TM2020 - Large Theme - Gay Mafia IV: TOWN WIN

[chennisden]

Hmm

I actually feel like this is probably scum

VOTE: Gammagooey

[chennisden]

I think this style of scumplay basically leaves people going "Wow, you were scum.... okay no comment" and really just lends to paranoia at the end rather than learning to deal with this style of play

I'd love to see people learn how to play against this kind of scumplayer. Especially since they don't give a shit about their tone and can really easily pick other players' tone apart

[chennisden]

I don't think I'd be upset to see people learning how to counter it even though it puts me at a direct disadvantage. Perhaps it'd make scumplay more exciting

Also hopefully this is obvious but I don't out my whole approach to scum during Team Mafia if I roll scum, duh

[chennisden]

That’s on a mech level, and he thinks GIF outing the neighborhood (which I’m actually not sure if he did or not, I thought it was nom?) is cray town.

GIF, A50, maybe DEB.

These aren’t strong, and my teammate, at least Jingle, doesn’t agree with that GIF read.

I don’t have a lot of scum reads that I’m confident in right now, which is why I’m not voting.

I’ve never talked about the A50 one, but if you look at anytime I brought him up, you can tell I was feeling it. It’s not strong, but like I said before, I’m really good at reading him. If he’s scum, I feel I’ll be sure of it pretty soon.

Odd you don't call this out Gamma

I don't have a problem with this but I feel heebie jeebies that you don't either when this is identical

are you calling me scum for asking you to not triple post and then also not also asking Flavor Leaf to triple post immediately afterwards?

I'm not going to butt in and ask every person who multiposts to stop individually

I'm trying to make a point about this many posts being detrimental to the game (and please honestly ask yourself - if you're Vex or volxen, which is going to make you dread reading the game more - seeing 30 extra pages of posts since you last checked the thread, or 10 pages of posts that are maybe as chunky as this one or a little bigger?)

No, I'm not calling you scum for it. I believe you're scum for separate reasons entirely

[chennisden]

and I personally believe that the site has a higher level of play, at least the higher level players, are stronger now than they were 5 years ago.

How

I feel like townplay is on the downturn since 2018

It's because we're telling new players that they need to abide by some antiquated stuff like "oh there's this thing called RVS and there's presumably a hard line to when we go out, we can totally catch scum through hyperanalyzing RVS or whatever" instead of trusting gut more

[chennisden]

Speaking of gut my gut says Gamma is scum

[chennisden]

Yeah and the damaging thing is there's a lot of sentiment that says "your instinct doesn't matter, there are scumtells"

Like a really notable thing in 2019 was the "greeting the thread" scumtell in Newbies. A lot of people blindly followed it and assumed the reason it worked was because they saw someone greeting the thread, not because said greeting gave them a really bad gut feeling

[chennisden]

Dave your inability to do or talk about anything that doesn't explicitly serve your agenda really pings me here.

[chennisden]

Like, I’m getting town vibes from both Chennis and Ank because of this conversation. Scum still have to watch what they say when talking in a natural way with people.

Exactly

Dave you feel really tense.

You rarely give direction that feels spontaneous or genuine. Your direction feels informed, artificial, and self serving. "Self" as in "I

know

what's good for my wincon" to a degree and in a way that town would not have.

[chennisden]

Flavor Leaf is literally reading my mind right now

Should I be scared

[chennisden]

Like, I’m getting town vibes from both Chennis and Ank because of this conversation. Scum still have to watch what they say when talking in a natural way with people.

Otoh I think that all three of us are completely capable of naturally doing this as scum, so.

Also

VOTE: Davesaz

[chennisden]

I would say my read on you is likely to continue to fluctuate, but yes I will bug people on reads for you

Also I think your reaction to being scumread is a lot more natural than Dave's

[chennisden]

my team has offered minimal input on this game, dave.

[chennisden]

Like, in your own words, you "point out stuff that’s obvious" so I don't think "there is no possible way I can think that you're scum here." I do think you're scum and I do think if I had said nothing you would've totally coasted for a long time.

[chennisden]

If you're town I've been tunneling you since page 15. Do you really never consider me to be scum this game? Because I've never seen you seriously push or consider it. In fact I don't think you've given a lot of thought to my alignment at all for the entire game.

[chennisden]

I left a note for myself in hood to say this when D2 started

Regardless of your alignment I have a ton of respect for you dave.

[chennisden]

I'm not exactly ready to say "Hi this slot is town" but I am willing to like, drop the push and look elsewhere for now.

[chennisden]

Also vex has gone up my readslist a lot

[chennisden]

So does anyone want to help me out and scumclaim or something

[chennisden]

This game is hard

[chennisden]

There's two conflicting line of thought

One is: Nom got tunneled as town and lashed out at Elements, momentum went there and scum was like "sure Ok"

Second is: Nom is scum and lashed out at the next nearest lynch, Elements, momentum went there and scum was like "Oh phew"

[chennisden]

So does anyone want to help me out and scumclaim or something

Hi

Thanks

[chennisden]

Ok well it's been a while and a lot of booze so

[chennisden]

Figuratively not literally, I figuratively boozed myself out of this game

[chennisden]

I would say if I had to choose between killing nom or GiF I'd go for gif.

