Cobbled together reasons between me and EP for why we think that Dong is scum.
In post 1205, Donempire wrote:Yeah formers scum.
I have never believed his posts were anything outstanding, but thats not the smoking gun for me. The last 3 posts he made seem like its coming from frustrated scum that got caught due to luck, and his desperation to switch to a NSG wagon shows that also.
Dong is aggressively shading Formerfish here for his vote on the NSG wagon. This has the double effect of defending against an NSG lynch by painting the people voting her in a bad light. This also helps try to move the town towards a Formerfish lynch (which was a very real possibility at this point in the game).
In post 1206, Donempire wrote:Gobble wagon seems rushed. I think people caved in too early to formers offensive.
I especially didnt like that nsg was MIA and yet former still said she was making it a 1v1, shes not even here
I will also say that i dont like how cheeky attacked dunn out of thin air - it seems like it was meant as a way to lull the nonattentive to thinking dunn was doing something malicious against her when he wasnt. As far as i see its not like she scumreads him either so wtf?
EP has a few quick thoughts about this post. He says that it is a misrepresentation of Formerfish "going into a 1v1" with NSG. EP also says that this is another soft defense of NSG when Dong said "shes not even here" because it is providing a subtext that NSG's lynch will have less appealing information than a Formerfish lynch.
I think this post is interesting because here Dong states that he does not like how Cheeky attacked Dunn. This will be important because this seems to imply a scum read on Cheeky. I think this is also a potential buddy comment with Dunn who was townreading Dunn at the time.
The timing of the vote is suspect to me.
In post 1205, Donempire wrote:Yeah formers scum.
I have never believed his posts were anything outstanding, but thats not the smoking gun for me. The last 3 posts he made seem like its coming from frustrated scum that got caught due to luck, and his desperation to switch to a NSG wagon shows that also.
It comes several hours after this post where Dong acknowledges the read.
It also comes after these posts where Dann and Dunn discuss that Dong's actions around the Formerfish wagon look like posturing.
In post 1277, Donempire wrote:Im not posturing. You think we're done? I wanted to use the some time left over to make up for my activity.
To which Dong replies that he isn't posturing.
In post 1289, Donempire wrote:
Not a logical reason yes but i didnt check the vc or the deadline, i just wanted to get in whatevee i had in mind and go to bed
Not defending myself but i dont want anyone to get the wrong ideas either.
And a very passive defense of himself. The way this post is worded gives me the impression that Dong did not want to look like he was strongly defending himself against that attack out of a fear for how the optics might look.
EP then says the next string of posts don't make much sense because of Dong's stated reads and their progressions.
We have this group of three, which appears to be a townbloc given the defense of NSG.
In post 1298, Donempire wrote:Thats where my mind is at. I dont think i will be considering anyone else to lynch tomorrow but i do want to make a case on esp come tomorrow.
This is seemingly reinforced by the comment here that he wants to push Espeonage the next day. If it was a scum list, Dong would have listed Espeonage in that list.
But if that is a town list, it doesn't explain Dong's earlier comment that he did not like Cheeky's attack on Dunn, a person who he openly defending and town reading.
In post 1299, Donempire wrote:Im starting to turn on ceph and i tr kitty. I didnt like hops recent posting however.
And it further doesn't make sense when he is softly attacking Hopkirk here.
So really, what is that list? And why is NSG in it when she was barely present as Dong himself stated?
In post 1310, Donempire wrote:
Lol? I already said that was my suspect list for tomorrow. Today its just you, and i think your fates been sealed
Ah, so it IS a scum group. But there's no justification for NSG being there. Especially given Dong's earlier statements about NSG and the oblique defense of the NSG wagon by virtue of attacking Formerfish. Here Dong discusses Formerfish's wagon as if it is a done deal. He is actively pushing the narrative that Formerfish is the lynch today, even though he apparently now scumreads NSG.
This progression doesn't track for me or EP.
In post 1395, Donempire wrote:
Hes not detlecting you idiot, dunns been active. Do you know what deflecting means?
Here we see a further defense of Dunn, which I think is important because it could explain why Dunnstral was later killed after his support on Dong was visibly weakening.
