Omochao's Mini Normal Review, August 2019

[implosion]

Subject: Normal Queue Thread (Players and Mods)

/in to mod a mini

Hello - would you like to design a setup, or run a pre-designed one?

If the former, send me the setup at your leisure so I can start the review process.

Thanks!

thank you, I'd like to have my setup reviewed

Spoiler: setup

Town Gunsmith
Town Odd-Night Rolecop
Town Even-Night Doctor
Town Simple Weak Hider
Town Vengeful
Town Vanilla
Town Vanilla
Town Vanilla
Town Vanilla
Town Vanilla
Mafia Encryptor
Mafia Loud Jack-of-all-Trades (Commuter/Jailkeeper/Fruit Vendor)
Serial Killer Universal Backup

Thanks, I'll start the process. As a first FYI though, serial killers are no longer normal in mini games.

[implosion]

Primary: northsidegal
Secondary: RadiantCowbells

[RadiantCowbells]

implo is this the week of your performance review as a mod

[RadiantCowbells]

First thing I want to say is that serial killers are banned from mini normals you'll have to remove it or jack up the player count

[implosion]

if i do well zoraster will TRIPLE my pay!!!

i arbitrarily felt motivated last night and happened to be browsing when you /inned as secondary

[northsidegal]

yeah, no need for me to repeat what's already been said. i imagine this'll change your plans so going to wait for your updated version

[Omochao]

First thing I want to say is that serial killers are banned from mini normals you'll have to remove it or jack up the player count

thanks for that ill be removing it promptly

[Omochao]

Spoiler:

Town Odd-Night Rolecop
Town Even-Night Doctor
Town Simple Weak Hider
Town Fruit Vendor
Town Vengeful
Town Vanilla
Town Vanilla
Town Vanilla
Town Vanilla
Town Vanilla
Mafia Traitor
Mafia Loud Jack-of-all-Trades (Commuter/Jailkeeper/Fruit Vendor)
Mafia Encryptor

Made some switcharoos, worried that by giving mafia an extraman it might be a lil much so i made it a traitor for a sort of in between
not entirely sure how strong the town is, and considered swaping an encryptor for something like a doctor enabler to neuter some town power
would love your guys' thoughts

[northsidegal]

oh, hey nos.

simple weak hider is an interesting role and one that has a lot of anti-synergy for town, at least in this setup. it can't get guilties given that all mafia have some kind of role. i think the only information it can generate is "if this person is mafia, they are a mafia power role – if this person is vanilla, they are town", which is interesting and has some synergy with the rolecop, although isn't really all that strong.

rolecop gets a hard inno on the vengeful, soft innos on the doctor and hider, hard guilty on the traitor and a soft guilty on the encryptor.

vengeful is a pretty rare role so i'm not 100% on my perception of its power but i don't consider it very strong, interested to hear RC's thoughts there.


Overall I think this is a pretty low power level game on both sides, but I'd probably err towards town being more powerful than scum. Mafia JOAT doesn't really have anything to dodge with the commute, the jailkeep shot being loud makes it pretty bad to use as a roleblocking tool and the FV has only loose fakeclaiming utility. I think it would be a good idea to give a boost to both sides, something like add in the doctor enabler and change the rolecop to a full rolecop.

I also always like to hear if there's some kind of theme or central "thing" you're going for so that I could get a better idea of what you're thinking and maybe suggest changes along that line.

[Omochao]

ok thanks for your input

i initially had this setup revolve around a vanilla cop which i nerfed with a simple weak hider (because it had more words) and liked the idea with half of the town and all scum having a power role, and the vanilla cop getting a vanilla result being an actual clear because of no goons on the scum side. Because of there being a lot of power roles I didn't want to have major balance issues so i tried to have low power roles.

with sk removed thinking of adding the vanilla cop back and making mafia a bit less underwhelming

[Omochao]

something like this

Town Rolecop
Town Even-Night Doctor
Town Vanilla Cop
Town Fruit Vendor
Town Vengeful
Town Vanilla
Town Vanilla
Town Vanilla
Town Vanilla
Town Vanilla
Mafia Traitor
Mafia Loud Jack-of-all-Trades (Tracker/Jailkeeper/Fruit Vendor)
Mafia Encryptor

Maybe another role on the stronger side for mafia to replace the encryptor

maybe make give something else to the

[Omochao]

was on crack with that last sentence please ignore

[implosion]

i like that sentence on a fundamental level

[Omochao]

bump

[northsidegal]

hey sorry, haven't forgotten about this.

