Mini Normal 2054: Winter's Sacrifice [Game Over]

[Mewtaph]

VC 1.03

votes

[3] rosterfoster

:

Sashaddin (22), JunkoChan (24), Flubbernugget (53)

[2] JunkoChan

:

Gamma Emerald (3), Egix96 (41)

[2] Gamma Emerald

:

Persivul (29), Haschel Cedricson (59)

[1] Nikk

:

BuJaber (13)

[1] Egix96

:

Dannflor (56)

[1] Dannflor

:

rosterfoster (57)

[3] Not Voting

:

Tchill13, xwing, Nikk

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

The Day 1 deadline is in

: (expired on 2019-01-30 01:15:00)

Mod Notes

:

xwing is V/LA on weekends.
Unofficially prodding Nikk. If Nikk doesn't pick up his role PM within (expired on 2019-01-21 01:15:00), I will begin searching for a replacement.

[BuJaber]

I don't like that she seems to feel the need to FoS someone for not giving a reason for their vote, at a stage of the game where virtually all reasons for votes are just made up (or at least not pertinent to the game) anyway.

Well let's be honest there's a difference between weak reasoning (because of minimal information), and made up reasoning.

I'd rather have someone read too much into things and receive additional explanations than dismiss things as NAI by default. Excluding things like trying to analyze the mod or replacements or real life events etc.

[Flubbernugget]

What about the rest of their play?

I mean there isn’t any? This naked vote thing kind of took over the game.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at. It felt less contrived than the town read on you

[Flubbernugget]

Junko is probably town too but I still want to hear why she thinks naked voting is scummy.

Why? You have too many townreads so soon into the game.

So do I. Sometimes that's how the game pans out. Especially early game.

[Flubbernugget]

Alright, I'll bite.

Let's hear your read on Gamma.

What exactly are you scim reading gamma for?

[Dannflor]

Why? You have too many townreads so soon into the game.

I'll explain later in this post but why is two townreads (the only ones I've mentioned, I believe) "too many?" Reads can change. Also, getting strong townreads early is one of the best ways to pin down mafia by process of elimination. This is a weak thing to criticize me for. You should criticize me for the actual reasoning behind my reads, like flubbernugget did, as that gets discussion going, not "having reads." Do townreads make you nervous?

Gamma is null at best and slightly scummy for not following the game closely enough.
It's not the subject of the vote that I take issue with. It's that it's naked after Dann said he thinks scum are more inclined to post reasons with their votes than not.

Do you have any other reads, BuJaber? Why is Gamma null-scum for not following the game closely? Does town always follow the game 100%?

Also, I'm not about to townread everyone who naked votes. Naked voting is NAI more often than not and not the reason I townread rosterfoster in the first place.

You popped in just to say that, after I had already questioned it and been answered? Why?

This is a rather empty question, which represents my main issue with this slot in general. Lots of questions that don't really do anything but try and look productive. People have already commented on this, Gamma is bound to realize and respond. What answer are you searching for other than "Oops I didn't read carefully?" There's also been more interesting things happening in this game than Gamma missing posts, why not comment on that or people's reads?

I don't like that she seems to feel the need to FoS someone for not giving a reason for their vote, at a stage of the game where virtually all reasons for votes are just made up (or at least not pertinent to the game) anyway.

She didn't FoS him, she voted him. If she thinks that's a noob scum tell, why wouldn't she vote him at that stage of the game? Also, note that she tried (and succeeded as far as I can tell) to break the game out of RVS, and was the very first one to do this not a page in. Does scum do that? I don't think so, particularly when she had the opportunity to continue with her roleplaying fluff with Gamma.

I'd rather have someone read too much into things and receive additional explanations than dismiss things as NAI by default. Excluding things like trying to analyze the mod or replacements or real life events etc.

Which is it? You say I have too many townreads too early on and then you say you'd rather someone read too much into things than dismiss things as NAI.

UNVOTE: Egix
VOTE: BuJaber

[rosterfoster]

Yeah, that's what I was getting at. It felt less contrived than the town read on you

I’m sure I’m just having a brain malfunction, but what felt less contrived?

I think Bujaber is town.

I do find it very funny how much you’re all reading into this naked vote thing. Like if I had time I would’ve said something when voting. (directed at that post by Bujaber which I mentioned earlier).

[Haschel Cedricson]

Alright, I'll bite.

Let's hear your read on Gamma.

What exactly are you scim reading gamma for?

Not ignoring this but I'm holding off on answering until Gamma comes back.