[chennisden]

Btw from my experience from Big Four Mafia

If this slip push planned by scum from the beginning, which seems unlikely, it'll be obvious that nom is scum when the time comes.

[chennisden]

For now I feel like this can be treated as genuine and a useful line of discussion.

[chennisden]

skitter references Open 768 and notes Volpe's play is similar to his here. She is like 80% confident he flips red here.

My team agrees

[chennisden]

Btw my scumdar is pinging and it is pointing to volxen

[chennisden]

btw

I explained what was going on in my team's discord and duckling told me that this game looks like a town loss

I'm inclined to believe him honestly

Hey, sounds really familiar to what my team said

[chennisden]

Hot take: Maria is TOWN (but I'll deny I ever said that if asked for an official statement)

Very, very cold take tbh

[chennisden]

What's up with the pessimism?

I wonder why I'm pessimistic

In posts 1411 and 1412, Elements committed a trust tell, which breaks site Mafia Rule #2. From the definition of trust tells:

A trust tell fits both of the following criteria:

The player insists that they only do this behavior as a certain alignment, and never as any other alignment.
The player, over the course of multiple games, only does this behavior as a certain alignment, and never as any other alignment.

From this post, Elements doubled down by continuing to insist he's never voted himself as scum (breaking the first definition for trust tells) and then stating he's done it over the course of multiple games (breaking the second definition for trust tells). This objectively fits the criteria for a trust tell.

As such, the Team Mafia Mods have agreed to the following actions:

• Effective immediately, Elements has been modkilled in Gay Mafia IV. A flip will follow shortly, and the game will move into Night 1.
  
• Elements will flip his initial role, allowing Team "Team" Team to continue to score points if town wins Gay Mafia IV.
  
• However, due to the modkill, Team "Team" Team will receive a tiebreaker penalty, putting them at a disadvantage for scoring if they happen to tie with another team.
  
• Elements has been removed from the Team "Team" Team Private Topic.

We regret this situation has occurred. Remember to be sure not to skirt any site rules, even unintentionally. That doesn't fly during regular mafia games, and it won't fly in Team Mafia, where we're making extra sure to protect the integrity of the event.

If you have any questions, you may PM the Team Mafia Mods.

[chennisden]

Oh cool, Dunn has Nom as town and Gif as scum and agrees with my Dave scumread. That makes me feel a bit better.
pedit: Yall made the person we probably want to see vote the most at the moment voteless? Whew.
pedit: I feel like I've made my EP stance pretty clear and I'm just waiting to hear reasons why he's town at the moment. The commuter thing is scummy in nature

This may be the first time I've agreed with everything Dunn said

[chennisden]

BELIEVE IT!

だってばよ

[chennisden]

If you out your neighborhood I am going to make sure you die. Don't.

[chennisden]

If you out your neighborhood I am going to make sure you die. Don't.

Jokes on you bcz my hood already got outed.

But actually... why do you think this?

because it's antitown

[chennisden]

there are probably some town hoods that get REALLY REALLY bad if scum controls them.

this hood discussion is REALLY REALLY bad for the gamestate.

you guys outing your hoods like dumbshits is REALLY REALLY bad for my sanity.

[chennisden]

It's like saying "if I'm a dumbass I'll give you 100 dollars"

1) no reward
2) risk
3) you're probably a dumbass, you're losing 100 dollars

now change "a dumbass" to "antitown" and change "I'll give you 100 dollars" to "I'll help scum for shits and giggles"

[chennisden]

Also

Does town REALLY say "I get that you think I'm scum, but can you pretend I'm town for a moment and walk me through your reasoning?"

[chennisden]

I don't think you understand my argument.

You keep telling me that outing hood membership (AGAIN: not flavour, power, or survivor) is good, but you have yet to point to a convincing reason why.

[chennisden]

Does town REALLY say "I get that you think I'm scum, but can you pretend I'm town for a moment and walk me through your reasoning?"

I don't know who you're talking to here, but if I think the person scumreading me is town that's exactly what I try to do.

This is all at EP

[chennisden]

Let's say some dude came up to you at a bar and annoyed your friend

So your friend tells you "I should go punch him in the face"

And you go "What the hell man?"

He's like "There's no reason not to punch him in the face"

And you're like "That's not how anything works what the fuck, you can't just take back punching someone in the face, do you get it, IF SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS YOU CANNOT REVERSE IT"

And then you watch your friend punch the guy in the face and it erupts into a bar brawl

[chennisden]

VOTE: Chenn

How Chenn act reminds me of how angry he gets as scum. This is within is scumrange.

I literally think you don't get it at all.

[chennisden]

Also if we massclaim

SCUM KNOW WHICH HOODS ARE ALL-TOWN. TOWN DON'T. THIS HELPS SCUM.

[chennisden]

Also I don't really want to be the one to talk about this but it's fairly likely that scum are concentrated in hoods.

