NY214: Project Pinecone (Game over! Town wins!)

[Taly]

profii

can you walk me through your thinking on your

Elbirn to L-1

vote?

Because your posts heavily imply that you haven't read my ISO assessments in depth.

Yet you seem completely fine with the

Elbirn

under the pretense of what

I

have to say about it.

Somethzing fishy is going on with the wagon. It’s weird that no one else gets a look in by the time a player gets that close to L-1

That's because scum has probably bussed

Elbrin

when the wagon got traction and nobody who's townread

Elbirn

or has strong reasoning for it has posted that in the thread.

Literally, that's what I've been wanting to hear, and why I wasn't 100% set on the lynch.

Bearing in mind your slot was heavily scum read then replaced out and you are the main wagon driver - I have paranoia

So I'm being scumread STILL off the basis of

Dave

? You're kidding, right?

Then day 2 a LOT of PRs seem to be knocking about scum probably don’t know where they can push safely or not

Honestly, I feel like I've been the ONLY person to push for a lynch or major wagon this dayphase.

Your point doesn't hold strongly in my eyes since there's PLENTY of people that seem iffy about pushing somewhere at all.

Like I am as town, I am tunnely as scum, but not this ballsy.

So maybe Elbirn is scared scum who has just gone awol since their kill failed and they lost a dude and a load of PRs surfaced - though they did lose a PR so I guess they have some too

This reasoning makes little sense to me at all in your later posting, it seems like you're townreading

Elbirn

now and shifting a narrative based off that.

So your case fits, tbh it’s borderline insulting and misrepresentative to say I’ve not read your case - tell me why, if we are reading exactly the same words you are expecting me to come to different conclusions? I feel like you are shading me a bit unfairly there

Yeah, I do think you're not reading my case in depth, OR engaging and asking questions to me about that specifically.

You keep bringing up possibilities around the merit of my case but not actually dive into the reasons and motives behind it. Considering that you L-1'd

Elbirn

, the point of your posts feel like a huge inconsistency because your reads aren't stated off concrete reasoning.

And I do think the pretense of your read on me based off MY predecessor - which was weeks ago, IS unfair here. Followed by you holding me to a standard that you won't follow yourself. You say it's off for me to NOT want a FLASHLYNCH to happen on

Elbirn

but then proceed to L-1 him WHEN you apparently don't believe he's scum, given that you keep associating me to your next scumread like

Elbirn

or

Sky

themselves.

It feels like you're genuinely trying to generate a narrative where I'm scum SOLELY based off of

Elbirn

or

Sky's

flip, DESPITE their alignment, YET you don't push me with a vote because of this.

It feels like you're either:

1)

Bussing a buddy for YOUR credibility.

2)

Trying to chain a lynch YOU don't actually believe is scum.

3)

You are incredibly off with your assessments and your read progression reflects that.

Anyway - it’s a bit of a tricky spot, I think I’ve said before in games I get that feeling in poker where you just call the bet to see what the other dude is holding - so basically feels like a info lynch with a decent chance of hitting scum, failing it hitting scum, I’d guess you look pretty bad for driving it so maybe TW can shoot you in the night which is kinda a worthy trade

Are we reading the same game?

I've stated EXPLICITLY that I lynch off read as a top priority, I just have more reasons to substance to go off of for an

Elbirn

. Now, that's fucking blown up with the reality of a replacement coming in because I need to evaluate their play individually.

My sort of feeling on day 2 is not a great deal has happened because this wagon nearly clicked so fast, therefore our main events are all the PR reveals and then a little CW on me. I guess that makes Elbirn more likely scum if they don’t want to be on that bus

Also you get more excited about l-1 than me

Yeah, why shouldn't I be active with an L-1 looming? That literally drives the game in a new and different direction and requires decent analysis.

You act like this is so far off from me in

Open 712: Elemental Large

.

You act like this is alignment-specific to me.

Furthermore, you keep providing rationale for

Elbirn

-scum but then it doesn't feel like you agree that he's scum? Otherwise, I don't understand your conclusions right now?

