Mini 2082: Hall of Mirrors I (Game Over!)

[skitter30]

oh i get where you're coming from now ... but why would scum even be in the mindset where they feel like they need to look for town

[Formerfish]

Im home from my camping trip and my kid is at my ex's. I read through one time already and will comment on things on the next run through, can someone tell me what LHF is?

[skitter30]

low hanging fruit
ie lynchbait

[Formerfish]

low hanging fruit
ie lynchbait

Gotcha, I couldnt for the life of me figure that one out. That stuff will make more sense now on the next run.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Im home from my camping trip and my kid is at my ex's. I read through one time already and will comment on things on the next run through, can someone tell me what LHF is?

Low hanging fruit is just a fancy way to say mislynch bait.

Edit: Ninja’d

[Formerfish]

Venga/Sky

10 Decent rvs vote, wish we could have gotten into some witty banter after I replied.

126 I dont get the reference, are you a vengaboys alt? Serious question. NVM, 128 answered it, I look forward to some witty banter indeed.

129/132/134 Giving townpoints to LUV for being frozen, based off LUV activity in a micro. Is that the only experience you have with scum LUV?

136 Who do you want to interact with? What would you like to talk about?

147 fluff.

Only read given was on LUV and the provenance of that read is suspect. Requires more questioning. Null read atm.

[Formerfish]

Venga/Sky

10 Decent rvs vote, wish we could have gotten into some witty banter after I replied.

126 I dont get the reference, are you a vengaboys alt? Serious question. NVM, 128 answered it, I look forward to some witty banter indeed.

129/132/134 Giving townpoints to LUV for being frozen, based off LUV activity in a micro. Is that the only experience you have with scum LUV?

136 Who do you want to interact with? What would you like to talk about?

147 fluff.

Only read given was on LUV and the provenance of that read is suspect. Requires more questioning. Null read atm.

Forgot to link posts.

[Formerfish]

Maria

30 Did you ever answer why your first post was a single period?

51 You vote skitter here based off the 40% rule, but isn't part of what makes the 40% rule that rule is that it is applied to newbies, in newbie games. This isn't a newbie game and skitter isnt a newbie. I think someone else pointed out that skitter wasnt the only one who tipped that tell in their intro post, did you ever respond to that tid bit?

98 The line about not knowing skitter had a tell is weird when youre the one who kinda brought up the newbie tell, or at least intimated at it and then never disparaged us from assuming thats what you were talking about. You think 1 scum is in Skellen/Rob, possibly 0, but never 2. Then you throw a vote down on Garmr, kinda taking the teeth out of the vote by explaining it, and then allowing him an out for future posting. Do you have experience with Garmr and are looking for particular play from him?

100 In response to what was underwhelming about Garmr. i can see what you are saying about him with the first 5 post thing (ill get to that later) and with the line about comments about myself. That line struck me as off as well (again, more later).

I can see where garmr read is coming from, but I could see a situation where the skellen/rob interaction was theater so I can rule either of them out atm. Null read on Maria

[Formerfish]

5 So is this vote on rob real? I know you mention later on that you liked his answer to your question, but I feel like with how much you are pushing me for a lack of content it feels like it might be a real vote. The fact that you see "No I'm not" as a satisfactory answer 114 to that question seems like an incredibly low bar. Is that a strategy youve used before to some success?

64 Have we played together? You seem to talk about me and my play like you know something about it. Or could it be that you are projecting what you think town should be doing upon me and when you see im doing my own thing over here you attack it for being different? Maybe im attempting to engage someone in particular because I could that they are more chatty as one alignment over the other. What if im looking to draw someone in because they see lhf like you guys talk about and scum loves them some easy pushes. Did you ever follow up with unwnd about why he bolded the part he did?

68 Yes understanding why people say things is important. And honestly I stayed out of it because I understand why unwnd was frustrated by the line of questioning, but I didnt feel like it was my fight to make, and we arent in rome any more so we are all adults that can handle our ouwn shit, maybe I like to throw people into pits and watch the carnage that ensues.

115 You mention you arent good at finding town, does that mean you just look for scum then? I feel like the odds would be in your favor at that point. You know? Like if you always assume people are scum you are eventually going to be right, but how many times do your scum reads flip green? You can hang a lot of town if all you see if scum.

118 "Well, I disagree with you that looking for scum early by asking for post motivation, especially if something looks like misrepresentation, is a bad thing." I feel like this is a misrep of what I said. In fact I think I said that these conversations can be helpful when they are good ones, I was saying that this situation wasnt one of the good ones. TR on me, maybe you realized im not the guy this game, maybe you actually tr me I dunno. I feel like youve dodged some of my posts regarding you, chopping and screwing things a bit to suit yourself.

