Team Mafia 2018: Game 3 - Random GIFs Game Over

[havingfitz]

Goid morning! Starting read through now. Will opine asap.

[havingfitz]

I intend to be voting Fitz after he catches up

WTF?

With this ^logic^ you should be fine with me voting you until I DO get caught up:

VOTE: Mathdino

[havingfitz]

lol at titus and fitz not getting the joke

I haven't read the game yet so comments out of context will be taken at face value.

[havingfitz]

I intend to be voting Fitz after he catches up

WTF?

With this ^logic^ you should be fine with me voting you until I DO get caught up:

VOTE: Mathdino

lol at titus and fitz not getting the joke

and i'll prob go back to you once you and others properly catch up

So you were joking but not really.

[havingfitz]

RL got in the way last night. Only up to page 5 of my read. Zzzzzz
Will devote any available free time today to this game. Hope to have thoughts/reads/opinions/vote (if moving it) posted nlt tomorrow noonish EST.

[havingfitz]

Spoiler: %50 caught up :(

Up to page 5. So far it seems to be mostly Mathdino (no shock), skirt skirt, LLD and some Elena with the occasional other poster here and there.

Not sure how much help all of Math's number crunching is going to provide. Especially given that it's spread out over 5 games and 75 players. I'd prefer to focus on the players in this game and what they have said and done.

A bit suspect of skirt at this point.

Math gives me the try hard to look town paranoia where I think he is trying to be helpful to town but I'm not sure how much and if it's not to just sucker town into blindly following him. Which probably won't happen in this lineup but...paranoia.

Elena a TBD at this point. And based off the quick skim I did yesterday...I never knew she was so many people rolled up in to one. ffs.

Math would avoid scum like the plague given the caliber of the tonereaders in this game. mmmkay.

This sounds like Elena is saying her team drew some amount of scum roles and this role was what she was left with. That said...I don't know her team's preferences enough to know if any of them would have wanted to be scum more than town. Translation...if Elena's team was not confident in choosing to be scum her "whatever was left and I got this" could be scum.

Bins makes a point here. It had pinged my attention when I read it but then I couldn't find it. I find it odd the skirt talk about wanting to be scum and how he would have deferred and given it to transcend. And Transcend wound up in this game 500 ish posts later. Made me wonder if Transcend wanted to try his hand at his team's scum role (or one of them if more than one).

@A50....is "literally not knowing them" the only reason you are voting CDB?

smh....

Page 7: Dunker feels town. A50 seems a little agitated/skittish? Not how I typically think his posting should be.

Post 199...not a fan of CDB voting LLD (town) because her team MIGHT have rolled a scum role and she MIGHT have taken it. ffs

Post 201...not a fan of Math trying to direct a potential investigation (at A50).

Dunker... is def town.

Math's read on CDB is pants.

Post 252...in this post Math talks about the only person who has caught him as scum before (Something_Smart) which would seem in conflict with his ealier comments about not wanting to be scum and how he has a lot of scum tells. Basically downplaying his scum play. Downplaying any aspect of his game does not seem in Math's character iirc.

I didn't realize A50 was English. Cheers.

havingfitz is amused at 3P T-Bone.

My favorite Nigel is...Nigel Olsson.

I feel like this read is going extrememly slowly. Like I'm trudging through quicksand.

Not a fan of self votes...followed up with a dash of AtE.

Really not a fan of basing individual's alignments on how they may have selected within their team. Maaaybe as a town tell but definitely not as a scum tell. I would also think the towntell would be stronger if another person in their "team" were to flip scum in a different game. And as I am still reeeeeeeeeeeading this one, considering what has happened in other games will have to wait.

ha! ditto...

I keep seeing one of skirt or lld has to be scum? WTFW? skirt may very well be scum but why can't they both be town?

Post 408...why are you requesting a wagon on Bins when she isn't even in the scum team you propose in the same post?

Math AND A50 both being scum would be hilarious. But I am leaning towards at least one of them being scum. Using their apparent familiarity with each other to meet whatever their role's objectives are.

ha again! ~ditto...ok...Dunker is town.

lol... made it count.

@A50

...

have you ever crumbed as scum before? Have you ever crumbed VT before?

Page 29. Transcend feels town.

Just realized I have never played with Keychain when she was town. Just two of her scum games =:O

Post 753 by Math....vehemently dislike the first line of this post.

