Mini1147-Royal Mafia at the Round Table (Game Over!)

[Twistedspoon]

indeed, NE has gone under the radar for too long

I'm fine with this wagon. My vote on Javert is utterly redundant anyways now that his wagon is gone and he's claimed :/

VOTE: NE

[ender241]

2) If you think a player is scum, the answer is to get them lynched. Not investigate them. That is all.

No, you don't understand the point. If, for example i asked the question and someone responded: "If you were killed it would definitely make Javert look like scum" (assuming Javert is town) they would kill me and give the idea of Javert scum off. So if the person responded did that it would be "drawing out dumb-scum"

[Rhinox]

I understand now, ender.

unvote, vote Twistedspoon

[Maxous]

@:Rhinox: Why is Ender an "easy target"?
And who are the scum that are speculating on his role?(in your opinion)

@Twistedspoon: Why do you think Necessary Evil is scum?

[Necessary Evil]

Good game so far. Keep it up!

I brought that up because it looked to me like he invented the other two possibilities when he was under pressure. I don't see why he would be campaigning for Javert so hard if he genuinely thought there was a strong possibility that Javert was town. If that possibility is weak, how does that justify his defense?

But even though he didn't think Javert was town, there were still two possibilities for him being town. Not thinking them likely doesn't mean they don't exist.

Thank you for proving my point for me. ender didn't think Javert was town when he voted for him (clearly) and made up the two town possibilities to cover his ass.

I don't try to tie people together until at least one of them is already dead. Oso is less scummy than Twistedspoon, Prosaurus, and ender right now.

But you still think Oso is scummy right? That is what I read.
Why is what ender did scummier then Oso to switch your vote to ender?

At the time of that post I did, but Oso is looking more town by the post. ender jumped on Javert in a situation that is easy for scum to do so, then he tried to back off from it in a rather transparent fashion.

Why does it matter that Ender didn't post the other possibilities? He clearly favored the Javert-scum theory, so kinda obviously his posting is gonna be biased towards mentioning that theory.

It looks to me like he thought he was in trouble and made those other two possibilities up after the fact as a defense.

What? How would making up those possibilities constitute a defense? What attack does that post defend him from? To me it just looks like he's considering all the possibilities.

The post containing the new possibilities was posted in reply to Oso's case and vote. That's what he was defending.

Look at 138: "Start answering questions, i doubt your a DayVig." Ender used the D word. No not dayvig, the other one. Doubt. He

doubts

Javert is a dayvig. Not he's completely certain Javert isn't one. There's really no inconsistency here.

Okay, but it's never clear that ender was thinking that Javert was town at that time.

I very strongly disagree that Ender's lurker hunting was not scumhunting. You're right in that the activity overview isn't really sufficient to determine who's a lurker and who's not, but it's a recent addition that hasn't been fully explored, and I can see where someone would make the mistake of assuming you can find lurkerscum just using it. I really think that's what Ender did here.

It fits in with the whole suspicious pattern of behaviour he was in after Oso voted for him. He had to vote for somebody besides Javert and he couldn't fake a good case so he went after a pseudo-lurker.

I would say I don't know what to think of that except I do. I think it smells. If scum, he only has to sell one innocent that can easily be killed later. He doesn't get caught in the confirming more townies than scum can kill loop.

I was thinking we should give him one night and decide what to do with him later, but this is a good point. I'd like to hear more discussion on this.

First, he says he thinks the votes on ender are "ridiculous", but later on(when there's a wagon) he votes ender for including possibilities of javert being town, which as I have said multiple times, even though there are more possibilities of him being town, doesn't mean he is. The one where he's scum could still be more probable.

For the first point, my point was that Oso's case on ender was too thin and too dependant on EA being scum when the EA case was bad. That's a far cry from "he says he thinks the votes on ender are 'ridiculous'". The second point indicates that you're not understanding my case.

indeed, NE has gone under the radar for too long

I'm fine with this wagon. My vote on Javert is utterly redundant anyways now that his wagon is gone and he's claimed :/

VOTE: NE

Twistedspoon is still active lurking for the most part and he's now sheeping Me=Weird's terrible vote on bad reasoning. I'm not "under the radar" just because I don't post as much as some people.
UNVOTE: VOTE: Twistedspoon

[Klazam]

(Posting in all my games)

Sorry for the inactivity.

I'll post tonight, in order of deadlines.

[farside22]

why not? Or would you rather I did it?

Bad grammar and interruptions galore FTW.
I meant to say I don't know if there is any truth to this and it is worth looking into.
I just need to find time.

I know I said I would get to this tonight but I slept like crap last night (little one crawled into bed and kept us up for a couple of hours) and I need to really look into a few players in depth.
This game has my first priority come tomorrow.