[chennisden]

1. outing hoods is fucking stupid
2. talking about outing hoods is also stupid

[chennisden]

Also I don't really want to be the one to talk about this but it's fairly likely that scum are concentrated in hoods.

As in, scum probably are in at most 3 hoods. Probably 2

[chennisden]

I would say the all town hoods,

by design

, probably have stronger powers that scum would want to exploit.

Just because there are no scum in a hood doesn't mean there are no tools for scum to control a hood. Scum know whether this is the case or not. We don't.

I think it's very bad to do this when this sort of game is designed specifically to fuck over bad town play (i.e. massclaiming hoods for no reason).

[chennisden]

Also I don't really want to be the one to talk about this but it's fairly likely that scum are concentrated in hoods.

Also I don't really want to be the one to talk about this but it's fairly likely that scum are concentrated in hoods.

As in, scum probably are in at most 3 hoods. Probably 2

Interesting take. Why do you think this?

A50 strongly disagrees with your stance:

I think you might be assuming a max of 1 scum can be in any given hood.

I am fairly confident of it, and I have my reasons:

1- I was in a game that was close enough to this design recently.
2- Putting 2 scums in a 3-players hood with a "last standing man ability" sounds a bit silly. It's as if the designer wanted to reward scum for busing (or compensate them if one of them got lynched). "Hey, you lost a comrade, so take this ability to compensate for it".
3- Also 2 scums in a hood makes it an all-scum hood in practice. The hood's ability is decided by voting, so scum will always have the majority in said hood (and will never need to kill their town neighbor unless one of them got lynched/vigged)

Consider #3 for the outed abilities: 2 scums would be able to make a 3rd scum (not in their hood) untargetable, or they would make a townie that's likely to vote one of them voteless. See why it's an absurd proposition to have a 2s-1t hood in this setup?

Unless -if course- we are being trolled and there is an all-scum hood + 1 scum in one of the other 5 hoods, in which case your proposition to out the distribution becomes even more destructive to town.

I'd say it objectively makes more things interesting from a game design standpoint if the last standing ability is a) good for scum and b) can't be used by scum unless they kill one of their buddies

And it objectively sucks from a balance perspective to go 1-1-1-1 wrt scum

[chennisden]

I've been assuming hood distribution was randomized btw.

even so, the probability of 1-1-1-1 is stupidly low.

18/18*15/17*12/16*9/15 is approximately 40 percent. i would not bank it.

[chennisden]

I would say the all town hoods,

by design

, probably have stronger powers that scum would want to exploit.

Just because there are no scum in a hood doesn't mean there are no tools for scum to control a hood. Scum know whether this is the case or not. We don't.

I think it's very bad to do this when this sort of game is designed specifically to fuck over bad town play (i.e. massclaiming hoods for no reason).

I hadn't considered that some town's would be specifically designed as all-town.

Can you point me towards any past games that align with your assumption?

A non-random scum distribution in hoods could significantly change how I'm approaching the problem of hood information.

see: fogport (modded by fakegod).

[chennisden]

Chennis talks about hoods but also doesn't want to talk about hoods really makes u think

Nomnomnom makes moronic comments but doesn't want to be scumread really makes u think

[chennisden]

Chennis talks about hoods but also doesn't want to talk about hoods really makes u think

Nomnomnom makes moronic comments but doesn't want to be scumread really makes u think

[chennisden]

btw you're objectively misplaying against me if i'm scum here, nom.

doing this shit and voting me is a surefire way to make it really really easy for me to mislynch you and for nobody to give a fuck afterwards.

[chennisden]

anyway let's talk about anything that's not outing hoods

such as the weather, what you had for breakfast, etc etc

[chennisden]

btw before i go nom and EP are probably town

[chennisden]

I think GammaGooey or Maria have scum in them. I feel like they’re part of the same neighborhood, and one is driving along the other, if that makes sense.

Imma shut this shit down and bring out the info everyone needed. They’re aren’t in a hood together. I’m in a hood with gamma and someone else. gamma’s entrance was scummy as shit and they called me a punk in there and I didn’t like it and it hurt my feelings. Also they were very happy to switch their vote, like it didn’t actually matter they just wanted to get someone.

you fucking moron

[chennisden]

why did you out that

WHY

[chennisden]

I think GammaGooey or Maria have scum in them. I feel like they’re part of the same neighborhood, and one is driving along the other, if that makes sense.

Imma shut this shit down and bring out the info everyone needed. They’re aren’t in a hood together. I’m in a hood with gamma and someone else. gamma’s entrance was scummy as shit and they called me a punk in there and I didn’t like it and it hurt my feelings. Also they were very happy to switch their vote, like it didn’t actually matter they just wanted to get someone.

you fucking moron

just ingame, ilu DEB

but why

[chennisden]

please stop outing hoods left and right?

[chennisden]

We can still vote Chennis y'all this is his one daily comment and it's about hoods what were the odds

fuck you too

[chennisden]

1.life exists

2. have i ever not posted a huge stream when i pop in? do you genuinely believe this comment is in good faith?

