Large Normal 216 - Endgame

[Shattiel]

VOTE: ofhrz

also if you're town
Vote one of xx/Max tomorrow thats where scum is located according to my scum radar

[RCEnigma]

Three JOATS in one game?

Two had the exact same role. Evaluate a world where all claim roles are town:

AP
Myself
Gamma
Performer

Add flipped roles in:

CT
FL
Dva

We started with what 19 players?
7 prs 8 or 9 vts and 3 or 4 scum (I think 4 is more likely)

Which seems like a lot but they break down as:

FL - confirmed VT
Dva - chances of impeding a town Pr over a scum Pr are pretty high
CT/Performer/myself - high impact but very limited window of opportunity
Gamma - turned out to be high impact even with the claim
AP - can't really confirm his role works aside from preventing a nightkill which the chances get better the longer the game goes however starts night 1 with a 1 in 17 chances of choosing the correct target. Even now his odds are low.

We also don't know the abilities of the remaining scum.

Unfortunately one of my checks was modkilled but I'm willing to give up my life to keep a confirmed town alive and actually get some use out of my role.

So I'm willing to be today's Lynch, that will confirm Maxous as town and then scum have to choose between leaving Maxous or FL alive (they will leave FL alive for the saudade factor).

[Saudade]

VOTE: ofhrz

also if you're town
Vote one of xx/Max tomorrow thats where scum is located according to my scum radar

I dont listen to you

[Saudade]

Only FL is my shepherd

[Shattiel]

Don't worry fam I'm planning to kill FL tonight since he's unto me now

[Shattiel]

xx got that newbie feels which makes me townread but I'm not really sure how well he could fake it.

Prob should just lynch in Max/Saudade next

[Shattiel]

Oh wait Max got targeted by RC so scratch that should keep him til RC flips at least

So Saudade it is

[Shattiel]

Three JOATS in one game?

Two had the exact same role. Evaluate a world where all claim roles are town:

AP
Myself
Gamma
Performer

Add flipped roles in:

CT
FL
Dva

We started with what 19 players?
7 prs 8 or 9 vts and 3 or 4 scum (I think 4 is more likely)

Which seems like a lot but they break down as:

FL - confirmed VT
Dva - chances of impeding a town Pr over a scum Pr are pretty high
CT/Performer/myself - high impact but very limited window of opportunity
Gamma - turned out to be high impact even with the claim
AP - can't really confirm his role works aside from preventing a nightkill which the chances get better the longer the game goes however starts night 1 with a 1 in 17 chances of choosing the correct target. Even now his odds are low.

We also don't know the abilities of the remaining scum.

Unfortunately one of my checks was modkilled but I'm willing to give up my life to keep a confirmed town alive and actually get some use out of my role.

So I'm willing to be today's Lynch, that will confirm Maxous as town and then scum have to choose between leaving Maxous or FL alive (they will leave FL alive for the saudade factor).

should confirm more people before talking about eating the kill

[Saudade]

Oh wait Max got targeted by RC so scratch that should keep him til RC flips at least

So Saudade it is

Saudade it is what?
confirmed town?

[Saudade]

thanks buddy but its plain to see anyway

[RCEnigma]

I don't have the ability to confirm anyone else. That's why CT's modkill is so unfortunate.

[RCEnigma]

FL you have to understand even if Saudade is town we lose because he will be in lylo and he 100% should be the Lynch regardless of alignment.

[ofrhz]

I’m town

[Flavor Leaf]

FL you have to understand even if Saudade is town we lose because he will be in lylo and he 100% should be the Lynch regardless of alignment.

Nah, you just discern his alignment like anything else.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Shattiel

I believe Jason.

[Shattiel]

I’m town

[Shattiel]

@ofrhz lead a wagon

[RCEnigma]

Flavor Leaf are you sure sephi is scum

Based on this?

Kill me first then, I'm voting saudade regardless so.

[Saudade]

VOTE: Shattiel

[Saudade]

I've had a great town game, you're just bad RCE

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m playing with wagonomics.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor Leaf are you sure sephi is scum

Based on this?

Kill me first then, I'm voting saudade regardless so.

Why do I have to kill either of you.

Imma take a hard pass on that.

[Flavor Leaf]

Xx - idk if Nero buses this hard, and I standby what I was saying with thinking Xx is town. I’m not entirely positive of this, but enough where I do not want to head there today.

