Mini Normal 2054: Winter's Sacrifice [Game Over]

[Persivul]

??? just how many scum do you think there are

No, point is if you town read someone in less than a hundred posts, you must be such bad scum yourself that you give yourself away that quickly when you are scum. Not that they're all scum in this particular game. It's ridiculous. People probably think they're good at it because you'll be right ~75% of the time just by chance.

[Dannflor]

I can see what you're saying, but I think it's less about scum "giving themselves away" and more about town tells being more indicative than scum tells. After how many posts do you think it is appropriate to start gathering reads on people?

[JunkoChan]

??? just how many scum do you think there are

No, point is if you town read someone in less than a hundred posts, you must be such bad scum yourself that you give yourself away that quickly when you are scum. Not that they're all scum in this particular game. It's ridiculous. People probably think they're good at it because you'll be right ~75% of the time just by chance.

so exactly after 100 posts it's okay? this is so arbitrary, sometimes Ihave gotten the feeling of someone being scum right after their first post, I'm not a god or anything but it happens

[BuJaber]

As Flubbernugget has already noted, scum has a harder time keeping their story straight. The whole SHROOP theory is built around this concept that scum are more likely to be careful with their posting and revise things. So I don't agree that scum can skim things and usually be fine, that's a sign of really bad scum.

Why is your vote still on Nikk, a player who has not yet picked up his role PM vs. Gamma, a player you yourself said is anti-town at best and at worst scummy?

What is your opinion on Egix not reading closely enough to see that Junko voted rosterfoster instead of FoSing him? Do you also think that's scummy?

Perhaps. Guess it depends on how someone plays scum. But they don't need to read as much as town because their reads are manufactured. And if they are paying just enough attention they don't have to bring up stuff they aren't paying close attention to. Town missing things is literally trying to sort people with less information than they have available.

I was thinking about switching gamma around the point haschel voted but first I needed to hear his response. Like I don't see how Haschel's play counts as 'tryharding'. You and egix for example are 'tryharding' much more. I don't think it's a good tell. But Haschel isn't even doing anything hard to fake.. just a few questions here and there???
Anyway back to nikk, I figured if I kept my vote on him for a while longer it may prompt him to post sooner, so I'm holding off on voting gamma. How do you know he didn't read his PM?

As someone who is advocating being cautious and seeking explanations on seemingly obvious things I agree it was wrong of me to ignore Egix's FOS. The reason I did at the time was that it felt obvious from the context he meant that voting someone is suspecting them and he misused the term FOS, instead of someone getting it wrong because of lack of reading. I know he's new from the game I modded, it was conceivable he'd mix things up.

[Tchill13]

I mean it's fine to SR someone at any point in the game. Depending on the time you may not be able to justify the reasoning. This is going extremely slow compared to other games I've played. If this keeps up I'm going to advocate for a lurker lynch. Either that or we wait for replacements. I'd rather have a reasonable stance on 80 percent of the slots before a lynch and I've seen nothing of use when it comes to sorting yet.

[BuJaber]

I won't speak for persivul, his point is different if I understood it correctly but to further elaborate my point, I think early scumtells are more reliable than early town tells. Because you're basing things on tone and gut primarily, like on how things sound, if it is coming from someone genuinenly interested in figuring things out or not. So it is easier to catch a 'slip' so to speak than it is to differentiate between an actual townie post and scum pretending to look for clues.

Later in the game it starts to change because there are actual events, posts, reads, and flips to react to.

[Tchill13]

When did it become in fashion to toss around town reads with less than a hundred posts?

Are you guys such bad scum that you can't fake it for that long?

Post number doesn't really matter. Tell me why scum would throw out TR's atm when they don't have to take a stance at all yet.

[Persivul]

I can see what you're saying, but I think it's less about scum "giving themselves away" and more about town tells being more indicative than scum tells. After how many posts do you think it is appropriate to

start gathering

reads on people?

You can "start gathering" reads right away. Proclaiming someone town - that takes more than 4 pages.

[Persivul]

When did it become in fashion to toss around town reads with less than a hundred posts?

Are you guys such bad scum that you can't fake it for that long?

