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Post Post #950 (ISO) » Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:36 pm

Post by Dragon of the West »

In post 924, Menalque wrote:Anyway, who’s scum, DotW?
Tbh, I'm kinda lost on everyone's claims and which ones have been confirmed. I'm not treating claims as town by default so with a grain of salt in case I missed something that's confirmed:
Skitter is probs scum
I don't feel good about your or Peta's slot (recently how Peta is saying he might not use his night action for fear of messing up other interactions bothered me)
Dwlee feels off this game but he might just be less active
Ydra - I really have no read on at all...because the play from that slot is ridiculous and I don't think benefits town but I also think that sometimes town plays weird/shitty

Pedit: too many posts since I started typing, will catch up in order
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Post Post #951 (ISO) » Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:43 pm

Post by Morning Tweet »

In post 949, Dwlee99 wrote:Who is MT? I'm guessing an alt but of who?
I'm the original me!
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Post Post #952 (ISO) » Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:47 pm

Post by Dragon of the West »

In post 937, Menalque wrote:
In post 933, Dragon of the West wrote:
In post 923, Menalque wrote:T3 is conftown now my dude, because he flipped and is scum
Yeah, thought you meant they were obvtown at the time. I guess my point is me voting someone who I didn't realize was town and then saying I'm waiting for someone to catch up so we can get content out of them and now I've stated I'm willing to vote them doesn't really seem like an actual reason to scumread me
In post 934, Dragon of the West wrote:Also I'm assuming you had a brain fart to say "flipped and is scum"
It seems like a good enough reason to scumread you when i have better reasons to townread everyone else than I can think of for townreading you?

And it’s not that it was JYST T3, it’s that, if titanic/ydra pairing is indeed town then you were pushing the probably 3 most mislimmable townslots while avoiding taking a hard stance on the one scum one of the group you talked about

Plus you seem more interested in this back and forth or correcting small points (like my brain fart, which it admittedly was) than in trying to nail down where the final scum is or in solving the game, and that, even without literally anything else, feels like a good reason to think you’re skitt’s buddy and the final scum
Honestly I think you're just galaxy braining without knowing how skitt is gonna flip and assuming Titanic & Ydra are both town. If you really think I'm skitts partner and they flip red then you can lim me tomorrow but then I hope you get limmed after I flip green
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Post Post #953 (ISO) » Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:47 pm

Post by Dwlee99 »

Oh I thought Mena had a reason to ask your opinion on me specifically (like if we had played games together). But if so, it looks like it would have been before my long hiatus.
I prefer they, thanks :)
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Post Post #954 (ISO) » Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:11 pm

Post by petapan »

In post 950, Dragon of the West wrote:I don't feel good about your or Peta's slot (recently how Peta is saying he might not use his night action for fear of messing up other interactions bothered me)
dude do you not understand what my role is

it does literally nothing by itself
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Post Post #955 (ISO) » Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:11 pm

Post by petapan »

how are you suspicious of that many people if you think skitter is probably scum
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Post Post #956 (ISO) » Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:17 pm

Post by petapan »

actually lol it just clicked for me, by skitter's own claim there's 1 scum pr, i have no idea why it would be targeting her over literally anyone else

roleblocker, obviously not, mena and i had already claimed
rolecop would be...why? i guess if you want to narrow it down but she was likely to get run up at some point since she was in the PoE, makes far more sense to target someone who isn't likely to get voted
idk what else even makes sense, any sort of investigative would be stupid
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Post Post #957 (ISO) » Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:20 pm

Post by petapan »

In post 943, Menalque wrote:
In post 940, Dwlee99 wrote:He would be doing a thing that he is not at the present doing.
This is town right @peta @morning?
eh probably

i think the read makes sense from him here
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Post Post #958 (ISO) » Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:25 pm

Post by Morning Tweet »

In post 957, petapan wrote:
In post 943, Menalque wrote:
In post 940, Dwlee99 wrote:He would be doing a thing that he is not at the present doing.
This is town right @peta @morning?
eh probably

i think the read makes sense from him here
lol i have no idea personally, it was funny though

I'm getting a little tripped up right now -- Dragon's reads in feel very divorced from the game, im not sure what to make of it

