Team Mafia 2020: Normal Game (Endgame)

[RadiantCowbells]

Wow

I literally tried to get Skitter to vote Plum or Tris at one point

You're literally stating the exact opposite of what happened and calling me scum for it.

I have been reevaluating everything besides you: because my reasons to scumread you are iron clad.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also whatever I need to be a thing lol

[RadiantCowbells]

Can we please finish this

No teacher vote Duck.

[RadiantCowbells]

Lynch the fucking duckling who is CONFSCUM or vote me.

[RadiantCowbells]

I have ironclad reasons for scumreading Duckling that can't all be explained here but sufficient to say it is literally 100% confirmed based on stuff that it is impossible for me to tell you.

[RadiantCowbells]

Lynch the fucking duckling who is CONFSCUM or vote me.

But didn’t you just say you didn’t see a duck team without Ari? Doesn’t that make ari CONfSCUM too??

Does it? Doesn't it?
Maybe I was just saying that to see if I could bait Ducks scumpartners to try and bait the lynch back onto Ari.

[RadiantCowbells]

Literally I have a guilty on duck

He's dying today

[RadiantCowbells]

Okay Ari.

I mean, Nancy knows if no one else does that when I say that I mean it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Stop this please D1 guilties are not normal on MS.

This is your scum meta. Please stop.

I am not referring to that kind of guilty

But I know for an 100% fact that Duck is scum and I can't tell you everything relevant so...

I will always have a better duck read then you til he flips scum

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok

Help me end it by killing scum TW and then we don't have to be here together anymore

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok but encourage others to vote with you

[RadiantCowbells]

Yes he did.

[RadiantCowbells]

And it doesn't change the fact that were lynching TW

[RadiantCowbells]

Town-town conflict

[RadiantCowbells]

After RC like strongarmed Ari into voting between us lmfao dude your game is clear as water

Calling it: Plum scum
not just for the rhyme

Here's the thing

I literally didn't call Ari scum for it

In fact I explicitly said to ignore it so...

[RadiantCowbells]

Bros

If I was scum with scumbuddies who were gonna vote the duck
The duck would have been dead a long time ago

Meanwhile Xtoxm 0 poster on me, etc

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm sorry I hurt your enjoyment of this game Plum.

[RadiantCowbells]

I am actually! I wish things could have been different.

[RadiantCowbells]

Remove the duck

I don't know if this is preventable in general sadly.

[RadiantCowbells]

Which is why I don't enjoy mafia.

[RadiantCowbells]

This is unfortunately correct play from both myself and Duck.

[RadiantCowbells]

When I tried giving up control I got scumread and voted.

[RadiantCowbells]

Having faith in that is impossible given that in my experience I just get lynched. I can't think of a single exception even, no game where I tried to be chill as town and didn't get scumread.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's not that I can't defend myself.

It's that people don't care about my defense.

[RadiantCowbells]

Let's not have this argument again I've had it enough.

You. Don't. Know. What. It's. Like. To be scumread no matter what you do.

[RadiantCowbells]

Dude.

I'm obvtown in every sense of the word, but no one sees it.

You're comparing apples to oranges here.

[RadiantCowbells]

No one sees it because it's me and they don't care because whee rc could still be scum

[RadiantCowbells]

I votes all 3 of Plum Tris Teacher in the time between then and now and made short cases for multiple of them. Your portrayal of me is at odds with reality.

[RadiantCowbells]

TW is scum please don't babysit him into towntelling

[RadiantCowbells]

Until he has actually been hammered he is still at risk of not being hammered

[RadiantCowbells]

Hey I am not telling you not to keep trying

But I'm gonna do my best to make sure you still go down.

[RadiantCowbells]

you're literally taking posts that I made and turning them around on me lol

I'm somewhat confused what you're doing

[RadiantCowbells]

like the reasonable thing is my thing
the you know that I know that you're scum is my thing
Even the yeah TW is just openwolfing is my thing lol

[RadiantCowbells]

sigh

[RadiantCowbells]

The ducklings just like

NO U

[RadiantCowbells]

Teacher I feel like you're trying to divert the wagon to Ari while being as subtle as possible about that being your intent and displaying as much enthusiasm for TWs lynch without actually voting him. "Intent to L-1".

[RadiantCowbells]

And, like

You're bringing up Ari/RC associatives that gives Duck an out to vote Ari. And you're waiting for an ico reaction but like... what exactly are you waiting for him to say? You seem like you're just stalling to me.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok. My point is made regardless, when I say as subtle as possible I refer to you talking about it indirectly via casing RC/Ari and via calling me out for thinking Ari/TW SvS to try to hypothetically get Skitter to strongarm me back onto Ari.

[RadiantCowbells]

RC doesn't actually think we're scum together
he's trying to paint a narrative that everyone is trying to create narratives/ways out for me
to try and bury the fact i really obviously don't have partner/s itt

Yes I absolutely have as my #1 goal making enemies of people by calling them potential you scumpartners as scum when I only need to get you killed

Whereas as town, I certainly am not interested in sorting people's interactions with the wagon and trying to find your potential buddies

Hint: your case for plumscum with me doesn't really make sense.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's pretty fucking standard scum play to approach derailing a buddies wagon indirectly, it's not something you dismiss out of hand in the way you are.

[RadiantCowbells]

What I'm saying is that you are trying to push the wagon onto Ari, fundamentally. If you're open about that, you're open about that.