[chennisden]

anyway let's talk about anything that's not outing hoods

such as the weather, what you had for breakfast, etc etc

Weather is cold, and I can't be bothered to try and remember what I ate for breakfast.

this, incidentally, does not out any hoods. so this is more helpful than average.

[chennisden]

anyway EP is prolly town.

i think it's possible that nom is scum that's fueling the flames: best way to get someone more confident in a scumread is to ask for reasoning.

but as it stands i think nom is town and is going to disappoint me

[chennisden]

so i had a thought process, and i would play devil's advocate and think of reasons nom/EP should not die

and i came blank

[chennisden]

VOTE: Gammagooey

Gobble's been mentioning that he's pretty scummy. I was absent early game, but apparently Gamma's early game just focused on getting on ppl's good sides

sounds about right from the impression i got.

[chennisden]

so i had a thought process, and i would play devil's advocate and think of reasons nom/EP should not die

and i came blank

I've heard it all befooooore
And I
can take care of myself

I'm not sure I can here, lol.

Please enlighten me, chenn.

basically

i'm thinking that there's a chance that you and nom, especially you, are town here and scum are probably people fueling the flames.

[chennisden]

i think DV has way more scum equity than people are giving him credit for too. i think gamma is at best ok lynch for today.

[chennisden]

GiF... yeah could kill

[chennisden]

my team heavily scumreads volpe

[chennisden]

Chennis/Gammagooey

Anyone else seeing it?

[chennisden]

TWTBAW

[chennisden]

Too wolfy to be a wolf

[chennisden]

wouldn't the most obvious killer of Farkran be nomnomnom?

[chennisden]

can't believe it took me so long to think of this

[chennisden]

soooo many reasons to kill nomnomnom

massacre nomnomnom

[chennisden]

Why is that?

I don’t think you’re scum, but you’re my number 3 scum read. Does that make sense?

there's one word for it: paranoia

[chennisden]

that is a really, really off post volxen.

[chennisden]

i dont know what to do and i went "ick" so i guess i'll kill the thing that made me go ick

VOTE: volxen

[chennisden]

Volxen my impression from you in quite literally the half dozen games we've played where you've been scum is that as scum you say obvious stuff and you smash it into a wall. And as town you say a lot of useful stuff and flow it into a wall.

[chennisden]

Actually you know what

UNVOTE:

[chennisden]

I was looking back at some volxen town games, that last post is not that off from volxen town and the content w/ reread of that last post is not bad.

Also volxen, I think it's pretty clear I considered him trying to force his bad read on me bad.

[chennisden]

comedy is your interactions with the rest of the game; tragedy is your interactions with my slot

[chennisden]

speaking of past town games I have the impression you should already know that this is my town game yet here we are?

That doesn't have anything to do with reality but okay

[chennisden]

i didn't want to go down this path but here we are.

[chennisden]

let me preface the post by saying the following: if you're going to post something that will insult the character of my teammates, don't.

so my team (ali,pops) has agreed on the following (I don't think CT has really seen or thought about this part of the game yet):

- modkill was objectively bad.
- it's more likely scum would report it.
- we are not insinuating anything bad about anyone's character or they would report something they did not actually believe to be an offense. it's not like scum would deliberately exploit the rules. we think kuribo genuinely believed it was a trust tell because a) the earlier posts resembled a trust tell b) it looked like it was working and c) kuribo might only have considered "elements town; he is confirming himself right now" because he knew elements was town. significantly, the majority of people did not think it was a trust tell even though they had seen it.

this is a starting point for discussion, not an end all be all.

also let me end the post with the following: if you're going to post something that will insult the character of my teammates, don't.

[chennisden]

sigh.

i didn't want to post this but ali has been bugging me for the last eternity about it.

[chennisden]

CT is reading nom

Ali says he wants to watch the thread burn, insisted i needed to include a : ) emoji, then expressed his lack of fucks given about the : ) emoji.

pops says the more important point is mods are more likely to grant modkill if reporter is scum

[chennisden]

pops says more specifically:

if elements had a mason partner who reported the post and said "it sucks to report this because elements is on my team but I think this is wrong" mod is more likely to send warning or disregard.

if scum says "he's breaking the rules and this is unfair" then a mod who is worried about the scumteam having a fair shot and maybe feeling guilty about inappropriate has a higher likelihood of letting emotion into the decision.

the probability of the modkill increases the more the scum agree, but the modkill was bad enough i think the chance other scum agreed is low.

it's an unfair advantage to hunt for scum this way, it's not really possible to have this data w/ correct modding.

[chennisden]

@chenn Tbf, kuribo seemed annoyed enough about the Elements thing that he'd probably bug the mods about it as town or scum.

pops clarified that mod action + informed POV makes it more likely.

[chennisden]

@chenn Tbf, kuribo seemed annoyed enough about the Elements thing that he'd probably bug the mods about it as town or scum.

pops clarified that mod action + informed POV makes it more likely.

Probably true.

But still, wouldn't the mod have consulted the whole/most of the TM mod team before deciding to mod kill though? I'm struggling to see one mod taking such serious action without consulting the others.

