A 13-player pre-designed Performer setup


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A 13-player pre-designed Performer setup

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:12 am

Post by implosion »

w/ special guest rc
In post 47, RadiantCowbells wrote:ok
me and nsg were going over changes to the setup on sitechat
how would you feel about

JOAT (Vigilante, Neapolitan)
1-Shot Bulletproof Miller
Doctor
Rolecop
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT

1-Shot Strongman
Encryptor
Goon
Last edited by implosion on Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:02 am

Post by RadiantCowbells »

This is trash set up
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:05 am

Post by Performer »

I wanted to go a bit crazy with this one....so here goes.
-----

Mafia 1-shot Bulletproof Follower (has 1s bp)
Mafia Encryptor
Mafia 1-shot Strongman & 1-shot Rolecop


vs

Ascetic Odd-night Cop
N2 Cop
1-shot Bulletproof Doctor: has 1s bp, unlimited protection
Informed Miller 1-shot Vigilante: you are informed that the mafia team has 3 members & they may or may not have someone with bulletproof ability.
1-shot Neighborizer
6th pr??
4 Vanilla Townies


------
pedit: :lol:
I’m an informed Miller who knows there isn’t any Loyal modifiers and there is a total of 4 scum.
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:13 am

Post by RadiantCowbells »

How did I know

Ok I'm not gonna pass it without stripping down some of the complexity, do you want to get someone else or work on making this more normal with me
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:26 am

Post by implosion »

In post 2, Performer wrote:& they may or may not have someone with bulletproof ability.
technically speaking this is the opposite of information
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:28 am

Post by Performer »

How about this:


Mafia Follower
Mafia Encryptor
Mafia Rolecop

vs

Ascetic Odd-night Cop
N2 Cop
1-shot Bulletproof Doctor
Informed Miller: you are informed there is someone with bulletproof ability
Tracker
Backup Tracker (or can be VT...not sure if 6th pr is needed in this setup)
4 Vanilla Townies
I’m an informed Miller who knows there isn’t any Loyal modifiers and there is a total of 4 scum.
-Morality
I'm easily the best person in the game at mechanics. I don't presume to be the best at anything else.
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:41 am

Post by Performer »

Intents of the setup:
-Day play focus
-In terms of the scum rolecop, 2 town cops, town 1-shot bp, informed miller - cause some intense wifom
-Ascetic, miller, and night-specific modifier (n2) - to balance the 2 investigatives & doctor with some negative utility
I’m an informed Miller who knows there isn’t any Loyal modifiers and there is a total of 4 scum.
-Morality
I'm easily the best person in the game at mechanics. I don't presume to be the best at anything else.
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:48 am

Post by Performer »

In post 5, Performer wrote:How about this:


Mafia Follower
Mafia Encryptor
Mafia Rolecop

vs

Ascetic Odd-night Cop
N2 Cop
1-shot Bulletproof Doctor
Informed Miller: you are informed there is someone with bulletproof ability
Tracker
Backup Tracker (or can be VT...not sure if 6th pr is needed in this setup)
4 Vanilla Townies
other ideas for changes:
-Only replace Mafia Follower with Mafia Bulletproof Enabler
-Only replace the 2 cops above with Odd-night Cop & Even-night Cop
-A combination of both of those ideas
-None of the above ideas for, but other changes?
I’m an informed Miller who knows there isn’t any Loyal modifiers and there is a total of 4 scum.
-Morality
I'm easily the best person in the game at mechanics. I don't presume to be the best at anything else.
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:11 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

This setup is kind of icky in practice but I think it is fine balance wise
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:17 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

Interested in NSGs opinions
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:37 pm

Post by northsidegal »

1-shot BP Doctor is really powerful. Mafia's power comes from high PR-finding ability, although I expect a lot of claims on D1 anyways given that the majority of town isn't vanilla.

Millers tend to be written off as town anyways in practice (i believe) but in this scenario I could see the miller getting suspicion, especially if claiming the informed part. I'm waiting for the day that someone makes scum informed one way or another that miller is a safe fakeclaim and I could see people going down that line of thought.

Tracker/backup tracker means that all three members of the scumteam can be caught at night doing things that they'll have to explain later.


As for balance, it's a bit hard to parse which makes me want to call it swingy. Let's say that scum is lynched D1 after any PR except the Odd-night Cop has to claim. One of their night actions is gone no matter who's lynched (dead encryptor means rolecop or follower have to no action to perform the kill), and their kill is likely to get blocked.

