Mini Normal 2197: Noraaland ~Endgame~

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Aristophanes
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Post Post #1350  (ISO)  » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:10 am

In post 1344, Infinity 324 wrote:Again, based on my outdated setup intuitions, this would be balanced if you gave town a 2-shot cop
??

I think this was overall pretty balanced actually but look at the power Town had.

Loyal Alien gives a cleared protection. While it can block said player's role, it basically is a cop shot if there is no death of a night, unlike the JK. Now having the JK calls this into question and I like that the two roles get a lot of contention. That balanced them out greatly imo. Having both in the game makes for a possible 1v1 in claiming and also makes the Alien clear less clear while the JK could go either way.

Gunsmith had a possibility of guilties too, though risked getting the Vig which as I think about it had a lot more balance to it.

Scum had a low-powered gunsmith that was only a backup and a no-powered ascetic as the chances of it being used on a night when the gunsmith checked the player are very low.

I actually like how the chances of a successful vig, NK, and gunsmith check are ho heavily hindered by the JK, Alien, and Ascetic. It's a really nice balance.

Cop would have way townsided that.

After all this, I have to say, great setup Gypyx :)


Oops, manymany ninjas :P
Half meme, Half real, All Aristophanes ;) - Jingle
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Ircher
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Post Post #1351  (ISO)  » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:13 am

Gg everyone! Scum played rather well and deserved the win.

With regards to the setup, I think it seems okay as it is, but I do think the mafia gunsmith dying --> town backup gunsmith is a bad interaction from a swing perspective. Loyal alien, N1 N3 jailkeeper, and 3-shot vigilantes are all very strong roles even despite the slight anti-synergy between the alien and the jailkeeper. I would say those three roles alone would probably be balanced against the 1-shot ascetic. (Granted, I haven't thought too hard about this setup.) Adding the gunsmith and backup gunsmith is probably going to keep the setup fairly close to balanced while significantly increasing swing.
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Infinity 324
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Post Post #1352  (ISO)  » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:24 am

In post 1350, Aristophanes wrote:I think this was overall pretty balanced actually but look at the power Town had.


Not disputing any of this, I do think my intuitions are outdated

The thing that happened this game which made the alien protect not a clear is probably a pretty common occurrence for this setup though. All that has to happen is for the alien to die before they claim.

To me the gunsmith/backup gunsmith combo should favor scum because it's pretty unlikely the scum role dies before the town one, but it's true that the upside to town is higher.
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Infinity 324
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Post Post #1353  (ISO)  » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:41 am

In post 1349, Infinity 324 wrote:In this game the only power that was relevant was 1 shot of the vig (and the no kill was a bit helpful I guess), and it didn't feel particularly unlucky for town


This isn't really right, the vig getting blocked isn't great, and if the alien lives longer/gets a save on n2 it's way better for town. I guess it's a function of most of the town's power being protective, small-probability events increase town's winrate by a lot. I enjoy setups that have guaranteed clears more I guess
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Aristophanes
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Post Post #1354  (ISO)  » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:50 am

In post 1353, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 1349, Infinity 324 wrote:In this game the only power that was relevant was 1 shot of the vig (and the no kill was a bit helpful I guess), and it didn't feel particularly unlucky for town


This isn't really right, the vig getting blocked isn't great, and if the alien lives longer/gets a save on n2 it's way better for town. I guess it's a function of most of the town's power being protective, small-probability events increase town's winrate by a lot. I enjoy setups that have guaranteed clears more I guess
I understand that, and it's definitely a style of game design. I am far more partial to encouraging dayplay despite the roles present. I love a good undermining of expectations and this game had a lot of that.

Having a role that clears/guilties can really demoralize scum and generally it's not worth the tradeoff imo.

Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 1350, Aristophanes wrote:I think this was overall pretty balanced actually but look at the power Town had.


Not disputing any of this, I do think my intuitions are outdated

The thing that happened this game which made the alien protect not a clear is probably a pretty common occurrence for this setup though. All that has to happen is for the alien to die before they claim.

To me the gunsmith/backup gunsmith combo should favor scum because it's pretty unlikely the scum role dies before the town one, but it's true that the upside to town is higher.
All good, mine might be outdated too tbh.