[Taly]

I'm roughly at Elbirn ?= Profii > Xyzzy > HeWho > Sky in that last grouping

Profii again please talk about your progression 1948
your response doesn't address my actual concerns

How do you think there's scum in taly/elbirn and don't feel like straightening it out but just eeeeeeh lets lynch elbirn and if town I guess sus taly
I really want to know how you're comfortable going along with taly as so whilst scumreading him

I mainly think there is scum in Taly or Taly is very wrong somehow, but I think Taly isn't that wrong by accident as he is a good player - he has scum caught more before.

OK, I'm going to dissect how off this statement is.

1)

You're reasoning a scumread on me based off MY ACCURACY in a game. Remember how I hardpushed and lynched town a few times in

Open 712: Elemental Large

when NOBODY else was providing a greater, justifiable case?

TheGoldenParadox

,

Kopherald

, and

havingfitz

were casualties because I borderline-tunneled them, whether I was on their EoD-lynch or not.

I MIGHT make good reads as Town -

((like, even though I caught Jay, texcat, and YOU as scum in that game, Profii))

- but I'm not EXEMPT from being wrong. That's another reason why I wasn't wanting an

Elbirn

when more people weren't speaking in the thread.

Your reasoning off this point here alone, doesn't incriminate me.

2)

You assume I'm likely wrong here, but you had rationale for

Elbirn

-scum AND L-1'd him? What the hell? If you think

Elbirn

is town, why don't you actually tell me how you came to that conclusion INDEPENDENT of my ENTIRE case to him, which I thought you said was valid and

"fits"[/b]?

Am I reading the same game,

profii

?

3)

And if you think I'm scum

OR

I'm wrong, then aren't you implying an

Elbirn-Taly

scumduo then? You're not explicitly stating whether my interaction with

Elbirn

is TvS, but if you think he's town and I'M scum

OR

just wrong - but you ARE scumreading me... like wtf?

I'm genuinely confused by your reads here.

I think Talys slot was scummed up by dave and I think Taly is driving an Elbirn mislynch and whilst he has presented a coherent case on Elbirn, my concern is as part of that case he said Sky/Elbirn could be scum, but hey lets go with Elbirn and I'm not really super clear on what made Elbirn > Sky. Then when I ask on a scale of 1-10 Taly doesn't say oh yeah Elbirn is scum - I think Taly is posturing on an inevitable Sky Scum flip by picking on Elbirn's flubber vote and lack of good play on day 1 (sorry elbirn )

Ugh... So a LARGE part of your scumread on me is based off

Dave

? How come you never pushed this D1?

I've made it CLEAR that I wanted an

Elbirn

lynch because I felt he was MORE likely scum based off independent play, and that I would be OK with voting

Sky

.

And that I'd honestly be OK if I had a double-vote and threw rope at both of them and just because I'm feeling STRONG on a lynch being scum doesn't mean I'm not WILLING to hear other people's thoughts before EoD.. Your entire assessment on my actual reads and push here isn't true,.

Not doing this is partially why and how town lost, partially by my hand, in

Open 712: Elemental Large

, I hardpush but then I sometimes don't even try to entertain a town possibility and it bites me in the ass.

If I were scum, I doubt I'd even remotely defend my scumbuddies right now, OR place them as a strong scumread.

I reckon {Sky Taly} scum and elbirn town

seeing as my vote is on elbirn and MoI has voted Sky, seems a sensible time to see if we can get that wagon going

VOTE: Sky

Oh goodie... You hopped on a wagon, you didn't look at ANYONE else's vote for being on it, you look into mine, and you find rationale for ME being scum, alongside my other scumread, WHILE you townread the person I pushed, and YOU hopped on the wagon of.

would still prefer taly but meh - the other weird thing is people are now thinking I am scum linked to elbirn - I voted and people retreated, sure I could be bussing as the wagon nearly gets over the line, but then, why not just hammer if me and Elbirn are scum mates? That link doesn't make sense, people should say either I am scum OR elbirn is scum OR Taly is scum, it doesn't make sense that there is 2 scum in the pool of players here. However, the Sky link does make sense to Taly as he postured that read along with Elbirns I think.

