TM2020 - Large Theme - Gay Mafia IV: TOWN WIN

[Flavor Leaf]

Okay, reevaluate readslist time, I’m not even completely sure where I’m at rn, so doing this in real time.

Almost50
Espresso
Kuribo
GammaGooey

DEB
Chennisden

Panthaleon
DeasVail

Davesaz
Ankamius
Firebringer
Nomnom

Maria

Interesting. I think if there are 3 scum, they’re all in my bottom 3 tiers. I also don’t think FB/Nom are ever S/S, and I do see a world where they are T/T.

[Flavor Leaf]

the current scumlist I'm working on is:

Almost50
DeasVail
EspressoPatronum
Flavor Leaf

I don't necessary think that every other slot is town (annoyingly this game is still hard enough to parse that the things I've looked for leads from has only gotten me ONE OTHER townread I can be confident on) but those four slots are the ones standing out to me the most at this point.

So essentially you think our entire town core is scum (I’ve come around on EP, and don’t really see a point of their play at all if they’re scum) + DV.

Why are you thinking there’s 4 scum?

My team and I are also confused by Ank's scum list.

Gobble says it could be scum!Ank bussing DV.

That’s what I was thinking.

That would explain why DV wagon is a big thing, but not picking up.

[Flavor Leaf]

Maria/Ank/DV? If 4 one of the commuters?

[Flavor Leaf]

Okay, reevaluate readslist time, I’m not even completely sure where I’m at rn, so doing this in real time.

Almost50
Espresso
Kuribo
GammaGooey

DEB
Chennisden

Panthaleon
DeasVail

Davesaz
Ankamius
Firebringer
Nomnom

Maria

Interesting. I think if there are 3 scum, they’re all in my bottom 3 tiers. I also don’t think FB/Nom are ever S/S, and I do see a world where they are T/T.

Switch DV and Dave

[Flavor Leaf]

UNVOTE: Nomm

[Flavor Leaf]

I think Ank or Nom have to have scum in them somewhere. That would explain the stagnant gamestate.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think that’s T/S. I don’t think they’re S/S.

[Flavor Leaf]

If Panth is scum, that might rescind my Maria scum read

[Flavor Leaf]

lmao

The timing of this post is actually ridiculously convenient

[Flavor Leaf]

Fuck, I’m tinfoiling an A50/Panth team now

[Flavor Leaf]

Fuck, I’m tinfoiling an A50/Panth team now

And why exactly are you still alive if I'm scum??

Okay. Fair. I always second guess you when we’re town reading each other around this time.

[Flavor Leaf]

Well I've been thinking of going Panth honestly. Does DEB usually sheep people I never played with him, it just seems he's sheeping ank really hard.

If there's meta about him doing this then I think Panth is a good lynch option rn

Yeah Deb only sheeps or votes me, but late game i do expect him to be able to read me correctly.

[Flavor Leaf]

I find it very cute that after I call them scum again, EP and FL spend half a page calling me scum

That’s kind of how it works...we’ve actively had a town core for a bit now, idk how you can ever genuinely believe that that has been happening as 3 scum.

A50 and I always town block when we’re both town, and EP’s been mindmelding with me, and saying I’m town far before I town read them. I was even pushing them as probably scum for a minute to come to this town read, and you just now start to push us?

[Flavor Leaf]

It just feels extremely opportunistic of you to just now call our town block scum, it almost feels like you saw us coming towards Maria and decided to come after us.

[Flavor Leaf]

It feels like you’re chainsawing.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

EC is on board with a50/FL/EP as scum
Dann thinks EP has the highest odds of flipping scum of the four

And for some reason, I just feel this is fake. I’ve been scum with EC multiple times, and I don’t feel like he ever says this. We’re very familiar with each other, and I feel like he’s town read me here

[Flavor Leaf]

It feels like you’re chainsawing.

no

you're omgusing

How? I have a whole team played up, and I even went through the phase of calling you possible scum yesterday. And you weren’t even the top scum read. I feel you’ve been scum staying off of wagons that are gonna flip town, if that makes sense, and slow the gamestate down.

And then you come out and look like you’re trying completely to specifically try to stop us from town blocking, and now DeasVail is essentially more off the table.

I feel Maria/Ank/DV team is a valid take.

[Flavor Leaf]

I second guess everything because I’m the ultra paranoid type.

[Flavor Leaf]

but of course you're scum

it's literally zero risk to just pile onto discrediting me shifting the game so that the game stays stagnant and doesn't move forward

it's not exactly hard to with how little people care

This is literally not you saying anything.

Town me always solves late game, so i don’t understand the shade on the part. You’re acting like I’m pushing you as 100% scum, and I feel your faking.

I’m saying how I feel about the game right now, and you’re just shutting down, what am I supposed to think?

The difference between our pushes is you’re mad that I’m lean scum reading you. You on the other hand aren’t just pushing me, you’re pushing me and 2 of my strongest town reads as the entire scum team.

You’re wrong. If you are town, you need to see that.

[Flavor Leaf]

I can already tell you that AnkxEP and AnkxFL won't go anywhere lol

FL what do you think of Panth

Maria/Panth have been townlocking each other, but i don’t think they’re both scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m saying how I feel about the game right now, and you’re just shutting down

When the immediate response to me stating a scumread is this, I can't see it as a town response

And I already know it's impossible for me to win it, I'm not an idiot

Disengaging from the thread is the only move that doesn't lose

What’s your thoughts on Maria?

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't case people.

I've openly said your reasons for flipping your reads are clearly opportunistic. Using neighborhood logic to base a scumread on someone is awful. You used that to flip a strong townread on me to your biggest scumread. That doesn't just happen randomly and I've seen no progression from you at all. When I tried to get in your head and see why you think the rb hood had scum I explained and got no answer in return. When we had that long talk you were 'surprised' my read didn't change on you. I fully believe that was your attempt at trying to make me townread you and when that didn't happen you changed your read. Combine that with my previous points and there you go. I wanted to see if I was wrong on you because you and fl are in the same hood so you're probably not both scum, so obviously I'm wrong. I don't know where, but this is a better outcome.

To be fair, both A50 and I are have been staying we think you’re a deepwolf, so I think it’s fair for him to scum read you.

[Flavor Leaf]

EC is on board with a50/FL/EP as scum

But you said he had a HARD TOWN READ on me earlier. Now what exactly has changed in "less than one complete cycle"?

Said the same thing about me too. Those reads are completely flipped. Ankamius is just scum who had to shut us down.

Look at Maria right now.

The fact the wagon is going onto DV instead of one of the two of them is laughable.

[Flavor Leaf]

That's a buzz word. You can literally call anyone in this playerlist a 'deep wolf' without context on why that's just useless shading. If you think I'm a deep wolf case why I'm scum.

I have used context. I use buzzwords, that’s like the premise of my town game. I even make up my own buzz words.

You’re pushing scum agenda, and now you just happened to come in when partnerAnkamius was getting scum read.

[Flavor Leaf]

What is a deep wolf

The scum that’s supposed to make it to the end game without being caught ever.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like even if other scum are to go down, the deepwolf is getting setup to go deep into the game and take it all.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m not making it. You have classic “scum caught for what they think are the wrong reasons”

I feel that’s how you play scum anyways. Town shouldn’t be able to catch you. The fact that I don’t have anything major is exactly why you’re a deepwolf in this position. You are cushioned because for you to go down, you need other people to flip before the majority of this game would consider going after you. That’s the epitome of a deep wolf.