[RadiantCowbells]

If it were TvT

It wouldn't feel like the entire game outside of me and duckling opposes the 1v1

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean. If you consider only the posts that I was responding to in real time I think that it's a perfectly reasonable take.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like declaring intent to L1 someone and then only talking about things designed to derail said wagon in favor of another is always going to ping me.

This feels eerily similar to what I've been screaming for a few dozen pages.

Yawn.

[RadiantCowbells]

Subtle may not be the right word there but I think that you should be able to understand what pinged me in that posting and why. More, expressing lip service to being willing to L1 Duck sometime in the future then making actions designed to make Ari the lynch. It's more the fact that you gave intent but I read a lot of unwillingness so

[RadiantCowbells]

And why can’t this be applied to you and Ari pray tell?

It hypothetically could.
But I'm not scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yea, it’s a wording/tone issue more than a substance issue. Like I get what you’re saying and am aware I am defending duc- I have reservations about his lynch even if I prefer it to yours. It’s just that I think you overstated it in a weird way - “casing” when I had one offhand sentence responding to tw’s read (not as an affirmative point) and “as subtlety as possible” when I don’t think I’ve been subtle at all.

I'm not sure how to respond to this besides to say that this is how I see things when I'm trying to get a wagon and people are fighting it. I could probably cite numerous examples of me reacting in a fashion that you would similarly perceive as 'accurste but overstated' in situations like this. Would you like me to find some?

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm thinking about it btw

[RadiantCowbells]

no how dare u bad duck no breadcrumbs

[RadiantCowbells]

Btw

Now THIS is podracing (spamming)

What was getting a lot of complaints before had us as median game length

[RadiantCowbells]

due respect rc i think the complaint was that you've consistently had like >25% of the thread (closer to 1/3 iirc but haven't checked in a while)

like
you are spamming
not we are spamming

Except as I showed it I wasn't spamming this game would be a very short game and I can't find scum in that.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok teacher here's my answer and I stopped for a second to reevaluate it when TW voted Plum but I think that while Tris may be scum (somewhat unlikely) no one else is scum on the wagon. I also think this is true regardless of whether TW is town or not.

[RadiantCowbells]

I also don't think that's exactly a spicy read

Maths out of her scum range

I don't think Plums little bit about I want to sheep you but I don't want to reward you for ruining the game comes from scum

Skitter like can win if she's scum

Tris, idk. Slight townlean but definite scum potential and this is true if TW is town or scum.

Where I'm actually re-looking is and I'm glad Ico brought it up again Flopz as a TW partner because he called TW out and bad duck no breadcrumbsed him then immediately voted Aristophanes.

[RadiantCowbells]

As a relevant aside, RC, I do think you're more likely Town than not here and moreover I think you in general have charisma that I respond to very strongly. Like in Perfect Masquerade, I found myself sheeping all your cases because all your cases felt really really good to me. I keep feeling the same here, and hell, you may be right on a lot of your cases, but goddamn is it frustrating to feel a strong agreement with cases from the guy who is also actively destroying the gamestate

which is what you are doing

This is umm

A lot harder to produce as scum than it might appear

[RadiantCowbells]

That said someone mentioned Plum was good at talking and if Plum is known for a deep scumrange this isn't the best argument for clearing a deep scumrange player. But it's out of most players'

[RadiantCowbells]

Like with really good scumplayers you're not looking for what they CAN'T do as scum

You're looking for what they wouldn't do as scum

And if you could do that then it makes sense to do it but if she can't she's just town, if that makes sense?

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok does anyone not feel that TW is being pretty intellectually dishonest with regards to his reducing Plums post to likeable but annoying as hell?

[RadiantCowbells]

I did that a very long time ago.

[RadiantCowbells]

No, because scum are trying to win and sometimes townies do things that simply don't make sense from an informed perspective if they're good enough to understand the game. For example I said that FL was town in the Plotinus newbie because if he were scum he wouldn't be lurking. He absolutely had the power to lurk if he chose, but he just wouldn't be.

[RadiantCowbells]

Wow

FL certainly has a microscopic scumrange

These takes are off the fuckin heezy

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean.

Everyone has a narrow scumrange

You just have to be looking at the right metrics.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll give you an answer: because he doesn't really have scumreads.

This is true regardless of his alignment.

[RadiantCowbells]

lol

[RadiantCowbells]

Were you just fishing to see if this was, like, an OkaPoka in BP situation where I was pushing you to get you to fk off but I'd unvote if you unvoted? It's not lol.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm actually more interested in saying more about what was brought up before

You can read fantastic scum players off of stupidly simple metrics.

Postie in 2015 determined that, in a year that I had an 100% winrate as scum, my alignment was determinable by the amount of times I swore.

To be specific, if it was below a certain number / posts I was conftown, if it was above I was 66% likely to be scum.

The trick to reading good scum players is to not read them based on what they're good at doing.

[RadiantCowbells]

And that's not because I literally can't not swear as scum. It's because I wouldn't not swear as scum because it was what I did. There was a very infamous spreadsheet from 2015 that people have probably forgotten about in Year Of Our Lord 2k20 that used that metric and figured out if I was scum. I'm sure that if you spend enough time really trying to figure out any top tier scum player there is something that sets them apart that they aren't doing consciously and that they'll not figure out if you lynch them for it repeatedly. You just can't take down a top tier scum player by trying to apply cookie cutter metrics or policy lynching them because they beat your metrics and they know how to convince towns not to PL them.

