Mini Normal 1929 - Game Over

[MarioManiac4]

I highlighted those bits because I was responding to your case in the order of which it was written.
Again. Point me to some shit that actually discusses motivations and doesn't just pin scum motivations on things and I can respond to it.

[Mulch]

I think whymafia and Mario and awesome are town so let's Lynch Llama

[MarioManiac4]

i'm gonna have to ask you to explain that one mulch

[Mulch]

i'm gonna have to ask you to explain that one mulch

I can read u and whymafia well and awesome would have to be dumb to kill scorpy

[MarioManiac4]

i'm gonna have to ask you to explain that one mulch

I can read u and whymafia well

stop giving me sunshine mafia flashbacks

[MarioManiac4]

awesome killing scorpy would make some sense but he's generally town so i don't think he's scum
whymafia literally just spewed up a wall of confbias idk why that is supposed to be town
also why does scum!scorpious shade his partner for replacing out

[Mulch]

Whymafia isn't confident as scum. scorpious idk man he shaded me and whymafia mad much when did he shade llama

[Mulch]

Man if you want conf bias tunnels look at Llama on me as soon as I replaced

[Ircher]

​​

Day 4 VC #5 (Unchanged)

Awesomeusername (0) -
WhyMafia (1) (L-2) - MarioManiac4 (1724)
Mulch (0) -
MarioManiac4 (1) (L-2) - WhyMafia (1723)
LlamaFluff (1) (L-2) - Mulch (1689)
No Lynch (0) -
Not Voting (2) - Awesomeusername, LlamaFluff (1731)

Lynch Threshold

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Deadline

Day 4 will end by August 16, 2017 9:15 PM EDT or in (expired on 2017-08-16 21:15:00).

Moderator Notes

Have fun!
Deadline extended by 3 hours and 45 minutes.
I'm not counting the vote in 1733.

Spoiler: Current Voting History

Day 4

WhyMafia: LlamaFluff (1636) --> MarioManiac4 (1723)
Mulch: Awesomeusername (1609) --> (Null) (1610) --> LlamaFluff (1646) --> (Null) (1658) --> LlamaFluff (1689)
MarioManiac4: WhyMafia (1724)
LlamaFluff: WhyMafia (1633) --> (Null) (1731)

Spoiler: Previous Voting History

Day 3

WhyMafia: Alban (1553)
Mulch: Scorpious (1468) --> Alban (1557) --> (Null) (1564) --> Alban (1573) --> (Null) (1582) --> Alban (

1595*

)

Scorpious

: WhyMafia (1556) --> Alban (1579)

Alban

: WhyMafia (1552) --> Alban (1592)
MarioManiac4: Scorpious (1465) --> (Null) (1551)

Day 2

Awesomeusername: WhyMafia (1427) --> (Null) (1435) --> No Lynch (1436)
WhyMafia: Alban (867) --> Awesomeusername (1191) --> Alban (1223) --> Scorpious (1323) --> No Lynch (

1437*

)

Steel

: LlamaFluff (955) --> Scorpious (1325) --> (Null) (1410) --> Alban (1426)
Mulch: Alban (918) --> Scorpious (945) --> Alban (957) --> Awesomeusername (972) --> Alban (1006) --> LlamaFluff (1090) ==> LlamaFluff (1098) --> Alban (1113) --> LlamaFluff (1154) --> Alban (1156) --> Scorpious (1200) --> LlamaFluff (1267) --> Scorpious (1268) --> (Null) (1389) --> No Lynch (1432)

Scorpious

: Alban (1229) --> (Null) (1313) --> WhyMafia (1340) --> No Lynch (1434)

Alban

: WhyMafia (869)
MarioManiac4: Awesomeusername (1006) --> Scorpious (1244)
LlamaFluff: Mulch (961) --> No Lynch (1431)

Day 1

Awesomeusername: Scorpious (73) --> I am Innocent (205) --> (Null) (387) --> Vedith (496) --> (Null) (565) --> LlamaFluff (586) --> (Null) (597)

Vedith

: Carcalilly (88) --> Tchill13 (135) --> Steel (193) --> WhyMafia (455) --> Scorpious (459) --> Carcalilly (580) -->

Vedith (755)*

Lil Uzi Vert

(replaced by WhyMafia)

: MarioManiac4 (192) --> Steel (256)
WhyMafia

(replaced Lil Uzi Vert)

: Alban (460) --> Carcalilly (571) --> Vedith (588) --> Carcalilly (591) --> Vedith (727)

Steel

: No Lynch (127) ==> No Lynch (182) --> Lil Uzi Vert (254) --> (Null) (272) --> Carcalilly (279) --> Scorpious (419) --> Vedith (442) --> (Null) (469) --> Vedith (545) --> LlamaFluff (537) --> Carcalilly (570)
Io: Steel (67) --> Io (132) --> (Null) (164) --> I am Innocent (204) --> MarioManiac4 (365) --> (Null) (428) --> Vedith (618) --> (Null) (724)

