TM 2021 Large Normal 2: Wikipedia Integer Facts (Over)

[OkaPoka]

dannflor just know i regretted killing u d2 u make the game more fun to play

and cthulhu was just too powerful for me to be summoned, something about the strongest wills

[Dannflor]

it's okay cephrir was my worthy successor

I think cthulhu is just waiting for you to try again

[Hopkirk]

One potentially hilarious version of this that did not play out: if innocentvillager targeted Hopkirk n4 and everything else remained the same, Hopkirk would have gotten a PM saying "you were targeted by a vanilla cop" and probably had a moment of horrible panic before opening the thread and seeing he was dead.

hey implo, what i'm mostly wondering is, what exactly was the idea between game 1's setup?

(the thread is closed so i'm asking there)

By "between" you mean what was the idea of this one compared to the last one? It was basically an entirely different setup if so. The idea of the first one was large number of info roles that can maybe piece together something useful if they combine knowledge but with some of them belonging to scum.

That would have been amazingly horrifying.

[innocentvillager]

im not really sure why people strongly TR'd Hopkirk at all, maybe someone can enlighten me there

are you feeling ok?

you two might want to use

this

size text if you want to throw shade or anything but locktown reads at me. less people will be able to see it that way so it'd be far less embarrassing for you when you realize you were wrong and have to shamefully redact the badness of your inability to read me

it's like the two of you don't understand the concept of a townblock or something. mutual townreads smh

Hopkirk you actually pocketed me kinda with this post lol. you were definitely in my PoE but this post kind of made me really reconsider on you lmao. i have a tendency to townread this kind of stuff for some reason

[Infinity 324]

Hopkirk is a legend

[Nancy Drew 39]

Hopkirk is a legend

+1

Hopkirk is amazing.

[Ythan]

You can't summon him you have to wait until the stars are right.

[OkaPoka]

Setup wise, I am interested, what would you considered the ~ev of a setup like this to be? Not like "I think this is balanced" but I think this is 55/45 favoring x side etc.

Also if there is a setup thread I'd love to see it.

And was the fact that this was a reroll factor into setup design/balance consideration? I remember being very confident in a higher kill density and a low protection density in the reroll setup because I'd assume you guys would want to speed things up but this setup is within the realm of "it just ended up that way"

I am also interested in general how much did team mafia play into design considerations

[jjh927]

My 2 checks were me looking at people I scumread hoping I was wrong so I could clear them which didn't really work out so well, huh

[Ythan]

Glad I didn't claim that visitation.

[Gypyx]

By "between" you mean what was the idea of this one compared to the last one? It was basically an entirely different setup if so. The idea of the first one was large number of info roles that can maybe piece together something useful if they combine knowledge but with some of them belonging to scum.

yeah that's what i meant my bad

and as a last question, was the visitor meant to trueclaim / why was it compulsive?

[Jingle]

don't stop coming

They did stop coming. He was elimmed.

[Jingle]

Setup wise, I am interested, what would you considered the ~ev of a setup like this to be? Not like "I think this is balanced" but I think this is 55/45 favoring x side etc.

EV is pretty much meaningless unless you can work out an optimal strategy for the setup, so with closed games it's pretty much not a thing.

With closed games you're more looking at the potential clears vs guilties, presumed mislims until scumwin, broken interactions, and comparing the setup to games that have previously been run with similar circumstances. While there are reviewers, like me, who will put things in % estimations for ease of use, that's not really a metric that has any real meaning. Honestly looking at the setup my gut tells me that town could have had a little less power given the nature of TM, and I probably would have made the BP a full BP instead of activated 2-shot while giving informed to a goon along with something net 0 to the other goon as a hint that vanilla wasn't a safe choice for a claim and to prevent unwanted setup based implications of VC being town. Still though, this is entirely within the range of what I'd approve as balanced for a closed large theme, and I don't play Normals often enough to know if they have a higher scumwin ratio.

There were 3 cleared-by-role players (Dann/jj/Dunn) and a further 0-3 clears from neap visits that didn't even need to be claimed by the neap (VT targeted by announcing Neapolitan can claim "Someone knows I'm town" the next day and the Neap flipping corroborates that entirely without outing them. VC and tracker weren't particularly likely to be helpful, but did give a slight chance for a guilty. Rolecop with 3 announcing roles was an odd choice, but not a bad one because scum needed to learn about the VC/Neap before massclaim.

[Hectic]

I will be BoPing Hopkirk in every game from this point onward

[Hopkirk]

Hopkirk is a legend

Hopkirk is a legend

+1

Hopkirk is amazing.

im not really sure why people strongly TR'd Hopkirk at all, maybe someone can enlighten me there

are you feeling ok?

you two might want to use

this

size text if you want to throw shade or anything but locktown reads at me. less people will be able to see it that way so it'd be far less embarrassing for you when you realize you were wrong and have to shamefully redact the badness of your inability to read me

it's like the two of you don't understand the concept of a townblock or something. mutual townreads smh

Hopkirk you actually pocketed me kinda with this post lol. you were definitely in my PoE but this post kind of made me really reconsider on you lmao. i have a tendency to townread this kind of stuff for some reason

if there's anything townier than than responding to every push with jokey shade then i haven't found it, unless you count stuff like quoting your role pm
and if that's not townie enough then here's a few examples of how you can combine shade with quoting every single line of your role pm

- there's a reason that the mod's the only one who welcomed you to this game

- i'm not surprised you're a vanilla townie, that post was so boring i feel asleep the night before i started reading it

