Mini 1895: Shaziro Mafia - GAME OVER

[MathBlade]

Were you intending to take me up on the offer (is that what the "speak of the devil!" meant??) or were you just changing votes?

Either way, I'm a frog of my word so

Unvote: IAlwaysWinSometimes

Vote: CooLDoG

fite me

So you're blindly following a player because they're not on the Con wagon, placing your vote on an equally weak wagon.

VOTE: DeathRowKittyCat

I don't mind that you're on a weak wagon (it's RVS so it's NAI), but i do feel uneasy that you think you can place a vote without committing any of your own perspective.

Hope that makes sense.

This is likely a scum bus.

[implosion]

it can't be a scum bus. DRK was a traitor, scumteam didn't know who the traitor was.

[MathBlade]

Somebody who makes jokes should have totally seen that claim as a joke

...sometimes people miss things?

in particular i feel like cooldog is the kind of person who'd possibly take something like that literally. This isn't from scanning random games, this is from having seen him post on ms for years in discussion forums. And i certainly don't think he'd lie as scum about thinking that it was legitimate when he knew it was a joke. it's mostly moot anyway. it's not a strong read.

Do you think he's scum lying about having thought it was serious? What is the scum motivation for lying about something so arbitrary when everyone else would obviously know it's a joke?

Two Face is obvTown. I really want to lynch implosion hard.

[MathBlade]

it can't be a scum bus. DRK was a traitor, scumteam didn't know who the traitor was.

Still reading here, but you're scummy as fuck in what I've read so far.

[implosion]

Somebody who makes jokes should have totally seen that claim as a joke

...sometimes people miss things?

in particular i feel like cooldog is the kind of person who'd possibly take something like that literally. This isn't from scanning random games, this is from having seen him post on ms for years in discussion forums. And i certainly don't think he'd lie as scum about thinking that it was legitimate when he knew it was a joke. it's mostly moot anyway. it's not a strong read.

Do you think he's scum lying about having thought it was serious? What is the scum motivation for lying about something so arbitrary when everyone else would obviously know it's a joke?

Two Face is obvTown. I really want to lynch implosion hard.

Are you implying that you think this post is me calling twoface scum? because it isn't. I did call him scum at one point d1 but i was never really sold on it.

[MathBlade]

in practice, scum don't generally lie about very overt things like that unless there's a very strong reason. i don't have strong evidence for that assertion but i very strongly suspect it's true.

if cooldog is scum i am quite confident that he genuinely thought it wasn't a joke.

Suggesting cooldog lynch here while allowing an if statement to backout.

Pedit: No I'm saying Twoface is town and that post of yours after is horrible and makes you scum.

[MathBlade]

@Implosion ur vote on ConMan was super poor. Even poorer to take it back by saying you now scum read him.

If you don't want him lynched, why vote? You're not being transparent.

I thought it was implicit in my not thinking he was scum. Early wagons are often a matter of seeing what happens with them/how the person being wagoned reacts/how others react to generate information. The second of these obviously flubbed because cmm hasn't been here and now there are no real wagons.

if cooldog is scum i am quite confident that he genuinely thought it wasn't a joke.

What if Cool Dog is town?

...then he genuinely thought it wasn't a joke by default, because if he's town then I'm assuming he wasn't lying about something like that and it doesn't really make sense to even consider the possibility of it imo.

My brain feels like mashed potatoes reading this...

[MathBlade]

@Fitz, Yup.

Implosion has shamelessly admitted to blindly following a wagon, not because he thinks it necessarily contains scum, but because he liked the players on the wagon.
It would also not be difficult for even a slightly self-aware scum to say that the vote was a pressure vote on a lurker. Therefore, I think Implosion is probably being honest, and he genuinely just sheeped town players as town.

What do you think Fitz?

This is horrible too. Superhans / one are scum as well.

[WhemeStar]

Mmkay.

I'll tell you what; I'll follow the first person to leave the CMM wagon onto whatever wagon they want, as long as it isn't on me.

This is scummy as fuck. I don't like this post.

DRK flipped scum

[implosion]

in practice, scum don't generally lie about very overt things like that unless there's a very strong reason. i don't have strong evidence for that assertion but i very strongly suspect it's true.

if cooldog is scum i am quite confident that he genuinely thought it wasn't a joke.

Suggesting cooldog lynch here while allowing an if statement to backout.

Pedit: No I'm saying Twoface is town and that post of yours after is horrible and makes you scum.

uh what
this is me explicitly saying the reasoning for a cooldog lynch (that he lied) is bad.
I say if he's scum he told the truth but that doesn't mean i'm calling him scum or suggesting a lynch; i call him town in other posts explicitly.
how do you get me suggesting a cooldog lynch out of this?

[MathBlade]

VOTE: user [/vote)

I just wanted to know, I didn't plan on voting yet. I don't feel comfortable voting right now because everything right now feels so subjective, like everyone's going off their gut and finding flimsy 'evidence' to support it. My gut is leaning toward cooldog but I honestly have no clue.

This.

Completely agree, Pepe acting like we're all set on lynching CoolDog, but on what?

My case or.DRK is flimsy not.going to lie.
UNVOTE:
And i take back my town read on Implosion.

Lynch implosion and superhans will all due haste.

[MathBlade]

in practice, scum don't generally lie about very overt things like that unless there's a very strong reason. i don't have strong evidence for that assertion but i very strongly suspect it's true.

if cooldog is scum i am quite confident that he genuinely thought it wasn't a joke.

