Mini Normal 2246 - Game Over


Three
Three
Goon
Three
Goon
Goon
Posts: 625
Joined: September 22, 2021

Post Post #1650 (ISO) » Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:36 am

Post by Three »

In post 1459, Selynee wrote:@Three

I think Andre is town here. They come off as common sense stuff and like genuinely trying to solve stuff when they could just vote someone (like Dorsley) and be done with it. Like , and . Like, that's no way someone would directly blame them for Dorsley getting miselim here (cuz the consensus is that he is playing badly if they are not mafia) and while wk might be a thing- I feel that would be easier to just let an easy miselim go on than trying to wk someone who barely posted.
Same for Faria. Like, they were scumreading her, made a case in so post like comes us genuinely trying to solve the game.

Datisi- I sort of like for the most part. Like I said, I didn't really like that vote on gera cuz it felt a bit...too easy, I guess. Like yes, his answer that they are parking the vote there after a pretty obvious fake claim was weird but didn't seem to consider what would be the motivation for maf!gera there to say that in that context. The whole conflict with Wiki doesn't seem very productive cuz I think Wiki is town...but that seem more frustration-related than anything else.

Almost is...meh. Actually, I think the most pro-town thing was trying to get reactions on his wagon but he didn't follow up.

I am still not sure about Dwelee. Not sure why maf them would want Faria to be elim so much today when she is already in a pretty bad position (aka might be elim without them getting the spotlight if she is town). Not a fan of the fact that never built a case here

Gamma- see . I like ...the only thing I don't agree with is that he is proposing basically . Don't agree with, doesn't mean I think it is a lot of maf motivation there.

Gera and Dorsley are somewhere between...why would mafia do this and well, they could easily be mafia going for "well, they'll think why would mafia do this"


And it's time for my daily walk outside (hoping I don't catch the virus) so I'll give my thoughts on the rest later today.
In post 1543, Selynee wrote:K, I wasn't killed by a serial killer in the park (just my luck) so...

Faria- Actually don't find much mafia motivation with her entry. Faking believing the claim would have been something if she could get an easy miselim (like if any of them were at E-1 or something) but none were in danger of being elim. Plus stuff like calling for a policy elim doesn't seem like coming from someone who wants to be seen as town cuz from my limited experience, this usually isn't popular.

T3- Not a fan of their progression. Not helped by the fact that he doesn't really provides much info but like says Three's read is made in bad faith but votes me in . - honestly, don't get why they are only suspecting me of pocketing when the same argument can be used that you were pocketing Datisi or Wiki by agreeing with them. Also, not a fan of the progression on salsa-- meta stuff, - honestly don't see what's so bad in that reaction. - asks about scum motivations here but doesn't insist on this. - agrees with Andre's case. And that's basically all. No longer question Salsa read. Seems a superficial read there.

Ico- Did I say I don't like early reads? Cuz they lack consistency- like, if you say you townread someone on page 5 and scumread them on page 25, you can easily say "Well, the first one was just early vibes, now I no longer feel the same vibes" and this can easily come from both mafia or town.
Like, I actually like and . Feels like a genuine attempt to make sense of Wiki's fake claim. And their early points on Almost. Plus from all the reasons they could give for voting me there, don't think mafia would come with
Alright, I actually really like these reads, and hunting down specific posts to support your reads is +town.

Spoiler: Reads List
TOWN


Andres- I've already made my thoughts on him clear. Very rational and logical, genuine attempts at solving, and not afraid to be combative. Overall a very strong town read.

Dwlee- I think they just town told early on by being lively and ready to play. I misread them in 2242 but tbh I really did think they were TSTBS there, here they're not actually afraid to have reads and solve alignments.

TOWN LEAN


A50- Not really doing much but I vibed hard with . I considered town locking him but that just seems foolish this early on into the game. Feels very different from 2242 where he was town but he could just be bored.

Ico- Early game felt weak but I wanted to let him simmer and see what he'd do over time. I like his more recent pushes, I just think he's wasting his time with Wiki.