You discredit and shade because that’s all you have to do, when in actuality, you are pretty strongly POE’d out of here.

EP is town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Can someone reiterate their case on EP? I think I would feel better with a DV wagon but I just haven't been following the case on EP at all

I have been, and I still don’t understand. I feel like EP’s been genuine. He gives off TownVorkuta vibes.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why is using neighbourhood logic awful? You used it to townlock your whole neighbourhood, so I'm not sure why you're so against it when I use it.

[Flavor Leaf]

And there actually is reason, which i feel I’ve explained.

Maria is completely distracting off of Ankamius. The timing of her entrance is ridiculous.

[Flavor Leaf]

It's not discredit and shade when it's pure fact that you're just using useless buzzwords that mean nothing because you have no reasons to scumread me. You haven't voted me. You haven't voted who you think my partner is. Honestly if you did anything that made a little bit of sense maybe I could see this logically but you're just wasting my time. 'Deep wolf' nothing.

I don’t really vote until i feel it’s time to vote, because my votes are always catalysts for something. You can meta that. I sit on my vote for a while.

I’m clearly stating who I think is scum, I don’t need my vote to say it for me.

[Flavor Leaf]

This dismissal and distraction mixed in with timing is 100% scum indicative.

[Flavor Leaf]

Just because my read is not up to your standards of fully explain or something along that line doesn't mean I haven't explained why you're scum in the past.

Ditto use transform

[Flavor Leaf]

. I agree, calling you scum is not the same as explaining my read. But the thing is, I have explained my read on you before. You clearly haven't read my iso because you'd see it it's in there.

Transform again, Ditto.

[Flavor Leaf]

Maria is completely distracting off of Ankamius. The timing of her entrance is ridiculous.

I've never seen anything more ironic in my life

Convenient timing, yet again.

[Flavor Leaf]

The fact you haven't voted me despite all the shade and useless stuff you've thrown at me the past few days speaks volumes that you're scared of committing. It's annoying, because one of you are probably town cause 2 scum in a doctor hood makes no sense. I want to find who that is but when neither of you are giving me much to work with it's kinda hard.

“Scared of committing”

Now, that’s completely town indicative of me if you think that.

I’m never afraid to commit as scum.

There’s no reason for scum to have scum reads and not vote. As town, there are plenty. I read off gamestate, and you guys are waiting for me to do something, it feels. Scum are forced because I’m executing the “Power of No”.

It’s driving you guys crazy that I’m not voting, and that’s exactly the point. I’m forcing this gamestate to stay how it is so it can go on longer and see how you guys struggle to change it.

[Flavor Leaf]

it's nice to finally see you on a stage that isn't a broken normal game, scum!FL

What do you mean?

Scum me mainly won Large Themes last year.

And regardless, this is townFL. :shrug: I feel it’s pretty blatant at this point, and scum have to try and discredit me now.

[Flavor Leaf]

FL YOU HAVEN'T DONE SHIT LOL

I’ve done the most, what you talk in’ bout

[Flavor Leaf]

You discredit and shade because that’s all you have to do, when in actuality, you are pretty strongly POE’d out of here.

are we even reading the same game???

There’s clearly discredit and shade in her posts, I don’t know what you’re talking about here

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s driving you guys crazy that I’m not voting, and that’s exactly the point. I’m forcing this gamestate to stay how it is so it can go on longer and see how you guys struggle to change it.

YOU MEAN THE GAMESTATE THAT MADE US LYNCH ONLY TOWN AND WE WERE ABOUT TO LYNCH A THIRD-I

dear lord.

You just scum slip? Because this gamestate shows that EP is likely to get lynched.

And if you’re talking about Ankamius, then you admit as a scum team you are feeling pressure’d.

[Flavor Leaf]

fucking wild that I call out FL and he suddenly is all over the thread calling the game PoEd out when he hasn't done anything all day

That’s literally how I play games. You made an incredibly scummy pool list that scum You HAS to push for.

I even gave you the benefit of the doubt and said, if you’re town, you need to see that you’re wrong. I’ve been actively trying to work with you in the case you were town, despite being paranoid of scum you since Day 1.

This isn’t new.

And you guys shading with the “hasn’t done anything” is exactly how scum act towards Town Me.

[Flavor Leaf]

EP, good case.

I also town read Kuribo, and feel like Panth/Maria has been odd af, and that’s because Maria grossly pocketed Panth (not saying that’s actually gross, that’s good scum play)

Maria and Ank are just mad because Maria was supposed to go the distance.

[Flavor Leaf]

fucking wild that I call out FL and he suddenly is all over the thread calling the game PoEd out when he hasn't done anything all day

That’s literally how I play games. You made an incredibly scummy pool list that scum You HAS to push for.

I even gave you the benefit of the doubt and said, if you’re town, you need to see that you’re wrong. I’ve been actively trying to work with you in the case you were town, despite being paranoid of scum you since Day 1.

This isn’t new.

And you guys shading with the “hasn’t done anything” is exactly how scum act towards Town Me.

X

"this is how I play"
"your list is scummy"
"I gave town!you a chance"
"this is how scum act towards me"

none of this indicates anything except that you can rebut with things that you can say in literally any instance and have it fit in some way

More discredit/shade. I just state facts.

Your list is scummy, and I’ve explained why.

Scum do act this way towards town me, and there’s loads of evidence to show that.

I have actively been trying to work with you essentially all game, you push a town read most of the game, and YOU flipped on me, and added 2 of my strongest town reads onto the scum list.

And then you act like I’m not supposed to react to it? Lol. No.

This is not a NEW read from me. I’ve been talking about this since Day 1, and I was actively waiting because I felt I could have been misreading you.

You’re acting like your list shouldn’t have pinged anyone, which is scummy in itself. I’m not Scum, and I highly doubt I’m being hardpocketed by both A50 AND EP. i highly doubt even one of them is scum. I could be wrong, sure, but it still doesn’t change the fact that you act like this came out of nowhere when my read has been near here all along, and YOUR read changed.

Am I supposed to not do anything? That’s not how I play. Every single day phase I have went lower in activity, and then every single day phase, I have gone heavy at some point, so you’re acting like this is unheard of again when it happens every single day phase. I just get tired sometimes, but I’ll always be here when I need to pounce.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

Good luck. You will lose this in the end. If I’m ever lynched here, town will win from it.

[Flavor Leaf]

If I were scum, you wouldn’t be scum reading me, and Maria would have been dead a long time ago.

[Flavor Leaf]

I like how punchy this is compared to how lazy and energyless my wagon felt rofl this is weird

You had scum trying to just let your wagon go through.

I hit scum, so they’re retaliating.

Ank threw down a vote because she felt like I was going to vote her and she wanted to be first.

[Flavor Leaf]

If I were scum, you wouldn’t be scum reading me, and Maria would have been dead a long time ago.

if I were scum, I wouldn't need to piss around changing my PoE every 5 pages

yet you're ignoring that too

I feel like I’ve done the exact same thing, so why are you using that as a defense with you, but not a defense of me?

I’m fucking town, yo. You’re being pocketed by Maria if you’re town.

[Flavor Leaf]

hey nom

doesn't FL sound like he's reading from a script

he's not acting

he's reading aloud

What script...?

You know I’m more genuine sounding when I am scum, right?