Post number doesn't really matter. Tell me why scum would throw out TR's atm when they don't have to take a stance at all yet.

That's...not...the...point.

[Mewtaph]

VC 1.04

votes

[4] Gamma Emerald

:

Persivul (29), Haschel Cedricson (59), Egix96 (84), JunkoChan (85)

[2] rosterfoster

:

Sashaddin (22), Flubbernugget (53)

[1] JunkoChan

:

Gamma Emerald (3)

[1] Nikk

:

BuJaber (13)

[1] Dannflor

:

rosterfoster (57)

[1] BuJaber

:

Dannflor (80)

[1] Sashaddin

:

Tchill13 (99)

[2] Not Voting

:

xwing, Nikk

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

The Day 1 deadline is in

: (expired on 2019-01-30 01:15:00)

Mod Notes

:

Searching for a replacement for Nikk.

[Persivul]

Haschels tryharding reads town

Scum doesn't go to this much effort to check their reads, nor do they want to.

This is exactly what scum would do

Aren't these two posts completely contradictory?

[Persivul]

The naive side of me wants to agree with this, but there's nothing telling me that someone who joined the site that long ago couldn't do that as scum.

Yep, as flub himself said in 46.

[Persivul]

Yes

Yes they do

Scum has to work harder to keep their story straight

But you read tryharding as town...

[Persivul]

Junko is probably town too

Why?

[Persivul]

I'll explain later in this post but why is two townreads (the only ones I've mentioned, I believe) "too many?" Reads can change. Also, getting strong townreads early is one of the best ways to pin down mafia by process of elimination.

I don't know about BuJaber, but for me, the issue isn't HAVING town reads. The issue is ANNOUNCING them. Town doesn't need to announce their town reads at this point of the game. Scum could do so to appear to be actually analyzing the game, and for buddying.

[Persivul]

Also towmreading so soon is a problem. There's little content to go on, leading to weak townreads. It shows that you're easily fooled/too gullibe if town, or if scum: trying to pocket / appear perceptive with an early read you know is right / townreading your partner. Weak townreads can lead to town removing people from the scum pool prematurely. They are dangerous to town if wrong. It is better to be skeptical and cautious and constantly reevaluate.

Bingo.

[Persivul]

93 Horrible entrance

VOTE: xwing

[BuJaber]

What do you think of sashaddin?

[Persivul]

He has three posts. Too early to say.

[BuJaber]

He has three posts. Too early to say.

Then what was scummy about xwing's post?

[Persivul]

He has three posts. Too early to say.

Then what was scummy about xwing's post?

The two

I agrees

.Looks like scum that doesn't know how to generate content but feels a need to put content up.

[rosterfoster]

Hey Xwing. Good to see you again

Also you're scum.

VOTE: Xwing

[Egix96]

I can see Egix and Junko as town. Dann is giving me both feelings at once. As for the Gamma thing, I don't think I understand what's going on.

Basically we think that Gamma isn't paying enough attention to what's going on in the game, and we think that's scummy.

[Egix96]

im here..not finding much to comment on atm..

Haschels tryharding reads town

i will agree for now..

It's too elaborate to fake

I mean it's not that hard. I have only played one game.

I'm not liking this hardcore defence of me. Feels a bit like trying way too hard to find townieness from what I said. As if he

knows

I'm town.

VOTE: Dannflor

i agree it seems like dann is *trying* to pocket, but his later posts seems fine..

I always believed that naked votes during RVS are Status quo for noob mafia

I naked vote in RVS frequently as either alignment. It's no big deal.

for me, naked votes are NAI this early too..

Gamma is null at best and slightly scummy for not following the game closely enough.
It's not the subject of the vote that I take issue with. It's that it's naked after Dann said he thinks scum are more inclined to post reasons with their votes than not.

@gamma ^
what do you think?

@sasha - strongly agree on dann read

This is disappointing... I know that town!xwing can do better than this.

[Persivul]

i will agree

I take no responsibility...

for now..

And reserve the right to change my mind later if that's convenient.

i agree it seems like dann is *trying* to pocket,

I kinda sorta agree...

but his later posts seems fine..

But no, not really.