Wiki- Probably town, I briefly considered him to be a potential Traitor just making a bunch of noise to provide cover for the scum team while guaranteeing he'd never get NK'd...but then he claimed PR for no reason. I just want him to chill if he's actually town, because he's going to get himself mislimmed if he keeps making a scene every god damn day.

NULL


Geraintm- Kinda hate that he's essentially refusing to play the game but that's apparently meta for him. It just means he can get away with it when he does roll scum though. If he doesn't start doing things Day 2 he needs to be auto-yeeted.

Sel- The reads list was genuinely townie, I'm re-evaluating your slot now and wondering if my earlier scum read on you was just wrong. I need more time to figure you out but I don't think you should ever be today's elim.

T3- Honestly, idk. I feel like I had a pretty good read on him in 2242 but lost him at the last second by trying to outguess the mod. He did scum slip hard though, so I guess he should just be sortable over time.

SCUM LEAN


Datisi- He made a lot of bad faith arguments with me and was more preoccupied with winning the argument rather than actually trying to solve my alignment. His interactions with Looker were also highly suspect, he seemed frazzled over some slight grilling and I just got bad vibes from it.

Gamma/Looker- Just as I was about to start re-evaluating Gamma, he replaced out, so that sucks. Looker's entrance is
fine
, but again, the interactions with Datisi gave me bad vibes. I strongly believe there's at least one scum between the two of them.

Dorsey- Basically just Gera but scummier. His reactions to pressure really make me want to scum lock him, it's that bad.

SCUM


Salsa- I've made my case for Salsa for awhile now, and I don't understand the hesitance to put real pressure here or why some people are even town reading her. There's nothing more to say that I haven't already said.


Are the bottom four of my list my hero solve? Eh, probably not, it's still too early to lock my reads in. I don't think a Salsa lim/pressure wagon is happening right now though, so my vote's between Dorsey and T3 as the leading wagons. Dorsey makes more sense with my reads, but Datisi is also voting him and it gives me pause. My top town reads are also on opposing wagons, so it's hard to read the better choice here based off of who's currently voting. So I guess for now I'll just go off of my own read.

VOTE: Dorsey
User avatar
Almost50
Almost50
Monkey Business
User avatar
User avatar
Almost50
Monkey Business
Monkey Business
Posts: 27276
Joined: November 13, 2015
Location: Right here.

Post Post #1651 (ISO) » Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:59 am

Post by Almost50 »

Announcement: I literally stopped reading anything in this game. I intend to reread the whole day at night in light of today's flip. If Scum want to really frustrate me they should be shooting me tonight. I will probably blacklist the whole Scum team if it happens though. :lol:

Modded 2 Opens & 2 Large Themed games successfully.
User avatar
Andresvmb
Andresvmb
He/Him
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Andresvmb
He/Him
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 8778
Joined: July 26, 2020
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: NY, USA

Post Post #1652 (ISO) » Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:07 am

Post by Andresvmb »

@Datisi I am just going to have to ISO Salsa at some point soon (again) and make up my mind as to whether Three’s push there holds merit or not. I am perceiving Three to be a competent player so I don’t want to dismiss their concerns with the slot, and my read has fluctuated wildly.

For the record, I am having a harder and harder time defending Dorsey here. Dorsey has definitely avoided giving any meaningful takes. Their vote on me did not seem well thought out at all (if you wanted to make a case against me, it’s not like I don’t have a decent amount of content), and A50 is intentionally playing to remain difficult to read, so the vote there isn’t based on much. And yeah, I am not seeing an interest in really solving the game. Since there’s a wagon building against them, and there’s a fair amount of high content slots that are piling on there (a lot of which I TR), I will certainly hammer it if it comes to it.
User avatar
Andresvmb
Andresvmb
He/Him
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Andresvmb
He/Him
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 8778
Joined: July 26, 2020
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: NY, USA

Post Post #1653 (ISO) » Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:09 am

Post by Andresvmb »