OK...up to post 800. Taking much longer than I want and I haven't even got to the pages and pages of the lld v Elena exchanges I recall seeing.

Posting this midpoint post to avoid mega wall and give insight into where I am at at this point in the game (subject to change of course).

Dunkerdoodles - Town
Keychain - Town
Radja - Town
Bins - Town
Bulbazak - Town
UC Voyager - Town
T-Bone - lean town
Transcend/skirt skirt - sliight lean town
Aeronaut - idfk .... ISO
Almost50 - leaning Town with paranoia he's scum
Smocaine - nullscum ISO assesschess
ChannelDelibird- sus
Elena Fisher - sus
Mathdino - Scum

[havingfitz]

Up to page 54. Should be caught up tonight if thread doesn't explode.

[havingfitz]

Spoiler: Part 2 of catch up

@Math...so your meta is that you're not a meta-player and that you use meta as a weak tool. mmmkay

Page 41. My predecessor is making a return to the game. Lot's of emotion there lol.... Dodged that bullet (of playing with/against her instead of in place of her).

Page 43 up in smoke. 44 not much better.

Ha....Math's lynch list seems very similar to mine iirc (I haven't checked this), with the exception of he and I switching places. I do not know what to make of this. Either I am wrong on him and the others are legit scum prospects or I am right on him and off base on most of the others. suck.a.lemon.face

I have to remind myself that Math doesn't use meta.

The answer is everyone.

I like Keychain's observation about Math clearing people/teams easily. I've thought the same thing.

@Math...can you state/restate your "serious" reasons for voting LLD (me)? My recollection is you wavereda lot on the slot and I don't recall what caused you to move.

@Bins...don't vote LLD or me please. I'm town and I'm almost caught up.

@Keychain...hello! Looking forward to playing again for however long it lasts.

@chesskid...fuck off and take more pictures of Park Guell + Sagrada Familia

@A50...page 6 didn't have me thinking RVS. OK. And ok.

@mod...

I'd support a deadline extension as well.

@Bins...I'm not an expert on LLD AtE but I know in this game she was doing it as town. And whether it is real or fake AtE (idk) it could be used by either alignment to get their point across.

WRT to this CDB post...boooooo.

CAUGHT UP!!! (until I get behind again)

Reads again:

Dunkerdoodles - Town
Keychain - Town
Radja - Town
Bins - Town
Bulbazak - Town
T-Bone - lean town
UC Voyager - lean town (knocked down for activity)
Transcend/skirt skirt - sliight lean town (still waiting for Titus to push my read on the slot further someway)
Aeronaut - idfk .... another replace out?
Almost50 - leaning Town with paranoia he's scum (no change)
Smocaine - nullscum ISO/assesschess (maybe less of a sr. Need to ISO both players in this slot. I know chess has posted a good bit but I can't recall anything AI?)
Elena Fisher - sus
ChannelDelibird- susser
Mathdino - Scum

Done for tonight...will look specific bits over more closely tomorrow and try to opine more better.

[havingfitz]

happier with my Fitz vote

[havingfitz]

@Fitz: Thought about this last night, but bed and all that: Can you explain why you have a high townread of me? You said nothing about me at all in your catchup, and I would have expected at least some mention of something you agreed with, or even just my tiff with Skirt that led to my taking time completely away from the game. You mentioned the LLD explosion, but nothing about my V/LA that came before that. I found that odd.

@Bulba...I wouldn't call you a high town read. Just a standard ACME townread. On the same level as most of the other trs.

As for not mentioning you...that's usually a good thing in my catch ups. When I catch up in a game I do a quick skim through to note where the votes are and I may or may not linger in a few areas if something catches my eye (like LLD going off). Then I do a complete read through where I make note of anything I think deserves mentioning/exploring. More often than not I mention things I find peculiar or suspect. While I do sometimes comment on things I agree with, it's the exception.

So you are a townread for me atm due to a lack of things I don't like about your posts. Hence no mention in the catch up.

I didn't think anything of your v/la other than it sounded like you needed it.

[havingfitz]

I'll do more reading all over the 5 games to make sure we lynch Scum in THIS game (We don't want to be the only game w/o a Scum lynch, do we?)

There's been at least one scum lynch. Someone mentioned it in this game.

[havingfitz]

VOTE: Titus

I don't care if this look OMGUSy as hell.

I just KNOW your team has a red PM (probably 2), and the same goes to Fitz'.

I just couldn't decide which game it is.

Did that hurt pulling this wag out from your posterior? Lol...

