Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[Lycanfire]

I could spew more reasons than you for Marquis, or why Postie died, so why are you the one pushing this shit? Zero effort.

[Ranmaru]

Lycanfire, what is your read on Shea?

[Ranmaru]

NSG

: I want you to make the effort to post more. I want to know your full reads list today. I also want your KMD notes.

[Gamma Emerald]

So that would be the read.

Ran's defense of Gamma is completely unwarranted. He keeps saying it's a meta read, but he has yet to demonstrate how this game is any different that Gamma's other games. The reason I wanted people to look at Gamma's games is to show that Gamma is remarkably good at copying his Town meta. So then for Ran to just give these lame ass "reasons" for a "Meta Read" which isn't even a distinction between his Town and Scum games shows something funny is going on here.

This is incorrect. I'm not always good at copying my town meta. As town I generally push independently of other people. As scum there is frequently a catalyst for my pushes. That's how I perceive the difference in my town and scum games. If you think differently then explain how.

[Gamma Emerald]

Trust me, he's improving. He's town though. I'll let him respond before I comment further.

What do you mean "he is improving"? Why do you feel Gamma's play is sub-par? From what I have seen, Gamma is a pretty competent player. I don't get this "oh, but he's getting better" angle. Like this is why I am SRing Gamma - because I feel like you are trying to say Gamma is just this helpless little player who can't do anything himself. So then you say he "new" and "improving" to say why he is Town. It doesn't make sense to me.

So you're SRing me
based on someone else read on me
but you're pushing me first.
I recall making a tell about someone pushing associative reads in the wrong order, and I don't recall any time where it's failed significantly. Via that tell I'm pretty sure LQ is scum rn.

[Gamma Emerald]

I just went through flavorless. It seems that you have a Scum tell that I will be looking for.

Tell me, I wanna know if it's the one I made for ran

[Ranmaru]

How are you reading Lycan and NSG right now, Gamma?

[Gamma Emerald]

sidenote i feel like it's weird that i'm not obviously town rn? like in the least egotistical way possible (if that's even possible but u know what i mean.) not because my play has been a shining beacon of towniness but because i'm usually left alone on d1. it might be because this is the first game i've purposely joined in a long time that i'm not in with someone i have a history of ez townbloc-ing with but it also kind of makes me feel like there's some kind of agenda because otherwise i'm not a typical textbook town player.

Marquis(4) ~ wgeurts, Cogito Ergo Sum, LicketyQuickety, Dunnstral

like looking at the votes on me gun to my head i'd bare minimum pick lickety as the scum agenda one but that's because i've been seeing mediumlong post after mediumlong post and i know he has the capability to play this way as scum which makes me wary, as well as being opportunistic at the same time while not

too

obvious about it. but i'm still concerned that's too meta oriented as opposed to his actual play here which i haven't had the chance to really read in real time.

idk i kind of expected it to be easier than this? in the selfish way. going for the game with lynch one two scum and done while floating. need more real time reading so i'll read while at work then?

i think this turned out into me admitting i don't currently have any value to bring to town other than that i'm a warm town body who when further heated up becomes a potentially delicious roasted tomato full of juicy squirty accuracy. again in the least egotistical way possible.

i also feel like i'm talking past people but that's my fault. this wasn't the most productive stream of consciousness moment bc my dumb ass decided to start it without even attempting to full read but i'll post it anyway.

god i really need to read

pls don't vote me more i'll def have more time friday bc i dont have a nightlife still

Another post I like, this one seems to have towniness in the prose it uses

@Gamma,

Why did you like this post?

I felt like the way she seemed to be speaking felt towny

Also why are you fetching posts so erratically?

[Ranmaru]

Gamma can you answer? Talk to me bro.

[Gamma Emerald]

I've reread the game to like page 18 or so. Marquis needs rope, badly.

@Ranmaru, what I was noticing about Gamma's Town votes and Scum votes is basically the same kind of thing you talk about in the difference in attitude and fervor for playing. As Town, he's very confident in his votes and he doesn't mess around. In this game, if you look at his votes, they are very "well I guess, not really sure" which looks really bad for him. He also sits on his votes as Town for like, forever. In this game he has voted probably at least twice as often as I would expect. You also rarely see him unvoting in games he is Town. In this game, you seem him unvoting much more frequently.

