Newbie 2114: Life Imitates Art...in Memes! -- End

[Ircher]

VOTE: bewolkt

[Ircher]

VOTE: DragonEater70

[Ircher]

VOTE: Aeronaut

[Ircher]

Woahhh

Finallyyyy

VOTE: bewolkt

VOTE: First Time

VOTE: Elpis


VOTE: Patchwork

Don't vote: KawaiiKame, all the SE's


Yeah starting RVS with a real random post. Please feel free to criticize my post.

This feels stilted. Are you self-conscious scum?

Don't vote: KawaiiKame, all the SE's

Why?

I like you so I'm not voting you.

What makes you like Kawaii?

lol I should've said "getting hung up on 'generating content during so-called RVS' is sad and baaad"

This is bc of 2 points

1. "Content" will generate itself during RVS and
2. "Content" is a silly word ppl use to mean "real shit" and/or content can be literally anything

IMO, DE's very first so-called RVS post is "content" in and of itself

Every single time ppl type a single word in this site it will tell you a bit about them/their alignment (if you're in-game), that's why I think the phrasing is poor and a tad silly and not necessarily Scum

however

if you look at with my opinion in mind, try to wonder who would try to start a game saying "meh, this first little while is what I suck at so don't be too hard on me if RVS is weird/I am not generating much 'useful content'"

Happy to engage

VOTE: DE70

Nice backtrack. You nearly fooled me, but I can see right through you.

Voting for someone brand new just because they don't have airtight knowledge of site meta seems... A weird way to go

Why "weird"? Why not call it out for what it is: suspicious?

Hi Ircher.
You might want to add some reasoning to your vote. And also say it's E-2.
Thanks.

Nah, I'll pass on the reasoning.
It's not common on site to announce E-2 votes.

I don't feel confident about it, but it's RVS, yeah? It's my first game so I'm still trying to pick up on just how low reason the first round votes should be

You're doing great! Keep it up!

Also, consider my RVS vote on ircher a serious one at this point.

@Ircher do you feel like joining us?

Joining you at what? Voting myself? I think I'll pass.

Is there a way to unvote and change your vote, actually? I don't love the silent swap to voting against Aero the moment they were asked to be involved in discussion

You can just vote someone new to change votes. If you really want to unvote, use unvote tags:

Code: Select all

[uv][/uv]

VOTE: Maestro

[Ircher]

Then, what is your conclusion?

[Ircher]

I also think it's pretty interesting that you are refusing to elaborate on things in a newbie game. Feels like the town motivated approach is to want to really flesh out your thoughts so people who are new to the site meta will get what you mean.

I disagree. It's a perfectly acceptable and widespread play style to be conservative with one's thoughts. You're imposing your vision of what town should do on me rather than thinking about what town actually does.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Aeronaut

Again, I would like to hear your reasons for this vote.

Is there a way to unvote and change your vote, actually? I don't love the silent swap to voting against Aero the moment they were asked to be involved in discussion

You could use the unvote tags.

Woahhh

Finallyyyy

VOTE: bewolkt

VOTE: First Time

VOTE: Elpis


VOTE: Patchwork

Don't vote: KawaiiKame, all the SE's


Yeah starting RVS with a real random post. Please feel free to criticize my post.

1. This feels stilted. Are you self-conscious scum?

Don't vote: KawaiiKame, all the SE's

Why?

I like you so I'm not voting you.

2. What makes you like Kawaii?

lol I should've said "getting hung up on 'generating content during so-called RVS' is sad and baaad"

This is bc of 2 points

1. "Content" will generate itself during RVS and
2. "Content" is a silly word ppl use to mean "real shit" and/or content can be literally anything

IMO, DE's very first so-called RVS post is "content" in and of itself

Every single time ppl type a single word in this site it will tell you a bit about them/their alignment (if you're in-game), that's why I think the phrasing is poor and a tad silly and not necessarily Scum

however

if you look at with my opinion in mind, try to wonder who would try to start a game saying "meh, this first little while is what I suck at so don't be too hard on me if RVS is weird/I am not generating much 'useful content'"

Happy to engage

VOTE: DE70

3. Nice backtrack. You nearly fooled me, but I can see right through you.

Voting for someone brand new just because they don't have airtight knowledge of site meta seems... A weird way to go

Why "weird"? Why not call it out for what it is: suspicious?

Hi Ircher.
You might want to add some reasoning to your vote. And also say it's E-2.
Thanks.

4. Nah, I'll pass on the reasoning.
5. It's not common on site to announce E-2 votes.

I don't feel confident about it, but it's RVS, yeah? It's my first game so I'm still trying to pick up on just how low reason the first round votes should be

You're doing great! Keep it up!

