Mini Normal 2277 - Frog Images (Game Over)

[Seanzie]

What is that something else? Also, Klick hasn’t posted since you requested he towncase redcardinal?

I'd rather wait to hear from Klick before I answer that.

True, but I got bored waiting, so I voted them to pressure them to answer sooner. Is this actually going to make them answer faster? perhaps, perhaps not. Did I want to do it anyways? yes.

[T3]

Fair.
I think I’ll VOTE: Enchant for now.

[redcardinal]

why enchant? you mentioned you didn't think enchant or klick kill gamma here, what changed? very curious bc enchant seems like what mala wants to pivot to as well

[redcardinal]

why enchant? you mentioned you didn't think enchant or klick kill gamma here, what changed? very curious bc enchant seems like what mala wants to pivot to as well

[T3]

Honestly, I don’t think I was thinking too clearly. Very little sleep, plus I was very distracted when writing that post.

[T3]

Enchant is just someone random in my PoE

[Seanzie]

Enchant is just someone random in my PoE

I think the way Enchant hammered yesterday would have been hard for a wolf to do. Not just the hammer, but like I believe the hesitation, and not feeling good about trusting me who was asking them to do it, and just the feelz of them in that moment.

[redcardinal]

I can see how someone would think it could be faked but yeah, my initial impression was the hammer yesterday seemed hesitant in a towny kind of way

[T3]

UNVOTE: Enchant
My reads are barely changing. There’s a part of me that just wants to vote redcardinal despite my townread on her just to see where that gets me. At the same time, my only actual scumread is KT, a claimed PR.

[T3]

I can see how someone would think it could be faked but yeah, my initial impression was the hammer yesterday seemed hesitant in a towny kind of way

I didn’t get that impression at all. Either way, I don’t know if I want to vote Enchant today.

[Seanzie]

UNVOTE: Enchant
My reads are barely changing. There’s a part of me that just wants to vote redcardinal despite my townread on her just to see where that gets me. At the same time, my only actual scumread is KT, a claimed PR.

Out of the people who aren't you, me, RC, KT and Enchant, who do you think is towniest, and who scummiest? Preferably with reasons, but names would suffice here.

[redcardinal]

I can see how someone would think it could be faked but yeah, my initial impression was the hammer yesterday seemed hesitant in a towny kind of way

I didn’t get that impression at all. Either way, I don’t know if I want to vote Enchant today.

hey, that's fine. I'm not completely sure about enchant being town either. but given mala's shade there today and the way I'm interpreting that right now I'm *very* hesitant to go after enchant today. Voting me wouldn't get you anywhere, trust me. I recommend klick or haschel if you scumread either of them.

[KittyTacky]

Like the way I see 1380 right now is that you’re saying that scum!you would have known scum!Mala wasn’t mason?

scum!me would have known that there were no mafia prs that could have made gamma show up as vanilla

But what if it’s a town PR that makes Gamma show up as vanilla? Or a thing with Mala’s role?

No such PR in normal games.

Redcardinal's solve makes sense.
VOTE: Klick

[Haschel Cedricson]

Right now I'm doing a dive into the specific wagons. Klick is a good choice for scum but I'm not voting yet until I finish my current project.

[redcardinal]

yeah that's about how I expected hasch to respond town or scum, makes me feel more solid in the poe here

[Ausuka]

Votecount 3.1

Klick (3)

- redcardinal, Seanzie, KittyTacky

redcardinal (1)

- Klick

Not Voting (5)

- Enchant, Haschel Cedricson, Malakittens, schadd_, T3

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to decide an elimination. Deadline is in (expired on 2022-08-17 16:58:42).

Mod notes

Please let me know if you notice any errors!

[Klick]

So from what I can tell, you have me pretty much as a town!lock. Being in this coveted position, I'd like to ask you to do me a favor. Would you be willing to attempt to towncase RedCardinal? You've been scumreading them pretty much without wavering since you got into the thread, and I think they're town. In order to help me read you, I'd like to see if you can consider the flipside of Red's posts.

I'm not asking you to necessarily change your read on Red, but just like... go through their ISO and try to see if you can give any evidence for town!Red here (even if you think the evidence for scum!Red outweighs the evidence for town!Red).

The problem here is that with the way I solve, I have a lot of trouble giving thoughts on people that aren't genuinely what I believe. I find many of the things commonly used to townread and scumread people just... wrong, or not an accurate way of solving. I could try to intentionally towncase redcardinal, but it wouldn't be genuine.

What will probably be more useful is if I read redcardinal's ISO and see if that changes anything?

[Klick]

The problem is that I see basically no issue with the content redcardinal has posted coming from a scum PoV
like you could argue that the sheer amount of content she has posted is more likely to come from town than scum, but that's not solid and I don't see redcardinal as the type to post less as scum anyway

I have no reason to townread the slot at all which is usually where scum winds up being in my experience.