[RadiantCowbells]

Alright taking a punt
Exhaustion at the fallout of the rc/tw thing? Ari is an empathetic dude he may have felt drained by the exhausting game state?

This by the way is like

Taking Ari town and trying to reverse engineer it

Also there's the way simpler answer that, like, who Ari voted in his scumreads didn't really matter because Duckling was the lynch anyway

[RadiantCowbells]

Icos not asking it to read Ari, I'm assuming.

He's asking it to determine whether your townread on him was genuine: have you considered all possible angles. Your answer doesn't signal that you have.

This isn't super complicated lol.

I'm more interested in a theory discussion right now, does your team have any thoughts on my theory posts above?

[RadiantCowbells]

Only this is pretty much RC to the heart. If you (we in general) lynch him here for causing chaos, then we'd have to do that every single game he's in. Because this is RC. He does this.

And I'm not fully convinced you actually scumread him.

Then

Why don't you think he's scum...?

[RadiantCowbells]

Especially the worst's last post in that spoiler really bothers me

Hey I think TW is scum

So let's lynch Ari!

[RadiantCowbells]

I would have been somewhat OK with the worst being lynched prior to flopz voting there

It gives a ton of information about half the game (RC), and potentially solves half of the game as well (RC reads). That's not something to sneeze at.

But flopz voting there is so disgusting that I'm willing to stand up for the worst here lol

Sorry what lol

Flopz has had TW sub null since literally his sub in

[RadiantCowbells]

I think math might be right about Ico/TW

[RadiantCowbells]

I think math might be right

Math sees this, hyperventilates, falls out of chair, dies of shock.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like Ico calls TW scum in 4 different ways, lines up agreeing to lynch Duck behind an Ari townflip, then calls Xtoxm Ari Bella (the 3 lynchbaitiest slots in game imo) all scum in the space of a few posts.

[RadiantCowbells]

Behind an Ari scumflip sorry

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean that's not a modern read from you but I doubted it at the time and honestly he is a better example of someone doing what I accused teacher of doing

[RadiantCowbells]

Intent for 10 minutes before RCEs intent.

[RadiantCowbells]

Only this is pretty much RC to the heart. If you (we in general) lynch him here for causing chaos, then we'd have to do that every single game he's in. Because this is RC. He does this.

And I'm not fully convinced you actually scumread him.

Spoiler:

Like fuck asking explicitly for reads

I know Auro read and you claim Nancypants read

And you're claiming that neither of them expressed a single read???

Like not for you to give us explicitly, like should at least have like been Hmm I think x is town or y is scum

Him not even bringing up his reads but pressuring you to post in the game for the team is insane as town tbh. Like why read your game and end up with 0 reads???

Lol yeah.

Nancy also has been reading by Ari’s own posts.

The fact she hasn’t had an opinion whether she can or can’t read me is baaaaaad.

he's not a fucking town investigative
he knows he isn't getting lynched and wants an excuse not to get nk'd

Literally the worst logic:::::

RC claimed investigative... because he wanted an excuse to not get NKed

Let me repeat that.

RC claimed investigative because he wanted an excuse to not get NKed.

And, uh, this isn't the D1 Lynch? How?

literally the entirety of cancel food thinks you are scum and wants you dead lmfao

Caught up to page 93 ish

Posts of interest in the spoiler

I'm actually fine lynching Ari
If that flips scum, TW is next

Especially the worst's last post in that spoiler really bothers me

VOTE: Ari

Sorry like what?

Calls TW's posts scummy a bunch of times, then says he's ok voting Ari and he'd be fine voting TW if Ari flips scum despite not really pairing the two together?

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok I actually bothered to meta plum
Result: she is well within scumrange.

[RadiantCowbells]

ig I think that Worsties random ok let's lynch plum shenanigans is more likely to be his partner than anyone else

So in order of confidence I think the scumteam is

TW/Ico/Plum with Tris Flopz Xtoxm Ari as the honorary mentions

Everyone else I believe to be town

[RadiantCowbells]

Fire at will cap'n

[RadiantCowbells]

Don't like revolve the rest of the game around my reads

But don't ignore them either

[RadiantCowbells]

I simply said more likely

I'm not literally saying Plum is guiltied far from it.

I simply think she is the third most likely right now just based off of that and the TW/Plum associatives that I believe I've already commented on.

Either way I am a lot more *in* on TW/Ico than on Plum

[RadiantCowbells]

Like that's not my only reason and as you may recall I voted Plum at one point myself.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like it's not a power read and I'll be first to admit that

But that's what I have come up with at this time

[RadiantCowbells]

Add Bella to the not happy w/ list

Still happy with the remaining 5

[RadiantCowbells]

(RC RCE Skitter30 Mathblade Teacher)

[RadiantCowbells]

But uh teacher is a tier below the others

But honestly I'm just tired and don't want to try to solve anymore

[RadiantCowbells]

This 1v1 has taken a lot out of me

[RadiantCowbells]

Plum doesn't really feel all that likely so it's probably wrong and I'm fine w/ that

[RadiantCowbells]

{RC}
{RCE Skitter Mathblade}
{Teacher}
{Ari, Flopz} (Flopz heavily contingent on Icoscum, drop him lower if Icotown)
{Xtoxm} - null line
{Plum, Tris, Bella}
{byeconeum}
{lalaladucks}

[RadiantCowbells]

Final thought:

bad duck no breadcrumbs

[RadiantCowbells]

Saying "where the fuck are your teammates" when like a half dozen slots said you were scum but are refusing to vote you isn't quite what you want to be doing here.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also I'm pretty sure he's trying to townspew Ico by repeatedly putting him as locktown and discredit the Skitter townreads by repeatedly hedging on her.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also if you were town you would have just selfhammered and said to lynch me, tbh.