Does that change anything?

Also, for whatever it's worth, lynching for this reason would feel pretty dirty tbh. I understand why you brought it up though.

yes this would be very dirty indeed

and peer pressure is so relatable these days, how do you think my team deported me here

[chennisden]

@chenn Tbf, kuribo seemed annoyed enough about the Elements thing that he'd probably bug the mods about it as town or scum.

pops clarified that mod action + informed POV makes it more likely.

Probably true.

But still, wouldn't the mod have consulted the whole/most of the TM mod team before deciding to mod kill though? I'm struggling to see one mod taking such serious action without consulting the others.

Does that change anything?

Also, for whatever it's worth, lynching for this reason would feel pretty dirty tbh. I understand why you brought it up though.

pops says it doesn't matter because it was objectively bad.

"It's not that I wouldn't ever do it, the opportunity to do it as scum hasn't happened yet" - it's not even clear if he was towncasing himself opposed to lamenting irony

[chennisden]

i don't think he was deliberately going "hi i'm trust telling i didn't do this as scum" though, although i do think it was objectively poor play.

[chennisden]

In other news:

I skimmed through Gammagooey's ISO and feel less good about my vote now. Gobble seems to have strong reads though, so maybe he's seeing something that I can't. I'll put Gamma as a scum lean for now.

I think Ank is scum. Her early game behaviour was scummy, I didn't like that Elements and I were her only two scumreads, and I really disliked how she 'needed convincing' that I was scum before she voted me today. She's been calling me scum all game -- why the sudden change of heart?

Chenn is either town or scum trying to distance himself. When the wagon on me started picking up steam, he was in a great position to join the wagon without much need for defending his choice. He chose to defend me instead. On the other hand, his earlier treatment of my hood argument reminded me of how he behaved as scum in a cult game. Tentative townlean.

I think FL is town. Strong town lead.... However, the chance of FL being scum increases dramatically if Ank flips scum.

What does GiF normally do in his scum games. He was super active early, but he seems to have dropped off recently.

VOTE: Ank

i mean, as much as i've given up on this game, i'd love to at least say "i don't have these mislynches on MY hands"

also wrt "he was in a great position to join the wagon without much need for defending his choice" - yes exactly.

"On the other hand, his earlier treatment of my hood argument reminded me of how he behaved as scum in a cult game." - i think the difference there is i was explicitly making shit up and here it would actually drastically hurt town if we did that

[chennisden]

no, it was partially based on truth - just hilariously exaggerated. i do dislike excessive focus on readslists but not to the point of saying "STOP NO YOU CAN'T DO THAT." i do try to focus on some important slots but it's not like i ignore the rest of the game.

[chennisden]

i also don't think it's very similar to my "legit" scumgame - i was trying new stuff and wanted to shake up my repertoire of scum moves, and it also was a cult game born from memes.

[chennisden]

also the idea of "assoc. reads" in a cult game had a really funny irony to it.

[chennisden]

pops doesn't believe it's a

conscious thing

and for the record i wouldn't buy that it's a

conscious thing

either.

[chennisden]

she's just saying it's more likely town would not spot this, and scum would be alerted "hey, this townie is doing some weird shit, this is icky and not good."

and she said before that mods are more likely to do it if the reporter is scum - though i do personally think this is a stretch

[chennisden]

Alisae says "I think Kuribo is using anger as a mask"

[chennisden]

The reason I spot trust tell attempts has got jack shit to do with alignment and everything to do with the fact that I've been called out for attempting to pass off "I never claim VT as scum."

viewtopic.php?p=5349159

Five years ago it was explained to me how that was a trust tell, and if I can't do it, damn well nobody else is either.

That's also not a trust tell even if it's true or nearly true it's a strategic decision rather than "I will post 'I want to [redacted] fluffy unicorns all night' as my 17th post in the game if I am town"

For example, see mastina "I don't fakeclaim as scum."

[chennisden]

i've never posted in a game of team mafia as scum

[chennisden]

^^^^ THIS IS A JOKE DONT KILL ME; I WAS NEVER IN A GAME OF TEAM MAFIA BEFORE; THE STATEMENT ABOVE IS MEANINGLESS

[chennisden]

i've made it pretty fucking clear that none of the above was my take thank you

[chennisden]

we are not insinuating anything bad about anyone's character or they would report something they did not actually believe to be an offense. it's not like scum would deliberately exploit the rules. we think kuribo genuinely believed it was a trust tell because a) the earlier posts resembled a trust tell b) it looked like it was working and c) kuribo might only have considered "elements town; he is confirming himself right now" because he knew elements was town.

[chennisden]

it's not like scum would deliberately exploit the rules.

[chennisden]

it's not like scum would deliberately exploit the rules.

it's not like scum would deliberately exploit the rules.

it's not like scum would deliberately exploit the rules.

it's not like scum would deliberately exploit the rules.

it's not like scum would deliberately exploit the rules.

it's not like scum would deliberately exploit the rules.

it's not like scum would deliberately exploit the rules.

it's not like scum would deliberately exploit the rules.

it's not like scum would deliberately exploit the rules.

it's not like scum would deliberately exploit the rules.

it's not like scum would deliberately exploit the rules.

in summary; don't talk shit about my team because you didn't read what they said

[chennisden]

SCUM IE YOU

[chennisden]

it wasn't intended to be sarcastic?