Maxous - probably town based on RCE. Idk if that correlates to a SvS, plus there’s reasons he’s likely town based on play.

AP - hmm...probably town based on claim and general targets. Could be pulling the wool, but this is probably town.

FL - probably scum.

Saudade - this is dumb as scum, decent hiding spot, sure, but it’s pretty ride or die. He also gave paranoia on Sephiroth wagon, and then Seph targeted me with his shot confirming himself as town to me, so I’m town reading here.

RCE - I guess this could be scum fakeclaiming, but no point in dealing with that right now. If this is scum, Maxous is still likely town.

Jason - possible scum. Could just be lost town.

Garmr - possible scum, could just be projecting town, but gut says town.

Shatt - scum who’s been coasting.


We have like 2 or 3 scum left, probably 2, I’m leaning Shatt and one of my town reads probably

[AP]

Frankly, I'm just tired of this Saudade gimmick.

VOTE: Saudade

If this flips red I'm town confirming both ofrhz and Shattiel.

@FL: Come on, man. The last time we played together we lynched SCUM on D1 because we worked together. I mean, we did F up (you with that fake Mason claim with Scum and I for asserting N_M's confirmed role = confirmed alignment), but still.. we work together fine when it's down to MECHANICAL analysis. I would accept gut reads on D1, or even D2 with 1-2 flips, but we've had enough flips and confirmed roles and we have the VCA, ISOs of the flipped and SETUP SPEC for balance, so we need to work on those.

Unfortunately I cannot do it all by myself because I'm neither a member of the Normal Games review panel nor do I even care to use "all Normal" roles in my designed games. I'm not 100% sure what IS Normal anymore, so I need your perspective here.

So, we had 2 identical Town JOATs with 6 1-shot actions each. We also had a Rolestopper and a 2-shot Loyal FV, and we had a Disloyal Babysitter. (that's the mod confirmed roles via flips)

Gamma's role = nerfed Vig (not sure if "nerfed" is the correct term to use, since he could not have killed Town, but he also could not kill scum unless they shot him and he was on them). He is mainly a Doctor with a conditional kill on Scum.

Seph was a nerfed invetigative (Nerfed in 2 ways: 2 shots and could have been JK'd/RB'd by either of the JOATs).

The 2 JOATs had nerfed investigative abilities (none gives a hard guilty unless the target is caught outright lying or they Tracked the specific scumster doing the kill), and nerfed protection (RB had to target the killer to stop the kill and BG meant they die instead of their target) + JK (RB+Doc, which is probably the strongest ability they had, but it was 1 shot each).

Rolestopper never got to use their ability, and I guess the designers did foresee one or 2 PRs could have been NK'd (or even lynched) early.

Now, toss in my role: Disloyal RB, and I'd say that's a better version that the RB shots the JOATs had, because mine cannot stop a TPR from doing their job, but I'd need to actually stop a kill from the source to guilty anyone (which would have potentially resulted in 1 soft guilty + up to 4 fake guilties on -say- N1 if both JOATs decided to use BOTH the JK & RB abilities each and I acted and there was no NK)

It's mind boggling a;ready, but we also need to factor in RCE's role which is a JOAT with different abilities that the flipped two.

Now Scum: One informed Goon, and my biggest problems are we don't know what he was informed of AND we don't know if he gave that info to his buddies. I'll work under the assumption he did because it's safer that way, but we still dunno what the info he jad was to begin with.

Then we have a 1-shot Motion Detected (N1 in specific) which tells me the Town does have a load of TPRs (why 1 shot? And why N1?? Because if they acted randomly they'd have a higher chance of detection motion on someone or another, and since they know who, their own team targets they can deduce this person is either a PR or has been visited by one)

I'd expect Scum to have some sort of a Voyeur then (Not sure if it's limited or full), or have a limited shots Role Cop, Or someone with 1 or 2-shot Ninja to counter all this motion detecting/Tracking/Voyeuring the Town has.

We have yet another problem in that the NKs were all made on claimed roles (except the N1 kill, which I take to be a random lucky hit, maybe?) This probably means RC might have a higher probability, as Scum would verify a role before they kill it?? Or do you think they take their words and just shoot??

And if they don't have a RC, what sort of PRs do we expect them to have to counter this high numbers of TPRs, yet most are too weak to be considered more than "half a PR"?

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t think Saudade is scum.