Gypyx's Large Normal Review, January 2021

[implosion]

hey so, i thoughts about some changes to make it less complex, cuz that'll prob happen during review anyways

Spoiler: 17p version

Town Vengeful Combined Babysitter Vigilante
Town Odd-night PT Cop
Town Macho Rolestopper
Town Neighborizer (c)
Town Neighbor Loud Vanilla Cop (a)
Town Fruit Vendor
Vt*7

Mafia Ascetic Neighbor (b)
Mafia 2-shot Annoucning jailkeeper Neighbor (b)
Mafia Babysitter Enabler Neighbor (b)
Mafia Informed Traitor Neighbor Neighbor (there is a "Combined Babysitter Vigilante" in the game) (a ; b)

Spoiler: 21p Version

Town Day 1 IC Personal Gunsmith
Town PT Cop
Town Loud Vanilla Cop Neighbor (a)
Town Vengeful Combined Babysitter Vigilante
Town 3-shot Loyal Checker
Town Neighborizer (c)
Town Macho Rolestopper

Mafia Ascetic Disloyal Babysitter Neighbor (b)
Mafia Annoucing Jailkeeper Neighbor (b)
Mafia Detective Neighbor (b)
Mafia Bulletproof Traitor Neighbor Neighbor (a ; b)

Serial Killer Roleblocker Rolestopper 1-shot Commuter

scum is multitasking by default, daytalk on by default

[implosion]

Primary: Flavor Leaf
Secondary: Isis

[Gypyx]

so, i'm really attached to these following roles, and tried to make my design around them :

Vengeful Combined Babysitter Vigilante
having the traitor in a hood with the scumteam

and for the 21p :


Personal Gunsmith
and if the serial killer could stay relatively untouched i'd be great

of course all depends on which setup y'all think is better

[Flavor Leaf]

checking in, ill give this some time tomorrow.

[Isis]

Uh, is this the setup you meant to submit? The mafia traitor's first post in neighborhood b would be "I am a traitor."

[Gypyx]

that's the point yes

you feel like this would be a bad thing?

[Gypyx]

basically i wanted a traitor because it would be interesting to have a "weaker" mafia member, but the main, and legitimate reason that peoples dislike traitor is that they can't communicate with the team, so the hood is meant to fix that

[Isis]

It'd be less bastard to accomplish that with an informed modifier if that's what you wanted to accomplish. Gunless goon is a pretty common role but I guess it's true it's not normal, although it really ought to be since it's just a traitor with half the twists, and the missing twist is the more controversial one.
Or what about a traitor mailman? I think that'd subvert player expectations even less. There is a brief delay there for day 1 compared to other options but it's a large.

[Gypyx]

hmmm, i could do traitor mailman if you feel like the current situation is too far from normal expectations

do you prefere any of the 2 sizes btw?

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, so the all mafia neighborhood with the traitor just effectively makes it a group scum PT.

Other than I that, I think the 17p is relatively fine, probably make a neighborhood out of a few of the Mafia/Town so the PT cop has something.

[Gypyx]

there's already the traitor / vcop hood, you'd want more?

[Flavor Leaf]

Town Day 1 IC Personal Gunsmith
Town PT Cop
Town Loud Vanilla Cop Neighbor (a)
Town Vengeful Combined Babysitter Vigilante
Town 3-shot Loyal Checker
Town Neighborizer (c)
Town Macho Rolestopper

Mafia Ascetic Disloyal Babysitter Neighbor (b)
Mafia Annoucing Jailkeeper Neighbor (b)
Mafia Detective Neighbor (b)
Mafia Bulletproof Traitor Neighbor Neighbor (a ; b)

Serial Killer Roleblocker Rolestopper 1-shot Commuter


Same thing here with the traitor effectively not mattering too much, I get the weaker side of things.

It's swingy, but I think it's decently balanced.

the disloyal babysitter is a little rough because it gives a double kill in a normal for mafia possibly.

the babysitter vigilante, I don't really like the combined vigilante part, because the babysitter becomes pretty useless? And the vengeful does seem a bit like overkill on the role.

[Flavor Leaf]

there's already the traitor / vcop hood, you'd want more?

i'm more not really understanding the all mafia hood with the traitor, that's essentially just a Scum PT, which kinda makes the traitor not matter.

[Gypyx]

traitor is still a gunless mafioso basically, as i said, traitor not being able to communicate to the team usually causes more angriness than anything

[Isis]

Actually normal queue does have gunless goon. It's Mafia Doctor Compulsive Ninja Visitor.

[Isis]

You don't need the doctor if there's no gunsmith in the setup.

Compulsive commuter is no longer identical but may be more palatable.

I would rather you hack gunless goon in this way than with traitor, as a day one traitor flip creates bastard impressions about how bussing should be viewed. The other hacks don't.

[Gypyx]

hmm... didn't think that this was how compulsive works, but if it is i'm definetly happy to implement it that way

i'm off to sleep, will think about setup changes once awake

[Isis]

I am confident that is how compulsive functions, it has been used that way for scumteam in the past. (It is necessary that the game doesn't include default multitasking though.)

[Isis]

I think 11 looks ok. Anything with an SK is so flexible on what you can call balanced because it depends a lot what happens with the SK.

[Gypyx]

basically, babysitter vigilante cancels each other out as a babysitter protects from one kill, but when they die, they will also kill whoever they were targeting

[Gypyx]

the disloyal babysitter is a little rough because it gives a double kill in a normal for mafia possibly.

well yeah, i'm using it as a compensating measure for a mafia being nk'd, you think that's bad?

[Isis]

It's unnormal to lose two obvtown in one night, kind of. I think is what he meant.

[Isis]

Since scum vig is banned. (and SKs usually don't shoot obvtown leaders i don't think)

[Gypyx]

hmmm.. alright that's fair

[Gypyx]

Town Day 1 IC Personal Gunsmith
Town PT Cop
Town Loud Vanilla Cop Neighbor (a)
Town Vengeful Combined Babysitter Vigilante
Town 3-shot Loyal Checker
Town Neighborizer (c)
Town Macho Doctor
vt*9

Mafia Ascetic
Mafia Annoucing Jailkeeper
Mafia Multiasking Detective
Mafia Bulletproof Compulsive Ninja Checker Neighbor (a)

Serial Killer Multitasking Roleblocker Rolestopper 1-shot Commuter

so, here's setup with the problems you pointed out removed