[Flavor Leaf]

Here, let me find some actual responses based on people’s comments of how my scum game looks in regards to that specifically.

[Flavor Leaf]

If I were scum, you wouldn’t be scum reading me, and Maria would have been dead a long time ago.

if I were scum, I wouldn't need to piss around changing my PoE every 5 pages

yet you're ignoring that too

I feel like I’ve done the exact same thing, so why are you using that as a defense with you, but not a defense of me?

I’m fucking town, yo. You’re being pocketed by Maria if you’re town.

have you ever heard of the idea that people who are deceiving tend to have what they're deceiving with on their mind enough to have them slip into their words?

EC literally just said in discord like 5-10 minutes ago that he thinks you're pocketing EP

I haven’t done shit to pocket EP this game. I spent most of the time in our neighborhood telling him I think he could be scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

like you fucking sound ilke you're sitting down to have a friendly debate

with somebody who you're saying is attacking your towncore

Yeah, I’m friendly. Someone just recently called me one of the least toxic players on site. Idk if I agree with that, but I get where they’re coming from. I don’t take scum reads personally like others do. It’s a game, you’re supposed to scum read people to win.

If you’re town, I even understand why you’re pushing me here. You’re just wrong. If you’re scum, I understand the exact motivation of you pushing me here too. Our townblock was bad for scum. I know it was. It was slowly becoming more of a thing, and we were calling Maria scum, something that hasn’t happened as much.

Maria was ready for me to scum read her too. I have a really good track record of reading scum her. (We haven’t actually played that much, but I remember tunneling her on Elena correctly amongst a few others.)

[Flavor Leaf]

If I were scum, you wouldn’t be scum reading me, and Maria would have been dead a long time ago.

if I were scum, I wouldn't need to piss around changing my PoE every 5 pages

yet you're ignoring that too

You keep saying your behaviour this game would be beneath scum!you.

Enlighten me... what isn't beneath scum!Ank?

if the gamestate is focused on killing a bunch of town and there's very little risk of being lynched for staying quiet

then why would I bother not staying quiet

You’re literally arguing different things to EP and I, and they counter each other.

I absolutely don’t think Scum stay quiet here, and you were staying quiet until you couldn’t.

You didn’t want to get called out for that readslist, but you HAD to make that readslist because we were two blocking.

I wasn’t even completely on board with the townblock until you made that post, because that showed that we had a cohesion together, and as scum, it showed we were a threat to the scum team.

[Flavor Leaf]

really FL

I know you as being willing to throw things OUT there when you feel strongly about something

and yet you're just not.

I don’t understand this. I am making extremely valid posts, and the fact that gamestate is dictating the wagon towards me now with Probably scumFB coming into the play, shows I’m town.

[Flavor Leaf]

really FL

I know you as being willing to throw things OUT there when you feel strongly about something

and yet you're just not.

The thing is, Ank, I’m not even pushing to lynch you here. You’re acting like I had a foregone conclusion that you were scum, when I’m much more confident on ScumMaria.

This is exactly why I didn’t want to push ScumMaria right now because she’s the fucking deepwolf. Deepwolf is always protected. I know how that works, I’ve been it a lot.

[Flavor Leaf]

Can even Maria be called a deep wolf if everyone always has a little bit of suspicion of her being the deep wolf

Depends who her partners are, tbh.

Actually, maybe it doesn’t.

If Maria has a good team, she can deepwolf.

If Maria has a bad team, she has to deepwolf.

It depends on who you think her partners would be.

[Flavor Leaf]

I mean he has to save the pool because the game gets broken wide open when it gets cracked

I'm willing to bet on that

I never kill Fakran. :shrug: I don’t kill people who town read me and are town read strongly.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Nomnom - do not put that knife back in my back, please

[Flavor Leaf]

@Ank - Who are my scum partners if I’m scum? Do you honestly believe that my partners would just be A50/EP...? I’m literally like...really good at being the martyr scum. As scum, I make sure that if I go down first, my team is winning.

I don’t lose games as the first scum dead, and someone even made a comment in a recent game “if flavor is scum, I’d rather not lynch him until another scum flips” or something like that.

I’m not scum here.

[Flavor Leaf]

And this is Team Mafia. If I were scum here, I guarantee you would not be able to find my partners. This is why I find your list so ridiculous, especially coming from a Paragon nominee.

[Flavor Leaf]

tbh I think this whole thing about "don't betray me" is pretty manipulative from you FL I don't know, do I think you're devious enough to attack my sensibility and fear of failure? That'd be sick ngl

Well, don’t, this is Team Mafia. I’d probably do it.

You’ve done it to me 4 times, I think it’s a fair assumption for me to think you’d do it again.

I’m manipulative as town too, though, people act like it’s just scum who are manipulative.

[Flavor Leaf]

And this is Team Mafia. If I were scum here, I guarantee you would not be able to find my partners. This is why I find your list so ridiculous, especially coming from a Paragon nominee.

The scummies are meaningless

Sure, but I don’t actually know Ankamius that well, tbh. We don’t have a lot of completed games together, so all I have really is the knowledge of her being seen as a strong town player by her peers, which I think is a fair point.

[Flavor Leaf]

cool

town never wins when I'm mislynched FL

I'm sure that's as convincing to you

You need more inflections and confidence in it to be as convincing.

[Flavor Leaf]

And this is Team Mafia. If I were scum here, I guarantee you would not be able to find my partners. This is why I find your list so ridiculous, especially coming from a Paragon nominee.

I anti-nommed myself

Well, I’m not really even talking about it in just the scummies sense, just more the fact that your peers deemed you worthy of being nominated for it, regardless of what you feel on your town game.

What do you do when I flip town?

[Flavor Leaf]

YOU MEAN THE GAMESTATE THAT MADE US LYNCH ONLY TOWN AND WE WERE ABOUT TO LYNCH A THIRD

This is a FALSE statement. This town has yet to make a single mislynch. We only lynched 3P on D2 and D1 ended with a NL because of the modkill.

Yeah, I don’t get why people are acting like town has been playing poorly. We’ve only had 2 day phases.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m just being constantly discredited and shaded down, and I believe I’m making much stronger points than either Maria and Ankamius, but because they just chop me down constantly, I get the pressure from it. I hope people see that’s why I’m town in this situation, and whether or not both of them are scum, I highly believe that there is scum within them, even if it isn’t both of them.

I also have a lot of pressure coming at me, so it’s harder to think of where that’s happening. This also makes me believe I was on the right track. I also believe scum would have been preparing for me, so that when it’s time to do this, they’d be setup pretty well.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor ur nowhere near close to being lynched
Stop trying to manipulate Ank into not voting u

I’m not worried about being lynched. I’m strictly talking on overall gamestate, and diving into why it’s happening.

[Flavor Leaf]

A50 is talking like the game didn't fall apart after the survivor lynch

We’re still in the same day phase after the survivor lynch....

[Flavor Leaf]

A50 is talking like the game didn't fall apart after the survivor lynch

We’re still in the same day phase after the survivor lynch....

yeah and look at how long it's been with nothing being achieved

The day’s not over yet...

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, does anybody believe that the DEB wagon is all town, including DEB?

Let’s talk about that for a second.

Ankamius made that statement, and then made the scum team of A50/EP/Myself, right? She said A50 was who she was strongest about, but then started pushing EP, then me.