In post 1324, Dorsey wrote:Also, some of y'all are just rude, so you're no fun to play with, question, or read, but I mean, lol, that's life.
This, however, does not strike me as a thought that Scum would have here. Does that make sense? It’s not really a comment on any particular player, but it does tell me that Dorsey cares about how players treat each other in a way that most Scum never even think about (aggression between Town is usually conducive to a Scum victory after all).
User avatar
Wiki
Wiki
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Wiki
Goon
Goon
Posts: 751
Joined: October 17, 2021

Post Post #1654 (ISO) » Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:12 am

Post by Wiki »

To Dorsey
In post 1652, Andresvmb wrote:I will certainly hammer it if it comes to it
User avatar
Wiki
Wiki
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Wiki
Goon
Goon
Posts: 751
Joined: October 17, 2021

Post Post #1655 (ISO) » Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:18 am

Post by Wiki »

In post 1652, Andresvmb wrote:For the record, I am having a harder and harder time defending Dorsey here. .... ............. I will certainly hammer it if it comes to it.
Funny
User avatar
Andresvmb
Andresvmb
He/Him
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Andresvmb
He/Him
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 8778
Joined: July 26, 2020
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: NY, USA

Post Post #1656 (ISO) » Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:20 am

Post by Andresvmb »

In post 1320, Dorsey wrote:Having more votecounts would make it easier to follow the bandwagoners. I feel there are several wagons that build up rapidly out of nowhere.

Edit: I voted andres because I could. There's nothing saying he's town and nobody knows anything about the other players so I don't see the issue with voting and gauging reactions.
I’m a bit torn about this post. There’s a fundamental point Dorsey is making here that is valid - what if you are all wrong about well, me? Given a lack of information on D1, nothing really guarantees that the reads you have are correct. The problem, in my mind, isn’t so much that point. It’s the fact that you have to go with what you have at the end of the day. And I’m Town. Multiple players are reading me correctly, and they’re not all Scum. Yet you @Dorsey don’t really seem to question them on their read, or seem to want to draw any conclusions from that. It’s just - you all could be wrong, and I can vote wherever I want. Yes, you can. And when you did, did you learn anything?

The issue with Dorsey that a lot of you seem to be expressing is that (i) Dorsey is making *some* points, but they’re not really leading anywhere, and generally speaking, Dorsey is not responding to questions or explaining themselves. Which makes them hard to scrutinize (+Scum in my book too). So, @Dorsey, if you don’t want to get executed (and you’re starting to feel to me like a compromise execution), then perhaps you need to stop playing the victim and provide some answers.
User avatar
Andresvmb
Andresvmb
He/Him
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Andresvmb
He/Him
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 8778
Joined: July 26, 2020
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: NY, USA

Post Post #1657 (ISO) » Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:21 am

Post by Andresvmb »

In post 1655, Wiki wrote:
In post 1652, Andresvmb wrote:For the record, I am having a harder and harder time defending Dorsey here. .... ............. I will certainly hammer it if it comes to it.
Funny
Dude, I’m Town and your read of my slot is fucking dreadful. I’m ignoring you for now but I am slowly losing my patience with your slot.
User avatar
Wiki
Wiki
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Wiki
Goon
Goon
Posts: 751
Joined: October 17, 2021

Post Post #1658 (ISO) » Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:23 am

Post by Wiki »

Check Gamma/Datisi/Andre
User avatar
geraintm
geraintm
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
geraintm
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5713
Joined: March 9, 2006
Location: Wales

Post Post #1659 (ISO) » Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:31 am

Post by geraintm »

In post 1658, Wiki wrote:Check Gamma/Datisi/Andre
not me? or have you solved me already?
User avatar
Wiki
Wiki
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Wiki
Goon
Goon
Posts: 751
Joined: October 17, 2021

Post Post #1660 (ISO) » Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:43 am

Post by Wiki »