[northsidegal]

I think as it is if you removed the traitor it would be close enough for me to feel comfortable passing it. As it is now, even though none of the town PRs are individually all that powerful, there are five of them versus a groupscum team of two which still has issues with fairly low utility on the loud JOAT. A traitor is honestly a really big hit to scum power, and i don't think the town is weak enough or the mafia near strong enough to balance things out.

if i might make a suggestion, you said that an idea you liked was a vanilla cop getting a vanilla result being a clear. what do you think about something like a VT informed of the fact that there are no mafia PRs? as it stands, although you're correct that in this setup a vanilla result is a clear, i don't think there's any way for the players to become aware of that. an informed townie fulfills the purpose of being a PR for the purposes of vanilla cop investigations, and introduces that information into the town while still potentially introducing doubt as to the truth until such a time as the townie flips. after all, come massclaim, it could reasonably be taken as just a scum gambit.

again – just a suggestion, totally detached from my review of the setup as you've given.

[Omochao]

Town Rolecop
Town Even-Night Doctor
Town Vanilla Cop
Town Fruit Vendor
Town Vengeful
Town Informed (mafia has no vanilla roles)
Town Vanilla
Town Vanilla
Town Vanilla
Town Vanilla
Mafia 1x Strongman
Mafia Loud Jack-of-all-Trades (Tracker/Jailkeeper/Fruit Vendor)
Mafia Doctor Enabler

added town informed, swapped encryptor for doctor enabler, and swapped traitor for strong man

[northsidegal]

I think scum is too strong in that setup with both the strongman and doc enabler, and I think there are too few VTs for expectations of normal games.

Town Rolecop
Town Even-Night Doctor
Town Vanilla Cop
Town Vengeful
Town Informed (There are no vanilla mafia members)
Town Vanilla
Town Vanilla
Town Vanilla
Town Vanilla
Town Vanilla
Mafia 1x Ninja
Mafia Loud Jack-of-all-Trades (Tracker/Jailkeeper/Fruit Vendor)
Mafia Encryptor

I removed the fruit vendor to add another VT, removed the doc enabler and changed the strongman to a Ninja. Ninja is still a rolecop guilty but doesn't actually give scum utility and an extra VT is potentially an extra inno come massclaim

Let me know what you think

[RadiantCowbells]

Ehhh

I'm kind of iffy on the interaction between the vanilla cop and the informed

[Omochao]

does informed return vanilla? been wondering about how that goes down

[RadiantCowbells]

moreso that

you're kinda creating a puzzle

[Omochao]

Otherwise fine with swapping FV for VT, really like 50:50 ratio of PR:VT in town

not entirely sold on removing both doctor enabler and 1x strongman because i think that falls back into scum being too weak like before

[Omochao]

moreso that

you're kinda creating a puzzle

is that bad?

[Omochao]

Town Rolecop
Town Even-Night Doctor
Town Vanilla Cop
Town Vengeful
Town Informed (There are no vanilla mafia members)
Town Vanilla
Town Vanilla
Town Vanilla
Town Vanilla
Town Vanilla
Mafia 1x Ninja
Mafia Loud Jack-of-all-Trades (Tracker/Jailkeeper/Fruit Vendor)
Mafia Doctor Enabler

I like the 1x ninja would probably just change encryptor to doctor enabler

[northsidegal]

does informed return vanilla? been wondering about how that goes down

Informed returns non vanilla