*Note:
This promise excludes Mod List duties and modding and is good for mafia games only.
This promise is for a limited time of 48 hours only

.

[Prosaurus]

@Prosaurus: Why did you ask ender to claim in post 197?


-----------------------

Sadly, i can only use it at night. Because i am going for Javert investigation, would it be safe to say that i would only be killed if Javert was scum? Or would the scum just kill me anyway to make Javert look suspicious.?

Here's a tip: Don't. First of all, him using his kill today would be enough proof. Secondly, He'll probably be night killed because of his claim.
I see no reason to investigate him unless his day kill is not used as promised.

These 2 posts make me sad for mafiascum.

----------------------

1) I was pointing out his soft claim.
2) Why may I ask?

[Javert]

Busy, anti-prod post.

Unvote: ender241

. I will think about the claim.

[farside22]

Going thru some research and iso's at this time. I need to get ready to leave so I'm putting my thoughts at where I am right now.

Klaz: I looked into a few of your games. I would like you to explain why you believe you have shitty day 1? The rest of Klaz is nothing to go on as it's V/LA and will post later.


ender: rereading ender in iso there isn't much to go off of. His vote on Prosaurus is meh. The situation with Javert is more interesting.
Unless ender/Javert are scum together I don't see scum saying this:

UNVOTE: VOTE: Javert Start answering questions, i doubt your a DayVig.

My problem is this:

Just vote him already godamnit! He's trying it on, it's like saying "I'm the bomb, the last person to vote me so i am lynched will die." Which is basically warning us off voting for him so he gets away with doing what he wants and noone can stop him, he can't kill all of us.

Why say he can't kill all of us if you don't believe he is a vig? That contradicts the previous statement.

ender claims one-shot cop. I've been in enough games that I rarely see a game without a cop and no counter claim, unless scum have a cop role which is more rare and usually in non normal games.

He also keeps egging Javert, which shows over and over he doubts the claim.
I'm not going to WIFOM the set up and base this on what is normal or I will starting feeling paranoid.

In short the claim trumps all else.

EA: Did you ever see an answer to this?

What do you mean by "Mostly a random vote, if you know what I mean"? That's a weird qualifier. Why'd you tack it on to your vote?

UNVOTE: Ender
VOTE: Klazam

I didn't see anything from Klaz. What is your view on Klaz?

ummmm I don't get how an RVS vote from ender got that response from you. Have you ever seen town let their guard down when someone says something like ender did?

Playing the newb card to defend not scumhunting is the scummiest thing I've seen this whole game.

UNVOTE: Klazam
VOTE: Prosaurus

Honestly I don't see anyone doing any strong reads at this point, but this switch from Klaz to a newb looks like a let me switch for weak reason vote, then finding scum.
Then after questioning Pro

Similarly, I don't think Prosaurus's claim to not mind being dayvigged is likely a gambit, so I'm leaning town on him too. Not as sure as I am with Ender, but I definitely want to move my vote now.

Really?! I mean why do you think someone who is newb would do a gambit like that in the first place? Why does it take a few questions to determine this?
I feel like EA gives in to things without delving further into his suspicion. He makes one argument, someone counters he goes to the next person. Maybe it's because if something or someone gives me scum vibes or find their actions to be scummy I will fight harder.
But his vote from Klaz to Pro to NE gives me pause. Klaz never answered, many people seem to find difficultly in this game and the how newbie card comment from EA looks forced.
Leaning scum

Maxous: This is a hard one. I had a gut moment of town early on. He's not posting enough to really get a good read on him. Maxous: Can you do a break down on your views of the players in the game?
His post in regards to EA/Ender was something said by many (I don't think EA as much as ender).
I have another issue, but I want Maxous to give me his views before I go further. I hate to have a gut check turn into questionable but that is where I'm at right now.

My vote on ender is pointless.

unvote:
vote: EA

[Oso]

Checking in to let you folks know I am still here and haven't flaked. I do plan on posting tonight but it may be after everone has called it night (depending on your timezone I guess)

[Rhinox]

@:Rhinox: Why is Ender an "easy target"?
And who are the scum that are speculating on his role?(in your opinion)

He just reads as that typical scummy looking townie in every game that is easy to attack and doesn't defend himself well. Easy for scum to go after. Low hanging fruit. My vote should tell you who I suspect for speculating.

In general, those were a couple weak questions IMO. Why did you ask them?

[Maxous]

@Rhinox: Because you called Ender an 'easy target' for scum to go after, but you never said who the scum are. Who is the opportunistic mafia?
TS was'nt voting for him(I think?)

Maxous: Can you do a break down on your views of the players in the game?

...I'll get started it then >_>

[Necessary Evil]

Missed these from last time:

Why would ender make an excuse for Javert?

