Mini Normal 2275: Roguelikes - Day 3: Endgame!

[Eiralox]

Cw seems to like mala input enough to switch to eira/llowel/toffee but mala is townreading toffee.

Summary of loftwing these past few pages: they basically state theyre not gonna hunt scum and only do effort to darken folk who already git wagons. They only focus on eira, pushing fred, asking why the shift of eira? Nothing looks good here.

Kenyy vote on me.... 50/50 on that. Im feeling sum ppl are seeing cw as a townleader or whatever for sum absurd reason(and find them logical while I am not xD)

Pants im feeling good for the latest post. Seems level and open headed.

[Eiralox]

VOTE: Loftwing

welp at least now vc is accu. I see no solving from loftwing. I see no relish for the hunt. The fact that kenny and loft are now voting together should be noted.

Dont expect much more from me today.

[Eiralox]

Kenny

-Vote Mala

-Joke after Eira vote, can be construed as light shade.

-------
#148

-Mentions Eira RVs. Mentions Fancy push for jokey comment(after saying they understand nature of RVS)

-Questions Irell greening shoshin

-Shade on Toffee for pushing CW self-vote then jumping onto CSF

-CSF doesnt deserve wagon

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-Vote FancyPants for sus, doesn't say much of note.

-pushes Shoshin for townreading them, asks why shoshin is pushing for Malcolm vote.

-#228 explanation why fancy posh on them feels weird. i agree, fancy doesnt have much of a reason here, but it's kenny lengthy exposition on a defense that can be kept very short and basic that i note. not indicative.

-Asks for Toffee for elaboration on scumreading them.

-Questions Toffee';s kenny scumread and sudden Llowell switch.

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#338 readlist

Toffee: null
Lowell: Scumlean
Loftwing: Scumlean
CW: townlean(gut)
Malcolm: townlean
Shoshin: scumlean for townreads
Fred: nothing bad to say, few solid posts, townlean
Cat: town
Mala: null, open to policy elim
Fancy: Scumlean
Irrel: townlean
Eira:null

---------------------

-seems to feel more green on pants

#669: Entrance, will do small posts before comment on Eira/cw

#670: asks cw to expand reads, asks if kenny/bbt still null, and why cw isn't paring kenny with lowell?

#675: sees my point of view but takes offense with one of my comments, eira downgraded.

#676: Asks BBT if they want a wagon of their own.

#677: Asks why CSF is shifting off Eira

#687: Sees Eira as the better option over policy elim(i'm assuming mala here). Didn't want to vote for me earlier cos didn't want to have fast elim, but now that fred has shifted to mala kenny is ok voting Eira.

Taking this in concert with #675 makes me feel worse about the kenny vote. 675 is emphatic and i appreciate that, but ultimately takes offense with me asking Pants why they want to put me at -1. Kenny said in Eira vote they didnt want a fast elim so them using this single comment of mine as their main point of offense doesn't read good to me. I can see one possible scumteam in kenny iso. wont expand on that atm.

They have voted Mala/Pants/Eira thus far. Mala rvs, Pants basically for pant's analysis of early kenny statement and Eira for... i'm not going to put words in ppls mouths. kenny has to expand their vote on me in their own time.

[Eiralox]

aand another thing: in #338 kenny has Lowell, Loftwing, Shoshin and Fancy as scumleans. Mala null but ok with policy elim.

Between #338 and #687 Kennyk has only publicly felt better about Pants.

So I want to know: what changed? #687 Kenny only talks about Eira and policy vote, which I assume means MalaKittens.

And kenny questions CatScratchFever for switching off Eira and onto Lowell.

So yeah maybe reads changed, they do, sure, but I wanna know what happened on the scumleans on Lowell, Shoshin and Loftwing?

Why does Kennyk only seems to be considering Eira and I'm assuming Mala in #687?

there are wagons on both loftwing and llowel at this point. Do kenny still scumlean on them? Because they sure don't seem to be considering those two wagons as viable despite earlier scumleaning both.

[Eiralox]

But no one is saying that is scummy on its own.

That's all I've really seen so far

i'm liking this

[FancyPants]

But no one is saying that is scummy on its own.

That's all I've really seen so far

i'm liking this

Really?

I mean BBT says like 2 posts later that he hasn't read the 6 pages of back and forth between you and CW.

What is there to like about it.

[FancyPants]

I understand CW completely when he says Eira's reads are post hoc justified.

Eira decides someone is scum and then "finds" reasons for them to be scummy or townie based on reasoning which often makes no sense.