There could be teams with 5 mafia or 0 mafia. Trying to infer any of the team possibilities increases odds an individual in one of the games might be scum is bad. Shame on you A50.

[havingfitz]

More Math votes please.

Can everyone not in this game give their opinions on everything stat!

Can anyone on Math's team switch with him asap? The slot will still be scum but odds are there'll be less noise.

A50...whhhhhy? Nvm... I'll look.

Keychain...whhhhhy? Nvm... I'll look

My team is all VTs btw.

I'll catch up in the morning zzzzzzz

[havingfitz]

My team is all VTs btw.

That is the oddest thing to claim and I am very much conflicted.
1) I don’t believe it.
2) Why would you think anyone would believe it.

You realize this is a confirmed lie, right? Because someone on your team has already flipped not VT.

Pardon the end of a long day attempt at humor.

1) It was sarcasm (as were the 2nd and 3rd lines of that post). I seemed to recall in my read through that people were supposed to only say their entire team was vt. Was that not so?
2) See point one. Even if someone on my team had flipped scum I'd have made the same comment.

[havingfitz]

@Math...How do you know what my team members contributions to our team has been? Why are you clamoring for input from my team mates? Why do you need people who are not in this game to opine on things here when there are people from each team actually in this game playing it. I'm here. Ask me.

This other team member mantra you keep spouting comes off as fake to me. You think if you ask player x to give you info from their team...and player x is scum...that their team mates won't give information that is beneficial to player x's wincon (as well as their team)? If you seriously think I am scum...wtf do you expect to get from anyone on my team. This shows how fos you are.

And you think players not in this game are better at getting reads on players than the players in here? UCV just supported/based a vote on me based on what Creature said. Creature can't read me for shit. Everyone gets reads wrong...RC has read me wrong before. WTF cares?

The players in this game are playing the game. You do not know what motivation or accuracy you are going to get from any read

I think you are full of shit with all the NAI crap you are pushing in this game [out of game opinions, odds of TEAMs chances of having scum roles, presuming which team member would take the aforementioned WAG team scumroles]. You're backing up reads (or making them entirely?) based on assumptions based on guesses. It's like nai bullshit to the 3rd power. And right now you are pushing a mislynch. You worked in your typical little ad hom with the "fitz would be an insignificant loss compared to lld" which would indicate to you consider me "low hanging fruit"...which btw you have used in the defense of others iirc...and that if lld was still in the game you would not be considering her. Well she was town and I have the same role pm she did.

If anyone in this game has questions for someone on my team I would not be opposed out of courtesy to relay the question/ or their reply. I just don't think out of game views should be given any more weight than that of the team member actually playing in the game. Especially given you do not know the wincon they are interested in supporting.

For now I plan on looking over the the people this morning who are suspecting/voting me to see how genuine/legit their reasons are. They are all wrong...but which are town and which are scum is what I need to discern.

[havingfitz]

@A50...where are you getting your guesses on team alignment number?

[havingfitz]

@Math...

1) I've had discussions with my team mates about their games. And only one of them isn't occupied (i.e. only one has been lynched) and they aren't active in the PT (yet) ...I've been prompting them for input .

2) lol...so go for it. Ask away. My problem with it is I still do not see how you can think a player is scum and ask for their team mate's input on this game. I think you are trying to power your way through this game. I suspect you. I don't care what anyone in your team thinks as fmpov their pov would be coming from a scum wincon. And I guess I'm not 100% against outside opinions...It would be situational I suppose. Ex. If I have a really strong townread on a player (or they are confirmed town somehow) then I would entertain opinions from any of their team mates who I valued the opinions of. And as I said...if you have a question for any of my team mates ask away.

3) You see shortcomings in UCV's game that you think Creature would fix? Shortcomings you would impose on another game's players? Asking for someone to get replaced by one of their team mates is just rude lol. UCV did just post in here today iirc ($%^&!).

4) Exactly. You don't know what you are getting. The pessimism is valid.

5) You have talked about composition of other teams sat least once. You initiated it I believe with your presentation on PROBABILITIES FOR TEAM COMPOSITION. So yes...it is a train of thought that's been something you have promoted. That is worthless. As is projecting who might be more likely to pick a role that you have no way of knowing a team even has access to? ? ? ?

I'm glad you don't consider your push on me to be ideal. We can agree on that. And this is our 3rd game that I am aware of so other than my SK fail I do not know what " "times" " you have "got" me as scum.