In post 1396, Donempire wrote:
Former seems like its a done deal at this pointz i doubt trying to flip everyone on nsg at the last moment will work, and im pretty sure on former (im also convinced on nsg but in a decision of one or the other...)
Again, here Dong is pushing the narrative that Formerfish is a done deal. Not that he is even scum. Just that his wagon is a done deal and it should happen. I think this post is incredibly important in analyzing Dong's thought process of the situation. BUT Dong even gives us more information saying that he could also vote NSG, but one or the other he chooses Former because it is a "decision of one or the other..." when in reality his vote would have made NSG's lynch secure, but his vote on Formerfish just made that wagon a contender.
In post 1403, Donempire wrote: In post 1398, Dunnstral wrote: In post 1396, Donempire wrote:
Former seems like its a done deal at this pointz i doubt trying to flip everyone on nsg at the last moment will work, and im pretty sure on former (im also convinced on nsg but in a decision of one or the other...)
This is a pretty lazy excuse, your vote on nsg would put her to l-1, while your vote on FF ties the wagons at l-2, so "flipping everyone" isn't something that needs to happen if you wanted to
I'll be willing to flip on nsg if formers wagon stops traction, but its not because i scumread nsg over him but rather to just get a lynch in. I'm still in full support of a former hanging.
Dunnstral even calls him out for that very same premise! And Dong backtracks on his certainty of the Formerfish wagon using totally external reasoning rather his own thoughts. This is a parachute phrase. Dong is saying he won't move his vote unless certain external criteria occurs, which he is actively preventing from happening by pushing the narrative that Formerfish's wagon is done.
Now we get into the reason why I have been HMMing the end of Day 1 wagons when we have votes like this...
On someone who was not in his list of scum. Someone he did not openly say he wanted to pressure or case. A vote despite Formerfish being a "done deal."
This is blatantly a preservation vote to protect NSG. Notice how the Formerfish wagon LOST TRACTION yet Dong DID NOT VOTE NSG. This is directly contradictory to what he said he would do earlier.
He still doesn't like Cheeky, yet he is fully willing to join a flash wagon that she started. How does that make sense from a town perspective? It doesn't. It makes sense from the scum perspective of a player wanting to get a lynch.
In post 1446, Donempire wrote:Why is every top wagon just kicking and screaming and then we go on to another wagon
Dong is openly bemoaning that this is now the SECOND wagon that someone has used emotion to get themselves out of.
In post 1457, Donempire wrote:NSGs not here to flood an entire page with insults, guess thats who were lynching today then
Here is again softly defending NSG by calling out reasoning for people unvoting.
He then says that the NSG hammer is the worst compromise for him when he was openly stating he saw her as scum earlier. Dong's reads and actions surrounding these wagons
do not make sense
. Given his earlier comments, it is not the worst compromise. It was the ORIGINAL compromise he agreed to when he said he would vote there if the Formerfish wagon lost traction. Which it did. To which he then voted BBmolla. A wagon that was started by one of his earlier stated scum reads. A scum read that he still maintained as we can see in the quote below.
In post 1490, Donempire wrote:Whatever nsg flips doesnt mean anything. Scum can say "durr if hes town/scum then so and so is scum!!" since they know the flip beforehand. What all of you need to do now is shut up about it, we'll know her role in a few hours.
The icing on the cake is that Dong is openly trying to get people to stop talking about things simply because he hammered and the flip was coming. What? Why would a townie want that to happen? Why wouldn't he want to continue to talk especially when he made a comment that he was CONCERNED about his activity and interactions in the thread here:
In post 1277, Donempire wrote:Im not posturing. You think we're done? I wanted to use the some time left over to make up for my activity.
In post 1289, Donempire wrote:
Not a logical reason yes but i didnt check the vc or the deadline, i just wanted to get in whatevee i had in mind and go to bed
Not defending myself but i dont want anyone to get the wrong ideas either.
Again, the trains of thought coming from Dong do not make sense.
This is why EP and I are convinced that Dong is scum.
When Dong opened with a case against Auro and then just slipped into the background today... it is all scummy to us.
