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havingfitz
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Post Post #2250  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:21 am

In post 2249, Srceenplay wrote:and flavor

Even better. Lol...
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Post Post #2251  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:42 am

In post 2242, Gamma Emerald wrote:How did this setup get passed...
NRG you fucked up
go ahead and release my PT


??????
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Post Post #2252  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:33 am

In post 2242, Gamma Emerald wrote:How did this setup get passed...
NRG you fucked up
go ahead and release my PT

How did you vote a confirmed miller when mafia miller is strictly forbidden in normals?
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend

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Post Post #2253  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:37 am

In post 2246, havingfitz wrote:Good game scum (mvp FL).

Says the guy who had reads even worse than mine
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend

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Post Post #2254  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:39 am

I mean, I didn’t play great but I definitely would have nailed FL which is why he had to kill me, and I felt I did a good job of recognizing town Hawk when everyone else wanted him hung D1 just for claiming miller and I recognized town gamma and scum FL before I died.

Fitz is just salty i pushed through his lynch
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend

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Post Post #2255  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:39 am

In post 2252, Fro99er wrote:
In post 2242, Gamma Emerald wrote:How did this setup get passed...
NRG you fucked up
go ahead and release my PT

How did you vote a confirmed miller when mafia miller is strictly forbidden in normals?

Another game had me confused
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Post Post #2256  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:40 am

Game was balanced fine
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend

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Post Post #2257  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:44 am

Miller is more of a named town than a negative utility imo.
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Post Post #2258  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:52 am

What a game

Flavor leaf amazing
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Antihero
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Post Post #2259  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:55 am

In post 2257, Creature wrote:Miller is more of a named town than a negative utility imo.


depends on context

w a cop, it's neg utility bc it's one fewer townie that can be cop cleared

w a rolecop, it's a definitive inno

wo those, it's really nothing (idk about all the "named townie" stuff... named townie has more of an IC element to it whereas a miller wo an investigative doesn't do anything and there's no good way to predict if the miller claim is real or not)
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Post Post #2260  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:57 am

In post 2259, Antihero wrote:w a cop, it's neg utility bc it's one fewer townie that can be cop cleared

Miller claims D1.
Cop avoids miller and get other results.

If cop dies earlier, miller will work as a named town regardless, which is useful even if there's no rolecop.
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Post Post #2261  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:58 am

Sure, scum can claim miller, but as much as scum can claim named town.
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Post Post #2262  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:02 am

In post 2260, Creature wrote:Miller claims D1.
Cop avoids miller and get other results.


i get that...

cop has no definitive way of being able to tell if claimed miller is actually miller or scum fakeclaiming tho

therefore, claimed miller is out of the pool of "can be cop cleared"
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Post Post #2263  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:03 am

Would you investigate someone who claims named town?
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Post Post #2264  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:03 am

In post 2261, Creature wrote:Sure, scum can claim miller, but as much as scum can claim named town.


i guess i just thought "named townie" was always used as a flavor IC (if someone claims it and isn't CCed, they're conftown)

do ppl use named townie another way? that's kinda dumb
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Post Post #2265  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:05 am

In post 2264, Antihero wrote:
In post 2261, Creature wrote:Sure, scum can claim miller, but as much as scum can claim named town.


i guess i just thought "named townie" was always used as a flavor IC (if someone claims it and isn't CCed, they're conftown)

do ppl use named townie another way? that's kinda dumb

Some considered replacing IC with named town (there was a discussion about it).
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Y me dejó sólo sin su amor

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Post Post #2266  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:05 am

In post 2263, Creature wrote:Would you investigate someone who claims named town?


if the setup info SAID there was a named townie and no one CCed, ofc not

if not, then... yeah
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Post Post #2267  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:12 am

I've been named townie, 'tis a pretty lame role to rand
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Post Post #2268  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:32 am

In post 2258, Mulch wrote:What a game

Flavor leaf amazing


<3

No idea you were the traitor, btw.
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Post Post #2269  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:33 am

Cool with pt being released
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havingfitz
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Post Post #2270  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:41 am

In post 2253, Fro99er wrote:
In post 2246, havingfitz wrote:Good game scum (mvp FL).

Says the guy who had reads even worse than mine


Which of my reads were bad Frogger?

My D1 Gamma scum read which I backed off of after closer review? Something you failed to do with me.
My D1 suspicions towards Creature?
My D1 Smocaine suspicions which you shared?

My D2 Flavor suspicions which you discounted as NAI?

My D3 Creature suspicions when you had him as town?

lol at your reads being any good. You did call FL scum. Considering you voted 10 of the players in this game (9 if we don't count you...but not once Flavor) yeah...you did great. Your D1 lovefest with "Mulchy" was a thing of beauty. Thankfully Anti's guilty on Mulch prevented you from "masoning" away the game with him...lol.