Also, she acts as if it’s ridiculous for the three of us, who were strongly town reading each other, to think she’s scummy for making that scum team list. We even discussed it with each other. This happened after A50 and I pushed Maria as scum a bit. And then after we start discussing Ankamius, not even really pushing her, we were discussing, Maria comes in and comes after us too.

[Flavor Leaf]

just so there's no ambiguity in case this ever comes up again

Volxen/Creature lynch is equivalent to a town lynch because scum had no reason to believe he wasn't town

thank you

It’s not equivalent to a town lynch, it’s just not town indicative for the people on it, there’s a big difference in that.

He still wasn’t town, and thus didn’t have a town mindset. Something was off with it.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: MariaR

Well, let’s do this, I guess.

When I die, lynch Maria and Ankamius, please

[Flavor Leaf]

just so there's no ambiguity in case this ever comes up again

Volxen/Creature lynch is equivalent to a town lynch because scum had no reason to believe he wasn't town

thank you

It’s not equivalent to a town lynch, it’s just not town indicative for the people on it, there’s a big difference in that.

He still wasn’t town, and thus didn’t have a town mindset. Something was off with it.

it was also basically negative information

since... you know

it got slammed through so fucking fast I got whiplash and he said absolutely nothing before that except to comment on my scumread on him???

I’m not arguing that. But it isn’t basically a town lynch is all. It’s still not a town misplay.

If you wanna get real nitty and gritty, scum was probably pushing Elements.

[Flavor Leaf]

like that lynch was objectively bad

and people are claiming it wasn't

Objectively neutral and much better than a town mislynch, not as good as a scum mislynch.

How is it bad?

We still have likely scum on that wagon from Wagonomics.

Would you have preferred a town mislynch there...?

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, I wanna point out, that every single team should say that “lynch FL over EP” especially because I don’t imagine most players are reading this game, and that’s completely a BoP attitude towards my slot.

People are just paranoid of me being scum and sweeping, but if I were scum, you guys have to realize I WOULD HAVE PARTNERS to keep me out of getting into this situation.

And I’m clearly doing this by myself.

Sure, EP is on my side, but if you think EP/Myself are scum together in a doctor/Lightning Rod hood, you have your own set of problems to deal with. And that’s another reason it was completely fair of us to discuss you being scum, Ank.

[Flavor Leaf]

If Nom was scum, I’d be super confident about it at this point, I feel, and her reaction towards this current situation has been townie, which raises my suspicion on Firebringer.

Maria/Ank/DV + FB if there is a fourth.

[Flavor Leaf]

where's your suspicion of FB coming from

I’ve literally been saying all game I think there’s scum in your hood, and we 2v2’d Volpe and GIF together...when ranking your hood, I had Volpe first, GIF 2nd, you 3rd...

Firebringer will even tell you he knows the suspicions been there

[Flavor Leaf]

it's all FL's fault

You pushed a scummy scum list, don’t blame me

[Flavor Leaf]

You pushed that, and expected not to have it be discussed/pushed, that’s the scummy part. You just wanted it out there

[Flavor Leaf]

where's your suspicion of FB coming from

I’ve literally been saying all game I think there’s scum in your hood, and we 2v2’d Volpe and GIF together...when ranking your hood, I had Volpe first, GIF 2nd, you 3rd...

Firebringer will even tell you he knows the suspicions been there

okay so if we discard the hood is there anything else

GIF was weird early, I think FB could be using his playstyle to his advantage.

There’s a good amount, to be fair, I’m just slipping my mind because I’m mentally exhausted now.

Also, it’s nowhere near as strong as it used to be, so I want to go back and check. I was pushing scum in the commuter hood for a while, so idk why you’re posting like this came out of nowhere.

FB’s even my #4 choice in a game I think more than likely has 3 scum in. And even in that, I don’t expect to be 100% correct.

[Flavor Leaf]

the current scumlist I'm working on is:

Almost50
DeasVail
EspressoPatronum
Flavor Leaf

I don't necessary think that every other slot is town (annoyingly this game is still hard enough to parse that the things I've looked for leads from has only gotten me ONE OTHER townread I can be confident on) but those four slots are the ones standing out to me the most at this point.

So essentially you think our entire town core is scum (I’ve come around on EP, and don’t really see a point of their play at all if they’re scum) + DV.

Why are you thinking there’s 4 scum?

this was literally your response FL

To be fair, that’s how you should be able to tell that I legit got pinged by it. Because I clearly got tunneled onto it, because I do see the last part now. I feel like I read it anyways, but I saw the names together, and assumed you were pushing that as the scum team, which changes things, but regardless, I never even fully pushed you either, so Idk why you’re stuck on it.

[Flavor Leaf]

you pushed it as me pushing a scumteam when I indicated multiple times in that same post that I wasn't and needed more to be confident in pushing a solve

then after a bunch of posts you pushed a nom/me scum dichotomy

literally me and the person I had just derailed a wagon on

and this isn't fucking weird to you?

Did I push a Nom/You scum team?

I don’t think I did...Maria/You, sure, but I think that’s fair since I scum read Maria. If I did, I forgot.

[Flavor Leaf]

see

people don't read my posts

You want to know who would’ve read your post, though?

Scum Flavor.

I’m so funny

[Flavor Leaf]

dichotomy.

Eh, I don’t remember. I moved on from that real fast if I did.

[Flavor Leaf]

Maybe you have a point, and I’m pocketed by EP, but even if EP is scum, they’re scum with Maria.

[Flavor Leaf]

where's your suspicion of FB coming from

I’ve literally been saying all game I think there’s scum in your hood, and we 2v2’d Volpe and GIF together...when ranking your hood, I had Volpe first, GIF 2nd, you 3rd...

Firebringer will even tell you he knows the suspicions been there

Yeah but it hasn’t really been from anything I’ve done from what I’ve seen

There’s some truth to this, to be fair. But that also worries me, if that makes sense. I’m also not pushing you like you’re lock scum.

I’m not even pushing Ank that way, but she overreacted into making it seem like I was.

[Flavor Leaf]

Idk the nom one just fell apart so now we get to play deadline scramble

I still don't vibe with a Maria vote tbh

Makes sense. You’re pocketed hard. I feel that.

[Flavor Leaf]

The reason I'd be okay with an FL lynch is that there's a lot of posts and a lot of talking but I don't get the impression from his posts that he actually cares what happens.

Did somebody say L-1?

VOTE: DeasVail

In what world do I never care what happens as any alignment.

[Flavor Leaf]

Maria/Ank/DV

[Flavor Leaf]

I think it was ridiculous that panth became someone that people suspected with MariaR strongly vouching for the slot being town and there being very little in the way of explanation for why the things that made people upset with panth actually would come from scum.

I was specifically stating 1 of them were scum, not both.

Also, DV is pandering at the end, looks like clever distancing from Maria.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also note Maria’s absence from this wagon after calling DV scum most of this game

[Flavor Leaf]

And before anyone goes “scummy shutting down discussion” i waited until he posted his last stuff, and I didn’t even have to do it because Panth stated he’d hammer by deadline, which is in a day.

Main thing I should have waited for was to see if Maria would do anything, but she was probably just lurking out to try and not have to explain being off the wagon.

[Flavor Leaf]

Finally Maria and Ankamius can stop whining about how “bad town’s been doing”.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m aggro af lately sitewide, apologies. It’s a phase.

[Flavor Leaf]

Maria’s scum, the sooner you guys realize it, the better

[Flavor Leaf]

Question:

Do you guys think that Maria would be scum read as scum?