[chennisden]

are you reading the same posts as i am?

[chennisden]

in all honesty, the only reason i'm still here is so i don't get removed from my team's disc

[chennisden]

don't worry, i'm not planning on being on this site for much longer

[chennisden]

Whatever bye

VOTE: ank

I don't care anymore

[chennisden]

Actually do I care

UNVOTE:

Ur slot still sucks ank

[chennisden]

Ank u reek of low effort scum with nothing to do

[chennisden]

And u reek of fish

[chennisden]

And u reek of fish

ank, this is more important

can you answer it?

[chennisden]

Ank u reek of low effort scum with nothing to do

if I was low effort scum, I wouldn't be posting at all

and does this make you high effort scum

or at least medium effort scum

[chennisden]

sorry kuribo. my team has also decided it is a good idea to shut up right now

[chennisden]

cheekyteeky is the third person on our team who has called volpe scum.

[chennisden]

cheekyteeky is the third person on our team who has called volpe scum.

right afterwards she says "nah volpe town"

anyway more cheeky takes:

first impression, nom and Gamma are scum

maria scum (? included) "Ali, is pushing bad lynches scum indicative for Maria"

if nom is town she thinks volxen = scum for BAD TMI

[chennisden]

@Chennis with all respect to Cheeky she wouldn't be the first person I listen to when it comes to reads lol

if nom is town she thinks volxen = scum for BAD TMI

what did she mean by this

If you're town volxen is TMIing you

[chennisden]

Nom are you a dick to people who scumread you or just a dick to people in general

[chennisden]

A lack of paranoia, sufficient sleep, and a non irritating gamestate is a less likely combination than [insert celebrity couple that we never expected to happen]

[chennisden]

I agree that things here have sucked and I want to do something about it.

It's about time someone that isn't me wants to do something. The last 3 things you quoted about me: No, they're not helping anything and I'll be the first to admit that. I was just getting annoyed once again. When you see something in your eyes that is a repeating pattern that you want to make stop and have tried to do yet fails it gets to a certain point where you go 'ugh' and that's basically how I was feeling the night before (combined with other things that I have no need to get into)
People I want to lynch aren't really a topic right now, people I think are town are just fighting. I don't feel like this town has any townwork and is trying to help each other solve it's just people getting louder and louder. I can't fix other peoples problems without getting just as loud. That's not my style, even if I can do it.

I'll start it off by saying that I still need to properly review my Espresso read but I think he is town for the weird pushing for everyone to out their neighbourhoods. I agree with you that the neighbourhood outing was a bad idea, but it seems even more unlikely for scum to actively and publicly try and make everyone out themselves.

I get that, but my logic is EP seems very smart and to just come up with an idea that's quite frankly just bad, I don't see how town him comes up with that. His early game was weak to what he admitted too so assuming he was busy because I trust that. I still wouldn't put him as town in my eyes just for such a thing. I'd want to know more about your Dave read, but we can dig into that when you're done catching up.

I'm gonna be honest, it's a stupid thought but to me it feels like the people complaining a lot about how horrible the thread is can be scum in a vacuum, it's an easy way to just dismiss the game.

It is, but the way to look at it is the player who's saying it. If someone thinks the game is 'stupid' or at least trying to give off that type of appearance do you think the player doing it is scum trying to make up an excuse or town who got demotivated? That's the best way to view these card of things.

maria scum (? included) "Ali, is pushing bad lynches scum indicative for Maria"

Alis name hasn't come out of my mouth once this game so where is this coming from? Lack of reading perhaps.

Also UNVOTE: I like DV now

Oh for the record, that was a question CT asked Ali

[chennisden]

@Ank

CT says "not much, I've been mainly skimming ISOs," and she finds it odd she's townreading so many people

[chennisden]

I wonder how volxen will react to pressure though

Seems like that might be telling

[chennisden]

VOTE: volxen

[chennisden]

Not gonna lie everything about EP makes me feel uncomfortable

The slot

The interactions around it

[chennisden]

Btw the reason I'm not scumreading ep at least is because

1. Why do we assume a good player is good all the time, nobody is always at the top of their game
2. Why are we assuming a red role PM makes you magically bad at the game, people are better as scum..

[chennisden]

Also voting an i active slot will do jack so

VOTE: nom

[chennisden]

On skim I think a50 and nom feel aligned

[chennisden]

Hi DEB

Are we going to avoid accountability because you don't have a vote, woe is me?

[chennisden]

I also doubt scum flavor leaf just fakes disinterest in the game here

Like the dude has got to have some better strategy

[chennisden]

Not gonna lie everything about EP makes me feel uncomfortable

The slot

Didn't you just recently say I was probtown?

The interactions around it

Fair point.

Who's interactions with me stick out to you the most, and why?