Scum lean.

[Formerfish]

25 27 36 39 I thought this was a solid intro post. Lots of ways you can get people talking and you will see whats important to them. Good way to open up avenues to look into. What did you learn, who are you interested in talking to and why?

63 You say that Garmr had the towniest approach, can you expand on that? Same thing witt unwnd?

119 Why did you address this to skitter?

120 Why the long face?

Town lean.

[Formerfish]

Skellen

73 SR Rob because...? TR on Sherlock and Garmr for...?

74 How is something forced in a good way? Forced seems to belay the idea that one side is acting in a manner that is imagined to be the way town would act in the situation. Is it both of them? Is it one of them?

75 By the time of skitters post all I had posted was fluff, what else would they be basing a gut read off of if that was all I had posted so far?

77 I like the illumination of selectivity for nk15s vote noting that others had posted just as much bullshit as I had.

86 97 I actually liked these posts. Skellen stated a feeling she had about a player, was asked to give an example and I think provided exactly what was asked for. I do get a feeling like the goal posts get pushed back, because when an example was provided by her the argument that 1 game doesnt make an accurate meta read, which is true, but it doesnt mean the read is wrong.

99 122Vote still stand now that Sky replaced in? I dont mind the questions you are asking.

Town lean.

[Formerfish]

Sherlock

Ive been reading your iso over and over again. At some points I see a very town lean to it, and others I feel like things are a bit stale. You mention you are trying out a method of sorts. Maybe thats why im getting conflicting feelings about you. Ill look back at this again later.

[Formerfish]

Dunn

32 You too with the period. Are you guys cycling?

137 You question whether Robs vote had enough merit behind it to be made, does his vote warrant yours on him?

138 You accuse Rob of reaching. Do you see this as distancing or trying to force a scumread when he normally wouldnt?

153 If you arent using meta to sr Rob what is it based off of?

156 Are you saying that when rob pushes bad lynches he is towntelling?

Null.

[Formerfish]

unwnd

19 20 Solid RVS trolling, 100% support.

38 I get where this post is coming from. To unwnd the comment about things being null from Garmr was unnecessary to be said because if town then we would all be in the same position, and the only people who have more knowledge is the scum team. Its like Garmr made an attempt to towntell and it came off a little more try hard than he intended, the resulting tet-a-tet could be scumGarmr frustrated he got called out, or maybe feels like the correct call was made, but the reasoning is suspect.

I liked the attempts at deescalation with Garmr, even when it seems like Garmr was being more aggro than I thought the situation warranted. Like in 49 I can feel for unwnd because he asked a legit question of Garmr in 45 and then gets accused of it being a smear. The deflecting Garmr does is impressive, but obvious at its core.

55 Why would garmrs reaction change your mind about the vote Maria made?

88 104 Both look like legit reach outs, Ill have to see how Garmr reacted.

160 I dont appreciate this assessment, "Formerfish flipping out about shitposting." And I dont understand this part, "I personally find scum aren't feeling any pressure and in it's their interest to play safe, but the problem is that I feel town is not taking any risks so it's hard to decipher who's just playing the part."

Felt like you had some decent points, and handled the garmr situation well. You kinda go a little off the rails by the end, but not enough to change things.

Null to town lean.

[Formerfish]

23 24 You intro posts, ok for rvs.

33 You asked the same question I did, and have been active longer, I didnt see either of the people answer this question at all, did you press them or just assume that they didnt even have enough time to say like 5 words down, that they just both hit the same random thing to bookmark the page. Hell, you could have even asked if that was something they do in a lot of games.

37 I didnt really see anything wrong in this post in of itself, its more of the way you reacted to the question and its path after. Like in 40 you said "The way you phrase it makes it sound like it's a choice." which is weird because you totally do have the choice to not say anything about things not making sense at the moment. In fact Like 12 of us were able to get through our first few posts without pointing out that we didnt know things, but you seemed pretty interested in the person posting that they could figure something out. Maybe this is cagey scum worried they did something without knowing it and was trying to deflect the attention by attacking the integrity of the push.

41 Did this question ever get an answer?

46 Did you ever say the reason you were thinking? Yup, in 48, you point out post 38 stating its obvious contents, and then 45 where you accuse him of smearing you. No one ever really said anything about your question to Gamma, it was more the fact that you pointed out you were in a low information state. Unwnd feels like the natural state for town is going to be low info. I agree with him, we dont need to tell everyone how in the dark we are because we are all in there together. I took gammas intro as a joke, and I think others did the same. It was a good intro.

