Mini Normal 2209: Musicals II [Endgame]


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Post Post #50 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2021 4:25 am

Post by T3 »

In post 38, bloodhail wrote:avatars are against my cult
FTFY
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Post Post #51 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2021 4:28 am

Post by T3 »

In post 36, bloodhail wrote:why is being interactive town
I feel like that's a little like asking why is a vt pm town.
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Post Post #52 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2021 4:32 am

Post by bloodhail »

In post 51, T3 wrote:
In post 36, bloodhail wrote:why is being interactive town
I feel like that's a little like asking why is a vt pm town.
interacting with people is part of the game as either alignment

why would i not be interacting as scum

this makes no sense
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Post Post #53 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2021 4:36 am

Post by T3 »

Yeah but like early game + gut. Anyways your questioning of that tr makes you more towny.
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Post Post #54 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2021 5:17 am

Post by Dannflor »

VC 1.01
Image


votes
[1] Not Voting
:
T3

[3] InsidiousLemons
:
boxxy, bloodhail, UNOwen
[1] bloodhail
:
ChannelDelibird
[1] T3
:
ItalianoVD
[1] Not_Mafia
:
Not_Mafia
[1] boxxy
:
Anya
[1] ItalianoVD
:
InsidiousLemons

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate


The Day 1 deadline is in
: (expired on 2021-05-23 16:52:03)

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Post Post #55 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2021 5:20 am

Post by boxxy »

In post 52, bloodhail wrote: why would i not be interacting as scum

this makes no sense
Scum want to stay under the radar. It's why sheeping is a scum play.
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Post Post #56 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2021 5:31 am

Post by ItalianoVD »

In post 27, bloodhail wrote:3. if i was good at lying, do you think i'd tell you
I don’t know. You tell me. :wink:
In post 28, ChannelDelibird wrote:
In post 10, ItalianoVD wrote:VOTE: T3

For answering seriously!
Do you think T3 is more likely to do that as scum than town?
Have no clue. The no response kinda ruined the attempt at a reaction.

In post 28, ChannelDelibird wrote:
In post 11, ItalianoVD wrote:1. What’s your mafia experience?
2. Do you like playing as town better? Or mafia better?
3. Is it hard for you to lie? Or can you do it with no problem? Both in real life and in mafia?
1. Lots of it, but ages ago. I was only intermittently any good, though.
2. I don't hate being scum, but I strongly prefer being town.
3. I'm pretty good at lying, and I blame mafia for it. The key thing about it is that keeping up the facade for extended periods of time drains my energy pretty rapidly, which is why I prefer being town, especially in forum games which take longer.
Good to know. Thanks. :)
In post 28, ChannelDelibird wrote:
In post 13, boxxy wrote:CDB why the bloodhail vote?
In post 20, ItalianoVD wrote:
In post 13, boxxy wrote:CDB why the bloodhail vote?
We’re in RVS are we not?
Why assume the reasoning for my vote instead of letting me answer the question first, Italiano?
It’s not really an assumption. RVS is RVS. I more so wanted to know boxxy’s reason for asking. If he was in or out of RVS. It would of made me understand him better.
In post 28, ChannelDelibird wrote:My vote wasn't random. I'm a big believer in getting to the meat of the game as quickly as possible - which is the stated purpose of 'random votes', a convention which arose as the most reliable way to do that - so I always try to do the most useful thing possible with my vote even if it's very early. For that reason, I voted for someone who already had a vote; creating larger wagons quickly is likely to lead to more interesting reactions than an even distribution would. Chose bloodhail over NM because, to my recollection, NM is the only player here with whom I'd played before, so I wanted to start with a player about whom I knew nothing in order to try to get a feel for them as quickly as possible.
Okay good. Although for me wanting to get out of RVS is nai. I’ve caught scum before trying to get out of RVS because it’s what town would do. Plenty of town do it as well to so I won’t be able to use this to fully read you, but I’ll keep it mind coupling it with the rest of your play.