In post 1659, geraintm wrote:not me? or have you solved me already?
No need to check those who can be elimed if there are no hard claims.
Making a check, a cop should think about best options. If the check is green, it should be a good player to leave him to rule the town, especially if the cop dies fast. Also it is useful to check someone green to trust his trs and srs with no paranoia about him. But if a good player is a scum, it is very useful, because these players can win, if they are unchecked. It is more clever to find a weak mafia without a check, than to find out that a person who was scumread by everyone is really red, this is not useful at all.
Check in looker/datisi/andre without claiming on d2 makes them immune to elimination before claimings, because anybody of them in this situation could be checked green and cop doesnt want to claim with 1 green colour in his hands.
User avatar
Dorsey
Dorsey
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Dorsey
Goon
Goon
Posts: 404
Joined: August 12, 2021

Post Post #1661 (ISO) » Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:58 am

Post by Dorsey »

I'm fine with dying, it's really not that serious. Clearly I struck a chord with scum since I'm being wagoned over geraintm and Almost50, so do what you will with that. This random "provide answers" bit is cheap, inconsistent and hypocritical - answers to what?
User avatar
Dorsey
Dorsey
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Dorsey
Goon
Goon
Posts: 404
Joined: August 12, 2021

Post Post #1662 (ISO) » Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:58 am

Post by Dorsey »

Second time in a row, maybe this player base just isn't for me.
User avatar
Wiki
Wiki
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Wiki
Goon
Goon
Posts: 751
Joined: October 17, 2021

Post Post #1663 (ISO) » Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:00 am

Post by Wiki »

Who should be elimed after u, Dorsey?
User avatar
Dorsey
Dorsey
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Dorsey
Goon
Goon
Posts: 404
Joined: August 12, 2021

Post Post #1664 (ISO) » Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:04 am

Post by Dorsey »

Datisi
User avatar
Selynee
Selynee
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Selynee
Goon
Goon
Posts: 374
Joined: November 12, 2016
Location: In a grey, dilapidated city somewhere on Earth

Post Post #1665 (ISO) » Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:06 am

Post by Selynee »

Why?
"For ours, a vale of better dreams"
User avatar
Wiki
Wiki
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Wiki
Goon
Goon
Posts: 751
Joined: October 17, 2021

Post Post #1666 (ISO) » Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:06 am

Post by Wiki »

Why should we wagoon him over gera and a50? Can you expain it?
User avatar
Wiki
Wiki
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Wiki
Goon
Goon
Posts: 751
Joined: October 17, 2021

Post Post #1667 (ISO) » Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:08 am

Post by Wiki »

If you are so sure thst he is the scummiest here, why dont you vote him instead of Andre/T3?
User avatar
Dorsey
Dorsey
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Dorsey
Goon
Goon
Posts: 404
Joined: August 12, 2021

Post Post #1668 (ISO) » Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:11 am

Post by Dorsey »

Because you need me dead to believe me and this thread is a mob of rhetoric I wouldn't be too butthurt to leave. Clearly I've stumbled into the wrong place.
User avatar
Andresvmb
Andresvmb
He/Him
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Andresvmb
He/Him
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 8778
Joined: July 26, 2020
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: NY, USA

Post Post #1669 (ISO) » Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:13 am

Post by Andresvmb »

In post 1616, T3 wrote:like i think i've won most of my recent scumgames? (by recent i mean 3 months lol)

either way you're voting me for disagreeing with you but you aren't pausing to actually invalidate my reasoning
You’re almost making an argument as to why we should execute you.

Look, us disagreeing on a bunch of reads doesn’t necessarily mean you’re Scum. That’s obvious. I have gotten a lot of reads wrong in the past, even when I’m paying attention and reading carefully. But I am having specific issues with your reads in that not only am I disagreeing, or think they’re premature perhaps, but they’re also hard to scrutinize. And maybe this is a play style thing. For instance, you’ve made the argument that depending on the level of effort, some players could be Town (Looker in ), or Scum (A50 in and , who I agree is not trying particularly hard and is openly admitting to not reading, but also had what I felt was a Towny post in ). Like I’ll ask you - How can you possibly know that A50’s excuse in isn’t genuine? You’ve also changed your view of A50 without really explaining it much, just recognizing that you have inconsistencies in your views (see for example, for what you had previously said about A50). And it’s not like A50 posted all that much between 1299 and 1571. In fact I don’t think they have any posts at all. So that just makes it seem like your read there is entirely made up.

