Large Normal 212: Korts' Geriatrics - Game Over @1831

[Momrangal]

Oh I get it ... Magna is just like Mathdino and RC. Well now at least I can calibrate my analysis of his posts through that particular filter.

Sorry, I came across this and I feel the need to share it because of irony

Vote Count

(3) Lycanfire - Eddie Cane, Old Man, Ginngie
(3) Pine - Momrangal, roflcopter, Kison
(1) Eddie Cane - Lycanfire
(1) OnTheMark - MagnaofIllusion
(1) roflcopter - OnTheMark

not voting:

RayFrost, Axelrod, Pine

7 to lynch

Deadline is 6 PM EST on Friday the 29th of June.

[Momrangal]

So.

Page 6 and my only question is why Axlerod lives. From those few pages, I see suspicion towards his slot, a light town read from MOI (not sure why) and despite people scum reading him it doesn't look like he was probably wagoned? Based off Eddie being wagoned and KMD somehow getting lynched

maybe dont ask a dumb question along the lines of "why did this person who had some suspicion extremely early in the game not get lynched?", doubly so when skimming the vote counts answers your question.

I don't do vcas and I don't know how to get reads off them. I'm almost at pg 30 now, and as far as I can see, axle has gotten steady pressure and still despite the fact that no one is hard defending him, despite the fact that no one really even has him as town he still isn't being lynched. Even MoIs TR on him degenerated enough that he could place a vote on him.

I also noticed the wagon on you and PJ (now Ginnie ) had hard pushed for you and tried to get you lynched because of how easy it seemed to wagon you.

I'm trying to get into the game, even though it's hard as hell to get through the game on my phone (my only device owned) so no one really willing to interact with me other than a welcome feels a little... Don't want to say demotivating but irritating.

I also think that, if there was an outstanding force that prevented the axle lynch from occurring, it isn't to much to point it out to me and ultimately help me get into a better mindset to the aura of this game

[OnTheMark]

Hey momrangal

What do you make of copter chica?

[Momrangal]

34.

Also lean town. I like his early game, and the fact that he thanks someone for scumreading him (I forget who) hits pretty close to home.

He's also been the strongest advocater of the axle lynch (even though I know associations before flip is unideal) he just feels situationally town to me

[roflcopter]

i am situationally awesome is what i am

[roflcopter]

i mean just look at my avatar i'm pretty sure korts made it

[Axelrod]

MoI

I am not scum

Please don't make me prove it

I multi-quote tagged this as I was reading because it stood out. Obvious question was "what do you mean 'don't make me prove it'. You can prove it? Why wouldn't you prove it?" Etc, etc. Wtf.

I feel you missed my point

And then I was going to say "I think I missed your point too."

look forward to axelrod supporting or not supporting an actual pine wagon

Also looking forward to you calling it scummy whichever way I might come down.

Ugh fine

I can prove I'm Town

Please don't push me to reveal more

And then here's the rub.

Claims like this just bug the hell out of me. I'm not saying that it's not

possible

for you to have a claim that both (1) proves you are Town and (2) would be a bad idea for you to claim right now. But they aren't exactly common. And we already have a PGO claim, a 1/2 Gunsmith claim (which has at least been semi-demonstrated), and a 1/2 Cop claim in this game.

I am a mechanics oriented player by nature. I like more information, not less with assurances it will all make sense later.

Ah, figured it out - Friendly Neighbor. I'm not that either.

There are half a dozen roles off the top of my head which fit my soft. Stop digging into it, it's not pro-Town.

You are wrong here. It is completely reasonable and "pro-Town" to question a vague claim like this. What's the alternative? Take it on faith, because we'll totally understand when the time comes that you

do

have to claim (which isn't now, but apparently will totally be coming later.)

Again, it's possible, but wtf? This is like Old Man all over again. He had barely any pressure on him and came out with that IC claim, and of course when someone claims that you say "all right, just wait until he "proves" it. And then he did his little reversal...

I feel like if I had a role that could "prove" it was Town, and someone else claimed IC, it would have raised more than a few of my eyebrows. Even if you weren't technically an IC yourself, because a game can only have so many roles that can "prove" themselves Town.