I do agree however that forming a wagon early on someone gets reactions as well so I can dig it.
In post 49, Not_Mafia wrote:RQS is anti-town nobody answer
Too late. They already did.

Image

Anyone who doesn’t answer now is anti-town.

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Post Post #57 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2021 5:40 am

Post by boxxy »

In post 56, ItalianoVD wrote: Anyone who doesn’t answer now is anti-town.
And yet you still haven't answered your own questions despite me asking you too. Curious.
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Post Post #58 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2021 5:50 am

Post by boxxy »

In post 49, Not_Mafia wrote:RQS is anti-town nobody answer
Honestly I'm pretty out of date on the meta. I'd love for you to expand why you think RQS is anti-town, and for ItalianoVD to expand on why he thinks its pro-town.
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Post Post #59 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2021 5:51 am

Post by ItalianoVD »

In post 47, InsidiousLemons wrote:full disclosure the bloodhail unvote was stonedposting, i popped into the thread, panicked, realized my mistake and dipped lol. anya's attempted hammer test here was actually an okay idea, and it's a more adventurous play than what i'd expect of her. that's a good thing.
Why’d you panic?
In post 47, InsidiousLemons wrote:VOTE: Italiano for preempting delibird. and i don't like the "if we're the same alignment" in -- why not just say "if you're town"?
Is preemption really scum indicative? I’ve already explained why I responded to boxxy the way I did. And saying “if you’re town” can be faked by scum. It would be weird for me to say that in thread if we’re scum partners. Because I know I’m town I don’t have to highlight the fact that I am the way scum do. (Even though I just did, curse you.) :lol:
In post 47, InsidiousLemons wrote: let me be clear: i don't think anyone should claim D1 until absolutely necessary. this site's meta has become infested with pointless early claims and it's terrible
I must have missed it. Why is this being said?
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Post Post #60 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2021 5:53 am

Post by ItalianoVD »

In post 57, boxxy wrote:
In post 56, ItalianoVD wrote: Anyone who doesn’t answer now is anti-town.
And yet you still haven't answered your own questions despite me asking you too. Curious.
Umm...

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Post Post #61 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2021 5:58 am

Post by boxxy »

I see it now, sorry.

Maybe leave the quotes as just quotes then though next time? The pro-town play is to make sure your posts are easy to read.

1. Been playing in person for years, played on this site a few times many years ago.
2. Town
3. Yes, no, both.
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Post Post #62 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2021 6:01 am

Post by ItalianoVD »

In post 58, boxxy wrote:and for ItalianoVD to expand on why he thinks its pro-town.
I think RQS is nai. Where I believe it becomes pro town or anti-town is in the questioning. There’s two types of questioning for RQS. Questions that can help move the game forward and get true reactions from the playerlist and those that don’t really serve a purpose or possibly challenge people. (i.e. “who’s that in your avatar” or “what’s your favorite food” etc.)

I’ve never played with the majority of the playerlist so even though it is still RQS I really wanted to know the answers here so I can get a better feel for everyone.
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Post Post #63 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2021 6:03 am

Post by ItalianoVD »

In post 61, boxxy wrote:Maybe leave the quotes as just quotes then though next time? The pro-town play is to make sure your posts are easy to read.
True true. I’ll make sure to format it better from now on.
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Post Post #64 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2021 6:03 am

Post by UNOwen »

In post 47, InsidiousLemons wrote: VOTE: Italiano for preempting delibird. and i don't like the "if we're the same alignment" in -- why not just say "if you're town"?

