Mini Normal 2246 - Game Over

[Iconeum]

i'm like

fairly sure all of wiki/wb/datisi are town but that's all i've got here

I don't know if I agree about Datisi yet, but yes Wiki and Dwlee seem town to me. Andres as well, and maybe Gamma. I feel decent enough about you as well.

I was just reading through Andres ISO and there are more posts that point toward town!andres then I thought. He's got a few particularly sharp ones, that I know town!him is capable of.
If all of andres/datisi/dwlee are town then i've got some high hopes here

[Iconeum]

WIM? Help a dragon out please?

[Three]

Do you town read/lean her then?

if i have to bin salsa somewhere, it's townlean. I think she's trying to form some kind of townblock/wagon on their scumreads even if it's a hard road. Like she's doing with GE.

I don't see it myself, but alright, it's a read.

[Iconeum]

My problem with GE is that I feel he shoulda been more critical when sheeping Wiki's vote on me

[Three]

WIM? Help a dragon out please?

Wants It More

Basically how hard are they trying to win vs someone else.

[Three]

My problem with GE is that I feel he shoulda been more critical when sheeping Wiki's vote on me

I need to ISO dive him since I sorted him aside early on. Do you think he's being opportunistic? Is he solving?

[Three]

I don't see why town would beg for more people to town tell on page 8, but maybe that's just me.

why would scum do it either lol
as for why I said that, I'm trying to use my new just-about-norm strat of townblocking slots early, forming a PoE based on those TRs, and crushing the scumteam beneath my bootheels. The faster I can get at least 50% of players into my townblock, the faster I can start applying pressure to a PoE solve. I'll be honest that I

do not

expect my townblock to be solid initially, 4 scum means there's more chances for someone to take the Cabd Clause ticket, but I also think that also means there's more chances for scum to underperform

Realized this strat never seemed to happen.

@Gamma:

Are you still working on making this happen?

[Iconeum]

My problem with GE is that I feel he shoulda been more critical when sheeping Wiki's vote on me

I need to ISO dive him since I sorted him aside early on. Do you think he's being opportunistic? Is he solving?

Felt like he was enabling Wiki more then anything. I'd expected GE to call Wiki out on bad logic/case but sheep voting the case? That pinged me yeah

[Dorsey]

1423 - geraintm says he's not sorting anyone and it's "fair". I thought the perceived lack of sorting was why I was being voted. I feel this would be far more effective in person.

[Selynee]

@Three

I think Andre is town here. They come off as common sense stuff and like genuinely trying to solve stuff when they could just vote someone (like Dorsley) and be done with it. Like 869, 1213 and 1215. Like, that's no way someone would directly blame them for Dorsley getting miselim here (cuz the consensus is that he is playing badly if they are not mafia) and while wk might be a thing- I feel that would be easier to just let an easy miselim go on than trying to wk someone who barely posted.
Same for Faria. Like, they were scumreading her, made a case in 825 so post like 828 comes us genuinely trying to solve the game.

Datisi- I sort of like for the most part. Like I said, I didn't really like that vote on gera cuz it felt a bit...too easy, I guess. Like yes, his answer that they are parking the vote there after a pretty obvious fake claim was weird but didn't seem to consider what would be the motivation for maf!gera there to say that in that context. The whole conflict with Wiki doesn't seem very productive cuz I think Wiki is town...but that seem more frustration-related than anything else.

Almost is...meh. Actually, I think the most pro-town thing was trying to get reactions on his wagon but he didn't follow up.

I am still not sure about Dwelee. Not sure why maf them would want Faria to be elim so much today when she is already in a pretty bad position (aka might be elim without them getting the spotlight if she is town). Not a fan of the fact that never built a case here

Gamma- see 636. I like 815...the only thing I don't agree with is that he is proposing basically 1234. Don't agree with, doesn't mean I think it is a lot of maf motivation there.

Gera and Dorsley are somewhere between...why would mafia do this and well, they could easily be mafia going for "well, they'll think why would mafia do this"


And it's time for my daily walk outside (hoping I don't catch the virus) so I'll give my thoughts on the rest later today.

[Dwlee99]

So Ico wrote a lot of words but wiki is very obviously not Cyrus imo so I'm surprised y'all thought so

[ChaosOmega]

Votecount 1.08

Dorsey (4) - Dwlee99, Salsabil Faria, Datisi, Iconeum
geraintm (3) - Almost50, Gamma Emerald, Wiki
Salsabil Faria (2) - Three, T3
Gamma Emerald (1) - Andresvmb
Almost50 (1) - Dorsey
Three (1) - Selynee
Dwlee99 (1) - geraintm

Not Voting (0) -

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate someone.