Apparently he thinks Mena or peta are scummy due to their roles (?) but also finds skitts probably scum. It's so weird that he says if skitts flips red we should kill Mena .. i just like, what
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Post Post #959 (ISO) » Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:29 pm

Post by ta vera »

In post 859, Menalque wrote: ta vera — locktown but not with mechanical backing
a lot of people seem to be casually slotting me as town, but i haven't heard why much.
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Post Post #960 (ISO) » Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:49 pm

Post by ta vera »

In post 866, Dragon of the West wrote:
In post 859, Menalque wrote:ta vera — locktown but not with mechanical backing
I feel like I must be missing something with how everyone is treating this slot
this pings townie slightly. well, he does have reason to cast doubt on a generally townread player if he is scum and being put into the poe by many, but this feels like he genuinely doesn't see it. he's not even attacking me (at this point), he's just asking for an explanation.
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Post Post #961 (ISO) » Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:03 pm

Post by ta vera »

In post 889, Menalque wrote:Also I think skitt has finished her weekend VLA by now and would normally be around/posting but I think she would be strongly disinclined to post in a game where she’s already caught and is just waiting for lim/potentially a game she thinks is already lost
we should be careful about putting skitter at M-1 if we don't want the day to end yet.
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Post Post #962 (ISO) » Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:07 pm

Post by Morning Tweet »

Okay gonna look at Ydrasse for Mena and see what i think, im going to be assuming skitts is scum for this of course

Spoiler: Ydrasse (and Skitts as a side character)
In post 72, Ydrasse wrote:i’m going to open wolf this game
Ydrasse makes a declaration of openwolfing on page three -- and i dont care what anyone says, Ico was not under overwhelming pressure on page 3. The "is the dragon frozen" part hadn't even happened yet

Anyway basically all this means is that Ydrasse didn't suddenly begin memeing as a way to like, avoid having to take a stance on the Ico wagon when it was clear he'd die. It doesn't make Ydrasse town obviously but i think it disproves that one theory
In post 140, Ydrasse wrote:Intent
In post 141, Datisi wrote:i typed up a post, and then i... clicked to a new tab without submitting it because i'm an idiot.

UNVOTE:

i am still voting ico in spirit, but it's slightly too early.
In post 142, Dwlee99 wrote:VOTE: ICO
Gottem
Your intent means nothing
In post 143, Ydrasse wrote:hmm
This is that part where Dwlee really didnt have to vote Ico, but did anyway. It would have been fair to do what Dragon did (suspect Ico but not immediately vote or pass total judgement) -- but they place him back to X-1 anyway

And we see that Ydrasse decides to meme intent on (her partner) immediately upon his X-1.
In post 168, Datisi wrote:the "intent" was meant to scare us off, she doesn't seem to actually be... processing this game, i think her memeing around here is more akin to a partner panicking that their buddy is going down and they're not positioned to bus rather than a townie

like her play by itself pings me as Wrong and her position around ico is worse so idk lol
This is the post i was talking about -- I don't think this can be true, it was clear Ydrasse was memeing the game away before Ico was up.

Could it be a side effect of the memeing rather than the cause, though? Possibly.
In post 207, Ydrasse wrote:
In post 200, Titanic wrote:
In post 168, Datisi wrote:the "intent" was meant to scare us off, she doesn't seem to actually be... processing this game, i think her memeing around here is more akin to a partner panicking that their buddy is going down and they're not positioned to bus rather than a townie

like her play by itself pings me as Wrong and her position around ico is worse so idk lol
Bit of a reach tbh

Wouldn't that be bad if Ico had to actually claim and was her bud?

Btw I don't like Ico's scumreading agenda accusation to the RVS jokes either
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Ydrasse takes a break from openwolfing for 2 seconds to agree with Titanic that her intent doesnt make sense with a partner, interesting but dont know what to make of that yet