[RadiantCowbells]

Until TW is hammered I am gonna be making sure that he gets hammered.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's been a bloody struggle to get this far.

[RadiantCowbells]

Almost nothing TW says can get people to unvote as this day has to end.

Almost is the operative word.
I don't like almost.

[RadiantCowbells]

Until TW is hammered I am gonna be making sure that he gets hammered.

friendly reminder this has been the last 60 pages for me from the moment I called RC out. This is not a towny sentiment.

Ok off to work. I suspect I'm gone by the time I return.

It's neither towny nor scummy, it is what it is. And you know that it is what it is, so if I'm so obviously scum why do you have to portray behavior you know to be NAI as scummy?

This is also a complete lie, amusingly.

Over the last 60 pages I have voted and seriously pushed Aristophanes as your buddy, Plum as scum independently, Tris as scum independently, and done my best to give meaningful thoughts on the entire playerlist.

Most of the last 60 pages for you has been talking solely about me. For a large part of it you simply refused to give reads because "RC scum don't know buddies". Even now your thoughts on other players are extremely barebones and unsupported. You were trying to force this over Ari. You switched for literally 1 page to vote Plum and that's it.

So tell me, who does this really apply to? And why are you using the same brush that paints yourself to paint someone you believe to be scum? Why are you literally c/ping my arguments against you 30 pages later as if they're your own?

[RadiantCowbells]

Only this is pretty much RC to the heart. If you (we in general) lynch him here for causing chaos, then we'd have to do that every single game he's in. Because this is RC. He does this.

And I'm not fully convinced you actually scumread him.

I mean your own top townread supposedly

Has pointed out to you you're pushing me for things you know to be NAI and that he isn't sure you actually believe it

Which funnily enough is the core of my original case on you, that you simply do not believe that my play here is scum and Enter is no longer on your team to push a policy lynch on me. People you townread have later ended up agreeing with basically all of the points I made against scum you that you still vaguely call misrepresentations without citing specifically.

You are scum, bad duck no breadcrumbs.

[RadiantCowbells]

Please RC stop.

Are you familiar with the book Ender's Game?

[RadiantCowbells]

Love you as well Duck.

[RadiantCowbells]

I had a negative result and don't think there is any gain from sharing it.
Think that there's a reasonably high probability that scum simply elected not to kill to make sure I couldn't get a guilty before I was lynched today.
(and before someone says that would add credence to my claim, no not really because someone who scumreads me is going to point that out and say it's scum me trying to spew town)

[RadiantCowbells]

It's your decision collectively.
I thought that there was no possibility that TW would threaten to policy lynch me, repeatedly vote my townreads, and call NSG's reads bad then call me out for trying to tilt him out of the game
I also thought that there was no possibility that TW would make the post he did about my retaining information when, like, I've demonstrated repeatedly across games that that's just a skill I have
accusing it of being pre-written felt like a way to pre-emptively discriminate the fact that it was generally, like, a towny thought process and I still feel like my reasons to tie TW/Ari were very objectively reasonable
He also just, like, blatantly lied? I had voted multiple people, his big talking point was I was going after him and he literally had to drag me back to him when my stress with the situation in general made me vote elsewhere.
he was simultaneously using me not voting him against me in the sense of "oh RC is only trying to go after me" then turning around when I do vote him and saying "RC doesn't care about going after anyone else"

In the end I guess the only answer that adds up is that he just didn't care about the content of the game, his team just saw "play to win" in this sense as minimizing my input because I might be scum.
I'm going to not post further for at least a few days, I won't contest my lynch if that's what is happening because I am still extremely unhappy about this game but I also want to give reads so please don't actually lynch me.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's on Teacher. I don't think outing this did town any good. I also think it's a lot more likely than you do that scum no killed: me getting a guilty completely clusterfucks scum gameplan of leaving me alive.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't think my play was scummy at all, I think anyone who scumread me either then or now is objectively a bad player, I don't think I broke MS meta in any reasonable way, if you're going to keep trying to lord this over me you should just vote me.

Sorry if you were hoping to use this event to put me in my place but I really have no issues dying so you're not going to get anything out of threatening me with a lynch.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm going to keep missing the point. You want to talk reads I'm happy to talk reads. I am down to a reasonably narrow set of possible scum atp and Plum/Ari are both in them and I see what you're seeing there on both.
I am reluctant to give my final reads at this time because I think it will give scum a lot of information on whether they should be trying to take the lynch on me or not.

[RadiantCowbells]

I do not think that reading people off of the TW votes is a good idea unless you think that scum were trying to keep Aristophanes alive.
Also someone mentioned this so I'll bring it up: the reason I targeted Teacher was that I thought that he was likely to make the kill if he was scum whereas most other targets were crapshoots.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's the part where he desperately wants to lynch scum (you) and is voting to end the toxic day pretty clearly. Like, I refuse to believe you are thinking about what you are saying at all.