87 Ad hom attack on unwnd when I dont think it was needed. I think that we as players are well within our rights to call shit as well see it. Scum is going to use anything at their disposal and if it means that they have to say things to piss other people off they are going to. You could come back with a well thought out reply and have a discourse about where you guys have gone wrong on your reads cause thats what town has to do, you throw in the towel because if you talk about it youll enter a bad loop.

"Opinions on former fish seem to be popping up quickly." This gets its own line. I'm just thrilled that you have been keeping track. Did you set a google alarm so that when I get a mention in the thread it sends you an email?

"But I don't find that scum go into a vote blank as often anymore becuase that could backfire onto them." I dont know what you mean by this either.

106 "The people town reading him seem to have it all on gut." I feel like you are acting in a sketch where you are divulging super important information when its really innocuous. I think peoples points is why do you mention me at all if you dont have a read on me yourself. Like why do you care if im getting tred, are you afraid to have me removed from the possible mislynch pool?

112 I started to read this one ans I was like, "Shit, did I have this all wrong, could I be on tilt?" and then you posted this " I feel awkward and conflicted writing this post through because of how I think things may play out, like I can't say everything as to why I find it towny muddying some future interactions." Which just kinda plants you right on that fence with me.

158 "That being said I'm not the only one voting you anymore what do you think of nk15 jump on you?" I dont like this line. It feels like you are trying to make your vote seem bigger/better than it is because someone else is voting the same person as you. And how does he feel about someone else voting him? Thats kind of a softball question.


Kinda scummy.

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Robbnva
Afraid to vote?

NN15 did you feel like you got a satisfactory response to this question? I'm curious why you didn't really follow up

VOTE: Robbnva
Afraid to vote?

No I’m not

This is an unlikely post for scum, so I did indeed get a satisfactory response.

How?

Because scum usually care about what they say and on the surface "no I'm not" without voting sounds scummy. However, there are reasons - if you for example think that RVS is bad and that votes without knowledge are anti-town. Even if was scum answering to me like that pursuing that would not help town.

(but please consider that I am not good in finding town; I mostly rely on others in that.)

this strikes me as a townie post for some reason

I think town would say they have a hard time finding scum as opposed to town.

[Not Known 15]

No, it's just that way. I can't find town reliably, but I might find scum.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I don’t think that’s a statement that’s going to incriminate anyone at that stage, regardless of alignment.

[Garmr]

87 Ad hom attack on unwnd when I dont think it was needed.

what ad hom attack.

I'm tired since i just got home from work so some quick thoughts.

I don't like the mafiascum players aren't normal angle that's been thrown around by unwnd. It also kinda kills conversation with out giving me answers since if I keep pushing it, it will just end up in a loop.

Opinions on former fish seem to be popping up quickly.

I got a good gut feeling for skellen. I know this will sound weird and I may be applying a bit of my old self here. But I don't find that scum go into a vote blank as often anymore because that could backfire onto them. I'll type some more in the morning or afternoon depending on how long I sleep.

I didn't insult him here. I pointed out "I didn't like oh his a mafia scum player so he takes it to extreme" as it seemed like blowing me off. Also that's what would of happened and then we have pages and pages of me and him arguing the same thing and nothing productive getting done. Also you must be blind to read a adhom in that post <-example of mild friendly ad hom.

Did you ever say the reason you were thinking? Yup, in 48, you point out post 38 stating its obvious contents, and then 45 where you accuse him of smearing you. No one ever really said anything about your question to Gamma, it was more the fact that you pointed out you were in a low information state. Unwnd feels like the natural state for town is going to be low info. I agree with him, we dont need to tell everyone how in the dark we are because we are all in there together. I took gammas intro as a joke, and I think others did the same. It was a good intro.

You are wrong as multiple people asked him why is that. Why would it be scummy and pushing him on it?

"The people town reading him seem to have it all on gut." I feel like you are acting in a sketch where you are divulging super important information when its really innocuous. I think peoples points is why do you mention me at all if you dont have a read on me yourself. Like why do you care if im getting tred, are you afraid to have me removed from the possible mislynch pool?

Before the post I town read you for you done nothing actually worth town reading in my opinion. Also you are aware town don't know other players alignments and have to sort. I actually don't care that you are getting town read I didn't want to interrupt your push on NK15 so I can get a read on you. Because when you corrected me I thought you had a scum read on that slot and I thought you were actually going to do something and actually push NK15. Maybe pressure with a vote and I wanted to see how that turn out. Which is why is probably the biggest town read you because I thought I saw a town thought process and reasoning behind your play.