The reasons for you being scum with

Elbirn

is because you gave reasons to scumread and want his lynch but then you 180 on that as if to play devil's advocate without actually evaluating the entire wagon on

Elbirn

.

Your defense of him makes in a S-S interaction, and the whole basis of your townread on him is MY case on him, when NOBODY else interacted with that case.

I'm sort of glad I am a CW to elbirn as it takes some heat off what I really think is a town slot, if it had gone through, then I think it proved my point on Taly which is sort of a means to an end in catching scum-taly.

So this entire time you thought Elbirn was town, and you used your push on him to try and catch me as scum when you had almost no pretense to think I'm scum?

I think I get scum read for playing the probabilities like this and people start saying my play isn't "optimal" in a buzz wordy way, but I have my methods and they work for me so I'll be sound when Taly flips scum

I'm going to feel really vindicated when I flip town this game, whether it's by a lynch, NK, or endgame, holy shit.

[Taly]

Ugh... I'm going to ISO duo

Sky-Profii

tonight or definitely tomorrow... fuck, I wasn't jumping on the

profii

bandwagon because I know you have dig into

profii

more to see his motives, but wow.

I can't conceive some of his posting to be town, and that kind of affects my strongly-set reads.

[Taly]

By all means

profii

, if I'm wrong about anything in the above posts, then ignore all of that and

spell out your read progression to me

[Taly]

Oof... I need help by someone I townread who's playing reasonable right now...

[Taly]

oh btw this game has given me another chance to use this image I made a long time ago

If this is all you have to say, I may have to reevaluate my townread on you.

[Inferno390]

Okay
So I’m working on my Andy/MoI summary right now, but I’m at work and it’s all on mobile and I don’t know when I’ll be at a computer next. So bear with.
However:
I read through your stuff on Profii and I have to admit that your case is very strong. I will sheep you on that.

[Pine]

==> Vote Count 2.3 <==

With 15 votes in play, it's 8 to lynch!

Flavor incoming...

[L-4]

((Elbirn)) - Taly, xyzzy, brassherald, Ausuka

[L-8]

MagnaofIllusion -

[L-8]

Ausuka -

[L-8]

brassherald -

[L-6]

the worst - Chickadee, HitAlt

[L-8]

HitAlt -

[L-6]

Skygazer - MagnaofIllusion, profii

[L-8]

Inferno390 -

[L-8]

Chickadee -

[L-8]

xyzzy -

[L-8]

HeWhoSwims -

[L-8]

Raskolnikov -

[L-8]

Taly -

[L-8]

Andrius -

[L-4]

Profii - Raskolnikov, the worst, Inferno390, Skygazer

Nursing their beer (Not voting)

- Andrius, ((Elbirn)), HeWhoSwims

brassherald is on V/LA of indeterminate length
Elbirn is being replaced.

Deadline in (expired on 2018-07-26 15:00:00)

[Chickadee]

Profii you can stop scum claiming. We caught you. Why on earth advocate for a TW lynch? It doesn’t make any sense. Even if TW is a serial killer, group scum dies first. I think you know a lynch on him isn’t going through so you’re trying to look town by pointing fingers at potential scum. And that point is backed up by your immediate vote on sky, right after advocating killing TW.


VOTE: profii

[profii]

I'll read talys wall later - I never know what he wants when he says state your read progression - I either don't know what that means or I play the game differently because I've said what I want to say already.

but Chickadee - why do you want 2x night kills in the game? How can you trust TW to be leashed? it's not like we can say 'we want you to kill x' as we don't know what PR interference there will be.

[profii]

I've flicked through that wall, Taly you are like the anti-chill

i'll answer later though.