I also don’t understand . Not when you later make saying you’re still SR’ing Iconeum (and where did you initially express that read? I can’t find it. Is it ?). Or your attack on regarding my read of Salsa which you immediately decided to back up after I explained it in . Particularly after your . It’s almost as if you’re just trying to cause chaos instead of actually reading anybody properly. You’ve also shaded Three (who I TR), didn’t follow up on that all that much (just as far as I can tell), and ended up agreeing without expressing much of a read there in .

Your read of DW early in the game also seemed a bit TMI’ish, but I didn’t disagree with it then (I’m just being cautious about DW, that’s all).

All in all, you’ve shaded A50, Three, Salsa, Datisi, Ico, Dorsey, and Selynee. Even to me, this seems overly aggressive and yes, opportunistic.
User avatar
ChaosOmega
ChaosOmega
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
ChaosOmega
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2283
Joined: May 2, 2007

Post Post #1670 (ISO) » Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:14 am

Post by ChaosOmega »

Votecount 1.10


Dorsey (4) - Dwlee99, Datisi, Iconeum, Three
T3 (3) - Andresvmb, Dorsey, Selynee
geraintm (2) - Almost50, Wiki
Looker (1) - Salsabil Faria
Salsabil Faria (1) - T3
Dwlee99 (1) - geraintm

Not Voting (1) - Looker

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate someone.

Deadline
: (expired on 2021-10-31 06:52:46)
Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!
User avatar
Dorsey
Dorsey
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Dorsey
Goon
Goon
Posts: 404
Joined: August 12, 2021

Post Post #1671 (ISO) » Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:15 am

Post by Dorsey »

If I had the same amount of time as previous games, I could reference posts, but there are too many posts, multiple games, and not enough free time. And then Datisi said he didn't even disagree with me, that he just wanted more, but he's comfortable letting other players slide. And I can understand that if he's scum, but for multiple people not to see the inconsistency but to just go with that. Why would I prolong my stay in that?
User avatar
Andresvmb
Andresvmb
He/Him
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Andresvmb
He/Him
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 8778
Joined: July 26, 2020
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: NY, USA

Post Post #1672 (ISO) » Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:15 am

Post by Andresvmb »

In post 1661, Dorsey wrote:I'm fine with dying, it's really not that serious. Clearly I struck a chord with scum since I'm being wagoned over geraintm and Almost50, so do what you will with that. This random "provide answers" bit is cheap, inconsistent and hypocritical - answers to what?
Answers to questions asked directly of you. It’s like you’re intentionally not reading. You were asked by both Datisi and I to explain your groupings in that one post you have were you indicate where you think Scum are. You never did. This isn’t hard what.
User avatar
Wiki
Wiki
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Wiki
Goon
Goon
Posts: 751
Joined: October 17, 2021

Post Post #1673 (ISO) » Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:16 am

Post by Wiki »

To believe in what?
Do you have so solid townreads and scumreads and u need to give you green color to everybody after your death to make everyone to play in your colors? Are you so sure in smth that even ready to die for it? Doubt about that...
User avatar
Dorsey
Dorsey
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Dorsey
Goon
Goon
Posts: 404
Joined: August 12, 2021

Post Post #1674 (ISO) » Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:18 am

Post by Dorsey »

And I get it, you guys have built a community around this worthless spewing of rhetoric, but just because you have the majority in this current space doesn't make you right. So saying I'm less meaningful than anyone else is incorrect. I feel like I wandered onto the Capitol on Jan 6 and this is clearly not my crowd.

Edit: Because of how they talk to each other
Locked

Return to “Completed Mini Normal Games”