

, aligned with the

Town.

You're a judicious prison warden, and you've decided to take matters into your own hands. You have one cell that you may use freely, to keep someone safe from the dangers of the city... or to keep the city safe from them.

Each night, you may target a player. That player will be protected from all kills, and any action that player attempts will fail.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Please respond to this PM indicating you understand your role and win condition.
The game thread is here (link).

Welcome, XXXX, to Mini ####: Terror in the City!

You are an

Investigator

, aligned with the

Town.

You're an experienced and hardened detective. There's almost no enemy you haven't hunted at some point, and you are able to recognize anything that poses a threat to the city.

Each night, you may target a player with one ability. You may use each ability only once.

• Gunsmith:
  Determine whether or not your target has a gun.
  
• Chemist:
  Determine whether or not your target is able to poison other players.
  
• FBI Agent:
  Determine whether or not your target is a serial killer.
  
• Seer:
  Determine whether or not your target is a werewolf.

If your action fails for any reason, you will receive "Your action failed, and you did not receive a result." If this occurs, you will not be able to use that ability again.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Please respond to this PM indicating you understand your role and win condition.
The game thread is here (link).

Welcome, XXXX, to Mini ####: Terror in the City!

You are a

Lycanthrope Ascetic Cop

, aligned with the

Town.

You're a normal police officer. At least, you used to be... but there was an incident, and you haven't been quite the same since. Most of the time, you retain your ability to search for suspicious activity. But when the full moon comes out, nothing but raw meat can satisfy you. Despite this unfortunate condition, your loyalties remain firmly with the town, and you hope to turn your terrible burden into an opportunity to put evildoers to justice.

On odd-numbered nights (1, 3, etc.), you may target a player. You will learn whether or not that player is aligned with the town. Additionally on odd-numbered nights, any actions other than kills that target you will fail.
On even-numbered nights (2, 4, etc.), none of this is true. Instead, you MUST target a player. You will kill that player, and your attack cannot be prevented by any means. Your kill flavor is "mauled". If you fail to submit a target, you will default to the player immediately below you on the living player list.
Finally, the first time you would die to a bullet, at any time, you will instead survive. You will not be informed if this occurs.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Please respond to this PM indicating you understand your role and win condition.
The game thread is here (link).

Welcome, XXXX, to Mini ####: Terror in the City!

You are a

Godfather

, aligned with the

Mafia.

You're a dangerous mob boss, and you've assembled a team of deadly killers to help you take over the city. Due to your long-standing ties in the community, you've become trusted by almost all and are a master at concealing your treachery. But if it becomes necessary... you're not afraid to do some of the dirty work yourself.

Your partners are YYYY,

Mafia Assassin

, and ZZZZ,

Mafia Serial Killer

. You share a private topic (link) that you can talk in at any time. You also share a factional kill that one of your members can carry out each night.

If you are investigated by a cop, you will appear to be aligned with the town. Your kill flavor is "shot".

You win when the Mafia control 50% of all living players or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Please respond to this PM indicating you understand your role and win condition.
The game thread is here (link).

Welcome, XXXX, to Mini ####: Terror in the City!

You are an

Assassin

, aligned with the

Mafia.

You're a an expert killer who works in the shadows. You know precisely how to enter a house and deliver a deadly poison to an unsuspecting victim, and by the time they begin to feel unpleasant, it's too late...

Your partners are YYYY,

Mafia Godfather

, and ZZZZ,

Mafia Serial Killer

. You share a private topic (link) that you can talk in at any time. You also share a factional kill that one of your members can carry out each night.

If you carry out the factional kill, you will poison your target. They will be informed that they have been poisoned, and they will die at the end of the following night. This cannot be prevented by any bulletproof or protective abilities. Your kill flavor is "poisoned".

You win when the Mafia control 50% of all living players or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Please respond to this PM indicating you understand your role and win condition.
The game thread is here (link).

Welcome, XXXX, to Mini ####: Terror in the City!

You are an

Serial Killer

, aligned with the

Mafia.

You're a crazed maniac who obsessively hunts down victims and leaves no trace of who might have done it. Recently, you have been recruited by the Mafia in order to help them destroy the town.

Your partners are YYYY,

Mafia Godfather

, and ZZZZ,

Mafia Assassin

. You share a private topic (link) that you can talk in at any time. You also share a factional kill that one of your members can carry out each night.

On nights when you carry out the factional kill, all investigative actions targeting you will return "no result". However, if you successfully kill a player, then you may not carry out the factional kill on the following night, even if you are the only mafia member remaining. Your kill flavor is "stabbed".

Note: Even though your role is Serial Killer, you are a member of the mafia, NOT self-aligned. You win with your teammates, and you do not possess a kill separate from the factional kill.

You win when the Mafia control 50% of all living players or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Please respond to this PM indicating you understand your role and win condition.
The game thread is here (link).

[Alisae]

oh yeah I was going to look at that
You should tell the cop they'll give a werewolf result if they're checked by a seer unless you want to advertise the game as bastard because of a hidden miller.

Gate the Tracker to 2-shot and I guess I'll be happy.

[Alisae]

also FYI the way I do poisoners is different from how you do them.
I basicly announce someone was poisoned and then they die at the end of the day, and if there are any poison docs they get a chance to cure them of poison during the day.

[Something_Smart]

I think if I revise the cop's role PM to actually say they are a werewolf instead of just implying it that should be fine, and I don't want to confirm that there is a seer in the game. Just like how I don't have to tell mafia that they come up mafia to a cop. Of course if they ASK how they'd come up to a seer then I'd tell them they'd appear as a werewolf.

The tracker is already weakened by the SK's investigation immunity, since that they can't get a guilty at all when the SK is killing. While it is proper play for them to save their shots, I don't want them saving ALL of them as the point is to be able to narrow down who made the kills in previous days. So maybe 3-shot? What is it specifically you want to nerf?

As far as I know, there's no consensus on how poisoners work, and I chose the way I did because of the mechanics. The point is not to open them up to claiming and being healed; the point is to give them a chance to lead the town and out results before dying, but the scum might want to use it anyway because it bypasses protection.

[Alisae]

shrug your setup looks fun anyways so go put it in queue or somethin

[Something_Smart]

I mean, I want it to be balanced, so if you think gating the tracker is more balanced, I'll do that.