[Flavor Leaf]

By the majority

[Flavor Leaf]

I think FL is pretending to be convinced I was scum when that doesn't even make any sense based on what his read of me was.

My scum read on you?

[Flavor Leaf]

I think FL is pretending to be convinced I was scum when that doesn't even make any sense based on what his read of me was.

My scum read on you?

I’ve literally been stating all day the team is Maria/Ank/DV with one of Nom/FB, probably FB if there’s 4 scum

[Flavor Leaf]

This looks like you’re trying to fake scum theatre with me

[Flavor Leaf]

I got it

[Flavor Leaf]

Dibs on the credit

[Flavor Leaf]

Guess who wasn’t on it even though she’s been pushing them as scum for days.

Maria.

Don’t let her use her not being on it as an excuse if I’m dead.

It makes sense for scum to kill one of EP/Myself tonight, so commuters, please try to commute one of us.

If scum take one of us out tonight, then lynch the other tomorrow, they get rid of our ability to automatically block a kill.

[Flavor Leaf]

FL if DV flips scum you are looking so bad right now rofl

Yeah, I know. I realized what he was doing before it was too late.

Protect EP tonight, please.

[Flavor Leaf]

FL if DV flips scum you are looking so bad right now rofl

Yeah, I know. I realized what he was doing before it was too late.

Protect EP tonight, please.

After it was too late*

[Flavor Leaf]

Jingle stated he thinks Ankamius consistency on events is good, her trying to push the protective hood town core is bad.

He also said the commuter hood is likely to be an all town hood.

[Flavor Leaf]

nom said last night she wants to lynch FL.

should I be worried everything is pushing to that angle rn?

Nom literally stated if DV flips scum it looks bad for me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Crappy thing is, lynching EP or Myself confirms the other as town. I’d just rather not die for that to happen

[Flavor Leaf]

Maria, Panth, Ank is probably the scum team. Maybe DEB instead of Panth.

[Flavor Leaf]

Crappy thing is, lynching EP or Myself confirms the other as town.

How does it confirm?

I had it stuck in my head that Lightning Rod gave a free no kill, but that’s actually not true anymore because of the commuter hood

[Flavor Leaf]

Kinda makes Fire scummy for suggesting to kill within us.

[Flavor Leaf]

People going after EP/Myself have scum in them.

As long as we’re alive, Dave gets to live. (If Dave is scum, well whatever.)
Once one of us die, then we essentially Suicide during the night and it solves itself

[Flavor Leaf]

Panth has faked notes before?

[Flavor Leaf]

I feel like I’m being setup to go down.

I think EP and I both die in the next couple phases, and scum end games.

[Flavor Leaf]

@EC - like, I get it. I’m a scum read, but who would my partners be? EP is like my only assistance this game, and you know from experience that I need the support system or I go down. You and I during our scum team games, we were extremely paired up.

If your slot is town, I could see a Maria, Dave, A50, and one of the commuters team. Does that look completely out of the realm of possibility?

[Flavor Leaf]

A50 has been in the “town core” but hasn’t been actively defending. I noticed this last day phase, but i have a bad tendency of flip flopping my A50 town read around this time, so I don’t really think he’s scum because of this.

[Flavor Leaf]

A message from Eddie Cane!

@EC - like, I get it. I’m a scum read, but who would my partners be? EP is like my only assistance this game, and you know from experience that I need the support system or I go down. You and I during our scum team games, we were extremely paired up.

If your slot is town, I could see a Maria, Dave, A50, and one of the commuters team. Does that look completely out of the realm of possibility?

Building complicated worlds is a waste of time right now, since nom3's flip has a big effect on the game.

I really don't care enough to go back through nom's associatives right now. But, from what I can remember, nom3 being scum looks worse for you and better for Panth/Gamma, as a quick example. She fits in some worlds, but ignoring that:

You can be scum with the following players: Almost50, Kuribo, Davesaz, maybe EspressoPatronum if your neighborhood has two scum, maybe Gamma? There's probably more, but I haven't started a deep solve for partners.

My immediate thought after seeing the flip was that Almost50 killed Chennisden to start looking towards getting that vigilante shot, especially since Chenn and Ank were both hard aligned.

The other immediate thought I had yesterday was that you (as in Flavor Leaf) were discrediting Ank yesterday without commiting to a messy hard push, and that you would lolhammer regardless of your alignment, but that you would also be more likely to do it as scum since you already know you can get away with doing it.

I don't think a MariaR team is impossible, which I tried to express in my earlier posts. I'm just currently thinking there's one scum between you two (FL and MariaR), leaning you currently.

Sorry if anything got lost during the paraphrasing.

Jingle also thinks it was poor of Ank pushing where she did, and I know at least 50% of it is wrong now, probably at least 75% because I don’t think EP is scum, and I’m not shy to hard push. Actually, i did hard push yesterday. I was stating a hard Maria and Ank team, but I wanted Maria first.

If your slot is scum, then fine, I get why you’re setting me up, but if you’re town, you’re wrong on me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also how would I ever “lolhammer” Ank? I believe I was even voting Ank for a bit, so I couldn’t have hammered.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m not discrediting, I’m pushing the reads as scummy, there’s a difference, don’t misrep how it was.

[Flavor Leaf]

@EC - Something Smart is in the hizzouse. That was my phrasing not theirs, don’t worry.

SS ask if Nom’s vengeful is permanent, but he assumed it was but thinks that, If so then she shouldn't be the lynch today or anytime soon, because it risks too much if she is scum which she seems to have a high chance of being. It gives scum 2 high priority kills in a row, effectively that would kill the entire Doctor hood, or some other high priority kills.

Jingle thinks that the commuter hood is all town, though.

SS thinks DEB’s 5079 feels town, and that nom's 5145 is a cheap deflection, bad, but not necessarily scummy.

He comments on Ank’s 5075 being stupid but more likely than not town, then asks me what I think because I know Eddie more than he does.

SS feels Panthaleon 5089 and 5091 feel pretty manipulative. Doesn’t agree that nom today is the best play given that all the vengeful plans can just as easily be executed on any other day, and if nom is NK'd, even better, scum killed a guaranteed mislynch.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Nomnom - i feel you’re gonna twist that knife you’ve been planting in my back every now and then warming me up for this moment. I feel like regardless of your alignment, I go down with that Vengeful, and I’m not scum.

If you’re town, killing me makes EP forced to use the Lightning Rod, and then there’s no more protective hood.

We are high priority kills for scum which is why we’ve been getting so much pressure.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Nomnom - i feel you’re gonna twist that knife you’ve been planting in my back every now and then warming me up for this moment. I feel like regardless of your alignment, I go down with that Vengeful, and I’m not scum.

If you’re town, killing me makes EP forced to use the Lightning Rod, and then there’s no more protective hood.

We are high priority kills for scum which is why we’ve been getting so much pressure.

This is all me, I haven’t talked about this with my teammates either, and they knew nothing of the Nom twisting knives in my back, that’s I’ve grown to hate that I love

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m an odd guy! My scum posting isn’t as odd as my town posting, and I’m far more consistent as scum.

@EC - see that I’m town, and tell them.

[Flavor Leaf]

Damn, this is one of the issues of being on a team with Jingle, SS, and RCE...I can’t have them read me and convince other people

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m seeing the movie Little Women today, then climbing, and then tomorrow I’m recording my podcast about all the Oscar best picture noms with the DEBster and FlipperNuggets, so I won’t be around much.