@owen i actually don't mind the boxxy vote -- in the absence of anything else to really comment on, it's a decent way to gauge a reaction, if nothing else. even if i had been
of sound mind
, i probably wouldn't have thought too much of it. it doesn't feel like a particularly opportunistic play to me. bloodhail's sheep of it, on the other hand, moreso.
My question was more why you didn't provide the reaction and just ignored it, but you've explained that anyway.
Opportunistic sheeping sounds more worthy of a vote than the points you made about Italiano. What is the scum perspective for either of them?
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Post Post #65 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2021 7:48 am

Post by InsidiousLemons »

In post 41, Anya wrote:i wanted to 1up you in forceness i don't actually think it
i don't know how i feel about this answer. it kind of reads like anya getting called out for sheeping with the same reasoning and not really having an answer
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Post Post #66 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2021 7:57 am

Post by InsidiousLemons »

In post 59, ItalianoVD wrote:
In post 47, InsidiousLemons wrote: let me be clear: i don't think anyone should claim D1 until absolutely necessary. this site's meta has become infested with pointless early claims and it's terrible
I must have missed it. Why is this being said?
it was a response to boxxy's suggestion that i'm rolefishing
In post 59, ItalianoVD wrote:
In post 47, InsidiousLemons wrote:full disclosure the bloodhail unvote was stonedposting, i popped into the thread, panicked, realized my mistake and dipped lol. anya's attempted hammer test here was actually an okay idea, and it's a more adventurous play than what i'd expect of her. that's a good thing.
Why’d you panic?
because i didn't want scum to quicklim town!bloodhail on page 2? if he really was at E-1 that early, wouldn't
you
unvote? we're playing a 9p, which would mean that a town elim followed by a NK would leave us one miselim away from LyLo. being in that situation on D2 with only 2 pages' worth of prior information is a terrible situation for town. keep in mind that i didn't think this through nearly so much at the time, because of my aforementioned inebriation. but i do stand by the unvote in the scenario where bloodhail really was at E-1, because to me, that was the apparent reality of the situation.
In post 59, ItalianoVD wrote: Is preemption really scum indicative?
it certainly tends to be, as far as i've seen. what motivation does a town player have to prevent a given player from voicing their opinion/defending themself? the more we force people to defend themselves on their own, the more we can determine their thought process and logic, and attempt to evaluate what perspective it's coming from. preemption opens the door for the person under pressure to simply copy the reasoning of their defender, and takes useful information away from town.
In post 59, ItalianoVD wrote:And saying “if you’re town” can be faked by scum.
my argument isn't that "if you're town" is town AI, but that "if we're the same alignment" is scum AI. deliberately vague and cautious phrasing like this does indeed more often come from scum, in my experience.
In post 59, ItalianoVD wrote:It would be weird for me to say that in thread if we’re scum partners. Because I know I’m town I don’t have to highlight the fact that I am the way scum do.
so what if it's weird? we don't know your alignment either way, it makes no difference to us. town doesn't think about what's "weird to say", they think about what's true. maybe it would be weird to your scumpartner, but you can save that for the PT. i don't like this defense at all. as scum, your partner's opinion of you and your actions is irrelevant. "if we're the same alignment" feels like you trying to cover all the options and specifically avoid implying your alignment to try and appear town -- if we really were scumpartners, you'd know that, so there would be no reason to phrase the sentence this way. as you said, town isn't concerned with trying to appear town. so why are you?
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Post Post #67 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2021 8:00 am

Post by InsidiousLemons »

In post 64, UNOwen wrote:Opportunistic sheeping sounds more worthy of a vote than the points you made about Italiano. What is the scum perspective for either of them?
that's your opinion. for my money, italiano is the better vote here. don't misunderstand me, bloodhail still gets the ol' FoS from me.

re: scum motivation: preempting cbd's response could be motivated either by defending scumpartner!cdb or attempting to buddy town!cdb. as i explained above, i don't think there's ever a good reason for town to defend another player who hasn't yet responded to the accusations against them. the scum motivation for saying "if we're the same alignment" is to try and appear to have as little information about the game as possible, i.e., to appear town. but scumpartners lemons and italiano would
know
they were the same alignment, so there's no need to say it this way. it's performative ignorance. no matter how you slice it, italiano's phrasing reads like a conscious attempt to appear town -- and town, generally speaking, doesn't need to concern themselves with appearances.
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Post Post #68 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2021 8:01 am

Post by InsidiousLemons »

is a good post. i want to hear more from you.
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Post Post #69 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2021 10:10 am

Post by T3 »