158 "That being said I'm not the only one voting you anymore what do you think of nk15 jump on you?" I dont like this line. It feels like you are trying to make your vote seem bigger/better than it is because someone else is voting the same person as you. And how does he feel about someone else voting him? Thats kind of a softball question.

Yeah nah my actual intention was to get a opinion on NK15 from unwnd. Because want he said he wanted to expand our little debate and I thought was a good opener as it still involved him meaning his more likely to have some sort of feelings about it. Because while my vote rests on him my scum read on him is still admittedly weak. I just haven't seen anything especially scummy this game we suggest scum are decent or aren't posting.


I look at post 189 and I feel me and you are reading two entirely different games because our understanding of events and reasoning don't match up

[Garmr]

Because want he said he wanted to expand beyond our little debate and I thought was a good opener as it still involved him meaning his more likely to have some sort of feelings about i

Fixed

[Garmr]

the biggest reason town read you because I thought I saw a town thought process and reasoning behind your play.

Man I should of proof read that post.

[Not Known 15]

5 So is this vote on rob real? I know you mention later on that you liked his answer to your question, but I feel like with how much you are pushing me for a lack of content it feels like it might be a real vote. The fact that you see "No I'm not" as a satisfactory answer 114 to that question seems like an incredibly low bar. Is that a strategy youve used before to some success?

What do you expect? The vote is there for pressure. The scum-indicativeness of that is very low, though. And the answer was good enough.

64 Have we played together? You seem to talk about me and my play like you know something about it. Or could it be that you are projecting what you think town should be doing upon me and when you see im doing my own thing over here you attack it for being different? Maybe im attempting to engage someone in particular because I could that they are more chatty as one alignment over the other. What if im looking to draw someone in because they see lhf like you guys talk about and scum loves them some easy pushes. Did you ever follow up with unwnd about why he bolded the part he did?

No I don't know how you play, and yes I am projecting what I think town should do upon you. Specifically, town should not fluff and completely ignore anything else. You didn't only post fluff until there, you also didn't do anything else like commenting on posts and their scuminess(or towniness), or making first townread observations in general without presenting evidence. Last point - I am currently voting them.

68 Yes understanding why people say things is important. And honestly I stayed out of it because I understand why unwnd was frustrated by the line of questioning, but I didnt feel like it was my fight to make, and we arent in rome any more so we are all adults that can handle our ouwn shit, maybe I like to throw people into pits and watch the carnage that ensues.

Ok.

115 You mention you arent good at finding town, does that mean you just look for scum then? I feel like the odds would be in your favor at that point. You know? Like if you always assume people are scum you are eventually going to be right, but how many times do your scum reads flip green? You can hang a lot of town if all you see if scum.

Well, no I can't because people often ignore or disagree with my reads. Unfortunately.

118 "Well, I disagree with you that looking for scum early by asking for post motivation, especially if something looks like misrepresentation, is a bad thing." I feel like this is a misrep of what I said. In fact I think I said that these conversations can be helpful when they are good ones, I was saying that this situation wasnt one of the good ones. TR on me, maybe you realized im not the guy this game, maybe you actually tr me I dunno. I feel like youve dodged some of my posts regarding you, chopping and screwing things a bit to suit yourself.

My statement wasn't precise, yes. My actual stance on it is that

I disagree with you that looking for scum early by asking for post motivation, especially if something looks like misrepresentation, is a bad thing in any situation.

In other words, doing that is always a good idea.

Scum lean.

[Professor Moriarty]

VC 1.2

unwnd (2)- Garmr, Not Known 15
Skygazer (2)- unwnd, Skellen
Formerfish (1)- Skygazer
Sherlock Holmes (1)- Formerfish
Robbnva (1)- Dunnstral
Skellen (1)- Robbnva
Garmr (1)- MariaR

Not voting (4)- skitter30, Lil Uzi Vert, Sherlock Holmes, Gamma Emerald

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2019-06-24 23:30:00)

Mod notes:

[Robbnva]

What do you expect? The vote is there for pressure.

That’s a joke though. One vote isn’t pressure. You didn’t even attempt to find out why I didn’t vote. You made an incorrect assumption and voted OR a more likely theory is you wanted to come in and look like you were being productive and fabricated a reason to vote and when I didn’t react,you decided to move on.

Either way that vote wasn’t productive or helpful

[Lil Uzi Vert]

How is the deadline in 5 days?! Has it been 9 days already?