RadiantCowbell's 15-p pre-designed setup

[implosion]

Final version is:

15p

Town Informed Gunsmith
Town Jailkeeper
Town Odd-Night Vigilante
Town Even-Night Vigilante
Town Jack Of All Trades (Motion Detector, Follower, Voyeur)
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT
Mafia Traitor
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon

See below for role PMs.

[RadiantCowbells]

15p

Town Informed Gunsmith
Town Jailkeeper
Town Odd-Night Vigilante
Town Even-Night Vigilante
Town Jack Of All Trades (Motion Detector, Follower, Voyeur)
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT
Mafia Traitor
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon
Mafia Backup Gunsmith

Gunsmith is informed that the Mafia do not have any doctors.

[RadiantCowbells]

killing this post as the setup is being reviewed in another review thread

[implosion]

I think one of those is supposed to go into the topic with mastina

[RadiantCowbells]

Ujj yeah

[implosion]

so w/ the 15p setup: 3+traitor:11 probably needs ~a medium tier power role more than 3:10 for balance. At a glance this looks fine. Odd/even vigs and gs and jk are all solid, joat is extremely weak. I think if I err on either side I'd call this ever-so-slightly scumsided. But not significantly. I'm probably willing to approve it as is within the realm of "if it is significantly imbalanced then I can't tell".

[RadiantCowbells]

If you want to nerf scum a liiittle bit we can get rid of their backup gunsmith fakeclaim.

[implosion]

I think that would be good. Sort of a shame bc it has some nice interactions but it also gives scum a lot of info of what to look out for just by existing.

I'll pass the setup with backup gunsmith->goon.

[implosion]

(and role PMs when you get a chance ~~~~)

[RadiantCowbells]

Will do tonight

[RadiantCowbells]

Not tonight get dunked..

Tomorrow

[implosion]

like an oreo in warm milk

[implosion]

and if you do not write role PMs for this setup i will say NI once more

[implosion]

or i'll write them myself idk i'm a wild gun on the loose

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh yeah hm

I'm being lazy af

[RadiantCowbells]

15p

Town Informed Gunsmith
Town Jailkeeper
Town Odd-Night Vigilante
Town Even-Night Vigilante
Town Jack Of All Trades (Motion Detector, Follower, Voyeur)
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT
Mafia Traitor
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon
Mafia Backup Gunsmith

Welcome, X
You are a Vanilla Townie. You have no special abilities.
You win when the Mafia have been removed.

Welcome, X
You are a Town Informed Gunsmith.
Each night you may target a player and discover whether they have a gun. You will receive 'gun', 'no gun', or 'no result'.
You are informed that the Mafia do not have any players with a doctor role.
You win when the mafia have been removed.

Welcome, X
You are a Town Odd-Night Vigilante
On odd nights you may nightkill a player.
You win when the mafia have been removed.

Welcome, X
You are a Town Even-Night Vigilante
On even nights you may nightkill a player.
You win when the mafia have been removed.

Welcome, X
You are a Town Jack Of All Trades.
Once per game you may motion detect a player, determining whether they acted or were acted upon. You will receive a 'motion' or 'no motion' result.
Once per game you may follow a player, determining the type of action that they performed, if any, but not its target. You will receive an action type as a result.
Once per game you may voyeur a player, determinig what type of actions were used upon them, if any, but not by who. You will receive action types as a result.
You win when the mafia have been removed.

Welcome, X
You are a Mafia Traitor. The remainder of your scumteam is A, B, C.
If you are the last remaining member of your scumteam, you will be endgamed by town.
You win when the town have been removed or this can't be prevented from happening.

Welcome, X
You are a Mafia Goon. Your scummates are Y, Z.
Each night your may submit the factional nightkill.
You are aware that you have a traitor among the townsfolk, but not their identity.
You win when the town have been removed or this can't be prevented from happening.

[mastina]

Backup mod here doing backup mod question; just to confirm in case it comes up, traitors have no gun, correct? (Because they can't kill.)

[Krazy]

gives a "guilty" result to Cops, an "innocent" result to Gunsmiths, and a "Traitor" result to Role Cops

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Traitor

Which actually makes me need to confirm that Gunsmiths get "Guilty" and "Innocent" results rather than "Gun" or "No Gun" results, which is confusing af

Need to make sure my wording of results is correct for gunsmith

I also pm'd implosion to confirm that daytalk is ok here. I assume it is but normal guidelines actually say it's moderator choice (so long as you inform the town of your decision)

[Krazy]

implosion confirms daytalk is go so I just gotta remember to say so in rules

[mastina]

(Also I have to say I love this setup. Good job on it, RC.)

[Krazy]

This setup does indeed look pretty fun to play.

So I guess I can't do batman memes for flavor? That would probably give too much credibility to the vig claims anyway I suppose

Maybe flavor based on the "Ross Expedition" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_expedition ? I know I got away with doing flavor based on Donner Party last time I modded

[Krazy]

Notes: I changed the wording of the mafia since there is a follower. It needs to be clear which mafia is making the kill.

There was no Jailkeeper sample PM silly cow

[Krazy]

So double checking here if you want to jump in Radiant

Here is how the PM is worded as I sent it to the player:

Mafia Goon

Welcome, [redacted], to Large Normal 2031!

You are a

Mafia Goon

. Your scummates are [redacted]

At night your faction may decide to kill someone, but you must determine who will carry out the kill.

You are aware that you have a traitor among the townsfolk, but not their identity.

Win:

You win when the town have been removed or this can't be prevented from happening.

Game thread here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=77228

You have access to the Scum PT which is here: [redacted]

Confirm:

Please confirm by responding with your alignment and role name

Right now scum are discussing a quickhammer on a VT on the belief that this will result in immediate game win.

The wiki for traitor says:

As a Traitor is Mafia-aligned, it counts towards the Mafia's win condition. For example, in the situation of 1 Goon, 1 Traitor and 2 Townies, the game ends in a Mafia win.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Traitor

The problem here is that the even-night vig still is alive. But the even night vig cannot shoot tonight.

So it will be 4:4 at the end of this daycycle if a quickhammer occurs. A vig will still be alive but unable to shoot. The scum do not know who their traitor is, so there is the chance they could miss. And they do need to shoot or otherwise risk letting the even night vig make it not 4-4.

The 'safe' thing to do seems to be to let the scum go for one more night cycle, shoot someone, and the game will likely end that way.

But I believe the correct mod action here is to end the game immediately when the VT is lynched to quickhammer since the Mafia Traitor role implies that it counts as a member of the scum team.

Basically I'm a little bit confused here but it seems like a quickhammer on town should result in immediate win rather than win after night cycle.

Maybe I'm over thinking it and should just let the night cycle play out since scum are almost certainly going to shoot town.

[RadiantCowbells]

Given that the win-conditions don't involve parity and instead involve 'town removed or nothing can prevent this from happening' it reaching 4-4 doesn't actually give scum the win unless nothing can prevent it from happening.
The traitor role PM is under the presumption that the wincondition involves hitting parity, which in this case it doesn't.
Therefore, night should happen.

[Krazy]

kk that was what implosion and mastina said as well so it sounds like everyone's on the same page, thank you