Sorry, I was referring to EA making an excuse for Ender

Okay, same question. Why would EA make excuses for ender?

For the record, I think Javert should shoot whoever he wants. I don't think shooting whoever gets the most votes is the correct way to play a vig.

Why is that not the correct way to do it?

Let's just say that I don't have much faith in the democratic process. A vig can kill whomever they think is scum without having to convince a majority of players. Really the best way to play a vig is to kill problem players like VIs, lurkers, etc. It sounds like that's what Javert is planning on doing anyway.

I don't really have anything to say about the new content. What happened to all that activity we've been getting?

[Maxous]

Missed these from last time:

Why would ender make an excuse for Javert?

Sorry, I was referring to EA making an excuse for Ender

Okay, same question. Why would EA make excuses for ender?

Because they're mafia partners.
I tried to make that thought clear earlier: Defending each-other. Teaming up on Prosaurus etc.

Still working on this summary ^_^
....
=(

[Juls]

On some medication that has made me very tired and haven't been up to reading. The good news is, I only have 2 more days on it. I will try to catch up tomorrow or Friday at the latest. Headed to bed.

[Maxous]

Okay I decided to do a brief low-down on players.

Oso - Seems the most town, was'nt afraid to make early speculative accusations, is being quite helpful and balanced..yeah

Farside - Seems genuine in her attempts to scumhunt. Seen nothing suspicious off her really..I would think town.

Klazam - :/

Juls - Can't really figure her out yet.

Prosaurus - Has'nt said much in terms of content, but I think he's fine. He seems to be trying to help and does'nt seem to be lying in his posts. (Plus there is my distrust of the people who suspected him)

TwistedSpoon - Again not a great amount in terms of content. I thought he was trying too hard to look pro-town, with the X is bad for the town, Y is good for the town, stick to the guidelines etc. I'm beginning to think that is just the way he is though. I would say he also looks fine.
(Although I want to know why he voted NE)

Neccesary Evil - Seems to be making a genuine effort to question and find mafia, I don't agree with the case on him. Lean town at the moment I guess..

Me=Weird - Pretty much the same as above as Neccesary Evil.

Rhinox - I get a bad vibe from his posts in general. I find it ironic that he calls Ender the 'easy target' when his fos' have included Twistedspoon and Prosaurus. Gun to head, he would be my pick for No.3

I have (hopefully) explained my position on EA and Ender

Incidentally I found this during the re-read

. So at best its null for now, but I'll be watching to see how they continue to interact with each other.

This was in reference to EA and Ender.

@Rhinox: So, what do you think of thier interactions with each-other so far in this game?

[Maxous]

Oh I forgot Javert...I think he is town, I see no reason not to beleive his claim and his initial suspicion on Ender was reasonable.
He was suspected because he did'nt answer what he saw as pointless questions.(which fitted in with his 'blood from a turnip' comment previously)

[Erratus Apathos]

As for scum being more worried about a dayvig claim, that's exactly my point! Why would scum see a player claim dayvig, and decide that it would be a fantastic idea to get into a gigantic fight with that player? Ender is clearly not worried about that! Hence, towntell.

He looked like he panicked to me, calling for everyone to just vote him already

Pffft. Ender wasn't panicked, he was frustrated. I guarantee it.

Look at 138: "Start answering questions, i doubt your a DayVig." Ender used the D word. No not dayvig, the other one. Doubt. He

doubts

Javert is a dayvig. Not he's completely certain Javert isn't one. There's really no inconsistency here.

Twice, Ender said that he was certain that Javert was bluffing.

Yeah, he thought Javert was bluffing, AFTER HE TOLD JAVERT TO VIG HIM AND JAVERT REFUSED. That is a completely different circumstance that happened well after the point I'm talking about here.

I considered voting Klazam too, but there's a better way of dealing with him: Hey Javert, you said you'd vig someone for 4 days without content?

Well Klazam has gone the entire game without content

, so you know what to do.

Calling for Klazam to be day-vigged because he is busy? Not because Klazam is scummy?
Now I'm more confident about my read on EA.
Really comes across as a mafia comment.

No, Klazam is scummy. Guess what alignment stands to gain from not posting any content ever? Hint: it's not town!

No. I would agree if he were active lurking but he is not existing at all. There is no reason to vig him unless he has a replacement that gives us a reason to think he is scummy.

No, he is existing. He pops up every two days or so to remind us all he still exists. While posting no content. That is an excellent reason to vig him.

Actually, he said anyone who didn't post content for 4 days is

in the running.

Fair enough. Klazam being in the running for vigbullets is great.

Didn't I mention earlier that going after lurkers is a good way to look useful without doing anything?

Yeah, you did mention that, and then I ignored it because it was fucking stupid.

EA: Did you ever see an answer to this?