[profii]

Profii you can stop scum claiming. We caught you. Why on earth advocate for a TW lynch? It doesn’t make any sense. Even if TW is a serial killer, group scum dies first. I think you know a lynch on him isn’t going through so you’re trying to look town by pointing fingers at potential scum. And that point is backed up by your immediate vote on sky, right after advocating killing TW.


VOTE: profii

actually I was pondering this and I've had to come back as this suuuuuper bugs me.

the whole game you've been relatively quiet, even saying yourself your reads are weak and so on.
then you say "whoever says lynching a SK is scum"
which I did notice before advocating* for the SK lynch but I don't really care if people scum read me for it so I just carried on.
so then you are now obviously scum reading me

you've gone from having no direction to essentially manufacturing a reason to vote me. bizarre.

*advocating - I refute that - I stated there is a logic to lessening the blow of double night kills. If people aren't on board with that, I said I _wont_ push a TW lynch, but I believe it is logical pro town thing to do.

[HeWhoSwims]

Aw brass my man. I'm so so so sorry

The thing is I really want tw to claim modifier or not as it may help me in solving stuff.

I did claim my modifier

I really doubt you were serious there

Carpet bombing's always fun.
If you think TW is probably SK do you think the odds of one of brass or hit being scum BP or scum detective are possibly worth consideration?

Good catch. Didn't see that. Would scum call this out? Since hit has been scumread especially.

Profii you can stop scum claiming. We caught you. Why on earth advocate for a TW lynch? It doesn’t make any sense. Even if TW is a serial killer, group scum dies first. I think you know a lynch on him isn’t going through so you’re trying to look town by pointing fingers at potential scum. And that point is backed up by your immediate vote on sky, right after advocating killing TW.


VOTE: profii

Yeah this feels like it's simply summarizing stuff and not adding stuff to the game... Stuff like this is part of my scumread here.

[Chickadee]

Profii you can stop scum claiming. We caught you. Why on earth advocate for a TW lynch? It doesn’t make any sense. Even if TW is a serial killer, group scum dies first. I think you know a lynch on him isn’t going through so you’re trying to look town by pointing fingers at potential scum. And that point is backed up by your immediate vote on sky, right after advocating killing TW.


VOTE: profii

actually I was pondering this and I've had to come back as this suuuuuper bugs me.

the whole game you've been relatively quiet, even saying yourself your reads are weak and so on.
then you say "whoever says lynching a SK is scum"
which I did notice before advocating* for the SK lynch but I don't really care if people scum read me for it so I just carried on.
so then you are now obviously scum reading me

you've gone from having no direction to essentially manufacturing a reason to vote me. bizarre.

*advocating - I refute that - I stated there is a logic to lessening the blow of double night kills. If people aren't on board with that, I said I _wont_ push a TW lynch, but I believe it is logical pro town thing to do.

Third party hunting over group scum hunting is not the logical pro town thing to do.

And so what if I’m jumping in with a scum read on you. Yes I’ve been largely absent. But now that I’m getting active with something, you’re going to complain? And you’re going to sit there and talk about logical protown moves?

[HeWhoSwims]

Chick anti town is anti town tho... Although I wouldn't be able to give the kill motivation of a caught SK.

I don't see too much that profii did wrong honestly. Seems like an easy cw.

Also, claims, do I miss anything?
Chick - vengeful
Moi - odd night loyal FV
Ausuka - Loyal FV
Inferno - visitor?
Dram - prime night JK
Hit - Detective I think?
Brass - 1 shit BP
Duck - vig

Finally I'm on holiday so I'll check in but ya know... I might not always respond fast.

[Taly]

I've flicked through that wall, Taly you are like the anti-chill

i'll answer later though.

I mean, we both know I can't be chill long-term if I tried.

But seriously, I'm having a lot of difficulty understanding your read on

Elbirn

, me, and

Sky

.

In MY perspective, you went from:

"Let's L-1

Elbirn

and lynch him because he's scum"

to

"he MUST be town because of the wagon on him"

or at least I think????

Because you've put up your own reasons to think

Elbirn

was scum earlier?