[Flavor Leaf]

My biggest town case for townNom is Firebringer getting pushed out of the neighborhood. Why wouldn’t that have happened earlier if Nom was scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m gonna do some VCA now that we’ve gone a little deeper into this game. Idk when, sometime this week.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why would FB a mislynch target? I don’t expect most scum to use it on themselves, tbh, so i think it just leans towards FB town.

It gave WIFOM to the Nomnom slot as well.

[Flavor Leaf]

You said nonzero chance, implying that there’s a chance he was removed to keep him open as a mislynch target.

I said the exact OPPOSITE of what you said

[Flavor Leaf]

You were implying scum removed him so he’d still be a mislynch target, and I think it does the opposite. He isn’t a mislynch target anymore because I don’t know how he is expected to get mislynched without pulling a tinfoil scum removed their own teammate, but that doesn’t make sense if Nomnom is town because they’d put stock into them not getting shot, which is a wildcard.

[Flavor Leaf]

I guess. I die before he ever does, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

EP and I have limited time alive before we’re both flipped due to doctor-Lightning Rod.

[Flavor Leaf]

It's quite fascinating that the kill was chennisden, then.

Why? Commuter power was still out there.

[Flavor Leaf]

If you’re implying we should have died last night, that’s never the case. Now is the time we start going down.

[Flavor Leaf]

EP/Myself don’t live that much longer, and it’s pretty clear gamestate that we’re being setup to be taken out within the next few phases, and the fact you’re acting like that isn’t clear is incredibly sketchy.

We’re confirmable, and we take care of ourselves, but I expect EP to go down soon, which forces me to die in the night phase due to lightning rod, which no longer stops a kill because of Fire being removed from his hood.

Essentially, that created a situation where the EP/FL hood gets demolished in 1 go, and there’s nothing to stop that from happening.


@Dave, don’t waste any of your abilities on a night where only one of our hood is living, unless you have a Watcher, i forget what you have. Track, commute, and another is what I remember.

if EP or myself die in the night, it’s also highly likely the other goes the next day phase.

[Flavor Leaf]

I didn’t even think of the Vig LMS.

Everyone’s acting like Nomnom has to go now, which isn’t the case, and if she’s town it doesn’t benefit town to kill her.

Something Smart stated this to me. The venge shot will always be there.

[Flavor Leaf]

It's only a good idea to lynch me if you believe there will never be an extra kill ever but remember that we have a vig LMS and a rod LMS in the same game.

Considering that this neighborhood should always be roleblocked until the end of the game, there's no reason to believe there will be an extra kill.

This is actually incredibly false and borderline manipulative and expects us to believe that there isn’t scum in the roleblocking hood, which is the ONLY hood left alive with all 3 members.

If Panth/Maria are both scum, they can overpower Kuribo and probably even turn on Kuribo, alongside allowing a Vig kill from your hood, if you or A50 is scum.

You keep glossing over extremely obvious paths, and acting like things like that don’t exist.

[Flavor Leaf]

Wait, can they Roleblock individual actions or just the group actions? Because if they can only role block group actions, then the Last Man Standing Vig shot is a moot point by getting the hood roleblocked.

[Flavor Leaf]

A message from Eddie Cane.

Why is this even up for discussion??? MISLYNCHING NOMNOMNOM FLIPS A CONTROVERSIAL SLOT WITHOUT COSTING A MISLYNCH, AND WE GET A SCUMFLIP WITH A SCUM NOM. You guys are making this awful to watch.

Exactly. We can do it ANY day phase.

It’s scum positive to do it today

[Flavor Leaf]

Oh, Something Smart commented you that too.

@EC from SS

getting one scumflip is not automatically good especially when we give scum an extra free kill at a time when they really need certain people dead

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s not no longer useful yet...we still have the doctor power right now.

You ignoring the roleblocker hood is scummy, you pushing Nom, who you’ve been pushing as town, I believe? Is scummy

[Flavor Leaf]

Yes...? Why is that even in question form? This is basic mafia stuff. The LMS ability TAKES AWAY the doctor shot.

[Flavor Leaf]

I disagree there’s no chance of going to lylo, you lot just refuse to see that Maria is scum because “ohhhh she hasn’t done anything scummy FL is louder than her he must be scum!”

The sooner town realize Maria is scum the better off we are this game.

[Flavor Leaf]

Okay, so if there is no way that the scumteam can be stopped from killing within your neighborhood, then why is the doctor power at all useful?

Us pulling separate night kills is fine. Us getting setup as a vengeful/lynch is not

[Flavor Leaf]

Why are you assuming we aren't considering MariaR as scum?

I didn’t say you.

I said town, in general

[Flavor Leaf]

Because I am.

Read the gamestate

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s not an assumption.

[Flavor Leaf]

Not good enough.

Too bad

[Flavor Leaf]

And referencing your neighborhood is

not

an excuse. Your neighborhood power, if you are correct in that you two are being eradicated next, is no longer useful to the game, and therefore we have no reason to protect it specifically.

SS:
the faster FL & EP die, the faster scum can start killing other people.

[Flavor Leaf]

My own gamestate read says that's entirely bullshit, so you're either scum trying to discredit the nom lynch or town over-dramatizing.

We never indicated at all that we wanted your slot venged. We don't even know ourselves who we want venged. All we are doing right now is getting people on the same page to have the venge shot be used.

As an aside, Eddie Cane agrees with nomnomnom that she doesn't need to post her reads.

Lol?

Absolutely not.

Firebringer even brought this up at the beginning of the day.

[Flavor Leaf]

The vengeful just isn’t necessary to hit today unless we think Nomnom is scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Losing town is still losing town. This is likely to be a long game, she’s not going anywhere

[Flavor Leaf]

My own gamestate read says that's entirely bullshit, so you're either scum trying to discredit the nom lynch or town over-dramatizing.

We never indicated at all that we wanted your slot venged. We don't even know ourselves who we want venged. All we are doing right now is getting people on the same page to have the venge shot be used.

As an aside, Eddie Cane agrees with nomnomnom that she doesn't need to post her reads.

Also not talking about your slot.

There’s Maria setup, if A50/You have scum in them, the chenn kill was a setup, making Nomnom venge in general is a setup of she’s town

Hell, even if she’s scum, taking one of EP or I out with a venge then forcing a night kill through lightning rod now that it can’t be protected immediately takes out our hood cleanly.

You look too into the surface level side of things

[Flavor Leaf]

So one person says it. That's not indicative of anything, especially since that same person has RC whispering in his ear.

Most everybody else that has checked in has either not really commented on it or has favored a nom lynch instead.

Exactly.

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s all been net neutral at most. You can tell by the zero defense for either EP or myself.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’ve thought Kuribo is scum since Day 1, but that could have been me getting pocketed. If I’m missing someone in my sights, that could be it, but like, I’d rather that go later.

If there’s scum in Ank/A50, i think it raises Kuribo’s town equity.

[Flavor Leaf]

Losing town is still losing town. This is likely to be a long game, she’s not going anywhere

Nomnomnom is going to be a controversial subject until she is dead.

We get a free extra lynch in the case that she is town.
We get our first scumflip in the case that she is scum.

The gamestate is dulled and apathetic. Having a scumflip will do a lot to revitalize it, and having the slot that is causing a lot of friction removed will also help revitalize it.