The only question is - Is Eira making these "after the fact reads" because:
- They are scum and know all the alignments but without any of the scum hunting or
- They are totally emotionally driven and anyone on their side is good, and anyone against them is bad, which they then justify to themselves in some convoluted way.

[Eiralox]

But no one is saying that is scummy on its own.

That's all I've really seen so far

i'm liking this

Really?

I mean BBT says like 2 posts later that he hasn't read the 6 pages of back and forth between you and CW.

What is there to like about it.

the fact that the same piss-poor argument was being used by mutliple people(and still used by loftwing) and that toffee is pointing this out to cw, who is so stuck in their tunnel boner on me that things like that seems to pass them by. i can feel good about player's posts stop sniping me.

[FancyPants]

OK I'll stop interacting with you for now.

[Eiralox]

I understand CW completely when he says Eira's reads are post hoc justified.

Eira decides someone is scum and then "finds" reasons for them to be scummy or townie based on reasoning which often makes no sense.

The only question is - Is Eira making these "after the fact reads" because:
- They are scum and know all the alignments but without any of the scum hunting or
- They are totally emotionally driven and anyone on their side is good, and anyone against them is bad, which they then justify to themselves in some convoluted way.

yeah i don't know what you're saying here. i stated i was inactive and why. if that doesnt do for you regarding...whatever bullshit theory cw is currently on well thats a you problem. i'll expand on reads if and when i please, i'm not afd0-hoccing antyhing i just now have time to be invested in this game. didn't have that before. i'm not totally emotionally driven, and what youre saying here about good and bad doesnt ad up.

you don't know me, dont assume you do.

and anyone against me bad? c'mon pants. now youre lying. cats and ireel i was ok with. fred i enjoyed interacting with. kenny and loft have some summy stuff regarding them. cw i cant stand at all, they are bossy, i pushed back against that.

and you i'm feeling good about even tho i absolutely struggle communicating with you and don't agree with your reasoning(like in above post, i'm not liking your analysis of me at all, u really think i play wholly emotionally? anyway, i don;t like talking to u but that doesnt mean imma call scum on u.)

OK I'll stop interacting with you for now.

no problem.

[Irrelephant11]

CW could be scum trying to power a miselim through. I think loftwing is a pretty good flip

We should consider making a flip happen sooner rather than later because this weekend is a holiday weekend for everyone in the US and we have about 2.5 days left in this game day, during which the American players might barely post (e.g. me, I'll be hanging with family)

[kennyk]

Lowell not knowing that there is day hat for scum after him not playing for so long is a possible thing. But there have been posts about day chat in this game (pants asked about its influence on the game).
This doesn't feel too good.

[Confidently Wrong]

CW could be scum trying to power a miselim through. I think loftwing is a pretty good flip

We should consider making a flip happen sooner rather than later because this weekend is a holiday weekend for everyone in the US and we have about 2.5 days left in this game day, during which the American players might barely post (e.g. me, I'll be hanging with family)

What signs do you see me being scum?

And why is Loftwing a good flip? Over Eira even?

[kennyk]

aand another thing: in #338 kenny has Lowell, Loftwing, Shoshin and Fancy as scumleans. Mala null but ok with policy elim.

Between #338 and #687 Kennyk has only publicly felt better about Pants.

So I want to know: what changed? #687 Kenny only talks about Eira and policy vote, which I assume means MalaKittens.

And kenny questions CatScratchFever for switching off Eira and onto Lowell.

So yeah maybe reads changed, they do, sure, but I wanna know what happened on the scumleans on Lowell, Shoshin and Loftwing?

Why does Kennyk only seems to be considering Eira and I'm assuming Mala in #687?

there are wagons on both loftwing and llowel at this point. Do kenny still scumlean on them? Because they sure don't seem to be considering those two wagons as viable despite earlier scumleaning both.

This is a reply to Eira's double post. I won't quote the other, as it makes me wonder, why I am the one who was accused off a too lengthy post.

This might sound a bit harsh, but I sometimes have the feeling, Eira is deliberately trying to misread things. There were some occasions in his infight with CW, which led me to this conclusion. And now there is this double post.

What on earth makes you think, I only have one single comment of you as my main point for voting you?

You obviously read post 675 as you named it. There are at least three arguments in that post of why I think you are at least worthy of a scumlean.

On the other hand I never said, I changed my reads on Lowell, Loftwing an Shoshin, because at the point of my vote, they still all were in the same scumlean range (Shoshin was upgraded by now, if you wanna know it).

And if you have more than one player on your list, at one point you must decide, where to place your vote. You were the most likely scum for me at that time. Combined with the fact, that there really was no wagon on Shoshin and Lowell at that time and the wagon on Loftwing was small, I decided it was best to go with the most scummiest on my personal readlist who incidentally had the highest chance of going through. But just because I didn't mention them, doesn't mean I didn't find them viable.