With

Sky

, it looks like you went from:

"

Sky's

not the lynch"

to

"I'm going to vote this because it's an associative to my stronger scumread"

And with me, you are like:

"

Taly's

slot is scummed up by

Dave

"
"

Taly's

wrong or scum"
"

Taly's

my main scumread because I associate him with the people HE cased against, and they're people I scumread as well"

Like, there's more reasoning for your scumread on me I'm guessing, but a lot of the reasons you listed are either NAI, or could've EASILY been dispelled if you actually put up a case on why

Elbirn

was town in the first place, or even ENGAGED with my case at all.

It just feels like whenever I respond to you, you focus in on anything that could reinforce your scumread without reading into what I'm talking to you about.

But I'm already a bit drained from this back and forth... I don't understand your reads, and I'm still gauging on whether that's AI for you.

[Taly]

I don't see too much that profii did wrong honestly. Seems like an easy cw.

That's what I originally thought to, and am trying to decide on fully.

How about you talk about the

Elbirn, Sky, and profii

wagon and the votes on them?

[Taly]

I'm trying to see if the potential groupscum on the

Elbirn

wagon that transitioned to the

profii

wagon did it out of bussing or survival.

[Taly]

Or out of genuine scumhunting and gamesolving

[HeWhoSwims]

I fully agree though that people shouldn't be reading you only by Dave.

I'll read the case on Elbirn again

Sky wagon is good wagon... Sorry gal but I just really scumread you here. But did she really have a wagon?

[HeWhoSwims]

Taly... Part of your reasoning for Elbscum is not following up on suspicions and not voting there. Tbh that's my play style... Though I always get shit for it so idk if I can blame the people on the wagon.

[profii]

Profii you can stop scum claiming. We caught you. Why on earth advocate for a TW lynch? It doesn’t make any sense. Even if TW is a serial killer, group scum dies first. I think you know a lynch on him isn’t going through so you’re trying to look town by pointing fingers at potential scum. And that point is backed up by your immediate vote on sky, right after advocating killing TW.


VOTE: profii

actually I was pondering this and I've had to come back as this suuuuuper bugs me.

the whole game you've been relatively quiet, even saying yourself your reads are weak and so on.
then you say "whoever says lynching a SK is scum"
which I did notice before advocating* for the SK lynch but I don't really care if people scum read me for it so I just carried on.
so then you are now obviously scum reading me

you've gone from having no direction to essentially manufacturing a reason to vote me. bizarre.

*advocating - I refute that - I stated there is a logic to lessening the blow of double night kills. If people aren't on board with that, I said I _wont_ push a TW lynch, but I believe it is logical pro town thing to do.

Third party hunting over group scum hunting is not the logical pro town thing to do.

And so what if I’m jumping in with a scum read on you. Yes I’ve been largely absent. But now that I’m getting active with something, you’re going to complain? And you’re going to sit there and talk about logical protown moves?

I’m observing the following

“I’m not really in this game my reads are weak”
“Still have no reads but anyone who says lynch SK is scum”

*profii: TW is SK, it’s worth lynching*

“I’ve magically found scum guys”


That is _totally_ manufactured

Also if I was really scum, why would I say that knowing you would start pushing for me in the middle of my biggest scrutiny period thus far


I’m not complaining - I just find that a really really weak way to get on my wagon

[HeWhoSwims]

Guys, comments on the claims? I'd like to have that list fixed and kept

[Pine]

Chick anti town is anti town tho... Although I wouldn't be able to give the kill motivation of a caught SK.

I don't see too much that profii did wrong honestly. Seems like an easy cw.

Also, claims, do I miss anything?
Chick - vengeful
Moi - odd night loyal FV
Ausuka - Loyal FV
Inferno - visitor?
Dram - prime night JK
Hit - Detective I think?
Brass - 1

shit

BP
Duck - vig

Finally I'm on holiday so I'll check in but ya know... I might not always respond fast.

Rude.

[Inferno390]

Lmao