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-10-31 06:52:46)

[ChaosOmega]

Gamma Emerald has requested replacement, searching for a replacement.

[ChaosOmega]

Looker replaces Gamma Emerald.

[Andresvmb]

@Looker I think you need to quickly tell us what your early reactions are to the game once you have the time to skim.

[Andresvmb]

Interesting thought, though Dorsey didn't vote on any leading wagon till now. And they weren't lurking in the sense they tried to pass unobserved. Like, the vote on Icon and saying they are sheeping Wiki.
So, like voting here on a leading wagon would be even weirder.

Though I still think it’s a bit harder to come into the game and vote for a leading Town voice over say the second largest wagon or a player being more consistently SR as Scum, I do think the alternative viewpoint holds some merit. I’m just speculating based on what my experience has been, but objectively there isn’t a lot that would give away Dorsey’s alignment. Say the Scum Team has determined already that letting me be and then NK’ing me at some point in the game is what makes sense. Then having one of their members vote me is a real easy way to test whether there’s anybody in the Town that agrees (which could provide an opening), and if there isn’t, then they get to sit on a player that isn’t going to get executed soon.

Here’s what I’m looking for, and why I expressed the view that I did of Dorsey. In a game with 4 Scum, I would be urging my team to actually consolidate onto a Town and really avoid bussing this early. There’s no need, the Town are uncoordinated early, and this game has {geraintm, Dorsey, Salsa}. geraintm, as can be already seen, doesn’t actively solve D1. Dorsey isn’t really trying to make themselves heard and seems lost. And Salsa can quite obviously antagonize others, and has a history of self-voting. Assume for a minute 2 of those names are Town. With A50 also trying their best not to actively participate (even though they very much can), and Wiki polluting the thread with repetitive arguments, I would argue the gamestate is giving Scum a massive incentive to coordinate a mis-execution and try and convince the Town players that can more easily be manipulated of their righteous push.

And look at who happen to be the two leading wagons right now. If I had to guess, they’re both Town.

[geraintm]

Ok 1 day, i will be VERY busy on monday, the whole monday

Gera, explain your "825 times wrong" if you still think like that about that post

If I recall correctly, that post said I was scum or a traitor or something, and I was hyperbolically trying to suggest that was wrong

Hmmmm
So why it was wrong 825 times, not only 1 time?
I think that u was talking not only about a mistake in your color. Am I wrong?

i have no idea what you mean

[Dwlee99]

And look at who happen to be the two leading wagons right now. If I had to guess, they’re both Town.

Okay so who is evil

[Looker]

Wait, did you just hard claim Day Cop? What the hell is happening.

mafia

I was clearly hinting at the stupidity of the action but sure, mafia.

Andres nullreads T3 with sarcasm.

Scums: Gamma, Dwlee, Datisi, Dorsey. I will play this.

Wiki scumreads Dorsey

Why not? I mean, feel free to share.

I… just don’t have any more thoughts. The part where you talk about Andrea seemed designed to make it seem like you’re making discussion while pocketing Andres.

T3 townreads Andres

I sheep Wiki. You talk too much to be scum.
VOTE: Iconeum

Dorsey townreads Wiki

I dont know what gamma sees good in Salsa.
I dont care.
Scums: Ico, Dwlee, Datisi, Salsa.
Go fast hammer smb and fast night.

Wiki does not scumread Gamma Emerald (Looker)

VOTE: Icon

might not want to do that

T3 townreads Iconeum

Meta saying

gera

is playing their town meta but don't know their scum meta, so null.

Three

is also null for me.

Wiki

doesn’t exist for me.

Dorsey

needs more pressure and I'm town

Salsa nullreads Three. Salsa nullreads geraintm.

@Wiki we have a philosophical disagreement around what you’re perceiving on Ico but I definitely TR the fact that you’re paying attention to this in this way. I just think you need to be less repetitive and frankly, obnoxious.

I have a feeling Scum care about building a worldview that makes sense. I would argue Scum are less likely to express a TR of a slot and then turn around and vote that slot based on vibes they had or little explanation. It sticks out, so people like you will point it out and argue it’s Scummy. But it’s early in the game. Reads aren’t fully formed. It happens that people change their minds quickly in the early part of the game. I would argue your argument doesn’t seem correct in my mind.

Also, I’m not going to get into a massive back and forth over this. That’s my opinion as to why you might be wrong on Ico. But I feel much more uncertain about Ico’s alignment.