Also, consider my RVS vote on ircher a serious one at this point.

@Ircher do you feel like joining us?

Joining you at what? Voting myself? I think I'll pass.

Is there a way to unvote and change your vote, actually? I don't love the silent swap to voting against Aero the moment they were asked to be involved in discussion

You can just vote someone new to change votes. If you really want to unvote, use unvote tags:

Code: Select all

[uv][/uv]

VOTE: Maestro

This post is a bit weird. Not necessarily suspicious. Are you simultaneously attacking 3 different people?

I've numbered your points for ease of answering.
1. Nope, I am self conscious town who enjoys goofy, sometimes scummy, openings.
2. Nothing in particular, maybe just their name.
3. Does this mean you scum Maestro? Then why did you vote Aeronaut earlier?
4. Why? Sayong the reasoning helps the game get going.
5. Idk, last game I played we did do it.

Apologies for not trimming the quote, but it's a pain on mobile.

1. I wasn't expecting you to respond to that question, but your response is noted.
   
2. I wanted to check whether there was a game-relevant reason you weren't voting Kawaii at the time. I'll take this to mean there wasn't.
   
3. Maybe I scum read Maestro, maybe not. In the early game, it is difficult to read people, so I think it makes more sense to take a stance early on regardless of what one's actual read is. For both the Aeronaut and Dragon votes, they are just votes. I had only briefly skimmed at that point.
   
4. See above. I also just don't think there's a strong need to justify what are essentially random votes at the beginning of the game.

Yeah the jump on me is laughably forced when what Ircher calls a backtrack was clearly

requested

c l a r i f i c a t i o n that I offered to another player

I may be easy to get one over on sometimes but if Aero and Ircher are same-alignment I will eat my hat, more tomorrow, wonder if they’ll say they can “see through me” here too - I actually LoLed at that btw, thanks for that

VOTE: Ircher

I think your reaction here says a lot about your alignment. What makes you think Aeronaut and I are not both the same alignment?

1: Ircher link me a relatively-recent scum game of yours please - if you don’t or if you’re all “conservative” in your next post I’ll just go find one myself and consider it a scumclaim

For any Newbies wondering, the post somebody made about it being proTown to post more and not be “conservative” with one’s thoughts is 100% apt and while I’m not ever advocating for “forcing” others to play like me… as Aero said it makes you seem like scum (and kinda a butthead) so I feel no qualms voting you for

those

reasons and encourage you to be like… an asset to us all instead of an impediment?

That’s what it comes down to

2: If you think you can solve the game all by yourself, or just by giving Town the bear minimum amt of insight into your thoughts or motivations… yeah you can eat a hammer vote today for that if nothin changes, I think lol it’s as good a reason as any

1. You could check my wiki page: User:Ircher/Archive2022, but here's also another game for reference: viewtopic.php?p=13514709#p13514709
   
2. I'm not sure why you are spinning this as I'm encouraging others to not participate. I was just saying it's a valid stance to not be 100% open with your thoughts, and you'll find many other players who play the same way. I also don't get how you are construing my comments as indicating that I think I can perfectly solve the game without anyone's else's help. That's quite a leap from choosing to play a certain way because that's how I play.

Also, I thought I should point out:

Ircher is currently at E-1, which means one more vote would hammer and end day 1

Personally, I'd prefer to at least wait for this new person to replace in or for a little more input from others before we actually eliminate someone.

So, let me get this straight. You think you're on an E-1 wagon. On a person with six posts. On page four. Less than a day into the game being open. With a slot that hasn't done anything yet.

And your instinct is to make an offhand comment about it because you want "a little more input"? Rather than, say, UNVOTE?

VOTE: Aeronaut which should put you both at 3 because I don't see more than Maestro voting on Ircher since the 2 count on Ircher at the top of the page.

Meh, I think it's perfectly fine to keep your vote on an E-1 wagon unless you really think someone is going to hammer. Unvoting would suggest your read changed which clearly is not the case for Aeronaut here.

Oh nah, I just was trying to be friendly. Not to mention though, a lot of times people reveal things by how they introduce themselves. I always feel like the more we can get people talking, the easier it will be to figure out who's scum.

Like how does this post even mesh with being so cavalier later about the possible end of day? Do you want us to talk or not?

1: This feels like it's in bad faith to me. Clearly, I was trying to avoid the day ending quickly. Unvoting just takes the pressure off, and I don't plan on doing that if I believe he's scum. Because then if that's the case, he can slink back into the shadows. Usually people reveal the most when they're under pressure, town or scum.