Can you at least answer this, Pine, without blowing whatever secret you are trying to keep: Approximately how long should we have to wait for this?

Besides..."I can prove it" technically doesn't have anything to do with the mechanics of my role. Suffice to say there *are* no mechanics to my role.

I really would prefer to just leave it at that. When I claim it all this will make sense.

I hope so. But, again, just how long do you think that might be?

I also don't understand why you said this in that spot. What did you have, 2 votes?

[Eddie Cane]

I also don't understand why you said this in that spot. What did you have, 2 votes?

This is my thing.

I was never in serious danger of getting lynched in 2006

directly implies you were in danger of being lynched here, but your wagon in that game was bigger than your wagon has ever been here, and first babyclaiming (which in itself I am not calling unreasonable, just the fact you pulled it in one of two congruent games) followed by PR softing after 1 or 2 votes... what? I don't think you ever had a wagon bigger than a couple votes D1 either.

and they were very different circumstances.

and they were very different circumstances.

what was

very

different between the two toxic, apathetic cesspools of subs?

There are half a dozen roles off the top of my head which fit my soft. Stop digging into it, it's not pro-Town.

In a normal game, the only two roles I can recall ever existing that confirm their alignment as town are IC and FN. If you were either of those, there was no benefit softing there because if you got l-1'd you could just conf town yourself (generally still valid in the case of FN). It doesn't make sense for you to be either of those though or you'd be more skeptical of OM's IC claim than you were since you essentially CC it. You're experienced enough to know all of this though.

Besides..."I can prove it" technically doesn't have anything to do with the mechanics of my role. Suffice to say there *are* no mechanics to my role.

I really would prefer to just leave it at that. When I claim it all this will make sense.

This is not pro-town. Leave it then, I don't know your role pm. You'll claim at l-1 or l-2 like every other competent player under normal circumstances, if you're town hopefully with less anti-town softing!

Pine and rotflcopter aren’t scum together

How caught up are you now?(I don't think they're scum together either)

Thoughts on Pine are mechanics I am backing off

mechanics are the best though

I don't do vcas and I don't know how to get reads off them.

this is not what I said. skimming votecounts to see Axel was in fact a wagon at several occasions is not the same as VCA.

no one really willing to interact with me other than a welcome feels a little... Don't want to say demotivating but irritating.

this is wack. there is nothing to interact with, you're a not caught up player with a not very involved catchup.

I also think that, if there was an outstanding force that prevented the axle lynch from occurring, it isn't to much to point it out to me and ultimately help me get into a better mindset to the aura of this game

tldr;
rofl: waaah vote axel
some ppl: okay
hito: lycan is still scummier
some other people: indubitably
*dual wagons going into dl*
tammy: hey uh nobody likes either of your lynches lets do kmd instead
hito: waah
rofl: waah
everyone else::lol:
*6 hours later*
KMD - vanilla townie - lynched day 1

[OnTheMark]

I used to be good with mechanics when I can devote my focus.

The past few games I haven’t been able to.

Mechanics generally are good but I need to focus just on reading.

Eddie I am just trying to keep my head above water.

I think Axel/Pine and Pine/Axel is TVs or svt

Not sure which

I am just doing gut for now trying to figure out what exactly is going on.

I feel like gut says Magna Pine copter but that doesn’t make brain sense.

[OnTheMark]

Outside shot Magna Axel copter.

[Kison]

Sup OTM & Ray. Thanks for helping to revitalize the game!

Twyin / Lycan's I think is much more likely to be alignment indicative given the way both flaked.

What about Tywin's flake looked scummy to you? I thought the same thing initially but it looks like he legit just completely siteflaked.

I think Kison is bussing.

You gonna leave us all hanging on the details of this theory?

Looks like he thought KMD town Lycan scum.

Is this a prevailing thought? Does anyone agree lycan scum? Can someone summarize the Lucan case?