I feel like a lot of this game would eventually come down to setup speculation after everyone claims. Mafia PRs claiming anything other than PR is dangerous given the double tracker, so I could see VTs being setup-specced as town (only exception potentially being the Encryptor, who can still get caught performing the NK).



Still starting out so I don't really have a concrete answer as to whether I think it's balanced or not. My personal recommendation would be to strip away a bit of power on both sides

What's the purpose of the miller being informed, and being informed of that?
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:39 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

I agree that stripping powet would be good

Most scum power in this setup is getting tprs lynched
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:41 pm

Post by northsidegal »

In post 11, RadiantCowbells wrote:Most scum power in this setup is getting tprs lynched
Elaborate?

Another thought: anyone saved by the doctor is conftown unless scum fakeclaim a protective / blocking role.
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:44 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

I'm saying it would likely be pretty easy to get almost any of those tprs lynched

I'm not a fan of the setup at all ftr but it's hard to necessarily argue that it's townsided
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:46 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

Like ... It would be so easy to say that 1 shot bp doc is scum
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:48 pm

Post by northsidegal »

yeah, i was just thinking something kind of similar.

let's think about this. any scum run up d1 are likely going to be claiming a PR. similarly, any of the 6 TPRs will claim their real role. given this, it's very likely that town ends up lynching a PR claim.

of the last 9 games that have featured town doctors, in three of them the doctor has been lynched. on second thought, that might be a bit less likely here given that the miller is informed of
a
bulletproof, but it's still possible that the doctor gets lynched.


something similar could be said about the tracker / backup tracker (i can so clearly see someone saying that it's likely that there has to be one scum among the two)
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:50 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

Maybe give scum a BP role
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:51 pm

Post by northsidegal »

In post 16, RadiantCowbells wrote:Maybe give scum a BP role
to counterclaim / introduce doubt that the informed is referring to the doctor?
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:51 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

Ya
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:53 pm

Post by northsidegal »

-shrug-

i'm not here to design a setup for performer, but i think an interesting way to go off of this setup would be to focus it a bit
more
on the interaction between the miller and the sort of unrealistic doctor role. stripping away some of the other TPRs and replacing mafia PRs with a jailkeeper or other such blocking role seems to me like it'd have a bit more "synergy" or a bit more of a theme to it.

could still give mafia a BP in that scenario for purposes of introducing doubt as to doc-save "clears".
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Post Post #20 (ISO) » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:54 pm

Post by northsidegal »

like, if you made the miller specifically informed of a BP doctor.
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Post Post #21 (ISO) » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:59 pm

Post by implosion »

In post 15, northsidegal wrote:of the last 9 games that have featured town doctors, in three of them the doctor has been lynched.
This makes me curious how often scum fakeclaim doctor in normal games in practice.
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Post Post #22 (ISO) » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:01 pm

Post by northsidegal »

i'm not sure i've ever seen scum fakeclaim doctor and i read a lot of games
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Post Post #23 (ISO) » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:11 pm

Post by Performer »

In post 16, RadiantCowbells wrote:Maybe give scum a BP role
In post 19, northsidegal wrote: focus it a bit
more
on the interaction between the miller and the sort of unrealistic doctor role. stripping away some of the other TPRs and replacing mafia PRs with a jailkeeper or other such blocking role seems to me like it'd have a bit more "synergy" or a bit more of a theme to it.

could still give mafia a BP in that scenario for purposes of introducing doubt as to doc-save "clears".
Hmm interesting. How about this one:


Mafia Bulletproof
Mafia Encryptor
Mafia Jailkeeper

vs

Ascetic Odd-night Cop
N2 Cop
1-shot Bulletproof Doctor
Informed Miller: you are informed there is a Bulletproof Doctor!
Tracker
Backup Tracker
4 Vanilla Townies
I’m an informed Miller who knows there isn’t any Loyal modifiers and there is a total of 4 scum.
-Morality
I'm easily the best person in the game at mechanics. I don't presume to be the best at anything else.
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People tried
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Post Post #24 (ISO) » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:21 pm

Post by northsidegal »

going to defer to RC on whether that's balanced or not. my ~secondary reviewer~ opinion would be that i might replace tracker / backup tracker with something else and for the sake of normal game meta i would make the jailkeeper multitasking.


random thought: multitasking jailkeeper has some element of synergy with keeping a tracker around, but not really any more than tracking someone to the nightkill in the first place.
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