This is basic gamestate knowledge.

I'm actually starting to regret requesting the roleblock on our neighborhood and abstaining from vote removing, because just putting the game at one less vote to lynch is something that would help us a lot right now while the game is this apathetic.

Such a 2012 mindset, scum me abuses that mindset all the time, and I assure you whoever is scum is not playing in the past here.

This is 2020.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t want venge targets. Me complying with that means I’m okay with Nomnom being killed today.

I am not.

[Flavor Leaf]

And regardless, I’d want my scum reads flipped, so i don’t get the point of that question?

Maria is my top scum read and I feel I’ve been very vocal about that, so I don’t understand why you’re acting like I’ve given nothing to who should be venged

[Flavor Leaf]

And referencing your neighborhood is

not

an excuse. Your neighborhood power, if you are correct in that you two are being eradicated next, is no longer useful to the game, and therefore we have no reason to protect it specifically.

SS:
the faster FL & EP die, the faster scum can start killing other people.

Then you can push other vengeful targets instead of endlessly discrediting both the nom lynch and my slot like you've been doing all day.

SS says there a difference between having reasoning and discrediting. He has no idea what I<Boon’d> been doing but he hasn’t been doing anything except making an argument for what's mechanically better.

He doesn’t necessarily think he’s right here but he definitely think it's not as clear-cut as Eddie seems to think it is. He also has not remotely caught up with most of the game so he doesn’t know how important the nom flip would be. But if nom is scum, scum clearly removed Fire from the hood with the intent to have her take the fall and get a vengekill. So it seems sensible to let it sit at least a day.


Obviously this is mostly his word’s and I’m paraphrasing stuff here and there.

[Flavor Leaf]

It is relevant considering I am literally conftown and that you are removing someone conftown from the game just for a shot in the dark!!!!
This is what scums want. This is why they gave me that venge shot. Use your brain pls.

pedit: not it's not playing with one less confirmed town player is bad, jsut straight up bad

you are not even remotely close to confirmed town and you're a decent enough player to know it instead of spouting this utter horseshit while refusing to actually go into details on any of your reads

you know

like scum who don't want to give town any potential advantage once they flip would do

Tell me what kind of scum makes a move that gives town an incentive to lynch them

I'll be waiting

SS:

The fall guy or The bus fodder. The LHF who somehow lives multiple days longer than they should have and goes out with a bang.

This is a very common scum archetype. And Something Smart should know, he’s been it many times.

His words ^ not mine.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, next time I do a SS post, I’m gonna state it without changing from first perspective.

[Flavor Leaf]

Deb had a wagon on him that magically went away? Why is that so.

Ank called the entire DEB wagon and DEB town

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, DEB’s fine.

[Flavor Leaf]

Scum removed me because they want to ensure nom has venge because she is gonna shoot wrong and they want her to save them work

Which is what Maria says as point 2 and I agree

So let’s not lynch nom

Yet you voted me? This is kind of a contradiction by you because I’ve been actively trying to not have Nomnom be the lynch here.


Biggest thing that gives me pause on DEB is Maria pushing it, but I’m okay killing there.

VOTE: DEB

Curious to what happens.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yet you voted me? This is kind of a contradiction by you because I’ve been actively trying to not have Nomnom be the lynch here.

That’s not a contradiction

You said scum is actively trying to lynch Nom to get them to venge shot someone, and I’m actively stating to not lynch Nom.

It’s a complete contradiction.

[Flavor Leaf]

Firebringer scum flip merits a never lynch Nomnom scenario too.

[Flavor Leaf]

For what it’s worth, I feel if DEB were town, there’d be much more trolling by him going on. Counterpoint it’s Team Mafia, but still.

Ankamius also pushed an all town wagon on DEB, DEB included, and that’s made me feel a bit off from DEB

[Flavor Leaf]

I didn’t know when I said scum it represents just u. Nor did I know that a person can’t both say “let’s not lynch X” but actually wants that to happen.

It does because as scum, I’d be power controlly enough to be a part of the decision to be made. I would never not have an input and I play as a team player as scum, so it is 100% @ me

[Flavor Leaf]

I didn’t know when I said scum it represents just u. Nor did I know that a person can’t both say “let’s not lynch X” but actually wants that to happen.

It does because as scum, I’d be power controlly enough to be a part of the decision to be made. I would never not have an input and I play as a team player as scum, so it is 100% @ me

I don’t care about ur self meta

I don’t care that you don’t care about my self meta

[Flavor Leaf]

Good then u can stop arguing with me about stuff we both don’t care about

I care about my self meta

[Flavor Leaf]

DEB/Ank/Panth/Maria/Firebringer/Dave

Probably contain all the scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Gammagooey went full tilt on lynching nomnomnom because he thinks she's scum, and fuck the consequences.
Panthaleon went full tilt on lynching nomnomnom because he thinks she's scum, and fuck the consequences.

I also don’t understand why this is town indicative rather than a scum tunnel.

The fact you used the same line for two people makes me feel one of them, Gamma, is town, and one of them, Panth, is a likely scum partner of yours if you flip scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Gammagooey went full tilt on lynching nomnomnom because he thinks she's scum, and fuck the consequences.
Panthaleon went full tilt on lynching nomnomnom because he thinks she's scum, and fuck the consequences.

I also don’t understand why this is town indicative rather than a scum tunnel.

The fact you used the same line for two people makes me feel one of them, Gamma, is town, and one of them, Panth, is a likely scum partner of yours if you flip scum.

Are you seriously telling me that you don't see why it's town indicative for somebody to hard push a lynch on somebody that will both get a kill and has proven over and over again that they will push back against being pressured or scumread?

I get tunneled like that all the time when I’m scum, and I feel like people are actively arguing different stances at me on purpose.

Firebringer is saying people who are pushing for Nomnom’s lynch hard are scum, votes me.

You say that the people who are hard pushing for Nomnom’s lynch are top of your town list, shades me.

Like, I’m just being shot down no matter what stance I take, and I feel like you’re Hyena’ing me.

The fact that Pantha and I have not interacted like at all this game, makes me feel like you 2 are dealing with me, and he’s dealing with other people.

If I’m wrong on Maria, then you guys have been keeping different iterations of that around. This game has been bouncing back and forth between EP vs Ank, Nom/FB, and Maria vs FL.

It feels like scum are just herding sheep around this game until people get tired out, and a lynch goes through.

[Flavor Leaf]

DEB/Ank/Panth/Maria/Firebringer/Dave

Probably contain all the scum.

Ankamius/Panth/DEB/Firebringer makes sense as a scum team to me right now

[Flavor Leaf]

DEB/Ank/Panth/Maria/Firebringer/Dave

Probably contain all the scum.

“Half of the alive player list probably has all the scum”

Okay, stating 50% of the players have all the scum, when legit likely 33% of them ARE in fact scum, is not a stretching. This is a BAD attempt at discrediting.

Statistically, within that list, that means 22% of players is what needs to be figured out.

Those are GOOD statistics, so don’t @ me with that shade. 6 non scum players have died. That’s essentially true.

[Flavor Leaf]

Ok but ur takes are really bad FL. I don't feel any desire to talk to you about my position

Says the one voting obvtownNomnom

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Ok but ur takes are really bad FL. I don't feel any desire to talk to you about my position

Also, this implies he knows I’m town.

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It feels like scum are just herding sheep around this game until people get tired out, and a lynch goes through.