I don't know, something I always look for in games is someone who is trying to look productive, but isn't actually doing much, especially if they just got called out for it. I also am more apt to push him now that he's mentioned he doesn't want to share his thoughts. That is someone who will be hard to read down the road, and so I'd like to try right now to get a good grasp of whether I think he's town or scum.

This seems totally backwards. Down the road, there will be more to read. Important Things will have happened. They'll have had positions on Important Things. Pushing someone right off the bat because you think they'll be hard to read is just lazy.

This is a pretty common.tactic in mafia, actually. If you look around the site a bit, you'll notice that a lot of folks push people day one for info. Are you saying that we out to just not push anyone to try to understand their motivations until after we've already eliminated someone?

Ircher link me a relatively-recent scum game of yours please - if you don’t or if you’re all “conservative” in your next post I’ll just go find one myself and consider it a scumclaim

For any Newbies wondering, the post somebody made about it being proTown to post more and not be “conservative” with one’s thoughts is 100% apt and while I’m not ever advocating for “forcing” others to play like me… as Aero said it makes you seem like scum (and kinda a butthead) so I feel no qualms voting you for

those

reasons and encourage you to be like… an asset to us all instead of an impediment?

That’s what it comes down to

If you think you can solve the game all by yourself, or just by giving Town the bear minimum amt of insight into your thoughts or motivations… yeah you can eat a hammer vote today for that if nothin changes, I think lol it’s as good a reason as any

Can I vote you too? I want to vote you too. This is so lazy. Is that really what you want to teach newbies, to just eliminate people who play a way you don't like dealing with? Great way to lose games you didn't need to.

2: Eliminating people who aren't doing a lot for town poses a much lower risk though, because then you aren't taking out a strong voice for the next day. You wouldn't usually do this if you're not also scum reading them.

1. It did not feel bad faith to me. Maybe if it was a Day 3/4 stance, I would feel differently, but taking an aggressive stance Day 1 seems perfectly reasonable. It's better than being wishy-washy.
   
2. I would like to add that it's also worse for information. People can take the easy way out, so you gain less in terms of associative reads.

Can I vote you too? I want to vote you too. This is so lazy. Is that really what you want to teach newbies, to just eliminate people who play a way you don't like dealing with? Great way to lose games you didn't need to.

but isn't it antitown to not contribute, aka be more conservative with your thoughts? ircher in this case isn't really doing that and refuses to do ti

I think there's a critical difference between being conservative with one's thoughts and not contributing. The former isn't implying a free pass to do nothing. It just means you need to read between the lines more.

I don't plan on doing that if I believe he's scum.

so do you believe if he's scum?

Yes. Especially since he has not come back to the game since that interaction.

So I'm scum... because I don't check this game every five minutes since I work and sleep... Like, you're fine to scum read me on my content, but I don't think a 24 hour interval between posts (give or take a few hours) is long enough to call someone out for "not posting".

scum are also "not doing a lot for town" a lot of the time though, and town can also just as easily be unconfident and shaky in their reads, but does that make them worthy of an elimination? Hell No!
i agree on that, but voting and hanging players who happen to be less active or post a little less is a massive no to me, because that's just dumb. if someone's inactive, you can't guess the reasons behind their inactivity. you have to give them the benefit of the doubt, because you can'tt ell when someone is lurking or if they have actual Life Things, and if it's the latter and you think it's the former, that'd just be rude.

This isn't always the case. It's definitely fair to call people out for lurking if that is what they are doing, but you have to keep the time interval in mind (and maybe check their activity elsewhere on site, but please note that if you do check their activity elsewhere on site, you aren't allowed to state it as an in-game reason for scum reading them).

This could be an unpopular idea, but I'd personally like it if everyone who hasn't given much of a reads list yet, could provide a quick one. It would be a great thing to look back on on day 2 or 3 after a few flips

Town - Aureal
Scum - Maestro

Mostly null on everyone else.

[Ircher]

Also, @Bewolkt, you are still voting for dragon. Do you still think they're scum? I liked your discussion with them.regarding reaction posts, but I'm curious about what you're thinking of them and others after that interaction.

Just posted a readlist with some thoughts on him and others. I am happy with my vote but I to vote forward let's VOTE: Elpis

Can you clarify what you mean here by "to move forward"? What was wrong with keeping your vote on Dragon if you are still happy with it? What do you expect voting Elpis will accomplish here that makes it better than keeping your vote on your scum read Dragon?

Also, I thought I should point out:

Ircher is currently at E-1, which means one more vote would hammer and end day 1

Personally, I'd prefer to at least wait for this new person to replace in or for a little more input from others before we actually eliminate someone.

