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Almost50
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Post Post #1300  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:15 pm

In post 1296, The Fonz wrote:Cool. Who's scum then?


I have no idea, because I literally wasn't playing the game. :lol:
I was paying more attention to most every other game I was/am in.

My suspexts though are: PM (Clem/Arc slot). I was on Arc.. then Clem took over and I was like "let him be for a bit".. and yet he also replaced out.. so I dunno, but have no reason to say "this is likely town".

roster: For some off reason I SR roster in almost every game we play. I wouldn't say he's probably town here because of it, but he's NAI at best.

Croag: That charming lady is denying us the pleasure of her acquaintance. (I couldn't have phrased it in a more charming way, eh?) :lol:

Then there's your slot, and -maybe- Mumbles.

But do I have a case on either of you? Not at all. I am going with the flow for now until the game has enough reveals for me to try and mechanically solve it. I have no powers myself so I have to rely on others making the right moves.
Records: W/L
Town: 26/19, Mafia: 5/4, 3P: 1/1
Modded 2 Normals & 2 Themed games successfully.

The Fonz
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Post Post #1301  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:38 pm

In post 1297, Almost50 wrote:
In post 1290, The Fonz wrote:
In post 1284, Almost50 wrote:@Fonz: That's literally how Rick Dalton play as either alignment.

UNVOTE:

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt though, but trust me when I say it a thing on MS to never believe a claim from Flavor Leaf (Risk Dalton's main) or Bambi Jay/Elsa Jay (another player who uses 2 famous alts) and never "trust" A50's claims on D1.


Right. In which case, at what point do you start treating FL/RD's claims as genuine? If you just assume he is always lying about his role, doesn't that just hand him an unacceptable amount of leeway when he's scum? More specifically. RD claimed to have confirmed VD's claim. Isn't that absolutely terrible play if Rick is town and does't know VD's alignment? And doesn't VD's decision to counterclaim RD suggest that he very much was treating Rick's claim as serious?


I see your point, but I request that you see mine. I have literally seen FL fake claim Masons with a SCUM player before. I did get a bit angry post game (but we really should have lynched Creature there when FL flipped and was not a Mason), but the point is this is NOT how you catch scum!FL/RD. You need to either mechanically catch him, tone read him, or straight out get a Cop guilty on him.

I repeat.. I did see TOWN!Flavor Leaf fake Masons with Scum!Creature. I also saw him claiming all sorts of things when he was totally something else. There are many reasons he does it, ranging from reaction testing to looking scummy enough so as not to be NK'd to even baiting the NK.

Like, if you look closely you'd see Chicka said she didn't take my VT claim seriously. Why? Because she knows I'd do that as a PR too. I WIFOM my role so scum can't tell whether it's best to shoot me or leave me be.

I am not saying you shouldn't play in the way you feel best though. You do you, but I will never vote RD for the case presented right now because -to me- it literally isn't scum indicative of him at all.


Yawn. The bolded are all the hackneyed, discredited arguments for lying as town that have been rebutted a million times. But the theory talk can wait.

Have you ever actually caught FL as scum? Because what you're describing sounds like a playstyle designed to be scummy as town to make people dismiss scumtells as scum. If you're going to dismiss the greatest scumtell there is, being caught in a role-related lie, what are you looking for? Give me a Rick read that's not based on his claim.

Pre-edit:

Why did you town read what is now the chickadee slot based off mod error, but still suspect Foster? IMHO, Foster is either town, or is directly lying about mod interactions. If he's directly lying about mod interactions (changing his result from vanilla to no result) then that's enough of a dick move to blacklist for, and I've no reason to think he's that level of dick. If he's not lying and the mod really has changed his result, to me that basically confirms him as really a cop (and VD as really ascetic). I also felt reading through that he comes across as more relaxed here than he did as scum in ICRTNOTG.

Almost50
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Post Post #1302  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:55 pm

Fonz, my dear friend... I honestly have NOT realized roster had claimed that. I have not been reading or paying attention. I am just filling my slot for the time being, If roster said he was a Vanilla Cop that's news for me. I have something as "possible Role Cop" next to ANOTHER slot in my remarks though. I dunno why we would have a Role Cop AND a Vanilla Cop though.
Records: W/L
Town: 26/19, Mafia: 5/4, 3P: 1/1
Modded 2 Normals & 2 Themed games successfully.

The Fonz
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Post Post #1303  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:00 pm

OK. What's your Vorkuta read now?