Yes but that doesn't mean you don't make me feel uncomfortable

Really the way people are going "uh-huh we're going to vote a non-EP person" feels weird and unnatural to me

Don't get me wrong I'm not really complaining that it happened, just weird how it did

[chennisden]

DEB you realize votes are not actually that important right?

[chennisden]

As it stands the most useful shit you can do in a game of mafia are, in this order:

1. Spew your slot town
2. Sort people
3. Id. scum
4. Convince people that whoever you have identified is scum

Nowhere on this list is "vote"

You do not need to be able to vote today to help advance town's wincon. Why are you refusing to do this?

[chennisden]

As it stands DEB your slot has scum equity for ~reasons~

You also don't seem like you're willing to resolve your slot anytime soon so you dying isn't a great tragedy.

[chennisden]

I'd like to also point out that Chennis should also know all of this shit he's been in a hydra with Volxen before yet decides to vote me for some reason.

You remember that shit when Volxen completely stop talking once he got caught and you started writing paragraphs after paragraphs to save the hydra @chennis? This is literally what's happening right now except he replaced out instead. Wake up.

Fair pt.

[chennisden]

Actually wait, if volxen flips scum I'm not sure I still want to lynch nomnom but this tunnel from nowhere is really weird so I couldn't shake it off either way.

The moment I said nomnom v volxen is probably never SvS people began to massively wagon him and that's creepy.

There's no reason to start with volxen instead of starting with us and resolving this tension first. It would let the game flow a lot better.

Are you high

We've finally got a real wagon started with people banding together to get this game going elsewhere than pointless discussions about nonsense and you want to go back to asinine 1v1s that last for 20 pages that will stall the entire game that everyone will skip? Are you for real?

Nom why are you so confident volxen flips scum?

Also nom, volpe is right that you really dont have a lot of reason to scumread volxen yet.

Volpe, nom is right nobody is interested in this 1v1 right now.

[chennisden]

Nom you remind me of my own scumgame in Big Four

Your push on Volxen feels like my push on Yurkin in there

Like you are so confident he is scum and your reasons are so rigid it scares me.

[chennisden]

See the only thing I can gleam from volxen is

1) ISO is very narrativey and too many words to say too little things
2) He is answering more questions than he is asking
3) He tried to "buddy" me with his first heal (something scum volxen has done literally every time)

Only one of the three above is actually scum indicative and the other 2 can be chalked down to playstyle. So am I really keen to kill volxen when his wagon feels slimy, and the clearest reason I have for scumreading his slot is his first post??

[chennisden]

I'd like to also remind everyone that Volpe voting me here if you keep our hood into question should show how scummy he is in this whole thing and why you really should see this counterwagon as a futile attempt to redirect from Volxen being caught scum. This whole game collapses once he flips scum. Just please realize the gamestate you're in.

Hood hood hood hood hood hood hood hood hood hood hood hood hood hood hood hood hood hood hood hood hood

Volpe Volpe Volpe Volpe Volpe Volpe Volpe Volpe Volpe Volpe Volpe Volpe

you sound like a broken record

[chennisden]

Nom

Are you willing to be BOPed on this read?

[chennisden]

As in are you willing to die tomorrow if he's town?

[chennisden]

Nobody answers "yes" here just for the record.

Was expecting you to say yes, then I would go on a spiel about how you're too confident and it may have blurred your perception of the game, blah blah blah.

[chennisden]

I look forward to creature "redeeming" that scummy ass slot and watching in disappointment while you guys let him get away

On the other hand if he's town... we have it in the bag?

[chennisden]

I think you're scared of what the slot could bring, nom and kuribo.

[chennisden]

whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhat

[chennisden]

You are literally advocating against re-evaluating, the basis of townplay

Yup

[chennisden]

This is also exactly what kuribo is doing

Yup

[chennisden]

Why are you so confident volxen is scum again

[chennisden]

Dude I think it's really not going to be as hard as you claim to read Creature in this spot. Particularly when he will have to fake an entire catchup and stuff

[chennisden]

Reminder: You have given me no reason to "rope [creature] without a second thought"

Like if Creature turns out to be scum, cool, I will be voting there. But do you

really

think

1) Volxen can only be scum
2) Creature will ALWAYS prop up this slot to look town?

[chennisden]

I think, on a whole, the benefits outweigh the harms.

And you can push Volxen, I'm not trying to stop you from doing that, but I don't think it's right to push such a strong narrative.

[chennisden]

In essence I think you're taking a really... "extreme" view of Volxen?

Like don't get me wrong by no means do I townread the slot. But I don't think it hurts to see a new perspective. We have time

[chennisden]

Chenn it's only fair to warn you you're already on my Shitlist and your team is close behind, so I'd suggest that unless you have something to say to me directly, or you plan on lynching me (good luck), you keep my name out your mouth and hope creature's buddies kill me

Trying to lynch you is becoming more and more attractive as your slot goes farther and farther down the towny scale, so

[chennisden]

What if he's not scum

[chennisden]

I don't get mislynched in my solo games either, and this a sologame, so.