Not sure if I like lemons rn, feels different to the previous game. Italiano feeling town.
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Post Post #70 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2021 10:33 am

Post by UNOwen »

In post 67, InsidiousLemons wrote: that's your opinion. for my money, italiano is the better vote here. don't misunderstand me, bloodhail still gets the ol' FoS from me.

re: scum motivation: preempting cbd's response could be motivated either by defending scumpartner!cdb or attempting to buddy town!cdb. as i explained above, i don't think there's ever a good reason for town to defend another player who hasn't yet responded to the accusations against them. the scum motivation for saying "if we're the same alignment" is to try and appear to have as little information about the game as possible, i.e., to appear town. but scumpartners lemons and italiano would
know
they were the same alignment, so there's no need to say it this way. it's performative ignorance. no matter how you slice it, italiano's phrasing reads like a conscious attempt to appear town -- and town, generally speaking, doesn't need to concern themselves with appearances.
First point is reasonable. The second is confusing. It looks like you're suggesting Italiano might've been trying to pretend tonot know his own alignment, which surely isn't what you mean. What is the distinction between "if we're the same alignment" and "if you're town", couldn't they both be seen as examples of performative ignorance?

I like the conviction in your explanation though so suspect this is something that's being lost in translation from your brain to mine.
In post 68, InsidiousLemons wrote: is a good post. i want to hear more from you.
Was going to say this is a good post, but the last person to say this was scum so maybe not. :P
Typically my contributions get more involved as the day progresses.
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Post Post #71 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2021 10:38 am

Post by UNOwen »

UNVOTE: InsidiousLemons
VOTE: Anya
Lemons makes a good point about Anya's change of tack. doesn't look like it was intended as a troll vote.

@T3 - Can you describe the difference in play you're feeling?
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Post Post #72 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2021 11:06 am

Post by InsidiousLemons »

In post 70, UNOwen wrote:What is the distinction between "if we're the same alignment" and "if you're town", couldn't they both be seen as examples of performative ignorance?
for me, the difference lies in the thought process behind phrasing things directly versus phrasing them ambiguously. if you say you hope i'm town, you mean you hope i'm town. if you say you hope we're the same alignment, you
also
mean you hope i'm town. so then why say it the second way? why waste time say lot word when few word do trick? because you want to leave as much room for ambiguity in your statement as possible, to give the impression of someone who isn't ruling out any possibility. the irony of the situation is that town almost never gets this far inside their own head. they aren't worried about how ambiguous their statement is, or whether they might get accused of LAMIST, or what a hypothetical scumpartner might think of them saying "i hope you're town" in the game thread. all that matters is finding scum.
In post 59, ItalianoVD wrote:Because I know I’m town I don’t have to highlight the fact that I am the way scum do. (Even though I just did, curse you.)
town is typically not this conscious of what they do and do not have to imply, what they should or should not emphasize. and yet, in trying to avoid highlighting the fact that he's town, italiano has inadvertently tipped his hand and shown us that this is what he's doing. as i've mentioned already, if we really were scum together, italiano wouldn't have to "hope" we're the same alignment because he'd know. there simply is not any town motivation to ambiguate your statement like this. while "i hope you're town"
can
be performative in the sense that it can be utilized by scum, "i hope we're the same alignment" feels almost
exclusively
performative, as an attempt to avoid accusations of just that -- performativity; LAMIST.

i've now typed a whole lot of words about what is ultimately, imo, a minor point. but although i wouldn't have blathered on quite this much unprompted, i do think it's worth remembering -- the most minor differences in phrasing can sometimes be the most telling.
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Post Post #73 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2021 11:07 am

Post by InsidiousLemons »

i hope i've done a good job of articulating myself here. when i type too much about the same thing i can sometimes lose the plot.
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Post Post #74 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2021 11:16 am

Post by Anya »

In post 57, boxxy wrote:
In post 56, ItalianoVD wrote: Anyone who doesn’t answer now is anti-town.
And yet you still haven't answered your own questions despite me asking you too. Curious.
do you think that actually makes him a wolf? fascinating.
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