You need not look much further than Tywin's couple of posts to see why that slot is scummy. What little he played the game was super narrow wall posts of hogwash, mostly attacking Hito and justifying his early Eddie Cane town read & holding inconsistent views to do so.

I also think that, if there was an outstanding force that prevented the axle lynch from occurring, it isn't to much to point it out to me and ultimately help me get into a better mindset to the aura of this game

From memory it was mostly that there was a competing wagon on Twin/Lycan going. MoI also wasn't feeling the Axel wagon till later in the day. I don't recall anyone else explicitly opposing it but I could be forgetting someone.

I agree though, with whoever pointed out that Lycan & Axel both seemed pretty resistant while KMD went up in flames super quickly. That definitely has me worried.

UNVOTE: CooLDoG
VOTE: Pine

I'm cool with this wagon. Let's see where it goes. I thought Pine looked okay most of day 1 till he had to take his leave of absence, but I don't think he's giving the effort I'd expect from town. And I say that as town who has been pretty low effort all game. When I read his posts I don't get the idea that he is trying to figure out who the scum are. Not sure what to make of the soft claim. I don't know why he felt it was necessary to reveal all of this with what... you were at 3 votes? I'm not a mechanic junkie so I really don't know what it could be and honestly am not super interested by it either.

[Pine]

The number of votes on me is irrelevant. With the low energy of this game, every vote counts, and bad momentum needs to be stalled early. I was particularly focused on MoI, who is locktown to me and critical to the townbloc which *should* exist.

Besides. I haven’t revealed anything, any if it comes to it, I’m expendable anyway. I don’t have any active powers, and will happily eat the night shot if thirsty scum target me. The only reason I haven’t fullclaimed is to keep them guessing.

[roflcopter]

cool move whoever you are encouraging me to vote pine so you can just shade me for it

[Axelrod]

The number of votes on me is irrelevant. With the low energy of this game, every vote counts, and bad momentum needs to be stalled early. I was particularly focused on MoI, who is locktown to me and critical to the townbloc which *should* exist.

Besides. I haven’t revealed anything, any if it comes to it, I’m expendable anyway. I don’t have any active powers, and will happily eat the night shot if thirsty scum target me. The only reason I haven’t fullclaimed is to keep them guessing.

See, this just sounds like such bunk. You start with "Don't make me claim" almost like it's a threat, or something real bad will happen if you did, and then "I can

prove

I'm town" like it's going to be something dramatic - but now is apparently not the time. And now you're like "eh, I'm expendable" and "I'm just trying to keep the scum guessing" with no "active" powers anyway....

Is the answer to my question "I have no timeframe for when it would be appropriate for me to actually claim?"

[roflcopter]

pssst axel now that there's a real wagon happening you should vote for pine

[OnTheMark]

@Kison - Yeah because I was probably messed up on painkillers when I wrote that so I don't remember what I was thinking.

MoI Pine Axel? Is this a thing?

Intent to vote for Pine just need to know where he's at.

@mod vote count please

[Pine]

What do you want to know, OTM?

[Korts]

Vote Count

(3) Lycanfire - Eddie Cane, Old Man, Ginngie
(3) Pine - Momrangal, roflcopter, Kison
(1) Eddie Cane - Lycanfire
(1) OnTheMark - MagnaofIllusion
(1) roflcopter - OnTheMark

not voting:

RayFrost, Axelrod, Pine

7 to lynch

Deadline is 6 PM EST on Friday the 29th of June.

[Momrangal]

ANY POSTS TALKING ABOUT AXELROD NOT RESPONDING TO CASES OR NOT PUTTING IN EFFORT AGAINST MOI OR ROFL IS DEADASS WRONG AND I'M ACTUALLY STARTING TO TAKE ISSUE WITH THE FACT THAT ROFL DECIDED TO LAUGH OFF AND INSULT AXEL FOR GETTING MAD THAT NO ONE WAS LOOKING INTO THE POINTS HE REFUTED

This is pretty important.

GINNGIIEEEE

I missed all these points, or probably glazed over where it happened. I probably saw his responses as why me/fry me. If this is true, then this could be a solid reason why Town!axle lynch didn't go through.