[chennisden]

Btw you are aware as scum I was well within my rights to tunnel you to death a lot earlier?

[chennisden]

What if he's not scum

What if I pissed green


What if the sky collapsed


What if the moon came to life


What if

What if


What if


You're not even townreading it yourself and you're worried about what if it's not scum

Sigh

[chennisden]

Really really tempted to just vote volxen and kill kuribo and nom without hesitation if it flips scum

[chennisden]

Um

Flips town

[chennisden]

Btw you are aware as scum I was well within my rights to tunnel you to death a lot earlier?

Actually I am probably doing this from your perspective, hmm.

[chennisden]

I don't get mislynched in my solo games either, and this a sologame, so.

Well if you and me are both town maybe we need to stop pissing on each other and you stop worrying about defending a slot you don't even townread. Big if though.



Dude you haven't even given me one reason we should want to hear anything from a slot that you don't even Town read

Agreed on the first point. Also yes I kind of get your point Volxen slot doesn't feel resolving

Also not opposed to like, having Creature get votes on him

But at this point 1) I have no idea how many votes he has on him (a lot) and 2) him posting makes solving alignment easier, not harder.

[chennisden]

I don't think reporting Elements makes you town.

[chennisden]

But at this point 1) I have no idea how many votes he has on him (a lot) and 2) him posting makes solving alignment easier, not harder.

Have you ever replaced into a scum slot?


Objective one in that case is to completely detail associative tells from the previous holder and set your partners up to win. MAYBE spread enough bullshit to live another day.

Yes, and a scum slot can become townier

Actually yeah kind of, I am seeing your point

[chennisden]

Like, if Creature ends up scumposting I will vote him

Duh

But I think it's not right to do it before he even posts.

[chennisden]

Anyway my objective here isn't even to get you to remove your vote from Creature, I'm perfectly okay with you voting Creature

the point is I'm not voting creature

[chennisden]

Anyway my objective here isn't even to get you to remove your vote from Creature, I'm perfectly okay with you voting Creature

the point is I'm not voting creature

yet

[chennisden]

Really, nom, so it has to be either end of two extremes?

[chennisden]

Since we all love to tell stories let me tell you a story, nom.

There was a cop who was being tunneled by the majority of town and my reluctance to lynch them so early saved her from claiming and bought a guilty on scum. So your idea of "no we must kill Creature now before he gets us to re-evaluate" is not great.

[chennisden]

But I'm not going to??? Especially because you two looks like you are tunneling the slot and Flavor Leaf can just pop in and drop a shitty vote with no consequence.

[chennisden]

Oh yeah I assumed I did this but seems liek I didn't

UNVOTE:

[chennisden]

Whatever

VOTE: volxen

[chennisden]

I don't care anymore and this game has become increasingly unpleasant.

[chennisden]

Boom let's get the flip.

Regardless of outcome this is a good flip. Looking at Volpe/Chennis for tomorrow.

Again, sounds like you preparing for volxen flipping town

[chennisden]

Why we got a good wagon going and this game isn't pointless 1v1s anymore, best outcome honestly I don't know what you're talking about.

>Not pointless 1v1s anymore
>Looks at the last few pages

[chennisden]

I look bad if Volxen is town? I really don't get your train of thought here.

[chennisden]

I am seeing your point

[chennisden]

That quote didn't work but oh well.

[chennisden]

I actively did not want to deal with the shit that I had to deal with in the last 5 pages and yes, I have gotten worse

No surprise there

[chennisden]

Damn Chenn you spend ten pages defending the slot's right to live and the first thing it does is throw shade at you

I mean, it's not that unjustified

[chennisden]

Anyway if this is scum I take everything back

[chennisden]

Boy I am trespassing into actual gamethrow territory and I'm not even trying to

[chennisden]

What has happened to my towngame

[chennisden]

Not sure why I would go through the pointless theater if I was scum

[chennisden]

Hell I could literally go "I didn't know that was a hammer woe is me"

[chennisden]

Btw I have no faith in us to win

[chennisden]

why

[chennisden]

Judge, our opponent has not proven why nom doesn't not make this kill as scum, so please disregard their contention

[chennisden]

my thoughts on how people feel aligned

[chennisden]

Ok scum very cool

[chennisden]

You're not pushing me because you can't afford to push me, not because you believe I'm not scum.

[chennisden]

Oh and btw a big reason I townread Ank was ~hood stuff~

[chennisden]

Dude... yeah there's scum in our hood, it's A50

[chennisden]

Flavor Leaf, try speaking english

[chennisden]

well, the split’s coming.

I think I hit the nail on the coffin with Chennisden/FB right now.

There’s zero reasoning that FB should be in that town side. That’s either a pairing or a TMI.

no?? he's on the green side because he argued with people on the red side -> they are less likely to be aligned?? what??

[chennisden]

the hood i am in, volpe said chennisden is lock town and to lynch nom/kuribo/FL if volpe died.

and volpe died. what does it mean?

nom can you confirm or deny Volpe said this

[chennisden]

Ok, thanks