[Egix96]

Why? You have too many townreads so soon into the game.

I'll explain later in this post but why is two townreads (the only ones I've mentioned, I believe) "too many?" Reads can change. Also, getting strong townreads early is one of the best ways to pin down mafia by process of elimination. This is a weak thing to criticize me for. You should criticize me for the actual reasoning behind my reads, like flubbernugget did, as that gets discussion going, not "having reads." Do townreads make you nervous?

Gamma is null at best and slightly scummy for not following the game closely enough.
It's not the subject of the vote that I take issue with. It's that it's naked after Dann said he thinks scum are more inclined to post reasons with their votes than not.

Do you have any other reads, BuJaber? Why is Gamma null-scum for not following the game closely? Does town always follow the game 100%?

Also, I'm not about to townread everyone who naked votes. Naked voting is NAI more often than not and not the reason I townread rosterfoster in the first place.

You popped in just to say that, after I had already questioned it and been answered? Why?

This is a rather empty question, which represents my main issue with this slot in general. Lots of questions that don't really do anything but try and look productive. People have already commented on this, Gamma is bound to realize and respond. What answer are you searching for other than "Oops I didn't read carefully?" There's also been more interesting things happening in this game than Gamma missing posts, why not comment on that or people's reads?

I don't like that she seems to feel the need to FoS someone for not giving a reason for their vote, at a stage of the game where virtually all reasons for votes are just made up (or at least not pertinent to the game) anyway.

She didn't FoS him, she voted him. If she thinks that's a noob scum tell, why wouldn't she vote him at that stage of the game? Also, note that she tried (and succeeded as far as I can tell) to break the game out of RVS, and was the very first one to do this not a page in. Does scum do that? I don't think so, particularly when she had the opportunity to continue with her roleplaying fluff with Gamma.

I'd rather have someone read too much into things and receive additional explanations than dismiss things as NAI by default. Excluding things like trying to analyze the mod or replacements or real life events etc.

Which is it? You say I have too many townreads too early on and then you say you'd rather someone read too much into things than dismiss things as NAI.

UNVOTE: Egix
VOTE: BuJaber

- Thanks, now you've made it trivial for Gamma to answer that question. There's no point in me saying what sort of answer I'm looking for before Gamma has had a chance to answer.
- Because there was nothing else that I felt was worth commenting on? Not sure how else to answer that really.

I'm gonna have to take a quick look back to see if what you're saying about Junko is correct.

[Egix96]

The game looks too cute, so the messed up things must be like REALLY messed up, I'll give it a try.

talking about seeing some shit, 19 is a really shitty vote even for rvs

VOTE: roosterfroster

Yep, seems like that's what she did.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Gamma

[JunkoChan]

I don't like that she seems to feel the need to FoS someone for not giving a reason for their vote, at a stage of the game where virtually all reasons for votes are just made up (or at least not pertinent to the game) anyway.

Well let's be honest there's a difference between weak reasoning (because of minimal information), and made up reasoning.

I'd rather have someone read too much into things and receive additional explanations than dismiss things as NAI by default. Excluding things like trying to analyze the mod or replacements or real life events etc.

Exactly, sometimes the smallest details can become the strongest reads in the long run, I think it's better to demand for answers than be like "oh ya it's probably that" and move on

UNVOTE: frostedchiken

Let's go back to the Silent Queen, I want to read her answer VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[BuJaber]

@Dann - Well if you count naked voters like I did then that's at least three townreads with Haschel. It's good that you aren't actually townreading those.

Also towmreading so soon is a problem. There's little content to go on, leading to weak townreads. It shows that you're easily fooled/too gullibe if town, or if scum: trying to pocket / appear perceptive with an early read you know is right / townreading your partner. Weak townreads can lead to town removing people from the scum pool prematurely. They are dangerous to town if wrong. It is better to be skeptical and cautious and constantly reevaluate. As opposed to weak scumreads which usually attract more criticism so they are inherently more dangerous to scum.

Whether or not someone is TRing or SRing someone, reading too much into things generally leads to oversharing which opens up discussion and makes it easier for everyone else to sort both players. You did this with rooster but not with junko hence why I asked.

Wrt gamma I'm not saying townies always read things closely but not following along very well is in itself anti-town because you miss things or waste time rehashing things already settled. Scum can skim things and usually be fine. Town skimming things is a self-imposed handicap.

[Dannflor]

I don't think pointing certain things out as town early on is necessarily bad. I'd argue D1 is (even early) one of the best times to get clear reads. I agree conf biasing is a danger and not good for town, but I consider that a separate issue.