Andres nullreads Iconeum

i don't know how to read salsa or Three or T3

Ico doesn't read T3

I was just reading through Andres ISO and there are more posts that point toward town!andres then I thought. He's got a few particularly sharp ones, that I know town!him is capable of.
If all of andres/datisi/dwlee are town then i've got some high hopes here

Ico townreads Andres
Three does not townread Salsabil Faria

---

What are geraintm's reads?

---

Do you town read/lean her then?

if i have to bin salsa somewhere, it's townlean. I think she's trying to form some kind of townblock/wagon on their scumreads even if it's a hard road. Like she's doing with GE.

I don't see it myself, but alright, it's a read.

Three does not townread Salsabil Faria

---

What is Three's read on Geraintm?
What is Dorsey's read on Gamma Emerald/Looker?

---

[Looker]

Making notes for my personal benefit.

[Andresvmb]

Which is why Dorsey’s vote doesn’t strike me as Scummy. They’ve since moved it to A50 and they’re sitting there by themselves. I have a feeling Scum are more likely here to want to get a wagon going with a few members and get a bit vocal about it.

I have Selynee as Town, and Salsa as Town btw. I think Three is trying to solve, and they did come across to me as overly stubborn (which reminds me of myself funny enough).

I think the GE slot, one of {Datisi/DW}, T3, and Iconeum have some (most?) of the Scum. It’s an early perception, I don’t claim to be any good, and I could absolutely have the game upside down. It’s happened before, could happen again. If Ico/Datisi are both Scum, it could explain that early (and frankly, somewhat awkward) sorting, and the mutual TRs occurring (Datisi has posted enough that I’m going to have to re-read the ISO, but I can’t really say I’m convinced there’s a strong case to be made there about them being Scum, and I have TR Ico and I haven’t totally shaken those early vibes, but the latest posting isn’t convincing to me).

DW seems to me to be pushing too hard to me. That’s another ISO I am going to have to re-read, but it’s not solvey enough and almost overly confrontational from what I can recall.

And I don’t know what the hell to do about Wiki. I think they’re Town. I don’t think they’ll shut up. I think they’re not easily manipulated though. And they’re repeatedly hinting at some sort of role (it’s way too obvious not to mention it), which might make it so that they’re sorted anyway. I wouldn’t touch it.

[Wiki]

Looker, why he replaced?

[Andresvmb]

Salsa is just scummy my guy

I really just want salsa flipped and next day phase

Cause you're scum

Do you think I am? Because last I checked your story was that you were townreading me

Yea the thing is gera is playing differently this game than there so your "meta" is just a bad attempt at diffusing pressure on him

What are you seeing there dats

Fmpov gera has made some surface level posts and don't nothing townie since his extremely scummy entrance

And yes, meta bad, but I don't even think you can claim this would be meta town for him

Salsa I'm very confident you're gonna flip red but I know you have to pretend you won't and that is sad

Can we vote gera

What’s is the case on

gera

?

That he has a red role pm

Can we vote gera

I was, but apparently someone thinks I'm a better lim, so I'm just being a team player.

You can also vote salsa

Can we vote gera

Okay gamma is locktown now

Where?
As town, you can't be so sure on anyone but you're that sure on me on D1 already?? Why not voting me then and convince people to eliminate me if you're

that

sure?

Cause I'm voting gera, a different scum

These are not in order but you get the point. I started to think DW’s early aggression was Towny. I am reading these posts and thinking that they’re expressing too much certainty. And the post where they concede that Salsa could be Town? Fascinating after some of the other stuff that’s been said.

[Looker]

Here’s what I’m looking for, and why I expressed the view that I did of Dorsey. In a game with 4 Scum, I would be urging my team to actually consolidate onto a Town and really avoid bussing this early. There’s no need, the Town are uncoordinated early, and this game has {geraintm, Dorsey, Salsa}. geraintm, as can be already seen, doesn’t actively solve D1. Dorsey isn’t really trying to make themselves heard and seems lost. And Salsa can quite obviously antagonize others, and has a history of self-voting. Assume for a minute 2 of those names are Town. With A50 also trying their best not to actively participate (even though they very much can), and Wiki polluting the thread with repetitive arguments, I would argue the gamestate is giving Scum a massive incentive to coordinate a mis-execution and try and convince the Town players that can more easily be manipulated of their righteous push.

And look at who happen to be the two leading wagons right now. If I had to guess, they’re both Town.

No offense to them (geraintm, Dorsey), but it's really easy to see weaker players being pushed around, especially when you look at the Activity Overview. Seeing how content the wagon is is kind of glaring.

Looker, why he replaced?

Gamma and I aren't friends - I have no idea what they think.

[Andresvmb]

Looker, why he replaced?

You can’t actually try and hint at the motivation behind a replacement. Just so that you avoid a warning.