Gunsmith/Backup was a cool interaction but it had the potential to decimate the scumteam. You take away scum numbers and reward town with a means to do that even more thoroughly. We were lucky the backup went down and that the main Gunsmith outlived them, because that could have recked us.
Half meme, Half real, All Aristophanes ;) - Jingle
Now not only are you proficient in stupid
you're proficient in stupid in two languages
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Ari has appeared way too competent for me to even pretend to know what they're thinking
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Toogeloo
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Post Post #1355  (ISO)  » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:58 am

In post 1336, Aristophanes wrote:Toogs, I don't recall if I said so in the dead chat, but you absolutely killed it this game! Especially for someone who hates playing as scum! Like, you were fantastic

You should look at my wiki for mafia-aligned games. It's pretty ridiculous. I hate playing mafia-aligned because of the mental and slightly physical tolls I take, but my win rate is high. This game played out a lot like Hypnotists or Mortal Kombat mafia for me.

Aristophanes
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Post Post #1356  (ISO)  » Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:03 am

In post 1355, Toogeloo wrote:
In post 1336, Aristophanes wrote:Toogs, I don't recall if I said so in the dead chat, but you absolutely killed it this game! Especially for someone who hates playing as scum! Like, you were fantastic

You should look at my wiki for mafia-aligned games. It's pretty ridiculous. I hate playing mafia-aligned because of the mental and slightly physical tolls I take, but my win rate is high. This game played out a lot like Hypnotists or Mortal Kombat mafia for me.
O.o

That winrate! :O

Holy shit I'm impressed!
Half meme, Half real, All Aristophanes ;) - Jingle
Now not only are you proficient in stupid
you're proficient in stupid in two languages
CONGRATULATIONS - Silverclaw
Ari has appeared way too competent for me to even pretend to know what they're thinking
- MooseEatsBear on discord mafia

Infinity 324
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Post Post #1357  (ISO)  » Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:08 am

In post 1354, Aristophanes wrote:I understand that, and it's definitely a style of game design. I am far more partial to encouraging dayplay despite the roles present. I love a good undermining of expectations and this game had a lot of that.

Having a role that clears/guilties can really demoralize scum and generally it's not worth the tradeoff imo.


I can see why, I don't really think my style would value dayplay less so much as it increases the odds that the night actions do their job for town. I'd much rather play a game where 70% of the time if I play decent I win and 30% I get a tough break from the setup than a game where 70% of the time I have to play really well to win and 30% of the time everything goes amazing and the game is pretty easy. I can see why it would be less enjoyable for scum the other way around though. However, splitting the power up more between the roles will probably help swinginess on both sides, and I still do think it would be nice to have a real investigative for town (doesn't have to be an actual cop obviously).

In conclusion, normals suck, I'm going back to the open/micro/theme queues :)
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Infinity 324
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Post Post #1358  (ISO)  » Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:11 am

In post 1354, Aristophanes wrote:Gunsmith/Backup was a cool interaction but it had the potential to decimate the scumteam. You take away scum numbers and reward town with a means to do that even more thoroughly. We were lucky the backup went down and that the main Gunsmith outlived them, because that could have recked us.


I wouldn't say you had to get lucky for the backup to die before the gunsmith, since town roles die at a faster rate than scum. It was another "oops we win" factor that could've went town's way though.
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Dannflor
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Post Post #1359  (ISO)  » Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:59 am

wp toog

sorry for leaving you high and dry there

Ircher
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Post Post #1360  (ISO)  » Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:26 pm

In post 1308, Bhad Bhabie wrote:Noraaland villain chat: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=85954
Noraaland hell chat: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=85936&p=12608681#p12608681
Noraaland spec chat: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=85937
Noraaland jacko chat: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=86005
Noraaland creator chat: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=85567

I don't think any of these were actually released yet. I get a "Not Authorized" error when trying to open them.
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Aristophanes
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Post Post #1361  (ISO)  » Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:27 pm

In post 1360, Ircher wrote:
In post 1308, Bhad Bhabie wrote:Noraaland villain chat: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=85954
Noraaland hell chat: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=85936&p=12608681#p12608681
Noraaland spec chat: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=85937
Noraaland jacko chat: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=86005
Noraaland creator chat: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=85567