I admit it though...I am a bit snarky when I get a mislynch pushed on me in ~12 hours for sh*t reasoning from someone with blinders on throwing a shit fit in the game and repeatedly calling town f*cking idiots when they aren't getting their way. lol...so you got that snarky read spot on. :D

No hard feelings. It was a fun game while it lasted.
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Post Post #2271  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:50 am

Also, @Two - I legit was just away from the game and wasn’t really caught up, so when you came in and pushed me, it made it easy for me to post and tunnel onto you the first few days.

And yeah, I kill off my threats when they don’t incriminate me. Transcend, Antihero, Frog, all we’re my immediate threats that would have pushed me. Two got townie, and it allowed me to kill there. Chara was the kill that was worrisome for me, but it worked out.
"I don't want to sit in a lecture that teaches me how to modify algorithms instead of think for myself." - Lip Gallagher [Shameless]
”Flavor Leaf is my hero.” - RadiantCowbells
Yes, I’m Boonskiies. Yes, I would do that as scum.

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Post Post #2272  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:51 am

Also, I thought Antihero was our traitor. :lol: even after the guilty.

I also slipped hella hard in the neighborhood Day 2.
"I don't want to sit in a lecture that teaches me how to modify algorithms instead of think for myself." - Lip Gallagher [Shameless]
”Flavor Leaf is my hero.” - RadiantCowbells
Yes, I’m Boonskiies. Yes, I would do that as scum.

Fro99er
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Post Post #2273  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:54 am

I love Fitz’s saltiness
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend

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Post Post #2274  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:55 am

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Main_Page
Search box -> Normal

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game
Roles which are explicitly Normal for Town only include:
Vanilla Townie, Friendly Neighbor, Innocent Child, Mason, Miller, Vigilante, any roles listed as "for any alignment"



Search box -> Miller
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Miller
For obvious reasons, standard Millers are Town.

Normal Guidelines
A Miller that knows they are a Miller and flips as such is considered Normal on mafiascum.net. A Miller returns a guilty result if investigated by a Cop, "Miller" if investigated by a Role Cop, and "non-Vanilla" to a Vanilla Cop. The Normal variant of Miller specifically only produces a false guilty to a Cop and Seer, so for example, a Gunsmith will see them as having no gun (unless they have a gun for some other reason).



wrt balance in traitor games...
Subject: Srceenplay's Mini Normal Review

mhsmith0 wrote:Last I checked mini normals with traitors were ballpark 50% town win rate

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=29549

some recent ones:

1954 town
PT cop, 2x masons, neighborizer, PT enabler
vs enctyptor, even roleblocker, traitor

1938 scum
JOAT (doc/jk/bg), 2-shot vig, gunsmith
vs neighborizer, JOAT (cop/rolecop), BP traitor

1895 town
neighbor/cop, neighbor, neighbor, fruit vendor, doc
vs odd roleblocker, even roleblocker, traitor

1814 scum
non-consecutive jailer, joat (voeur, bg, neapolitan, neighborizer, motion detector, follower), weak doctor, 2-shot commuter
vs goon, goon, traitor encryptor

1762 town
3-shot jailkeeper, gunsmith, 1-shot vig
vs goon, goon, traitor

etc


Subject: Srceenplay's Mini Normal Review

mhsmith0 wrote:
In post 37, Srceenplay wrote:Gunsmith
Role Cop
Neighbourizer
Miller
6 VT

VS

Roleblocker Traitor
Goon
Encryption


That is definiteli NOT a lot for town.

Like, against the equivalent of a 3 goon team it's probably acceptable
But you have one strong role (gs - which scum can still BS around, and which will falsely clear the traitor and falsely guilty the rolecop), one situationally decent role (role cop can find two scum roles and verify the miller), a miller who's normally NU but can be cleared by rolecop (and GS? i admittedly forget on that one), and a neighborizer, which is completely useless most of the time.

Change gunsmtih to cop and you're probably fine here. Give town something small otherwise (even night doc?) and you're probably fine as well.


I'll explicitly take any and all comments wrt balance since it was my explicit suggestion on balance that was taken. I think in retrospect... balance was about correct. Scum outplayed town, but not massively so, and scum won. A gunsmith here would have been incredibly risky because it sets up a godfather (the traitor) who's completely unkillable by his faction, and can only be caught by the rolecop... and town didn't have enough power to justify that kind of "it probably won't happen, but if it DID happen then it's really bad news" outcome (and as it so happened, anti DID investigate mulch n1, so if he was a gunsmith instead of a cop, then town would have been in enormous trouble just on PR actions).
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