Obviously we all know Ydrasse lolhammers Ico and kills him without giving him any chance to claim or come back and say anything at all and we've gone over that.
In post 413, skitter30 wrote:i also think that ydra is being p darn scummy
Skitts enters D1 guns blazing on Mena as you probably remember, but also Ydrasse. Will this stance continue? Yes. Skitt's main targets are Mena and Ydrasse
In post 448, skitter30 wrote:mena is scummy, ydra is scummy. they probably are not scum together tho
artesia (sp?) i got bad vibes from too

i kinda liked you and got good vibes from ta vera and dwlee

i feel like i should have more reads but honestly reading it all after the fact that's all i've got rn
Although! She doesn't see them together and Mena is her primary target, uh ohhh that could be a scary distance move
In post 535, skitter30 wrote:Idk what to do with ydra
Skitts on D2 kinda continues being unsure on Ydrasse
In post 771, skitter30 wrote:
In post 750, Ydrasse wrote:awooooooo
I'm more than a little bit unhappy that yesterday ended the way it did, not only that it got cut short but also that it ended on t3, who i was p confident was town.

my vote is on ydra in spirit

Is it known who titanic is an alt of?

Also pooky targeted me n1, and i assume he was suspicious of me cuz he got a 'not vt' result - i'm an informed townie, and i think its fine to share this: i am informed that scum have one pr

Also mena i'm a little bit suspicious that you didnt die last night
In post 772, skitter30 wrote:Also i think that scum is significantly more likely to bus ydra than defend her, which takes me to mena once more
This is after Ydrasse lolhammers T3 and ppl are voting Ydrasse start of today. Skitts is fully bussing Ydrasse at this point but also doesn't let up on Mena as a secondary.
In post 807, skitter30 wrote:
In post 778, Titanic wrote:
In post 772, skitter30 wrote:Also i think that scum is significantly more likely to bus ydra than defend her, which takes me to mena once more
Just a feeling that you know Ydrasse will flip town and that this statement won't matter after this day

Pooky dying after targeting you also makes you the obvious culprit, knowing about his loudness
Uh, no, i think she's going to flip scum, and i'm not sure how you think she can still be town
In post 809, skitter30 wrote:
In post 785, Ydrasse wrote:people like to throw around the word openwolfing but “hammering people when they’re at e-1 and then jokingly calling myself a werewolf all game” is a very generous interpretation especially given the fact i hammered someone who, lbr if i was scum i would keep around for longer
Ydra you cant expect to be like 'lol i would not be playing like this as scum' when you're playing in a very proscum manner - if you're 'openwolfing' and scum and t3 is at e1 why would you *not* just take the hammer if you think you can just chalk it up to being a trolly openolf
Skitts is in entirely "shove Ydrasse into the ground" mode today of course
In post 812, skitter30 wrote:
In post 802, Ydrasse wrote:the issue is just that skitter is saying "yeah probably just got a pr result dont worry about what he was thinking though" when pooky is also dead

shrug
I mean what am i supposed to say in tjis situation? Not claim?
In post 815, skitter30 wrote:
In post 797, Ydrasse wrote:pooky's check wasn't "not vt" btw since i got the message that he checked me
What are you claiming
Of course, Ydrasse is doing the same to her
In post 817, Ydrasse wrote:"ydra would openwolf" yes, sure, i have been blatant to the point of absurdity

"ydra as scum hammers her partner and then does nothing but troll knowing that she will inevitably be elimmed because she is a liability for how she is playing and does nothing to advance the scum wincon except like, another lolhammer that is going to definitely get her killed" is a very dumb take

and if you wanna say "oh but as openwolf this wifom is what youre banking on" like okay then that's the shallowest level of thinking and i think everyone in this plist knows that is not going to win a game at this state at all with one partner dead, unless my partner is somehow setup as the towniest person ever

like, no offence meant, but i know i am more than capable of being townread if i want to be even if i have a rough start were i scum. im not just going to go "hehe (:" and then that's it, especially after /hammering scum on d1 so that this game would not have 100 pgs to sift through on d2 when ico was just that obvious/
To analyze this now, well, I would need more context of just how hard Ydrasse has openwolfed in the past. I've seen her meme and play very unseriously as scum (FL v. Hectic), but that was nothing close the magnitude she's at this game (it also was neutral at worst for scum in that game, she wasnt throwing)

I can say that I am personally somewhat swayed by the argument that Ydrasse wouldn't resort to going "hehe :)" as scum if she were in a bad spot. But i wont disregard she's absolutely capable of doing so -- I'm just not convinced she *would*. Maybe Mena has seen a game I haven't, though

So to summarize, we've got two possibilities..

