Mini Normal 1874: Camping Trip Mafia (Game Over)


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Post Post #1000 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:44 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

:shifty:
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #1001 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:46 am

Post by Nadpool »

Nadpool would like to thank our mod for excellent work.

Nadpool loves games where town finds each other.

Nadpool has no regerts over lynching KNPD.

Nadpool is surprised that Nadpool was the NK.
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Post Post #1002 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:51 am

Post by SensFan »

In post 1001, Nadpool wrote:Nadpool is surprised that Nadpool was the NK.
I reasoned that I needed to take a big risk to win from that position. If I killed matt, I was getting lynched 100% in the next couple days. May as well make a weird kill to try and get the Town to WIFOM it's way into a mistake.
(11:04:10 PM) senspizzaline: That's actually my bold prediction for the year
(11:04:19 PM) senspizzaline: Miami finishes 2nd in the AFCE.
(11:05:35 PM) jhawk01b: my bold prediction for the year is that whoever wins the NFC West will have a winning record
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Post Post #1003 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:03 am

Post by SensFan »

LOL.
(11:04:10 PM) senspizzaline: That's actually my bold prediction for the year
(11:04:19 PM) senspizzaline: Miami finishes 2nd in the AFCE.
(11:05:35 PM) jhawk01b: my bold prediction for the year is that whoever wins the NFC West will have a winning record
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Post Post #1004 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:12 am

Post by SensFan »

Say what you will about my play (and it was bad). I didn't lie about my role as Town, and I didn't lie about my experience.
(11:04:10 PM) senspizzaline: That's actually my bold prediction for the year
(11:04:19 PM) senspizzaline: Miami finishes 2nd in the AFCE.
(11:05:35 PM) jhawk01b: my bold prediction for the year is that whoever wins the NFC West will have a winning record
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Post Post #1005 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:38 am

Post by Fykus »

Thanks for the game guys, I apologise for the bad decision making on my part (lynching the pr, hammering myself etc) but I did honestly believe there wouldnt be more than 4 PRs in the game lol. If id have known otherwise I guess I would have tried to get myself lynched in sicks place. Alas, live and learn. Back to the newbie queue for me.
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Post Post #1006 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:49 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

@mod: please update OP for flips for living players; that helps people who are doing archive or stats analysis. Thanks!
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #1007 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:05 am

Post by lucca261 »

hey guys how it's going?

so, Matt, you WERE a PR. I knew it.

good game guys. whoo whoo.
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Post Post #1008 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:32 am

Post by Leonshade »

Thank you for all the kind words about my moderation. It was my first time as a moderator here, it was a learning process for me and I was picking up a lot of things as I went on. I hope I did well.
In post 1010, mhsmith0 wrote:@mod: please update OP for flips for living players; that helps people who are doing archive or stats analysis. Thanks!
Done. Thanks once again for reviewing the setup.
"I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Post Post #1009 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:02 am

Post by Fykus »

If anyone could give me some advice or commentary on my play itd be greatly appreciated
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Post Post #1010 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:03 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 1012, Leonshade wrote:...
In post 1010, mhsmith0 wrote:@mod: please update OP for flips for living players; that helps people who are doing archive or stats analysis. Thanks!
Done. Thanks once again for reviewing the setup.
I'm just glad to see that it is, in fact, possible for town to win a mini normal setup I reviewed :lol:
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http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #1011 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:51 am

Post by massive »

Fykus, did you and sickofit plan the cross-claiming stuff on D2, or was that his decision in the middle of the day?
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Post Post #1012 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:54 am

Post by Fykus »

No we didnt. I guess we winged it
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Post Post #1013 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:55 am

Post by mattblackguy »

I think Sick fucked up and was trying to make his results match up with Fykus' results.
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Post Post #1014 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:59 am

Post by TwoFace »

In post 1010, mhsmith0 wrote:
In post 1012, Leonshade wrote:...
In post 1010, mhsmith0 wrote:@mod: please update OP for flips for living players; that helps people who are doing archive or stats analysis. Thanks!
Done. Thanks once again for reviewing the setup.
I'm just glad to see that it is, in fact, possible for town to win a mini normal setup I reviewed :lol:
Had scum not screwed themselves town probably would have lost:P
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Post Post #1015 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:00 am

Post by mattblackguy »

GG everyone. I had fun with you all. Props to TwoFace, and Inno for nailing scum quickly on day 1. Also enjoyed playing with you BlackVoid and hope we can play again sometime. This is my first time I got to gamesolve with another townie and it was really fun :D Most of the time I'm getting scumread and trying to convice townies to work with me and get lynched anyway. It was a nice change :p

Yeah Lucca I didn't believe Fykus was a jailkeeper because I was a doctor, and because of have scummy he was acting in general. I didn't claim because I knew it was possible for their to be a jailkeeper, and doctor in the same setup, and didn't think it was worth it day 1. Why did you replace though? You were one of the players I was looking forward to playing with this game.
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Post Post #1016 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:01 am

Post by mattblackguy »

In post 1014, TwoFace wrote:Had scum not screwed themselves town probably would have lost:P
If the scumteam was something like you, BV, and Innocent then yeah probably :D
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Post Post #1017 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:02 am

Post by mattblackguy »

Also thanks for modding Leon. Your flavor was great all game and really enjoyed it. Really surprised that this is your first modded game on this site because you were on top of everything.
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Post Post #1018 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:08 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 1014, TwoFace wrote:
In post 1010, mhsmith0 wrote:
In post 1012, Leonshade wrote:...
Done. Thanks once again for reviewing the setup.
I'm just glad to see that it is, in fact, possible for town to win a mini normal setup I reviewed :lol:
Had scum not screwed themselves town probably would have lost :P
FWIW, my reviewer meta of late seems to be that scum win while complaining about the setup being townsided :lol:
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #1019 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:22 am