[Seanzie]

So from what I can tell, you have me pretty much as a town!lock. Being in this coveted position, I'd like to ask you to do me a favor. Would you be willing to attempt to towncase RedCardinal? You've been scumreading them pretty much without wavering since you got into the thread, and I think they're town. In order to help me read you, I'd like to see if you can consider the flipside of Red's posts.

I'm not asking you to necessarily change your read on Red, but just like... go through their ISO and try to see if you can give any evidence for town!Red here (even if you think the evidence for scum!Red outweighs the evidence for town!Red).

The problem here is that with the way I solve, I have a lot of trouble giving thoughts on people that aren't genuinely what I believe. I find many of the things commonly used to townread and scumread people just... wrong, or not an accurate way of solving. I could try to intentionally towncase redcardinal, but it wouldn't be genuine.

What will probably be more useful is if I read redcardinal's ISO and see if that changes anything?

Hmm... okay. Could you possibly quote a recent scum game or two of yours? Feel free to throw a town game in as well if you want.

[T3]

UNVOTE: Enchant
My reads are barely changing. There’s a part of me that just wants to vote redcardinal despite my townread on her just to see where that gets me. At the same time, my only actual scumread is KT, a claimed PR.

Out of the people who aren't you, me, RC, KT and Enchant, who do you think is towniest, and who scummiest? Preferably with reasons, but names would suffice here.

Mala. I don’t like her posts about Gamma, they feel very strange and not genuine. I also don’t understand her read on KT.
Then schadd. I still think my case on him is valid, and then he made a massive wall on the wagon against him that I couldn’t make out. I haven’t given him much mental attention since.
Next is Haschel. There was one of his posts a while ago that I didn’t like, a few that I liked, but he’s posted way too little for me to have a good read on his content.
Finally, we have Klick. He never answered 1064, and his answer may affect my read on him. Other than that, his read on Seanzie seems genuine. His response to redcardinal is also towny. While Klick doesn’t strike me as the type of player to overreact to a push, his response to the wagon on him isn’t defensive at all. He just calmly explains his playstyle. Also, Klick has been scumreading redcardinal pretty much since he replaced in, long before redcardinal was a viable wagon.

[T3]

Like the way I see 1380 right now is that you’re saying that scum!you would have known scum!Mala wasn’t mason?

scum!me would have known that there were no mafia prs that could have made gamma show up as vanilla

But what if it’s a town PR that makes Gamma show up as vanilla? Or a thing with Mala’s role?

No such PR in normal games.

Redcardinal's solve makes sense.
VOTE: Klick

1. I know there is no such PR in normal games, I was questioning why redcardinal didn’t consider a town PR to cause Gamma to flip VT.

2. VOTE: KT
This is just bad opportunism.

[schadd_]

i was reading some of eod2 but didnt post. in principle a rolecop claim merits a higher level of scrutiny for if youre gonna vote them out, it is a mildly positive utility role (it gets hard alignment results on e.g. vengeful & strongman, and it's otherwise good when you get a result on someone who is mafia) and there's also a world where their result on me somehow explained why they'd be weird abt my slot. i never unvoted just bc i kept thinking they had the best chance of flipping red although by a bit smaller of a margin.

i was kind of edging gamma towards null in my mind during the night. lol. it just seemed tricky to particularly townread eiralox yesterday and especially 1271 came across as white knighty. & i did also continue to just find it bizarre to be tring enchant. also i initially townread that thing where she spells out reasons for reads based on other games but after the vote in 1090 was sitting on me for a while it sort of felt like a safe way to be voting a townie. anyway

In theory Schadd is the one person that Eiralox has extra information about but he doesn't interact with Schadd in a way that tries to leverage that information to do anything.

i'm interested to know what you would do to leverage a vanilla result

well that's embarrassing VOTE: Haschel

was there something that made mala seem less wolfy here? it's not exactly clear to me what you were calling 'confirming' in 1357 and how it changes after hearing mala is joking abt the claim

Before anything happens we need to know who KT blocked.

I blocked redcardinal.

did you think rc was scum during the night?

A Town Rolecop and a Town Roleblocker are quite weak

Bullshit

They are not weak

Yes…. I think they are? At least compared to other PR’s. I doubt scum would have compensation for them. I think schadd is a pretty experienced mod, so I’d be interested in his input.

rolecop is weak (i guess my thing at the top is to say i'd marginally rather have one alive, but it's like a tenth as good a cop). roleblocker is medium i'd say. kind of good.

I still think my case on him is valid

i think its not

[Enchant]

idk if i was mafia!redcordinal i would't white knight me.

[Enchant]

Malakittens doesh't feel like self.

[Malakittens]

Meh