@rc, that's fucking ironic considering you are the reason we have literally no usable info from the end of day one. Also like...the fact that we couldn't get an Ari lynch for love not money while we lynched town doesn't worry you? Really?

I didn't say Ari isn't scum. I said that reading people off of TW votes is largely meaningless if Ari is town anyway so extrapolating from that only has a purpose if you think he's scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

I was 100% serious, it's what I would do as scum because I think it would be reasonable to assume I have at worst 1/6 odds of hitting scum and if I hit scum and get them lynched and then scum get forced to kill me, the damage done is staggering in terms of both a lost mislynch on me as well as a lost scum member and being forced to nightkill me anyway.

I don't think evens matters a whole lot, I have no killed in situations like this more than a few times as scum, I think it's the safe play from scum PoV since if they already know I'm the investigative they don't have to fear being ferreted out by a cop or whatever if they skip nights.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like you're seeing this from the point of view of town who doesn't know that I'm town. If you're scum who knows that I'm town it is a massive and unnecessary gamble to take if you're assuming I get lynched the next day if you holster.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm saying that me getting a guilty dramatically reduces scum's chances of winning and that the reduction in scum's EV is probably greater from risking that than leaving anyone else alive if they're assuming that I'm the lynch anyway. I think there is only one player/slot in this game that scum are likely to see removing as a priority and if they think I'm the lynch, well, that slot doesn't meaningfully impact the game being alive for an extra day. But okay. I don't see the point in trying to convince you guys of this.

[RadiantCowbells]

That depends if you think I was trying to hit scum or trying to hit someone who I could get meaningful information out of an inno from.
I targeted you because I thought you had some scum equity and were disproportionately liable to make the nightkill if you were scum.

If I was looking for a claimed target that wouldn't face any scrutiny there's a long list of names.

[RadiantCowbells]

How you would describe your scum meta or how I would describe your scum meta?
How you would describe your scum meta is not lying but just warping the truth so you come across as sincere since you're ~telling the truth~ and getting away with shit because of that.
I don't really want to describe your scum meta as I see it.

i'm a little nervous that he's doing that to get people to back off him today given yesterday

also @rc if your'e town and scum are that scared of your guilty they just .... nk you ?

I mean, if they believe that I'm a free lynch the next day, why do that?

i'm a little nervous that he's doing that to get people to back off him today given yesterday

also @rc if your'e town and scum are that scared of your guilty they just .... nk you ?

I don't even think my defeatism is AI given half of my team has flaked and I'm just over this game tbh

also isn't a detective roughly the same strength as tracker or am i mixing it up with psychologist?

isn't the one where you get a positive result if someone performed an nk ...

so a detective inno n1 doesn't mean that much really

correct. detective inno is worth nothing unless you think someone is disproportionately likely to make the nightkill as scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's the best I could do with the role because I wanted to target someone that was high on my previously given readslist but could still be scum.

I figured there's no way that, say, a Plum scumteam actually has her kill?

[RadiantCowbells]

Skitter30

[RadiantCowbells]

I can't say that I'm not surprised you're not voting me rn skitter

not wanting to poke a gift horse in the mouth but I can see it

Ari/Tris/Plum is still the *obvious* answer

[RadiantCowbells]

I can see it onwards is pedit
in case that causes confusion

ot wanting to poke a gift horse in the mouth but

pedit:

I can see it

Ari/Tris/Plum is still the *obvious* answer

[RadiantCowbells]

It won't derail the gamestate, I have no intentions of preventing my own lynch atp so if that's the only reason not to vote me then you should just vote me.

i'm miserable atm.

[RadiantCowbells]

like i said

nsg has not posted in discord in several days
gif hasn't posted in over a week

[RadiantCowbells]

I would vote Plum but I don't want to poison the well because I feel like if I support the wagon it's less likely to go through tbh.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Plum

I shall follow you milady to whatever bitter end.

[RadiantCowbells]

That was the vibe I was going for tbh

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok, lol

[RadiantCowbells]

You uh, do recall that I suggested we vote Plum yesterday as they were an overlapping scumread of both of us
then you said that you were going to BoP me on the flip and I freaked out and went back on to Duckling because I didn't want to risk being lynched for a Plum flip?

This isn't sheeping you, this is a read I have had for a very very long time that I backed off on for a short while because of a post that I later determined to be in her scum range

[RadiantCowbells]

Because I voted her

[RadiantCowbells]

sounds good leggo

[RadiantCowbells]

hi feeling very conflicted

i'm raybells

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm just looking forward to roasting the shit out of duck's reasoning for me being scum tbh

[RadiantCowbells]

that's a really confusing assessment of my play given that outside of continuing to scumread someone i already scumread i have done nothing to try to get on your good side

[RadiantCowbells]

the worst’s plum case hogwash.

this is a really confusing thing for you to post lol

[RadiantCowbells]

also why are you citing a post from page 15 as if it's relevant on page 132

In post 3261, RadiantCowbells wrote:
I would vote Plum but I don't want to poison the well because I feel like if I support the wagon it's less likely to go through tbh.

In post 3272, RadiantCowbells wrote:
VOTE: Plum

I shall follow you milady to whatever bitter end.

And... I was willing to vote there yesterday. Should I like, not vote my scumreads that align with you so that you don't think I'm trying to get on your good side?