It could also be grounds to reevaluate my read on rofl

[Momrangal]

Kison:

So. What's up with this pine wagon?

Can't read my preds mind, and I feel like the wagon on him is unwarranted.

Kison, if the difficulty of the two wagons worried you, why do you decide to go after pine, and not lycan who was the other person who had a hard time getting lynched?

What are everyones thoughts on Lycan/tywin?

[OnTheMark]

What do you want to know, OTM?

Where you were at meant where in l-levels you were.

I didn’t want to accidentally hammer you.

VOTE: Pine

[OnTheMark]

Kison:

So. What's up with this pine wagon?

Can't read my preds mind, and I feel like the wagon on him is unwarranted.

Kison, if the difficulty of the two wagons worried you, why do you decide to go after pine, and not lycan who was the other person who had a hard time getting lynched?

What are everyones thoughts on Lycan/tywin?

I think I need one more flip to figure it out.

[Old Man]

Am fine with either the Lycan or the Pine wagon.

[Eddie Cane]

lycans gonna flip tomorrow

[MagnaofIllusion]

So first a catch-up of various issues –

On why Tywin’s replace-out is a reasonable to be indicative of scum:

In a non-Open set-up a Town investigation role is pretty much the golden ticket to not being lynched, especially Day 1 unless you are playing in a game with really, really bad Town players. If you think this isn’t the case stop reading because your POV will never reconcile with mine. You can see evidence of the strength of an Investigation claim in OldMan’s continued survival today – even with his bad play and Day 1 IC fake-claim people generally are willing to let him live for at least a few days til his claim is busted or proves likely true.

So put yourself in Tywin’s shoes as hypothetical Town Even Night Cop on Day 1. He’s getting pressure and despite his attempts to explain his thoughts the pressure is not abating. Town Tywin knows regardless of how bad his play is he’s got his claim in his pocket. And as hypo-Town has to believe he will not get counterclaimed by scum because that is effectively a death sentence for one scum by Day 2 (setting aside the current potential conflict with OldMan’s claim which Day 1 was unknown).

Is it possible Tywin Town just decided the game wasn’t fun and flaked despite having a powerful Town role? Yes. Is it also possible that Tywin isn’t a Town Investigative role and felt flaking and getting a potential replacement halo for his slot was better served than trying to continue to fake hunting for scum in the face of pressure. There is enough reasonable scum motivation in the way Tywin’s flake developed that I am considering it as part of my overall read on that slot.

No replace out / flake is purely alignment indicative (and if it is that player should probably be banned for using Trust tells if it is Town indicative or quit playing Mafia if scum indicative). But the nature of Tywin’s flake given the subsequent claim by Lycan puts it as within the realm of reason.

--

@Mom

– I’ve already laid out in my ISO at various points why behaviorally I scum read Axel – his posting reads to me more like scum faking hunting than someone actually involved in trying to find scum. But situationally I am at the point I only think he’s scum if he’s scum with Lycan’s slot.

I’ll be very curious to see your reads upon finishing your read-up

@OTM

– Please refresh my memory of any other games besides Thaw or The Thing where we have played together not as scum partners. I am having a hard understanding how you honestly believe I’m an easy read when we’ve played like 2 non-partner games together that I can recall and one of those you replaced in and went bug-nutty with pushing for claim information that caused you to out a Town PR and get lynched as Town. The only other game that came to mind was Stephen Universe 2 and you were dead before I replaced in. I mean … maybe you honestly believe it but I don’t understand how you do.

And regarding 1363 – why in the hell would you think that it being a scum claim given the information was readily available early Day 1 and busted right then for obvious reasons? Also why do you think scum would just unbidden fake-claim something not possibly in the game?

Frankly until LYLO or the day before you should not be this interested in setup speculation in a non-Open game if you are Town.

@ROFL

– Why are you bothering to ask Axel to vote Pine if you think they are scum partners?

--

Next Task – do a sanity check for myself on the whole player-list using Hito’s reads and assuming Lycan / Axel as both Town and Scum to see where I think that leaves me.