- i heard a townie's only weapons are their vote and their voice. based on that terrible vote and the nonsense you've been spouting i'm fairly sure you're unarmed

- my role pm told me where to find the game thread. it's kind of a shame that yours didn't link here: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... e_to_Mafia

- we should probably lethal (name), our win con says the last townie has to be alive and i'm not sure they qualify

- @implosion - are you

sure

everyone pmed you their alignment and role pregame? i'm not convinced everyone here would be able to work out how to do that
(note - follow this one up with implications that they must have confirmed via the scum quicktopic since you doubt they could work out how to send a pm which makes them confirmed scum. you should be able to get a couple of mislethals with this one)

I will be BoPing Hopkirk in every game from this point onward

I've been BoPing you in every game for months now.
Hopefully we're never town together and mutually agree another town member is scum, otherwise that's basically the entire town getting chain lethaled

[OkaPoka]

don't stop coming

They did stop coming. He was elimmed.

In the middle of my blood ritual, I received a vision, not from Cthulhu, oh great green Cthulhu, but from another.

In my visions there was a short man, I think he had to be nobility but he did have a strange name, fuckwad I believe? Nevertheless a short man who showed me a world of the green Cthulhu. The fields of grass were consumed by an ethereal swampy mist, truly vomit-inducing. And though I had hated the world at one time, an old warthog and strange time travelling doctor had ironically showed me the goodness of this god given earth. They may have been recent converts to the cult of the green Cthulhu, but in their conversion I realized that the world was not so deserving of such a terrible fate. Finally, I realized my eyes had been clouded by the call of Cthulhu and I had immediately put an end to my ritual.

But unfortunately, what has been done cannot be undone. The call of my green monstrous overlord has been heard, and it has been awaken from its eternal slumber. Cultists from around the world have been summoned to finish the ritual, and they lie in the shadows among us. I must call on my new allies and friends to put an end, an end to the final cries of the green Cthulhu cultists. They serve a singular purpose, to make sure that Cthulhu becomes love, Cthulhu becomes life, and that is something we simply cannot let happen.

[implosion]

The first setup had more iterations, this one I came up shortly after the first game got cancelled and it only needed like two changes (the neapolitan was originally ungated and the mafia activated bulletproof was originally some kind of mailman).

The first setup was actually originally conceived as a mini when I thought I'd be moderating a mini normal and changed to a large at some point, and the visitor was originally part of that mini. I'm not sure if I'm gonna release that thread but here's at least a tidbit from it where I'm talking about the compulsive visitor:

Would have the effect of making the town roles more potentially useful, adding in more play around claiming and counterclaiming, giving scum a modicum of negative utility over not being able to pick their killer fully the first couple nights, and giving scum a bit of ability to speculate about the setup or try to pull off a coordinated fakeclaim with the tracker if they're feeling spicy.

[Cephrir]

don't stop coming

They did stop coming. He was elimmed.

In the middle of my blood ritual, I received a vision, not from Cthulhu, oh great green Cthulhu, but from another.

In my visions there was a short man, I think he had to be nobility but he did have a strange name, fuckwad I believe? Nevertheless a short man who showed me a world of the green Cthulhu. The fields of grass were consumed by an ethereal swampy mist, truly vomit-inducing. And though I had hated the world at one time, an old warthog and strange time travelling doctor had ironically showed me the goodness of this god given earth. They may have been recent converts to the cult of the green Cthulhu, but in their conversion I realized that the world was not so deserving of such a terrible fate. Finally, I realized my eyes had been clouded by the call of Cthulhu and I had immediately put an end to my ritual.

But unfortunately, what has been done cannot be undone. The call of my green monstrous overlord has been heard, and it has been awaken from its eternal slumber. Cultists from around the world have been summoned to finish the ritual, and they lie in the shadows among us. I must call on my new allies and friends to put an end, an end to the final cries of the green Cthulhu cultists. They serve a singular purpose, to make sure that Cthulhu becomes love, Cthulhu becomes life, and that is something we simply cannot let happen.

ur excellent btw

[innocentvillager]

i really enjoyed this game and plist overall!

would be very happy to play with literally every single one of you again

hopefully not when im scum tho! ill be too obv

[hercule]

this game took forever!! it wasn't the most fun rolling scum back to back but the mafia team totally kicked ass. glad y'all pulled out the victory. this table was totally stacked, I was impressed with many town players while I was playing. I didn't follow too much after I subbed since I was pretty busy but seeing LLD limmed after her incredible entrance putting me (and therefore Luca) on the back ropes right off the bat was definitely a triumph

[OkaPoka]

miss u already bb

[hercule]

miss u already bb

absolutely my pleasure playing against you and with you

[hercule]

the polarization around my slot was so hilarious to me. I can only really speak about day one but there was something inherently joyful about mastina's defense of my slot that I would never ever change my playstyle that much, with LLD saying "bro idc about last game he's scummy as fuck" with all the other side plots like ceph vs. mast and the mafia team just trying to shitpost for as long as possible. really had fun during my time in the game

[OkaPoka]

yeah this game was very fun to be a part of, hell last game was pretty fun for town at least

on one hand im sad that we couldn't play out the inevitable insanity that would follow when the vibers would eventually purge the half of the playerlist that simply were not vibing and realize, wait the game isn't over and the ensuing chaos would've been absolutely glorious

but on the other hand we got the insanity of this game's d1

[OkaPoka]

and for what its worth hercule, u did pocket me game 1

i just wanted to be annoying