Post by TwoFace »

In post 1016, mattblackguy wrote:
In post 1014, TwoFace wrote:Had scum not screwed themselves town probably would have lost:P
If the scumteam was something like you, BV, and Innocent then yeah probably :D
That would be an awesome team
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Post Post #1020 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:23 am

Post by TwoFace »

In post 1018, mhsmith0 wrote:
In post 1014, TwoFace wrote:
In post 1010, mhsmith0 wrote:
In post 1012, Leonshade wrote:...
Done. Thanks once again for reviewing the setup.
I'm just glad to see that it is, in fact, possible for town to win a mini normal setup I reviewed :lol:
Had scum not screwed themselves town probably would have lost :P
FWIW, my reviewer meta of late seems to be that scum win while complaining about the setup being townsided :lol:
This was town sided imo so glad that didn't happen again
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Post Post #1021 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:44 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 1020, TwoFace wrote:This was town sided imo so glad that didn't happen again
I wouldn't really agree. Trackers are inherently mediocre roles, so a tracker and backup tracker isn't a huge deal (and town mislynching one of its PRs is something surprisingly common in mini normal games). Doctor improves the tracker role, but doctor/tracker is a strong combo in a micro game, but much weaker in a mini game where PR shots missing entirely is mechanically likelier. And the JOAT was merely ok; the JOAT rolecop shot hitting the roleblocker was a big boost for town, but that's swing rather than something fundamental (hitting either goon just says vanilla and there goes the utility of that shot).

Looking just at town's power, the roles themselves aren't fantastic, but they ARE coordinated pretty effectively (barring the JOAT horribly misusing the vig shot), which is where the roleblocker comes in. In mini normal games, roleblocker is considered the scum superpower; of all the normal roles that scum are currently allowed (i.e. not vanillaizer, vigilante, godfather, etc), roleblocker is the strongest by a substantial margin, as it can blast away at town power and shut it down pretty quickly.

OTOH, scum roleblocker pretty much has to be protected from suspicion and the lynch; in just about any mini normal game where the roleblocker bows out early (the only exceptions are where town power is mainly passive like masons, BP, etc), scum are going to be in big trouble.

I'll also quote one of my early posts from the review thread:
In post 11, mhsmith0 wrote:FWIW, 10v3 mini normal games with roleblockers have as a whole been pretty balanced, around 50% town win rate

Spoiler:
1794 town win
doc, gunslinger, cop
vs rb, encryptor, goon

1772 town win
doc, roleblocker, macho tracker
vs rb, goon, goon

1719 scum win
1-shot BP, mason, mason, doc
vs rb, goon, goon (very different game here, town power was mainly passive)

1715 town win
doc, cop, role cop, jailkeeper
vs rb, godfather, goon

1709 scum win
1-shot gunsmith, JOAT, role cop, doctor
vs rb, watcher, goon

1666 scum win
tracker, 1-shot BP, cop, 1-shot vig neighbor, vanilla neighbor
vs rb, godfather, neighbor

1662 town win
tracker, vig, doc
vs rb, goon, goon

1653 scum win
doc, cop, 1-shot vig
vs rb, goon, goon

1596 scum win
miller, doc, cop
vs rb, goon, goon

1527 town win
bodyguard, cop, 2-shot vig
vs rb, goon, goon

1514 town win
even night vig, cowardly gunsmith, cop, odd night vig
vs rb, godfather, goon

etc

In general, against a roleblocker, town has had at least one really strong power role, or multiple passives (like 1719). The JOAT isn't strong enough, and tracker is a middling town power in a 13p game.
You can pretty easily compare a couple prior games to this one that are somewhat similar setup wise:

1772: town got a doc, tracker (macho), and a full town roleblocker, and won
1662: town got a doc, tracker, and a full vig, and won

town was 2-0 in doc/tracker setups before this, but also had full useful powers (1772 was probably scumsided since town roleblocker isn't super useful) - comparing 1662 in particular to this one, town essentially trades a full vig (very very strong role though swingy) for a JOAT and a backup tracker

I'd also note that in rb/goon/goon setups, town frequently gets a cop (1794 is cop/doc/gunslinger agianst rb/goon/enrcyptor; 1653 was cop/doc/1-shot vig; 1596 was cop/doc/miller; 1527 was cop/bodyguard/2-shot vig). Here town's power was relatively diffuse, but I think it was overall balanced given how powerful a weapon scum roleblocker can be.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #1022 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:46 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

PS FWIW, doctor in particular can be subverted by roleblocker. RB on doc = doc goes nowhere, doesn't save an obvious target on the board and/or gets tracked to nowhere. Potentially an easy mislynch if played right and/or luckiliy by scum.
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http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #1023 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:05 am

Post by lucca261 »

I was (and still am) full of stuff to do off-site. I really wanted to play these game, specially on this crazy JOAT role, but playing two big games was taking a toll on me, so I chose to replace out from this smaller game.

But it was a really fun game to play and I was really active on the dead thread.

Such a
weird
game.

---

you wanted to play with me? I'm honored, thanks. really.
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Post Post #1024 (ISO) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:52 am

Post by Jaack »

In post 1009, Fykus wrote:If anyone could give me some advice or commentary on my play itd be greatly appreciated
I think a big help would have been being more assertive. You're D1 wasn't that bad tbh (although I wasn't reading it in real time which changes perspectives) but you kind of felt a bit aimless.

As for D2 and D3, just being active almost certainly would have helped. I was pretty sure that Jupiter was scum over you, but at the end of the day, it was hard for me to say you were town - there was nothing for me to point to in your recent play.
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