Hint: your case for plumscum with me doesn't really make sense.

yeah. keywords: with me.

[RadiantCowbells]

as in, same reason that Eddie's RC/Bella are SvS because Bella is voting someone voting the person RC is voting is a terrible read. Doesn't mean that they can't be scum independently?

[RadiantCowbells]

you do... realize... that when I say I want to vote someone but I'm scared it'll poison the well and then I decide yolo I'll vote them anyway that's not a change of read, that's a change of heart on not voting my SR?

[RadiantCowbells]

Because every post is relevant.

You yourself said that you did something in the past.

i literally said exactly the opposite, that reads early in the day are irrelevant and only the people that you actually want to lynch at eod are relevant lol

[RadiantCowbells]

can you explain what exactly is so suspicious of my timing like 10 posts later? do you think something mathblade said led scum me to decide it was the go time of go times

[RadiantCowbells]

i'll look at plum next since that's the wagon that's growing right now

teacher - I am going to tentatively give some points to for his explanation for stating a preference to Xtoxm over Flopz wagon his morning (that statement made shortly before Flopz's new posts)

What? why would he get points for that. this seems like a weird reason to take someone off the list of possible lynches.

VOTE: the worst

Did you have any other, more specific thoughts on Plum?

[RadiantCowbells]

We should 100% vote who RC did not want us to vote yesterday and the fact a majority of town scumreads Ari is a bonus.


We should 100% vote who RC did not want us to vote yesterday and the fact a majority of town scumreads Ari is a bonus.

dude.

i led the original ari wagon

i literally had him at l-1 then got scared bc nsg wasn't sure he was scum

[RadiantCowbells]

hey skitter you should definitely vote me voting me is the best decision ever i think you should be voting me

is it correct to vote me?

Spoiler: Annie

[RadiantCowbells]

i assign 4000 kPa to your decision to vote me

[RadiantCowbells]

math your recount of the game is completely at odds with reality

[RadiantCowbells]

i genuinely feel obligated to be less generally nice and friendly towards you to avoid you feel like you're being pocketed atp.

[RadiantCowbells]

idk what to say to it either

we have really weird interactions in this game tbh

[RadiantCowbells]

Aristophanes (4): Flopz, RadiantCowbells, skitter30, MathBlade

btw the real ari wagon that almost got him lynched

yeah flopz voted but it was all me pushed so...

[RadiantCowbells]

Math you know that killing you solely on the basis of you are the biggest roadblock to an easy RC mislynch is a pretty good plan? Ari doesn't have to be scum for scum to NK you

[RadiantCowbells]

Ari

weren't you in civ mafia

[RadiantCowbells]

guess not nvm.

[RadiantCowbells]

I hate hate hate Ari tonally but I'm not sure if he actually posts things that are likely to come from scum.
It's especially annoying because like, the other people I think have decent scum equity all have awful associatives with him
Plum was trying to pin Flopz as scum with Ari specifically and skipped voting Ari to vote TW at EOD, so did Tris, and they as a set of 3 make so much sense
but yeah yikes.

alsolol

[RadiantCowbells]

regardless atp I can't lead town to victory on my own because my credibility as town and competent is shot, at the risk of further pocketing accusations I think that either Skitter carries town or town doesn't win and I like her reads so yeah.

[RadiantCowbells]

Math I'm playing support for town, you just don't like it because I'm backing up Skitter not you.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ico/Math/RCE/Bella

Ico/Bella/Skitter tier 1
Math/RCE tier 2

Also math a little hypocritical to complain about my game taking overness then to threaten to PL me for not supporting your wagon

[RadiantCowbells]

Look uh

I'm not entirely following and because of your vagueness I'll just be direct

Did you jailkeep or variant Aristophanes last night into the no kill

[RadiantCowbells]

The problem with you is your variant of reasons can be anything from

I literally have a mechanical guilty on Ari that you're not voting to

Ari softed Odd-Night Jailkeeper when he said something was odd and is now claiming vig instead and lied and is therefore scum for reasons

I cannot take you at your word for reasons, if you have a mechanical reason to think he's scum outside of you being bulletproof and surviving then please share it because otherwise you've really given me nothing to go on.

There's a very narrow pool of potential Ari partners and we're voting in them anyway, so...

[RadiantCowbells]

Because my read on you was that I didn't think your associatives with Duck were likely to be SvS. I didn't think scumbuddy you would double down on yes I was absolutely hard defending Duck in that situation when called out for it.

You're still ~null but I have 6 slots above null atm

[RadiantCowbells]

My team suggested I leave the thread and I am busy today.

Anyone not voting/pushing Ari looks really bad to me because ~reasons~

@Ico sure it can be talked about but when I have Titus and BB agreeing that Ari is scum and practically everyone does they just won’t vote it means you’ve hit scum.

You might be the only person who townreads Ari.

@RC it’s not policy. It’s showing you are scum.

The most likely case is you lied about being an investigative
The most likely case is you had to save Ari when I started working with you.
You are the glue stopping Ari from happening by pocketing Skitter.
Plus there’s the whole TW says you’re scum. I agree with that my team doesn’t care whether you are town or scum.
I see worlds where you could be town but if you won’t lynch scum I don’t care.

Do you not see how this is the exact same kind of thing you spent all of yesterday berating me for?