**********************

@A50...what is wrong with getting an off the top on someone's head answer? I wasn't really expecting a good answer I suppose since the answer is "There is no way you can know 'TEAM COMPOSITION' ".

If a team had 4 players flip town in their respective games would you lock!scum the remaining team member? If a team had 2 or 3 members flip scum would you lock!town the others in the team? smh....

The answer is you are going to come up with whatever end assessment that suits your objective.

[havingfitz]

My connectivity has been shit today. Makes going from page to page extremely frustrating. If anyone has any questions for me I'm happy to answer assuming I can post. Even from scumreads.

[havingfitz]

@Fitz: Can you be on around 11am EST?

Not sure. Weekends are tough.

If you ping me I'll give my best Beetlejuice effort.

[havingfitz]

Btw...I've asked my team if there's anything they want to add to this game (reads...w/e) and I'll relay thoughts as given. If I'm the lynch players in here will at least know they can trust thier motives. Accuracy who knows.

[havingfitz]

This is some good shit.

chesskid

, which teams in this tournament (and more specifically which players in this game) know enough about probability to not fall into that trap?

Just figuring out who that tell is going to be null for.

ffs

[havingfitz]

@fiz: Your reactions to this conversation are awful and are making be believe more that you're caught scum who just can't defend themselves anymore. Just saying.

How are my reactions AI? smh...

I'm not a fan of all the math injects.
I love math (the subject).
My wife was a math teacher and is in a different math heavy job.
I have a son who was a math wiz growing up who did math for fun in his spare time, competing in math competitions and winning state championships. Now an engineer.
I'm math competent though not required in my daily activities.

As much a I enjoy math I'm getting aaf at all the math being tossed about in here. It's nothing AI. I'd be annoyed if I was scum as well.

[havingfitz]

The last ffs was more towards the suggestion of assessing other players in the tournament and their interest in math to assess their likelihood of using probabilities to their advantage...not falling in to some trap/s. Still math support swaguesswork.

[havingfitz]

What about that annoys you?

Edit: Do you have something better to do? We're likely to be the last game to reach a lynch. I have a lynchpool.

Annoys...I don't think it's applicable to mafia...especially on D1 and people who are comfortable with it can easily make it sound appealing and support their objectives whether they are town or scum.

Edit: who was this addressed to?

[havingfitz]

Here....for about 20-30 minutes.

[havingfitz]

My team had some comments btw. Reading them over and will paraphrase the main gist of it.

[havingfitz]

I have trouble believing fitz's scumread on me is genuine this game after seeing me in 2 other games where I played (I think) similarly powerfully. I think it's a tactical attempt to discredit me and my push.

My read on you is genuine having not seen your scum game and assuming you would be competent enough to not play markedly different. I'm not scum reading you because you are playing exactly like you are in the two games we have before this one. I'm scum reading you independently of my experience in those games. Some of the things I find suspect in here you might have been doing in those games as well...and I had doubts about you because of them...but I'm not going to completely discount them in this game just because you were town in those games.

And I can't recall ottomh....do you recall if I suspected you in either of those games? Before you died (obviously) or before the last scum died in my sk game?

[havingfitz]

A50...could you summarize your point in the post above?

[havingfitz]

Things Llamarble wanted to share -
Llamarble has started reading and given some reads but they aren't going to be good for anything D1
It's hard to help town teammates (and easy to give something to scum ones)!
Swaps can be used to manipulate choice-of-game tells.

Also...in summary of his other comments...he differs from me in the reads on Elena and Bins. He thinks Elena is ok and doesn't see anything particularly town in Bins. He needs to read more deeply to firm those up.

And he thinks the guessing which player would have picked which role pm in a team where you don't even know if they have certain role pms is bad. His experience has been choice of game tells mislead town.

I asked for specific reads on A50 and Math and he didn't touch base on them the the setup spec opinion probably pertains to them.

I think Cabd might opine...not sure. My other two team mates have been busy or awol.

Math isn't happening today so....UNVOTE:

I still like my strong town reads but not sure where to go for scum. Too late to start from scratch this day and no word on extension.

[havingfitz]

Never mind...two of my stronger townreads sr Math and no reason for my vote to be quiet.

VOTE: Math

[havingfitz]

I see Srceenplay just died and flipped town. He is Dunker's mate and Dunker is widely townread in here. Srceenplay reads me well. Help or not his view on me would be appreciated.