What do you mean by "Mostly a random vote, if you know what I mean"? That's a weird qualifier. Why'd you tack it on to your vote?

UNVOTE: Ender
VOTE: Klazam

I didn't see anything from Klaz. What is your view on Klaz?

No, I did not see an answer to that. Like I've been saying, Klazam is a scummy lurker and the fact that he has yet to answer even questions from just out of the RVS makes this fact amazingly evident.

ummmm I don't get how an RVS vote from ender got that response from you. Have you ever seen town let their guard down when someone says something like ender did?

No, I haven't. It was never more than a theory.

Honestly I don't see anyone doing any strong reads at this point, but this switch from Klaz to a newb looks like a let me switch for weak reason vote, then finding scum.

Okay, so where should I have been searching for scum, if not Prosaurus? I sure as hell didn't see anywhere better!

Really?! I mean why do you think someone who is newb would do a gambit like that in the first place? Why does it take a few questions to determine this?

Because Prosaurus had only made one lousy contextless "I don't mind being vigged" post at the time. That's really unconvincing, and I can prove it:

Hey Javert, vig me.

Am I confirmed town now that I've said that? Like hell I am! And yet that's

exactly

what you're suggesting I should have done with regard to Prosaurus: saw one post suggesting Javert vig him with no context and assumed that the only possible motive is that he is town. Is it really that hard to believe that I didn't jump to that conclusion?

As for why I eventually decided he wasn't gambiting, that was due to 152:

And is there a reason why I should care about being Day Killed? I don't see one.

The attitude he showed in this post is what convinced me he was for-realsies.

I feel like EA gives in to things without delving further into his suspicion. He makes one argument, someone counters he goes to the next person. Maybe it's because if something or someone gives me scum vibes or find their actions to be scummy I will fight harder.

Yes, I do move on when someone proves me wrong,

and I'm proud of it

! Continuing to fight for a case that's been proven wrong is stupid, and I honestly have no idea why so many players love tunneling so damn much, but I refuse to be one of those players. If you want to call that vote hopping, then I'm the goddamn Easter bunny.

indeed, NE has gone under the radar for too long

I'm fine with this wagon. My vote on Javert is utterly redundant anyways now that his wagon is gone and he's claimed :/

VOTE: NE

Oh yeah, Twistedspoon is totally scum. Look at his posts between his Javert vote and his unvote. He doesn't attack Javert, he doesn't question Javert, he doesn't push the Javert wagon, he's doesn't do a single damn thing to Javert. He accomplished three things with his Javert vote, and those things were VOTE PARK, VOTE PARK, AND VOTE PARK. He was vote parking on Maxous earlier too, and he's already looking like he's vote parking on NE. I suggest we park a noose around Twistedscum's neck.

[Klazam]

I'm here.

/end procrasination

I promise that i'm reading the game now, and will post ASAP

[Rhinox]

I suggest we park a noose around Twistedscum's neck.

Agreed.


@Maxous: PATIENCE! lets take care of obv scum twistedspoon first, then we can work out which one of {

Javert

, Oso, farside22, Me=Weird, Necessary Evil} were scum on the easy to wagon ender. EA and ender are both town btw.

Question for you - why do the actions you are accusing EA and ender of make them scummy? In my experience, those things are not really things I see scum partners do, like, ever.

[Prosaurus]

I'm here.

/end procrasination

I promise that i'm reading the game now, and will post ASAP

Heh. You come back right when we're thinking of day vigging you. Perfect timing?

@EA You seem to be defending Ender alot. Mind to post your main reasons you think he's town?

[Prosaurus]

I suggest we park a noose around Twistedscum's neck.

Agreed.

---
@Maxous: PATIENCE! lets take care of obv scum twistedspoon first, then we can work out which one of {

Javert

, Oso, farside22, Me=Weird, Necessary Evil} were scum on the easy to wagon ender. EA and ender are both town btw.
---
Question for you - why do the actions you are accusing EA and ender of make them scummy? In my experience, those things are not really things I see scum partners do, like, ever.

1) Why? He's doing about as much as I am.
2) EA+Ender+Rhinox seem to be banding together. 3 people. Hmmmmm...
3) If they are both scum, maybe they'd do that because they know it's uncommon and won't be suspected.

[ender241]

I don't know why, but i have a good feeling Prosaurus is scum. I have no reason for this so i will not vote him though but i am noting that because if i get one of those in another game then i can detect scum.
@Prosaurus - I find it interesting that earlier you said you were a newbie, your playing alot better than a newbie you know?

[Erratus Apathos]

@EA You seem to be defending Ender alot. Mind to post your main reasons you think he's town?

Cause his angry reaction to Javert's claim is totally legitimate, and it's not how scum would react to that claim.