Ydrasse is either a Vanilla Townie OR a (probably) Mafia Goon who:

- Declares she is openwolfing at the beginning of the game before anything has happened, including Ico's downfall
- Kills off Ico in cold blood (obviously)
- Proceeds to meme play claiming wolf, save for a few moments where she'll be like "a hero" to Titanic pointing out how Ydrasse doesn't do that as scum
- It is also important to note what she doesn't do: she at no point tries to appear like she is playing or redeem herself
- Lolhammers for the second time, this time on a townie, a move that almost certainly kills her if the deceased is town (Which she would know as scum but not as town)
- And of course she and skitts would be mutually bussing today (and Skitts was positioned to do so since D2, although granted Skitts' scumread on Ydrasse was much shakier than the one on Mena)

It still feels much easier to buy if Ydrasse views herself as an expendable VT who thinks there's a decent chance the players she hammers could be scum. At best, free scum easy win, at worst, she's already gotten one scum anyway.

However -- to address some of Mena's posts directly..
In post 879, Menalque wrote:like i think if you just wanted to meme all game as town then you’d just... meme all game as town

For scum!you it’s significantly more important to try and buy and extra day if possible by trying to look town, which is exactly what you’ve started trying to do today

If you’re town and you care about this game why haven’t you played properly up until now? Whereas i can totally see scum!ydra hiding behind “awoo I’m an openwolf” to not have to contribute (due to illness/burnout) and then feeling obligated to turn it up once the heat comes on
If Ydrasse felt obligated to turn it up, I don't think she'd hammer T3. What is the point of doing that, do you think? You know, she
directly
caused the heat being turned up by doing that, no? That's not a consistent thought process, why would you incriminate yourself then start defending?

You know what thought process this is consistent with? It's a vanilla townie who already lolhammered one scum and wants to "fuck it" on another possible scum where, worst case scenario, she's already killed a scum anyay, and best case she is basically singlehandedly winning the game. Which also is fair with illness/burnout

Also -- Ydrasse started bussing skitts before skitts was confirm town.. so which one of them is trying to make it to late game, really, at this point. I guess you could call it for cred, but sheesh it's just a bad scenario
In post 875, Menalque wrote:And I think there’s a fairly obvious path to a win there for you which is that you soak up the heat by doing scummy shit that advances your wincon (like quickhammering town and cutting off the day super early again) knowing that at a minimum it nets 3 dead town in exchange for you dying, plus gives your buddy a chance to bus for cred. So no, “I wouldn’t do this because it wouldn’t be playing to wincon” is not a convincing argument
I really think lolhammering a mafia goon buddy followed by a scummy townie who doesnt have a PR is a generally really terrible play to advance scum wincon. You're sacrificing yourself for just about nothing. If you're referring to just the last elim... I still feel like it's way better play to just.... play the game?

Unless Ydrasse expects to be able to WIFOM us out and survive, which I heavily doubt
In post 906, petapan wrote:ehh a look back at skitt's iso and i wouldn't really call it clearing of ydrasse, bleh idk anymore
I can, however, agree with this. Skitts interactions with Ydrasse are not terribly important to me, because she implied one of Mena/Ydrasse being scum could clear the other, and she obviously preferred Mena. Skitts does turn on Ydrasse harder later, but that was when Ydrasse was under pressure today
In post 804, Menalque wrote:We can use today to discuss more, test out possible solves, work on theories etc but I want it to be very clearly understood that there are exactly 0 worlds in which ydra is not the lim today

Especially given that she’s lying/misrepresenting herself on “oh I would never play like this”

If ydra flips scum we flip Tiitanic too as a precaution unless it’s like, really obvious skitter or DotW or MT is also scum or something
Oh, I have a question for you now!

When you say she's misrepresenting herself saying she would never play like this, what leads you to believe this is a lie? Like where have you seen behaviour which suggests Ydrasse would

And by the way, I do think Ydrasse is 100% capable of this play, of course she is -- and it is a thing that could have happened. I'm just finding it less consistently making sense from scum her.
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Post Post #963 (ISO) » Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:20 pm

Post by ta vera »

In post 916, Menalque wrote:
In post 574, Dwlee99 wrote:
In post 458, skitter30 wrote:
In post 453, Dwlee99 wrote:Skitter why do you town read me.
i liked your tone when you were joking around claims in rvs + your ico vote was good
This is weird though because I feel like I was townier last time we played and hard pushed a scum elimination through and you still scumread me.
Need more opinions, is this post clearing or is this easily fakeable theatre?
not clearing
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Post Post #964 (ISO) » Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:25 pm