Scum can skim things and usually be fine

As Flubbernugget has already noted, scum has a harder time keeping their story straight. The whole SHROOP theory is built around this concept that scum are more likely to be careful with their posting and revise things. So I don't agree that scum can skim things and usually be fine, that's a sign of really bad scum.

Why is your vote still on Nikk, a player who has not yet picked up his role PM vs. Gamma, a player you yourself said is anti-town at best and at worst scummy?

What is your opinion on Egix not reading closely enough to see that Junko voted rosterfoster instead of FoSing him? Do you also think that's scummy?

I don't like that she seems to feel the need to FoS someone for not giving a reason for their vote, at a stage of the game where virtually all reasons for votes are just made up (or at least not pertinent to the game) anyway.

The game looks too cute, so the messed up things must be like REALLY messed up, I'll give it a try.

talking about seeing some shit, 19 is a really shitty vote even for rvs

VOTE: roosterfroster

Yep, seems like that's what she did.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Gamma

[Gamma Emerald]

The game looks too cute, so the messed up things must be like REALLY messed up, I'll give it a try.

talking about seeing some shit, 19 is a really shitty vote even for rvs

VOTE: roosterfroster

Yep, seems like that's what she did.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Gamma

Seems like what is what who did?

[Gamma Emerald]

Also can everyone say why they’re voting me again? Because all I really am able to see is either inactivity, which is kinda fair, or the roleplay, in which case okay, should I not play mafia to have fun?

[Dannflor]

The game looks too cute, so the messed up things must be like REALLY messed up, I'll give it a try.

talking about seeing some shit, 19 is a really shitty vote even for rvs

VOTE: roosterfroster

Explain.

Sure, vote with no context on someone who hasn't even posted yet are always ringing bells for me, call it a hunch or actual meta gaming, either way I don't like it

But Jaber had made two posts prior to that vote? Or am I misunderstanding?

my bad, I think I skipped those, still don't like votes without a reason, even minimal

The game looks too cute, so the messed up things must be like REALLY messed up, I'll give it a try.

talking about seeing some shit, 19 is a really shitty vote even for rvs

VOTE: roosterfroster

Explain.

Sure, vote with no context on someone who hasn't even posted yet are always ringing bells for me, call it a hunch or actual meta gaming, either way I don't like it

But BuJaber has posted...

People aren't voting you for inactivity when there are three players who haven't even posted yet.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Also can everyone say why they’re voting me again? Because all I really am able to see is either inactivity, which is kinda fair, or the roleplay, in which case okay, should I not play mafia to have fun?

Fun fact, it's neither of those things.

Give me a read on somebody other than Junko.

[Egix96]

The game looks too cute, so the messed up things must be like REALLY messed up, I'll give it a try.

talking about seeing some shit, 19 is a really shitty vote even for rvs

VOTE: roosterfroster

Yep, seems like that's what she did.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Gamma

Seems like what is what who did?

a) JC didn't just suspect RF, she voted him (lolme)
b) She got the game out of RVS

[xwing]

im here..not finding much to comment on atm..

Haschels tryharding reads town

i will agree for now..

It's too elaborate to fake

I mean it's not that hard. I have only played one game.

I'm not liking this hardcore defence of me. Feels a bit like trying way too hard to find townieness from what I said. As if he

knows

I'm town.

VOTE: Dannflor

i agree it seems like dann is *trying* to pocket, but his later posts seems fine..

I always believed that naked votes during RVS are Status quo for noob mafia

I naked vote in RVS frequently as either alignment. It's no big deal.

for me, naked votes are NAI this early too..

Gamma is null at best and slightly scummy for not following the game closely enough.
It's not the subject of the vote that I take issue with. It's that it's naked after Dann said he thinks scum are more inclined to post reasons with their votes than not.

@gamma ^
what do you think?

[Sashaddin]

I can see Egix and Junko as town. Dann is giving me both feelings at once. As for the Gamma thing, I don't think I understand what's going on.

[xwing]

@sasha - strongly agree on dann read

[Dannflor]

I think Bujaber is town.

Why?

[Persivul]

When did it become in fashion to toss around town reads with less than a hundred posts?

Are you guys such bad scum that you can't fake it for that long?

[Dannflor]

??? just how many scum do you think there are

[Tchill13]

VOTE: sashaddin

Hello. I haven't played with much of yall before, been a bit busy but will post later tonight.