I will be blunt, I strongly doubt I would be afraid of anybody in this game if I was scum.

This gamestate is laughably easy to abuse, and there is nobody in this town that is capable of rallying town together in order to save it. All it takes is to put out enough discourse to push public opinion towards lynching town rather than scum, and town will do the rest of the work while we blend in, since there's not much point in sticking our necks out in order to do the same.

Starting 1v1s all over the place is not how you win games like this. Sorry.

I never once said you’d be afraid, this is a misrep. Never even implied it.

That’s just good technique. It keeps people from picking up momentum.

I can rally a town. I can rally a town when I’m scum.

This playerlist I can rally a town if scum weren’t chopping me down.

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@Kuribo - I feel like we’re being hard discredited all of a sudden because we’re on DEB.

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Notice even Ankamius brought Maria lower on her list.

EC was even calling me more likely scum than Maria, yet Ank green’d me

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EP
Kuribo
Nomnom

A50
Gamma

Davesaz

Maria
Firebringer
Panth
DEB
Ankamius

No order with in tiers.


@Panth - which of these are bad then

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It feels like scum are just herding sheep around this game until people get tired out, and a lynch goes through.

I will be blunt, I strongly doubt I would be afraid of anybody in this game if I was scum.

This gamestate is laughably easy to abuse, and there is nobody in this town that is capable of rallying town together in order to save it. All it takes is to put out enough discourse to push public opinion towards lynching town rather than scum, and town will do the rest of the work while we blend in, since there's not much point in sticking our necks out in order to do the same.

Starting 1v1s all over the place is not how you win games like this. Sorry.

I never once said you’d be afraid, this is a misrep. Never even implied it.

That’s just good technique. It keeps people from picking up momentum.

I can rally a town. I can rally a town when I’m scum.

This playerlist I can rally a town if scum weren’t chopping me down.

Fear is what prompts me to take action as scum.

I'm not afraid of anybody here, ergo I wouldn't be prompted to take action.

It's implicit.

Looks like scumbravado to me

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A50 and Gammagooey are hard townreads of mine?

I was writing a long post going into why I had reads the way they are, but I decided not to post it. Instead I'm going to do it this way.

Ankamius

Almost50
Firebringer
Gammagooey
nomnomnom
Panthaleon

davesaz
Flavor Leaf

Dr Easy Bake
kuribo
MariaR

EspressoPatronum

And yes, I'm changing my mind on DEB, somewhat, solely because of his vote on nom today.

I don't think his lynch is at all useful to the game other than the exact same reasons that nom is a good lynch, that being that it relieves a source of tension from the game.

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It’s also convenient that DEB drops as a wagon starts up on him.

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A50 and Gammagooey are hard townreads of mine?

I was writing a long post going into why I had reads the way they are, but I decided not to post it. Instead I'm going to do it this way.

Ankamius

Almost50
Firebringer
Gammagooey
nomnomnom
Panthaleon

davesaz
Flavor Leaf

Dr Easy Bake
kuribo
MariaR

EspressoPatronum

And yes, I'm changing my mind on DEB, somewhat, solely because of his vote on nom today.

I don't think his lynch is at all useful to the game other than the exact same reasons that nom is a good lynch, that being that it relieves a source of tension from the game.

Congratulations on ripping out the context. Would you like a medal?

Yes.

Also, WHAT IS OUT OF CONTEXT? This is the literal context...

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It’s not even discrediting, it’s straight up factual happenstance.

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Kuribo from early on has been actively pushing his thoughts, the blow up on Elements I think is town indicative moreso than scum indicative based on why would scum PUBLICLY do that?

Also, I forget what day it was, but there was a day where him and I were paired up and arguing at people coming at us, similar to how we are right now, and I just feel Kuribo and I have been coming from the same place this entire game.


EP has been completely genuine with me from early on. Even when I was pushing EP as possible scum, he continued to passively just give analysis rather than actively trying to pocket me. I agree with his sentiment from early on that I believe our hood is an all town hood, and multiple times throughout this game we have naturally come to the exact same conclusion, a mind meld. There was a time when I posted a thing in the game thread, and he posted some post in the neighborhood, and we ended up at the exact same potential scum team.

If there’s a scum pocketing me, it’s A50, I’ll admit, which is why A50 isn’t in my top tier. That being said, the fact that I have this doubt on A50 makes me believe that I am just correct on him, because when I start to doubt my town read on A50, it ends up getting us both mislynched.

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Day 1, we were both talking about how Elements was probably town before he was modkilled.

I believe this is shown if you look into Day 1 that I was defending Elements.

Elements came into my hood very genuinely “assuming we were masons” and that it didn’t come off as scummy to me.

Elements full claimed everything pretty early, and EP actively commented back saying he didn’t think he should have claimed it.

That and the way he’s been handling our doctor claims shows that even though he town reads me, he’s been cautious and fair about how to go about it in a very town indicative way.

Our hood is legit useless if there’s scum in it.

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Espresso is also one of my newbies, albeit, I believe this is only my second game with them, but I really don’t feel like they’d be able to pocket me so strongly from their own actions, if that makes sense.

I could see myself potentially jumping into their pocket due to other people’s actions, but if EP is scum, they played me perfectly, down to even my suspiciousness over you, because he brought up you being possible scum Night 1, but I chose to doctor you there.

If this is setup by EP, this is a scummy worthy game by them, and no offense to them, I just don’t see it being at that level play in this game.

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He’s just been asking me some pretty solid questions and I don’t really think scumHim comes up with them like that.

I don’t even know how to answer most of them.

I feel it makes sense we have similar reads, though.

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That’s what I’m talking about!

VOTE: Panth

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VOTE: DEB

My neighborhood has talked me down or whatever

I spoke to my neighborhood and they agree that you are a useless waste of a slot, but that lynching you is not a good idea. So I got off it

Ank, talk to Panth about this, please.

You said you were town reading Panth for them going hard on Nom, but they flipped.

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He’s not risking a venge kill on himself, he just wanted to appear that way.

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I’m not even tunneled here, I just have a POE pool.

And my reads have just as much merit as yours, if you’re town, we’re just on the opposite sides of the schism.

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FL vanished as soon as I made that vote.

Interesting.

I commented in my neighborhood, EP can attest to that. I was on my way to the climbing gym/seeing Birds of Pret later, so I’m not gonna be here, so I wanted to see how the gamestate shifted after that.

[Flavor Leaf]

Wow prey autocorrected to Pret.

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If y’all lynch EP, I’m not using my lightning rod.

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We all know I’m getting Venged if Nomnom gets lynched.

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I'm waiting for duckling to get back to me mainly

I've been mostly relying on him for sanity checks and I have homework for him on FL that I want to nail down because I have a feeling that determining his place in the gamestate is the last piece I need to nail down enough reads to be able to solve the game

Duck and I misread each other almost every game we play together. We get into town v town spats a lot.

EC’s your best bet, which is a reason I’m thinking you’re probable scum.

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Do you remember how FL has taken potshots at me all game and tried to wagon me and now he magically does not speak my name or vote me when the traction to vote me is gone? Cause I sure do.

Yes, I have, and if you’d notice, the opportunity and traction to vote you came up and I have yet to vote you, which contradicts this line of reasoning.

Don’t act like you’re special with the potshots being thrown at you all game, I’m throwing pot shots all over the place when people need a pot shot at them.