If you case Ari me and Skitter and Ico will read it but this is a supreme example of the kind of read from you that doesn't make sense and goes nowhere a la RC TW scumteam

I'm trying to not be divisive any more than necessary but you're kind of bullying a bunch of people to vote with you after being mad at me for such

[RadiantCowbells]

Also pocket is such a buzzword and such a terrible way to read me

When I rolled town in 2058 where NSG was also present I think I spent like 3 dozen posts just trying to engage her on trivial things and make sure she got as into the game as possible and such

That's not an outlier and me going out of my way to be friends is at worst not a scumtell for me. Especially when I'm trying to move past D1

[RadiantCowbells]

My problem with this game is I'm pretty sure that if Ari isn't scum with exactly Plum Tris the obvious answers don't hold all the scum because there's too many not-team associatives in the scumpool. Like I find it hard to see Flopz scum with Plum and Tris? The blanks are easier to incorrectly fill in for you guys by assuming that I'm scum but from the point of view of knowing that I'm town something doesn't add up unless we concede that Plum considers herself deepwolf carry and has no issues casually throwing her scummates under the bus.

[RadiantCowbells]

Which is another reason I'm reluctant to fight to keep my slot alive, I think there's value in knowing that you're wrong on me and that TW team reads aren't generally worth treating as gospel

[RadiantCowbells]

Because people will stop listening to you and stop basing their reads on incorrect associatives with me and I also really really don't want to have to play mafia anymore.

[RadiantCowbells]

And that's not personal

Just

You pushed TW RC Ari yesterday
You're pushing Ari RC ??? Today

Everything else you've been wrong on doesn't exactly make me keen to drop everything and vote Ari

I guess I forgot Xtoxm existed and can be slotted into any of the scum slots so that's a less good arg for existence of deepwolves

Meanwhile I agree most things the core townblock excluding you says so like I'm not too keen on dropping that to make you happy

[RadiantCowbells]

The townblock plis me

Like all of RC Ico Skitter

Think that Ari is a scum that merits death before endgame but none of us would exactly pick it as the most likely scum today

And the person we're voting has possibly the highest odds of being SvS with Ari in the game save maybe Tris

We don't need more reasons

We need you to lay out exactly why he's scum because I'm not averse to voting him and I don't think anyone else is either

You just need to give us something?

[RadiantCowbells]

That should be a slot*

[RadiantCowbells]

Something you're really going to have to clarify for me here
I thought you were like super townreading you yesterday and you agreed with me that Duck was scum; if you agree with that scumread and he said you/plum were probably scum EoD, why are you sheeping him on it?
Furthermore, if you think that Aristophanes is scum why don't you think that Mathblade made sense as a kill target solely on the basis that Mathblade was killing Ari through hell or high water?

[RadiantCowbells]

Wait you literally think that I'm scum as well given you're not opposed to my lynch, so you think that Mathblade is literally 2/2 on scum (he's been vague on a third) yet his theories and timelimes are all over the place. What?

[RadiantCowbells]

This is like when Duck came in and complained that all my scumreads were the pile of null reads and he didn't like my townread progression then immediately sheeped me on my all my townreads but in reverse order.

[RadiantCowbells]

I wonder how viable Teacher/Flopz/Plum is because that's the only scumteam that atp has nothing pointing against it.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't think you ever said that you thought it was SvT yesterday. You said your top scumreads were Ari and TW, yes. You also called out some of the same stuff I did as scummy.
If you agreed with me that it was scummy, then I find it surprising that you're willing to vote me as opposed to thinking that I was town who had justified reasons to scumread town.

[RadiantCowbells]

Duck I'm so sorry, I hope you have all the loaves of bread you can ever desire up there in Duck Heaven. I'm really surprised on the treatment of RC atm, I would've thought that there would be a lot more push for the seal to get clubbed; sth I wouldn't be that opposed to especially considering TW's last words.

This feels really bad. You should either scumread me, or you should not. If you scumread me, you should be going after me and encouraging this. If not, you should townread me.
This feels like you're expressing your general support for it but don't want to push the wagon if it's not already something that has popular support.

And wouldn't be that opposed to is... weird?

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not entirely sure it's scummy, mind you. But it's objectively weird. I dunno what to do about it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Can you further clarify where the "minimum one scum between RC, TW, Ari" comes from?
Also if you have me as like, not likely scum, why are you surprised that other people aren't going after me

[RadiantCowbells]

Thanks for talking to me.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not reading for sense, I'm reading for alignment, and I do think you're more likely to be town than I thought you were before this engagement, which tbh raises ugly questions.

[RadiantCowbells]

Plum/Tris/Teacher?

[RadiantCowbells]

Mostly because as an individual I don't scumread Ari despite how bad the associatives look? Idk.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yea. I have thought son the other things, but want to reread that on a desktop as I get more familiar with Tris and Plum whom I don’t really k ow. So that was the squirrel that ran cross my mind as an interesting pop in and disappear but.

I’m really liking the discussion, especially of the slots we need more content from: tris, plum, Ari (posts =! Content)

This is your reminder that nobody has mentioned xtomx since start of D2.

@skit - what’s your take on me?

@Ico - you quoted ari on me, but not Bella or my reactions. Thoughts on that?

Of 4 mentions of Tris in Teacher's iSO, 3 are accompanied by Plum. I'm not exactly sure what that means but it probably means something.