[Eiralox]

This is a reply to Eira's double post. I won't quote the other, as it makes me wonder, why I am the one who was accused off a too lengthy post.

I said you're long pants post in non-indicative. I merely noted it for posterity.

This might sound a bit harsh, but I sometimes have the feeling, Eira is deliberately trying to misread things. There were some occasions in his infight with CW, which led me to this conclusion. And now there is this double post.

i'm deliberately trying 2 find scum

What on earth makes you think, I only have one single comment of you as my main point for voting you?

that's what i got from a careful reading.

You obviously read post 675 as you named it. There are at least three arguments in that post of why I think you are at least worthy of a scumlean.

again i only saw 1, unless ur counting going with cw as an argument.

On the other hand I never said, I changed my reads on Lowell, Loftwing an Shoshin, because at the point of my vote, they still all were in the same scumlean range (Shoshin was upgraded by now, if you wanna know it).

never said u did change ur reads. said that at time of voting me u only seemed to be considering mala as an alternative. and the fact that ur asking CSF why they switch of me to lowell(your scumlean) ran all kinda warning bells 2 me. Loftwing has done this exact same thing with fred, and cw with a few others.

And if you have more than one player on your list, at one point you must decide, where to place your vote. You were the most likely scum for me at that time. Combined with the fact, that there really was no wagon on Shoshin and Lowell at that time and the wagon on Loftwing was small, I decided it was best to go with the most scummiest on my personal readlist who incidentally had the highest chance of going through. But just because I didn't mention them, doesn't mean I didn't find them viable.

hmmmmmm. the wagon on loftwing wasn't small. was biggest one besides mine at time of your vote and prior to me testing cw.



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well ok imma just go on and say it: poss scum team i'm seeing rn is loftwing/kenny/confidently wrong. there are patterns, not something i'm betting the farm on rn but bleh might as well share.

i have no particular case against kenny and cw as of now, cw doesnt offer me much as of yet tbh and most prob. town among those three for now.


kennny......there's one thing i'll say about it. this might just be me being whoopy but kenny's vote on eira, their progression to that point... idk it feels as if a scum chat is involved with that. kenny comes in and mentions lowell before adressing my posts calling 'em for not having a say on lowell wagon at time of voting for me. that's very convenient in my eyes, adding the fact that Kenny didn't seem happy with CSF voting lowell above me. so i'm feeling kenny is wary forming a hard opinion on loftwing atm? and very wary of jumping on that wagon.

Agree with irrelphant about Loftwing being a good flip atm, chances are I won't be changing my vote today.

[Irrelephant11]

CW could be scum trying to power a miselim through. I think loftwing is a pretty good flip

We should consider making a flip happen sooner rather than later because this weekend is a holiday weekend for everyone in the US and we have about 2.5 days left in this game day, during which the American players might barely post (e.g. me, I'll be hanging with family)

What signs do you see me being scum?

And why is Loftwing a good flip? Over Eira even?

I'm not confident Eiralox is scum, and you seem surprisingly confident. Could be posturing to get a miselim. It's not my #1 theory, but I know you're pretty good at mafia so I can't rule it out. I have no interest in flipping you in the near future though

[Shoshin]

How good is CW, Irrel?

[Irrelephant11]

Never played together before, but I know as DkKoba they were named the best player in a recent tournament mafia game on Mafia Universe

[Irrelephant11]

that was a game they played as mafia btw

[Lowell]

CW could be scum trying to power a miselim through. I think loftwing is a pretty good flip

We should consider making a flip happen sooner rather than later because this weekend is a holiday weekend for everyone in the US and we have about 2.5 days left in this game day, during which the American players might barely post (e.g. me, I'll be hanging with family)

I agree with this, especially as one of the folks who will be more out than in this weekend. And the way the loftwing wagon just seems to be floating there with no one wanting to hammer makes me feel good about it. The last vote is always the hardest--come on folks, someone be a hero.

[Lowell]

@eira, loft/kenny/CW would be a hilariously clumsy scumteam so I doubt it. But loft with one of those two seems possible, with the third person being the duped town player along for the ride.

[kennyk]

Spoiler: Eiralox post 789 spoilered for better reading experience

This is a reply to Eira's double post. I won't quote the other, as it makes me wonder, why I am the one who was accused off a too lengthy post.

I said you're long pants post in non-indicative. I merely noted it for posterity.