I looked at these games:
viewtopic.php?p=9919407&user_select%5B% ... 4#p9919407
viewtopic.php?p=9935053&user_select%5B% ... 4#p9935053
viewtopic.php?p=9932701&user_select%5B% ... 4#p9932701
viewtopic.php?p=9935020&user_select%5B% ... 4#p9935020
viewtopic.php?p=9884752&user_select%5B% ... 4#p9884752

I feel like a) this is somewhat fair but explained in a past post but b) there's also some completely wrong meta about my town voting habits. In the past I've been

very

mercurial in my voting. Another player by the name of Realeo has noted I am "trigger-go-lucky" as town. I haven't been that way here because I'm trying to tone down my more erratic play for a logical approach, since I'm kinda sorta trying to impress people. However you say as scum I've voted twice as often as you'd expect. The problem with that is I tend to vote more as town. I feel a good example of this is Mini 1840. Near the end of the day I start waving my vote around as I was trying to get someone else lynched within the blitz time limit. Another example I feel might be good is Open 654. I pushed a lot of people in that game because my opinions kept changing (side note lol I picked two games where I got d1 lynched to demonstrate my town meta). As for unvoting, that's actually a fair point because I definitely remember someone noting that before and being right (think it might have been Infinity324 in some micro), but I will say again that I'm trying not to be crazy with my vote, and with that means taking time to consider where it should go.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Ran I'll get to it when I get to it, I don't like replying out of order as I might get distracted. Best example of that (if you don't mind a long read) is Real Folk Blues Rematch.

[Ranmaru]

That's fair.

[Gamma Emerald]

Also @LQ I suggest you meta dive a few more games because some of those were weird. The Upick their poisons game was a weird game where there wasn't an actual scum faction, and the Valentine's Dance game had a lot of throwing. Plus I haven't been scum for real recently (only scum game I had I got killed in the night I replaced in), so taking recent samples kills the ability to find a scum game.

[Gamma Emerald]

Spoiler:

LQ, Gamma is locktown. He doesn't have enough viable partners. I'm convinced enough that everyone else on the site breaks and scumclaims after being pushed by me yet I don't have any real reason to suspect him anymore with Eddie gone. I can't rationalize his interactions with Eddie as anything besides town. For instance, scum have no business sticking their necks out with that spoiler post unless it served some kind of function. If it can't be solving (because it's suicidal), or distancing (because Eddie wasn't scum), was it muddying waters? There's more to the point ways to do that, and if someone does do that, they aren't spoiling their post. Scum

want

the town to see dirty laundry. This is counter-intuitive to harming postflip associations.

Besides, Rosa has been spewing Gamma town through meta since day 1. Something about being as easy to read as Zachstral the moment they get pushed. It's incidental, but Rosa and Ranmaru are right too.

Where my reads are today: it's day 3 and CES is voting Marquis again. I don't see the case on Marquis beyond peacing out on the early pressure. Just about everything he's said this game has been forgettable. Maybe he's flying under the radar, but I don't give a shit. He's here on day 3 selling the same promise as day 1, with no wagon data in hand, no associatives to be found, doesn't give a shit about interactions, or whether anyone else cares about his reads. Somehow like flies to shit Davsto, Postie, Gamma, Eddie, Dunnstral, LQ, and Ranmaru have all voted there at least once, but he never managed to get this great lynch.

Marquis: 60%

Eddie: 55%
GE: 30%
Postie: 25%
Dunn: 25%

ActionDan: 25%
northsidegal: 20%
LQ: 20%
Davsto: 15%
Lycan: 10%
TSQ: 10%
Ranmaru: 5%

Reminder that Gamma and Postie were shit reads he came up with EoD1 to justify not working with the town. Then when push comes to shove and lynchbait is being served he's okay with lending a hand, for some damn reason. Also Dunnstral is blatant town, but never mind any of that, or the fact that they vote Marquis with him. Definitely upper spectrum scum we're dealing with here.

EddieFenix(4) ~ LicketyQuickety, Postie, Thestatusquo, Davsto
Marquis(3) ~ EddieFenix, Gamma Emerald, Cogito Ergo Sum

like even with me and ran voting lq this is very obviously a dichotomy.

and i still don't know how people are even entertaining lynching me over lq or even eddie for that mastina series of wtf -
i'm explicitly scumreading everyone on my wagon other than CES because it's more easy to believe it stems from him holding a different mafia-the-game mindset and simply not understanding my play while still being town. and even then i know that's nothing i should be using as a townread basis which is why i'm purposely keeping him low priority for now.

About the only thing memorable from Marquis is that he consistently wanted Gamma/LQ with a sprinkle of NSG for most of the game while simultanously townreading CES' nonsense because geriatric.