Almost50
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Post Post #1304  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:03 pm

Damn! I thought HE was the Role Cop. OK? (Did you literally have to ask about VORKUTA if all?)
Records: W/L
Town: 26/19, Mafia: 5/4, 3P: 1/1
Modded 2 Normals & 2 Themed games successfully.

The Fonz
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Post Post #1305  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:17 pm

In post 1304, Almost50 wrote:Damn! I thought HE was the Role Cop. OK? (Did you literally have to ask about VORKUTA if all?)


Well you voted him earlier and didn't list him at all in your possible suspect list. That suspect list was two slots that were replaced in the last day, an undercontributor in Croag, a claimed cop, and one read that I have no real issue with in mumbles. Damn straight I'm going to poke around that. Quite aside from this whole role business, I've got a fair few decent town reads so yes, I'm going to be pressing on things that seem off outside that group. And this was a useful response.

Rick Dalton
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Post Post #1306  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:03 pm

Fonz is just scum, A50
This right here’s my stunt double, Cliff Booth

pisskop
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Post Post #1307  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:25 pm

VC 3.05-
the fonz -: Chickadee, vorkuta, rick dalton, PMysterious
Rick Dalton -: Vaultdweller, rosterfoster, The Fonz
Vaultdweller -: Lil Uzi Vert, Darth Baker
mumble -: croag


Not voting -: johhny sno, mumble, Almost50
-



Lynch InfoWith 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch!
Day 3 ends on 01/09/2019 ((expired on 2019-09-17 10:00:00)).
Last edited by pisskop on Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
beeboy - Everyone thought this game was made to troll pie but it was really made to troll pisskop.
pisskop - Only people who have next to zero chance of being the NK volunteer to be the nk.

Darth Baker
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Post Post #1308  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:41 pm

It appears I was wrong.VOTE: Eyyyyyyyy (Fonz)

VaultDweller
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Post Post #1309  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:07 am

In post 1261, The Fonz wrote:VOTE: Rick Dalton

Guys, lynch all liars. Seriously.


Anything else to comment on in the game? What is your reads on everyone else? Because this being your only post after catching up is incredibly scummy.

VaultDweller
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Post Post #1310  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:08 am

Sorry, I haven't had my morning coffee yet and missed the last two pages. Ignore the above while I catch up.

The Fonz
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Post Post #1311  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:30 am

In post 1309, VaultDweller wrote:
In post 1261, The Fonz wrote:VOTE: Rick Dalton

Guys, lynch all liars. Seriously.


Anything else to comment on in the game? What is your reads on everyone else? Because this being your only post after catching up is incredibly scummy.


Not really. Someone's been caught in a lie; that is far and away the most important issue of the day. Posting a load of other stuff that's much less important would dramatically increase the noise to signal ratio. I tend to suspect people who do that: it's a "Look town" rather than help-town move.

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Post Post #1312  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:06 am

Ok, here's my "look town" move:

Slankers and/or sheeping players - Croag, DB
Players popping in, making some reads and disappearing again - johnny sno, LUV, mumble
Players changing their reads constantly - a50, Rick Dalton, Vorkuta
Players who's claims I believe and probably won't be voting today - Chickadee, rosterfoster
New players whom I have yet to sort - Pmysterious, The Fonz

Pretty pointless list, but just thought I'd put it out there.

VaultDweller
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Post Post #1313  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:08 am

In post 1311, The Fonz wrote:Someone's been caught in a lie;


Based on what everyone has said of Rick, do you still believe he is scum, or is it more of a PL?

The Fonz
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Post Post #1314  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:37 am

In post 1313, VaultDweller wrote:
In post 1311, The Fonz wrote:Someone's been caught in a lie;


Based on what everyone has said of Rick, do you still believe he is scum, or is it more of a PL?


Ah, my sweet summer child. It's both. I don't lynch liars because my instincts tell me they're scum: I lynch liars because in spite of my instincts, liars are nearly always scum. There's a thread in MD from back when I played regularly on this: if 60% of people who lie about their roles are scum, you have to be able to hit something like 90% certainty rate in telling between town and scum liars. I'm pretty sure well over 60% of liars are scum, and after five years away I'm definitely not hitting 90% accuracy.

That said, my instincts also say he's scum. Viz:

1) CCed fakeclaims are significantly more likely to be scum than ones which are only found out when admitted;
2) The very fact he drew a CC and managed to survive shows the scum utility of the move, while the town utility is unclear;
3) He called you scum for CCing him, which in spite of people saying he's a frequent town liar, is not something I've found in a relatively quick meta dig, and looks for all the world like scum trying to discredit a town role calling him out.
4) He suddenly "remembers" that Creature was a scummy all along when I attack him, despite claiming to be good at reading Creature, and to not have raised this while creature was in the game.
5) He relies in defence on lying being his meta, and yet despite acknowledging that what I'm doing here is what I normally do as town, comes up with a reachy theory about how I'm scum doing what I normally do as town to get a mislynch. This fails occam's razor, hard.