This might sound a bit harsh, but I sometimes have the feeling, Eira is deliberately trying to misread things. There were some occasions in his infight with CW, which led me to this conclusion. And now there is this double post.

i'm deliberately trying 2 find scum

What on earth makes you think, I only have one single comment of you as my main point for voting you?

that's what i got from a careful reading.

You obviously read post 675 as you named it. There are at least three arguments in that post of why I think you are at least worthy of a scumlean.

again i only saw 1, unless ur counting going with cw as an argument.

On the other hand I never said, I changed my reads on Lowell, Loftwing an Shoshin, because at the point of my vote, they still all were in the same scumlean range (Shoshin was upgraded by now, if you wanna know it).

never said u did change ur reads. said that at time of voting me u only seemed to be considering mala as an alternative. and the fact that ur asking CSF why they switch of me to lowell(your scumlean) ran all kinda warning bells 2 me. Loftwing has done this exact same thing with fred, and cw with a few others.

And if you have more than one player on your list, at one point you must decide, where to place your vote. You were the most likely scum for me at that time. Combined with the fact, that there really was no wagon on Shoshin and Lowell at that time and the wagon on Loftwing was small, I decided it was best to go with the most scummiest on my personal readlist who incidentally had the highest chance of going through. But just because I didn't mention them, doesn't mean I didn't find them viable.

hmmmmmm. the wagon on loftwing wasn't small. was biggest one besides mine at time of your vote and prior to me testing cw.



-------------


well ok imma just go on and say it: poss scum team i'm seeing rn is loftwing/kenny/confidently wrong. there are patterns, not something i'm betting the farm on rn but bleh might as well share.

i have no particular case against kenny and cw as of now, cw doesnt offer me much as of yet tbh and most prob. town among those three for now.


kennny......there's one thing i'll say about it. this might just be me being whoopy but kenny's vote on eira, their progression to that point... idk it feels as if a scum chat is involved with that. kenny comes in and mentions lowell before adressing my posts calling 'em for not having a say on lowell wagon at time of voting for me. that's very convenient in my eyes, adding the fact that Kenny didn't seem happy with CSF voting lowell above me. so i'm feeling kenny is wary forming a hard opinion on loftwing atm? and very wary of jumping on that wagon.

Agree with irrelphant about Loftwing being a good flip atm, chances are I won't be changing my vote today.

Eira, if I tunnel you now, I can say you did dig that tunnel on your own. You did deliberately misinterpreted my post again.

First: The "lenthy post" comment wasn't directed to you. (this one I don't count as deliberate as it wasn't specified at who it was)

Second: Here are all three arguments from post 675, quoted seperately for your convenience:

The often cited "Eira went off after CWs vote and pushed CW for the mala/lowell/Eira thing" is the most prominent of them. I never read CWs post as a "those three are for sure connected scum" list. It is more like a "those three are the most scummiest for me right now". It would be very dubious if anyone had a list with three players on them who are all connected scum on day one in any normal game.

Eiras unwillingness to discuss with CW is something I can fully understand. I was very short of doing the same thing myself in said game, but never voiced it. But later refusing to talk to others as well felt way off, but could be due to his bad temper from his discussion with CW as it has softened quite a bit (thanks to Fred).

Allthough I still stand by my word, that I would be willing to do a policy elim on Mala because of her inactivity, I don't think Eiras "why kill me, an active player" is a feasible argument.

Third: CSF's vote change was out of the blue. I found absolutely no clue as to why it happened. There was no reason given. Between CSF voting you and changing back to Lowell there were exactly three posts by CSF: CW is town; CSF's too cute to be scum; answer to my question regarding Mala. That's the thing that felt odd and not the fact that the vote went from you to Lowell. Why you think I am unhappy with CSF's change is beyond me.

Forth: I try it in other words: If your number one suspect for scum has the longest wagon and your number two suspect the second longest, where would you vote?

Fifth: There is absolutely no scum chat involved in my progression to voting you. You should try and bet your farm on that.

[kennyk]

CW could be scum trying to power a miselim through. I think loftwing is a pretty good flip

We should consider making a flip happen sooner rather than later because this weekend is a holiday weekend for everyone in the US and we have about 2.5 days left in this game day, during which the American players might barely post (e.g. me, I'll be hanging with family)

I agree with this, especially as one of the folks who will be more out than in this weekend. And the way the loftwing wagon just seems to be floating there with no one wanting to hammer makes me feel good about it. The last vote is always the hardest--come on folks, someone be a hero.

If I see things right, Loftwing is still at E-2. The votecount in post 765 had him at E-2 but it was wrong, as Eira was on Lowell. Eira then got on Loftwing, so he is now at E-2.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I will be v/la until Sunday afternoonish

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I will be v/la until Sunday afternoonish

@mod