Datisi's Mini Normal Review, March 2021

mastina
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Post Post #3  (isolation #0)  » Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:34 pm

Balance-wise I think it's fine: town has incredibly strong investigatives that are incredibly likely to be townread and give good results, but absolutely zero killstopping power; the gunsmith being mostly worthless is fine imo.

I'm not too concerned about Normalcy, either; there was a Normal with three mafia Strongmen and no town protectives with a similar mechanic (in this case a town rolecop so that the rolecop got a guilty on all three scum), so this game featuring a similar idea I think is fine.

My main concern factor is funness--technically not a reviewing requirement, but I don't think the gunsmith is going to have much fun this game.

Would love to hear from Ircher on this tho.

mastina
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Post Post #10  (isolation #1)  » Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:45 pm

In post 7, Datisi wrote:could there be an extra way to tip the gunsmith off without plainly giving away the gimmick? maybe something like "you're informed that 4 players in the game (including yourself) would show up as "having a gun" to a gunsmith"?
That's a good way to solve the issue but does lead to the scum massclaim issue you mentioned.

A possible workaround is to give scum the information on one of the mafia doctors:
"You are informed that there is an Informed aware of there being 4 players that would show as having a gun to a gunsmith". That might give the scum too much info, but it'd avoid fucking them over.

mastina
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Post Post #11  (isolation #2)  » Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:49 pm

In post 10, mastina wrote:
In post 7, Datisi wrote:could there be an extra way to tip the gunsmith off without plainly giving away the gimmick? maybe something like "you're informed that 4 players in the game (including yourself) would show up as "having a gun" to a gunsmith"?
That's a good way to solve the issue but does lead to the scum massclaim issue you mentioned.

A possible workaround is to give scum the information on one of the mafia doctors:
"You are informed that there is an Informed aware of there being 4 players that would show as having a gun to a gunsmith". That might give the scum too much info, but it'd avoid fucking them over.
For the record that'd be:

town odd-night neapolitan neighbour
town even-night rolecop neighbour
town 1-shot pt cop
town informed gunsmith (4 roles, including self, showing as having a gun)
6x vt
vs
2x mafia doctor
1x mafia informed doctor ("there is a informed town aware that 4 roles in this game show as having a gun to a gunsmith")

However, this is just my proposal to keep the original setup as close as is possible; if you'd rather, we can work on one of the setups in / .

mastina
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Post Post #12  (isolation #3)  » Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:53 pm

(I realize that informed of someone being informed and the nature of that information is slightly clunky and veering closer to theme mechanics, but I feel like in this setup it would work well enough and I personally would be fine with it as a Normal mechanic overall, as something which balances the scales and maintains the fun factor for both alignments.)

mastina
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Post Post #15  (isolation #4)  » Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:10 pm

When it comes to town PRs, that will always be an unsolvable balance issue: if you have too few TPRs, they are considered conftown when all claim. (If you have only 3.)
If you have too many TPRs, however, if they are all actually considered town, that's too oppressive to the scum. (Say you have 6 town PRs; if all are seen as town, then scum have literally only 4 slots at most that they can eliminate.)
Which is why setups usually have 4 or 5; that's the magical zone where there's not too many players conftown'd if all are believed, and yet not all players claiming PRs are conftown for having claimed it.

In the setup proposed in post , town even when massclaiming I don't think instantly figures it out unless there's two scum dead. Prior to two scum being dead, a scum being an investigative PR realclaiming as essentially a scum-miller is a real possibility to them.

It IS tricky to tell, there's no surefire way to guarantee the game doesn't swing into the extreme where one faction plays about as well as they can and narrows things down appropriately. But I believe that overall the setup is fine, tho I again would like to hear Ircher's thoughts as well.

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Post Post #19  (isolation #5)  » Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:01 pm

In post 18, Ircher wrote:I don't think mass claim is quite as big of an issue as it may seem; in particular, I think in setups like this one with several investigatives, most people are going to assume at least one of them is lying because normally, investigative heavy setups are really tough on scum.

I think the last proposed setup looks fine. Town's power is very solid here and scum have the information needed to avoid bad claims. Scum can probably get the role cop or detective mislimmed if they plan their claims carefully, so I wouldn't be too concerned about massclaim in that setup.
Agreed RE: 's setup. I think it is, overall, balanced, and shouldn't be inherently unfun.

If that's the final setup, I'm good with its Normalcy and balance, so that'd just mean we need to see the roles for a pass.

mastina
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Post Post #22  (isolation #6)  » Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:22 am

On that note, while it's not likely to be an issue, should probably note that mafia cannot kill and doc in the same night in the role PMs. (As I don't see anything about factional multitasking in the setup's roles.)

Looks good to me otherwise tho.

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Post Post #24  (isolation #7)  » Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:55 pm

In post 23, Datisi wrote:i thought it was "no multitasking unless otherwise stated", but i'll add it.
It is, but if it's not stated in the role PMs it can still be confusing to the players; I err on the side of caution of being safe rather than sorry and spelling it out for them just in case.

But anyway, /pass!


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