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Post Post #1315  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:50 am

I'm glad you pointed out point 5, because it is something I noticed as well. I especially like how these two posts are right after each other (emphasis mine):

In post 1287, Rick Dalton wrote:
In post 1284, Almost50 wrote:@Fonz: That's literally how Rick Dalton play as either alignment.

UNVOTE:

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt though, but trust me when I say it a thing on MS to never believe a claim from Flavor Leaf (Risk Dalton's main) or Bambi Jay/Elsa Jay (another player who uses 2 famous alts) and never "trust" A50's claims on D1.


A50, if you’re scum, this is the scummiest post you’ve made this game. Scratch that, this is the scummiest post you’ve made all game. I still think you’re probably town.

You back tracked because Fonz says that’s literally his meta. Why is that AI at all then?

That just makes it so it’s the perfect push tbh. This actually could be A50/Fonz scum pairing if I go deeper, but I don’t really know. I don’t really have a strong clue where scum is right now.

In post 1288, Rick Dalton wrote:
In post 1279, PMysterious wrote:Rick, I find your posts to be all over the place. The only thing that could be true is that there is at least one Ninja in this game. Everything else just confuses me, almost like an enigma.


That’s how you can tell I’m town.

Ask A50 how consistent I am as scum. I’m a cunning sociopath.

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Post Post #1316  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:22 am

In post 1312, VaultDweller wrote:Players changing their reads constantly - a50, Rick Dalton, Vorkuta

Yes! I'm in the big leagues!

*ahem*
Your point being?
Is it even possible to read lurkers w/o meta?
"Vork are you really confused about editing your sig?" ~Formerfish

VaultDweller
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Post Post #1317  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:59 am

In post 1316, Vorkuta wrote:
In post 1312, VaultDweller wrote:Players changing their reads constantly - a50, Rick Dalton, Vorkuta

Yes! I'm in the big leagues!

*ahem*
Your point being?
Is it even possible to read lurkers w/o meta?


In post 1312, VaultDweller wrote:Pretty pointless list,

Rick Dalton
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Post Post #1318  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:26 pm

Nope. Don’t lie. All serious claims. They just aren’t real.
This right here’s my stunt double, Cliff Booth

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Post Post #1319  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:26 pm

This is a deduction game.
This right here’s my stunt double, Cliff Booth

Rick Dalton
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Post Post #1320  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:27 pm

In post 1316, Vorkuta wrote:
In post 1312, VaultDweller wrote:Players changing their reads constantly - a50, Rick Dalton, Vorkuta

Yes! I'm in the big leagues!

*ahem*
Your point being?
Is it even possible to read lurkers w/o meta?


That’s called being town and unsure of where exactly scum is, and not surface level enough to think they’re gonna be able to get it exactly right at this moment in time
This right here’s my stunt double, Cliff Booth

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Post Post #1321  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:31 pm

I'm reading alone, but also battling an exhausting sinus infection. So cheers.
Garlic is the spice of life.
GTKAS

(expired on 2019-08-30 21:30:00)

Rick Dalton
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Post Post #1322  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:07 pm

Like,

Let me be perfectly clear...

Fonz’s case is technically “correct”, but the conclusion itself is wrong, and he’s pushing an agenda of “this is all bad play” rather than “this is all scum play”, which is kind of him getting caught out on perspective.

I’m not entirely confident that he flips scum, to be honest, but the way he’s been pushing seems like the epitome of scum upset that they’re getting wagon’d for putting together an accurate mislynch case on town, if that makes sense.

I say we just lynch Fonz. There’s probably scum on the wagon no matter what he flips, tbh. If he flips scum, i think there’s some good association tells.
This right here’s my stunt double, Cliff Booth

Rick Dalton
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Post Post #1323  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:21 pm

I also don’t rely on lying as a defense. I do the exact opposite; I rely on it as an offense.
This right here’s my stunt double, Cliff Booth

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Post Post #1324  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:07 pm

I do think there's a good wagon analysis if he flips town. It was kind of alarming how quickly the wagon built. But I also get the feel that people are excited about something happening in the game, and just want blood at this point.

But I do think it's a good lynch.
Garlic is the spice of life.
GTKAS

(expired on 2019-08-30 21:30:00)

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