[RadiantCowbells]

I agree on Ico blade RCE and skit. I don’t see what you’re seeing w Bella but others do so I’m willing to give that time. I think Ari has a ton of RC associatives you are weirdly discounting in that read. I’d love for you to split the hairs in the plum/tris//flopz pool because I think there’s one scum there but don’t have hairs to split myself.

[RadiantCowbells]

I feel like if Plum is scum she did a fantastic job of talking to me in a way that made me not want to lynch her.

[RadiantCowbells]

Sorry I'm spamming again, I'll stop unless anyone addresses me directly.

[RadiantCowbells]

I’m fine with an ari/RC alternative. My plan for the day was to push plum to get more investment then try to wheel it back onto one of them anyways.

I don’t like the shade from Ari. I thought my eod was pretty obviously town, or as much so as I get. Duck, blade and RC - heck even Bella - seemed to agree. So aris opening posting with that and lack of depth continued the inadequacy I felt there yesterday, even if at times it felt like it was going to be too easy to lynch.

Just going to point this out in response to that, aka you were pretty clear that you wanted ari/RC lynches today.
I mean I think that it's actually pretty forgivable because I think a lot of us have lumped Tris/Plum together at different points in time you're just... a little more extreme on that.

[RadiantCowbells]

This question depends on Plum's alignment.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think that if Plum is town and Aristophanes is also town, they would much rather discredit me and embolden you than flip Ari.
I think that if Plum is scum and Aristophanes is town, they would absolutely prefer to lynch Aristophanes and they would see discrediting you as a negative rather than a positive.

[RadiantCowbells]

Again, I think it's most likely regardless of whether Ari is scum or not that you were shot because scum counted on Skitter powerlynching me and thought that you would be an obstacle to getting me lynched.

I'm still like fine with Ari dying at some point just that if he dies now I think that town loses because I'll die the next day and town is in lylo with very little to go on.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also I think there's basically a 0% chance of an Ari scumteam that doesn't include AT LEAST 1/2 Tris/Plum.

[RadiantCowbells]

Pls don't call it a scumslip because I didn't say 'died and flipped town.'

[RadiantCowbells]

Because of my postcount I won't say anything unless you directly address me so let me know if there's something you want my response to.

[RadiantCowbells]

You really think I'm confscum?

Can you just like vote me out of the game rather than making incorrect reads based on associatives with me then?

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok

VOTE: RC

Can we just end the day then

You're not going to get anything out of sorting based on false associatives.

[RadiantCowbells]

No because if my lynch happens it'll be effectively unreadable because there's no way to sort bad town from scum on it.

like i think you're like fl in that you care about your scumgame more than your towngame

this is the exact opposite of true

I would never have posted as much if I were scum I would never have cared this much on D1 if I were scum

My attitude here is that I think that TW's teams play towards me should be punished to deter it from happening in the future and I doubt that I will survive the day unless it's what scum want as a result of it so trying to force myself to stay alive is anti-town.

[RadiantCowbells]

@RC did you ever answer the question of whether you still think there’s a vig?

This is a pointless question

I thought it would be a reasonably possible thing in TM to give town a vig to antisynergize with me

I never thought it was true

Skitter I want to move on and if the game is going to scumread me forever the game has to move on; why do you call me confscum then act like me trying to resolve the issue is an unhelpful thing

[RadiantCowbells]

Everyone expects me to jump through a bunch of stupid hoops to prove that in town and to not get lynched and to not push reads in certain ways because town can't know that I'm not scum and I'm just over it.

Please let me out of the game if I'm confscum to you

[RadiantCowbells]

I’m not going to comment on the tw-you cluster until after game, but I’ll leave a marker that I disagree with your interpretation of his statements.

Man

TWs play was always about trying to quarantine me and prevent me from having control of the game because I'm good at scum and can't be trusted.

Any other reading doesn't align with reality.

[RadiantCowbells]

Teacher you're scum stop posting at me.

[RadiantCowbells]

Your reads are truly awesome.

If you judge a fish by it's ability to climb a tree it all forever seem like it lacks talent in your eyes.

I do not function in gamestates where people don't give me the freedom to do my thing within reason and TW was shutting down anything I tried to do from like page 5.

[RadiantCowbells]

I never said I knew there was a vig.

I said that being a detective I suspected there was a vig.

It's a very very reasonable thing to suspect with the info I have.

Leave me alone about it.

[RadiantCowbells]

No I said that there is above average chance of there being one.

That was true at the time. The fact that there isn't doesn't make me scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

Do I have to start flooding to get you guys to let me have my peace from this game?

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok you have it on ~good authority~

Math town should lynch you tomorrow not Ari.

[RadiantCowbells]

Sorry like I need support to function

Not a bunch of people trying to shut me down before I started going because it's too risky to let scum RC have any control over town.

And regardless in every game this year I mislynched D1 I caught scum D2 but obviously can't have that slot having control of the game when I gave TW a free pass to D2, gotta 1v1 me for having scumreads you don't like

[RadiantCowbells]

I want to puke every time I open this thread and see a new player calling me scum with what I've done so far. I want out.

[RadiantCowbells]

You're insane if you think that I'm scum and leaving me alive is a good idea, I've talked my way out of two players being conftown with the setup confirming no godfather existed. If you respect my scum game enough to think I am capable of everything I've done this game so far as scum, every single minute you leave me alive is gamethrowing.

This is a really bad stance.