Suggesting cooldog lynch here while allowing an if statement to backout.

Pedit: No I'm saying Twoface is town and that post of yours after is horrible and makes you scum.

uh what
this is me explicitly saying the reasoning for a cooldog lynch (that he lied) is bad.
I say if he's scum he told the truth but that doesn't mean i'm calling him scum or suggesting a lynch; i call him town in other posts explicitly.
how do you get me suggesting a cooldog lynch out of this?

If cooldog is scum >> To determine if cooldog is town or scum you need a flip. Therefore you are suggesting a cooldog flipped world and suggesting a cooldog flip.

[MathBlade]

Initial reads are scum in Implosion/kop/one.

[implosion]

well i don't necessarily disagree with those reads.

If cooldog is scum >> To determine if cooldog is town or scum you need a flip. Therefore you are suggesting a cooldog flipped world and suggesting a cooldog flip.

This is reading in to things that are not there.

[MathBlade]

Prod received. Was keeping brain-related activities to a minimum the past couple of days.

This game is terrible and I pretty much hate all of you except probably implosion because he's implosion and hopefully Desully I guess but probably not

WhemeStar wagon sucks, havingfitz votes are probably being wasted, CooLDoG makes me uncomfortable tbh but I'm more uncomfortable with the votes on that wagon than I am with anything about CooLDog himself. The rest of our votes are kinda worthless

I think that about sums up the current gamestate

Unvote: Superhans

Vote: Two Face

I believe that this is our next wagon. Get on it.

?? hates all except probably implosion...That's an odd way of saying things. And Desully? Let me look back at flips

[MathBlade]

Yeah I think that's a traitor crumb that implosion is scum with DRK. I'd be very shocked if implosion didn't flip scum here.

[MathBlade]

@imp - if a player intentionally lied in a manor to deceive everyone in the game. Is that AI to you? Answer and explain your reasoning

Wow, not a leading question at all!

First, no, I would not say that this is a specific enough action to be alignment-indicative on its own. That's an extremely general action. There are tons of different ways to lie.

To answer the question that you're obviously intending to ask, I don't think cooldog has lied. If i'm reading correctly the lies are:
1) the thinking the claim was real, which I've argued about extensively and pointed out that havingfitz

also thought it was real.

Did fitz lie too? Are they both scum for that?
2) the "premeditated" thing, where he says to wait for the vote-prodded response, then accuses wheme of only posting when prodded by votes. This is a much better point than point 1 actually, I'd say it's worth some amount of scumpoints for cooldog, but over my years on this site I have discovered and accounted for what was probably my largest bias: thinking that logic is indicative of town. It isn't, and the reverse holds as well: incorrect logic is not indicative of scum.

It's possible that cooldog set that up to try to make wheme look facetiously scummy, but (a) that's not a particularly strong way of getting others to agree with you because we'll obviously see through it and (b)

it doesn't exactly take a lot to paint wheme as scummy

. Wheme is a player who naturally obscures his opinions and it's very easy to push a case on him; there's no need for scum-cooldog to go out of his way like this. It's still possible and so he gets some amount of scum points for that, but it's perfectly possible as well that he is simply perceiving the game through a different lens that we are. Maybe he didn't realize that wheme had been posting earlier, maybe he has some other explanation; he hasn't commented since it.

To be completely honest, it's actually grating on my nerves to defend his point. I agree with you that cooldog's point here is absolutely terrible. But I see it more strongly as bad play than as scummy play. I completely see the train of thought and I don't fault you for scumreading him for it even if you are wrong. I've just seen too many players saying stupid things as town to think that it's as heavily scum-indicative as you're saying you think it is.

Too many words to say scummy play is okay. CoolDog does terrible shit as town but to try to say it isn't scummy is bad.

[implosion]

it wasn't scummy.

it was bad. it wasn't indicative of scum.

and i've mentioned this but drk and i basically signed up to play this game together bc we hadn't played mafia together in a long time.

[implosion]

i am not saying "scummy play is okay."

Cooldog's play was not "okay." it was very bad.
That doesn't mean it's correct to lynch him for it, if the play isn't indicative of scum.

[MathBlade]

WhemeStar likely town fruit vendor..

[MathBlade]

Sorry it's been some time since replacing in, and not posting. Not fully up to date just now, but from what I've seen, this is pinging my attention right now.

VOTE: IalwaysWinSometimes

I don't like his idea of wanting to direct Wheme on where to go, I can understand the logic behind it all, but it creates far too much WIFOM and it could create a lot more problems by doing so. It also strikes me as trying far too hard to be pro town and wanting to look good in the process, like he's actively looking for scum.

DeathRowKitty and kop tunnel on IAWS means IAWS likely town.

[MathBlade]

Deadline's looming and I like this more than cooldog.

I also don't actually have any solid scumreads yet which is unfortunate. just vague suspicion in several directions. Alas.

Unvote

VOTE: IAlwaysWinSometimes

Scums off the CD wagon here.

[MathBlade]

I actually finally have a townread on horror assuming cd townflip. I don't think he has any reason to waffle to iaws and back as scum when I already said I'd deadline hammer cd. Not sure what to think of him if cd flips scum, will take more thought then but if cd flips scum we should have a trove of info to look at in general so etc

Assumes facts not in evidence to likely buddy horror

[implosion]

mathblade i feel like every post you've quoted from me has several possible interpretations and in each case you've listed the worst possible interpretation.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: implosion