Meanwhile despite scumreading nsg for never being around, he gave out a truckload of nulls for people for the same reason in 1481.

So is Marquis scum? I could see it, but how can CES know that with such certainty, certainty that suddenly melts away whenever the town locks the lynch for the day? There's never a threat of a tipping point or a push vote if any possibility of a Marquis lynch immediately collapses. That's sus as fuck.

Meanwhile there's Dan, who CES not only talked into scumreading Marquis by EoD1, but he himself was also actively distracting from his own petread. What is the point in any of that? And, sure enough Dan comes on board by the end of the day, probably to show some kind of progress in the game. Whatever.

So, Ranmaru, back to where my reads are today. They're back to the egg.



VOTE: CES

Lynch this shit with fire.

Wait who is Rosa? I'd guess Katyusha/GBT.
Anyway I'm liking the thought behind this and it's honestly making me reconsider my read on Lycan. While I'm discussing this might as well state my thought on NSG as well: I think NSG and Lycan could be scum together, but it's not a lead I feel like pushing currently. I feel like Lycan's push on NSG was kinda trite and like while it feels like a bad way to push a buddy it could also be him making a crap case to push his buddy without any real force behind it.

[Ranmaru]

Anyway I'm liking the thought behind this and it's honestly making me reconsider my read on Lycan.

Can you go into why you are liking it and what your read is on Lycan at the end of that? What is your read on NSG individually?

[Gamma Emerald]

I think the only correct thing you've said so far is that Marquis is a supermarket.

You know, the more I think about it the more I think: "Does Marquis really think they can get away with lurking for 2 days straight as Scum?"

I'm sure there's an aspect of genuine inactivity to it but then it's exacerbated by him being scum. All he's done since his disastrous start is occasionally pop in, post something that's meant to sound vaguely pro-town and peaced out again.

CES

: Can I get two more scum picks for today? Have you re-evaluated your reads? Can you explain your read on Davsto?

My only solid secondary suspicion right now is GE (for, in the words of LQ, his votes; #2106 also looks like it's answering the question "why did Postie survive N1?" rather than "why did Postie die N2?"). I feel like I need to re-read; the Postiekill especially worries me since it suggests scum were happier taking out a slightly scummy player with unknown reads than a more town-looking player with known reads. Davsto has just generally sounded town to me; that's one player I should probably take a slightly closer look at.

Read my rebuttal to LQ's case on me and then tell me what you think.

also looks like it's answering the question "why did Postie survive N1?" rather than "why did Postie die N2?"). I feel like I need to re-read; the Postiekill especially worries me since it suggests scum were happier taking out a slightly scummy player with unknown reads than a more town-looking player with known reads. Davsto has just generally sounded town to me; that's one player I should probably take a slightly closer look at.

Don't think too hard about the NK now

Why not? Lack of NKA is one of the reasons town don't do as well currently.

[Gamma Emerald]

Anyway I'm liking the thought behind this and it's honestly making me reconsider my read on Lycan.

Can you go into why you are liking it and what your read is on Lycan at the end of that? What is your read on NSG individually?

I feel like it's actually making logical considerations. I'd say my read after that is probably just barely a scumlean with a possibility to be bumped into my townreads if he can explain a few things. As for the independent NSG read I'm not sure currently but I'm feeling town rn

[Ranmaru]

Run me through the reasoning for each.

[Gamma Emerald]

Each what?

[Ranmaru]

Each read. Like you have NSG as town, tell me why you think that. Lycan scumlean, tell me why you think that.

[Gamma Emerald]

Each read. Like you have NSG as town, tell me why you think that. Lycan scumlean, tell me why you think that.

NSg's play as I've seen it so far doesn't feel like her scumplay, it feels more like her townplay. When I ISO her I'll have a better read on her most likely than "meta". As for the Lycan read I'm starting to feel better about his content overall but I still feel a bit displeased with him.

[Ranmaru]

Got it. At the top of your head, why does this feel more like her townplay over her scumplay? What would you expect of her scumplay?

[Gamma Emerald]

Got it. At the top of your head, why does this feel more like her townplay over her scumplay? What would you expect of her scumplay?

I feel like she's being muted but engaged. As scum I'd expect her to feel less engaged. Like the game I feel this is most like for her is Marked For Death 2

[Ranmaru]

How is she being muted? Can you give examples?

[Gamma Emerald]

How is she being muted? Can you give examples?

Like she's not expressing herself much
not sure if I can give examples rn, plus if I were to do so I'd be ISOing her at which point I'd be trying to make a more solid read, so imo what's the point