I don't think any of these were actually released yet. I get a "Not Authorized" error when trying to open them.
Give it a couple hours, she's been busy lol
Half meme, Half real, All Aristophanes ;) - Jingle
Now not only are you proficient in stupid
you're proficient in stupid in two languages
CONGRATULATIONS - Silverclaw
Ari has appeared way too competent for me to even pretend to know what they're thinking
- MooseEatsBear on discord mafia

Noraa
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Post Post #1362  (ISO)  » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:19 pm

uh guys I'm really busy. I might release them tomorrow after I wrap up the stuff but for now, patience my tsunamis.
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Bhad Bhabie
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Post Post #1363  (ISO)  » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:23 pm

Or perhaps if I am bribed with bear gifs, I'll do it today. We'll see how good yall's bear gifs are ig.
He who dies with the most money is, nonetheless, still dead.
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Aristophanes
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Post Post #1364  (ISO)  » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:32 pm

In post 1363, Bhad Bhabie wrote:Or perhaps if I am bribed with bear gifs, I'll do it today. We'll see how good yall's bear gifs are ig.
Ask and you shall receive :)

Spoiler:
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
Half meme, Half real, All Aristophanes ;) - Jingle
Now not only are you proficient in stupid
you're proficient in stupid in two languages
CONGRATULATIONS - Silverclaw
Ari has appeared way too competent for me to even pretend to know what they're thinking
- MooseEatsBear on discord mafia

Noraa
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Post Post #1365  (ISO)  » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:38 pm

I am convinced
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Bhad Bhabie
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Post Post #1366  (ISO)  » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:41 pm

In post 1308, Bhad Bhabie wrote:Noraaland villain chat: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=85954
Noraaland hell chat: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=85936
Noraaland spec chat: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=85937
Noraaland jacko chat: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=86005
Noraaland creator chat: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=85567


Everything except scum pt released because scum pt is pending redactions.
He who dies with the most money is, nonetheless, still dead.
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Aristophanes
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Post Post #1367  (ISO)  » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:55 pm

=D
Half meme, Half real, All Aristophanes ;) - Jingle
Now not only are you proficient in stupid
you're proficient in stupid in two languages
CONGRATULATIONS - Silverclaw
Ari has appeared way too competent for me to even pretend to know what they're thinking
- MooseEatsBear on discord mafia

Aristophanes
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Post Post #1368  (ISO)  » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:25 pm

Heyyyy!
I hate being ~that guy~ but I noticed something that I think is a mod error and I'm mostly posting this just so it's noted and not to shame the mod(s) who did a great job this game!

Subject: Mini 2194 Noraaland Mod pt.

Noraa wrote:Night 2 Actions

Night 2 ActionsAristophanes kills Haschel Cedricson
Toogeloo Gunsmiths Infinity 324
MURDERCAT shoots Aristophanes
Haschel Cedricson Aliens Aristophanes


Haschel's action would have gone through first, making my kill fail, and making MURDERCAT's kill fail. Both of us should have lived the night, not died here.
Half meme, Half real, All Aristophanes ;) - Jingle
Now not only are you proficient in stupid
you're proficient in stupid in two languages
CONGRATULATIONS - Silverclaw
Ari has appeared way too competent for me to even pretend to know what they're thinking
- MooseEatsBear on discord mafia

Haschel Cedricson
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Post Post #1369  (ISO)  » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:26 pm

No, my action failed if I targeted somebody of a different alignment.
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MURDERCAT
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Post Post #1370  (ISO)  » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:27 pm

^
Trying to read me? Check my meta. (19-14-2) --- GTKAMURDERCAT
Taking a break from new games for the next 49 days, 8 hours, 19 minutes

Aristophanes
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Post Post #1371  (ISO)  » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:29 pm

OH I FORGOT IT WAS LOYAL!!

Fuck me XD
I take that back entirely. Thanks for clarifying!

Man, this setup had a lot of working parts for a Normal!
Half meme, Half real, All Aristophanes ;) - Jingle
Now not only are you proficient in stupid
you're proficient in stupid in two languages
CONGRATULATIONS - Silverclaw
Ari has appeared way too competent for me to even pretend to know what they're thinking
- MooseEatsBear on discord mafia

Noraa
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Post Post #1372  (ISO)  » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:35 pm

villain chat released!
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clidd
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Post Post #1373  (ISO)  » Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:18 pm

Interesting game to read.

Your emulation of a town mentality was good, Toog. I'm surprised.

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