This is tai to me, not wanting the day to end without substantial discussion helps town a lot, not much info can be made on fast eliminations outside of vote flips, slight chance exists that this is scum saving scum but with everything Aero said this is highly unlikely

Do you think there would be a major difference in how this game has played out so far if Aeronaut did not make that post?

[Ircher]

VC 1.4

Sunlit Window by Louis Ritman, and Man Checks Mobile Phone

Aeronaut (2): KawaiiKame, patchwork
Ircher (1): Maestro
Maestro (1): Ircher
bewolkt (1): DragonEater70
Elpis (1): bewolkt

Not Voting (4):

Aureal, Aeronaut, Elpis

With 9 alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate

Deadline: March 10, Noon Eastern Time

Countdown: (expired on 2023-03-10 09:00:00)

Mod Notes

• Let me know if Vote Counts are in error
  
• I've come down with Covid. I will try to be timely with vote counts, etc. GuyInFreezer will step in as needed. If you have any questions, please PM both of us to insure your answers are swift!
  
• 

So patch and Kawaii... Are you scum reading Aeronaut right now, and if not, why are your votes still there?

[Ircher]

i think the aero vote was rvs i cant remember putting a vote on him UNVOTE:

yeah :/ this entire game has been stagnating a ton and i don't really know what to say to get it going

So rather than unvoting, why not put your vote somewhere useful? It would help keep the game moving.

[Ircher]

I would also agree about the assessment that kawaii and bewolkt have been moderately lurky, but I would understand that because, again, there's very little to actually go off of aside from aero acknowledging a hammer and not fixing it, maestro being a bit prickly to deal with, and ircher having an opinion that at this point seems to be relatively understood.

This is a decent summary of the game so far. What's your conclusions or analysis from this information?

I would like to encourage people to use their vote more actively! The game is stagnating because there is no momentum. To generate momentum, we need wagons.

As for Aureal's post, my conclusion is that for Maestro, you didn't really scum read him. You were just frustrated with his take. For Aeronaut, you unvoted to avoid the day ending early, but you saw something that makes you hesitant to re-vote there. Your current lack of a vote indicates that you don't have any strong leads at this point.

[Ircher]

I'm still fine with my vote on Maestro for the time being.

[Ircher]

Aureal’s 270 is laughably forced, over-justified, and the part about Scum being the inactives makes no sense but *thumbs up*

Why doesn't that make sense?

Did you get a chance to compare my play this game to the game I linked you yet? What were your thoughts there?

[Ircher]

1. for me aureal/bewolkt feel the most towny to me. aureal is +town for pointing out her own inconsistency and trying to promote discussion generally, and i like her active push on aero. it's a little strange how she didn't really follow up on the "thought exercise" to me, but maybe she's just a little busy, and i'll give her the benefit of the doubt.
2. actually i'm gonna be honest i haven't been paying attention to ircher or maestro at all but i don't like how maestro's not doing anything

1. Aureal did follow up on her thought exercise.See below.
2. Why aren't you paying attention to me? Do you really have no thoughts on my alignment?

I thought you removed your vote to avoid having Aero at E-1 like you said. I hadn’t thought before about why you didn’t vote anywhere else tbh but it makes sense that if you’re arguing that the reason for elimination should not be playstyle, then you’re not going to sr Maestro because his playstyle is focusing on the people that do not contribute that much.

What leads you to say Maestro's play style is focused on people who don't contribute that much?

His post #87

If I'd known prods don't happen on weekends in this game I don't know if I'd have been so lenient but I think I've wasted enough time waiting now and I'm just going to VOTE: Maestro.

As for the not voting him earlier thing, it was a combination of things. I unvoted to avoid Aero being E-1 and didn't think to vote someone else right away since my focus was on avoiding the possibility of a quickhammer. After a little while I remembered what I'd thought about Maestro, but decided to hold off a while to see if anyone poked me about it. Nobody did, so I decided to use it to poke other people for opinions; and came to the conclusion that our scum are probably not very active/aggressive, or have already decided they don't want to bother trying to cast shade on me. Which also leads me to be more willing to vote Maestro here.

[Ircher]

Pretty sure it's Maestro/Dragon at this point tbh.

[Ircher]

Pretty sure it's Maestro/Dragon at this point tbh.

explain why instead of making an unwarranted claim. not saying i neccesarily disagree, that's an interesting take and i want to see why you think th at

I want to give Maestro a chance to speak and redeem themselves first.

[Ircher]

You don't need to "defend" yourself. I'm not asking for that.