Post by ta vera »

In post 931, Menalque wrote:Protip: the 3p would be you, titanic, ta vera there

Who would be scum of the three of you if game isn’t over?
oh fun. i would lean towards dwlee, but i would do my due diligence of course.
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Post Post #965 (ISO) » Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:26 pm

Post by petapan »

In post 959, ta vera wrote:
In post 859, Menalque wrote: ta vera — locktown but not with mechanical backing
a lot of people seem to be casually slotting me as town, but i haven't heard why much.
mainly just felt like you went along with the ico vote quickly on day 1 but also feel like you have no incentive here to immediately call out skitter's claim as her teammate
In post 960, ta vera wrote:
In post 866, Dragon of the West wrote:
In post 859, Menalque wrote:ta vera — locktown but not with mechanical backing
I feel like I must be missing something with how everyone is treating this slot
this pings townie slightly. well, he does have reason to cast doubt on a generally townread player if he is scum and being put into the poe by many, but this feels like he genuinely doesn't see it. he's not even attacking me (at this point), he's just asking for an explanation.
eh i feel like that type of statement is not particularly hard to make
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Post Post #966 (ISO) » Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:37 pm

Post by ta vera »

In post 965, petapan wrote:
In post 960, ta vera wrote:
In post 866, Dragon of the West wrote:
In post 859, Menalque wrote:ta vera — locktown but not with mechanical backing
I feel like I must be missing something with how everyone is treating this slot
this pings townie slightly. well, he does have reason to cast doubt on a generally townread player if he is scum and being put into the poe by many, but this feels like he genuinely doesn't see it. he's not even attacking me (at this point), he's just asking for an explanation.
eh i feel like that type of statement is not particularly hard to make
true. it's not much of a town ping.
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Post Post #967 (ISO) » Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:44 pm

Post by Dwlee99 »

In post 963, ta vera wrote:
In post 916, Menalque wrote:
In post 574, Dwlee99 wrote:
In post 458, skitter30 wrote:
In post 453, Dwlee99 wrote:Skitter why do you town read me.
i liked your tone when you were joking around claims in rvs + your ico vote was good
This is weird though because I feel like I was townier last time we played and hard pushed a scum elimination through and you still scumread me.
Need more opinions, is this post clearing or is this easily fakeable theatre?
not clearing
Bad bad bad bad
I prefer they, thanks :)
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Post Post #968 (ISO) » Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:48 pm

Post by ta vera »

i don't think that clears you. in fact, i have questioned skitter's townread on me when i've been scum with her before.
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Post Post #969 (ISO) » Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:51 pm

Post by Dwlee99 »

I don't think it does either but I don't like something about the way you said it.
I prefer they, thanks :)
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Post Post #970 (ISO) » Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:53 pm

Post by ta vera »

what's wrong with the way i said it. an open question was asked, and i gave my answer.
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Post Post #971 (ISO) » Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:54 pm

Post by Dwlee99 »

The vibes are what the vibes are.
I prefer they, thanks :)
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Post Post #972 (ISO) » Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:59 pm

Post by ta vera »

i gave a very simple answer. there's not much there. is that the problem? i don't see how you could get much vibes from that post at all.
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Post Post #973 (ISO) » Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:15 pm

Post by Dragon of the West »

In post 954, petapan wrote:
In post 950, Dragon of the West wrote:I don't feel good about your or Peta's slot (recently how Peta is saying he might not use his night action for fear of messing up other interactions bothered me)
dude do you not understand what my role is

it does literally nothing by itself
So I forgot you full claimed and just thought you had soft claimed visitor of some type...are you saying you're thinking of not using it because that would require coordinating and you're worried about the actions being rolestopped/blocked or because you're roaming and you want to save it for targets later on
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Post Post #974 (ISO) » Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:19 pm

Post by Dragon of the West »

In post 955, petapan wrote:how are you suspicious of that many people if you think skitter is probably scum
I was just listing all the slots that I remembered pinging me. And Dwlee and Ydra were pretty null reads in general. Like I said, I got really lost in all the claims. Did someone have an inno on titanic?
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