Scorpious

: Lil Uzi Vert (99) --> (Null) (482) --> Vedith (587)

Alban

: Vedith (104)

Tchill13

: Carcalilly (129) --> (Null) (147) --> Vedith (231) --> Scorpious (437) --> (Null) (475) --> Carcalilly (592)

Carcalilly

: MarioManiac4 (78) --> Vedith (90) --> Lil Uzi Vert (102) ==> Lil Uzi Vert (120) --> Io (133) --> Tchill13 (138) --> MarioManiac4 (170) --> Vedith (298) --> MarioManiac4 (377) --> Alban (602) --> Vedith (695)
MarioManiac4: Carcalilly (66) --> (Null) (157) --> Tchill13 (174) --> Scorpious (176) --> Steel (189) --> (Null) (289) --> MarioManiac4 (340) --> Vedith (345) --> Scorpious (405)
I am Innocent (

replaced by LlamaFluff

): Carcalilly (69)
LlamaFluff (

replaced I am Innocent

): Vedith (532)

Dawn

Awesomeusername: MarioManiac4 (7)

Vedith

: Tchill13 (13) --> Scorpious (24)

Tchill13

: MarioManiac4 (49)

Carcalilly

: Vedith (15) --> MarioManiac4 (19) --> Scorpious (30) --> MarioManiac4 (58)
MarioManiac4: Vedith (4) --> Carcalilly (50)

[LlamaFluff]

i'm gonna have to ask you to explain that one mulch

I can read u and whymafia well and awesome would have to be dumb to kill scorpy

You apparently cant read them well if you are town. Im back to thinking not though.

If you are going to use "dumb to kill Scorp"... where is my motivation for killing him? Its a player who thinks I am town, who is not confirmed town, and other players are suspicious of. Going into F5... isn't that the exact player I want to keep alive? Especially if I was scum and knew there was a traitor, I decide to pass on killing what to me is confirmed town to kill the player who would be most likely to help win me the game?

I can see the kill from one of two mindsets
1) It removed my primary defender.
2) It was someone who didn't realize that is Scorp flipped, AUN is clear as opposed to AUN flipping leaving Scorp not clear.

From the first stance, you make the most sense from the kill. From the second stance, its WM or MM. Again WM over MM because Scorp was calling him scum.

Also I don't think you ever answered. Give me my scum motivation for

1) Gaining an extra lynch by keeping Scorp alive.
2) Trying to set up a tactic that let alban essentially act as a doctor
3) Killing the player who would defend me instead of killing the confirmed town.

Llama says in that post that they are 40% sure Alban is scum and is calling me scummy for hammering him. They even say their gut says Alban is scum. Let alone we were all in consensus agreement that he was scum, and even awesome gave me the OK to hammer. Yet I'm scummy for hammering?

This is horrible. Beyond horrible.

1) You would have had to assume that scum, who knew they would lose if they got lynched, would have put themselves at L-1 when you had intent to hammer.
2) If you actually read anything I was saying... you know stuff like

Gut it still really saying just lynch WM and force alban to target AUN as a safety net, reevaluate if needed tomorrow, worst case we just lose Scorp that way, still decent chance we end the game. As long as we have alban alive though, we force him to keep someone alive if he is scum.

I was saying that he was a good scum pick, but we could probably break the game if we kept him alive. I should have been more vocal on that, but you basically ignored me floating what could have been a force win for town when the previous day you were fine to go along with something that was just favorable. So get out of here with complete lies like that when a few hours before you hammered I said we should be using him not lynching him. I have zero idea how you can possibly say I supported that lynch if you bothered to actually read anything.
3) AUN has nothing to do with this, you are trying to deflect blame away for your choice. He also cross posted with you starting a "you know what lets not do this" line.

I almost would rather go back to the Mulch vote if it was possible. I want to think he is not dumb enough to hammer alban if he is town. Back to around 50-50 Mulch, WM.

@WM/Mario - I get lynched force Mulch to vote first tomorrow. It at least give you a win chance. His reason for voting me is "well I can read you well and *whine whine* he called me scum guyz". Seriously though, force him to vote first. Its essentially the same as you cross voting, but this way if he is scum you don't auto lose.

[MarioManiac4]

Meh Llama's push on Mulch was fine.

[awesomeusername]

Blergh, I dunno guys.

I don't want to lynch WM today based on Scorpious interactions. He's definitely conf-biasing though, and his case isn't very convincing. (although it should be noted that doesn't necessarily make him right or wrong).

I haven't had time to reread Mario as fully as I wanted to. Tbh he very well could be the last scum and that's why the other options don't make sense. I suppose that would explain why I'm still alive and mafia hasn't seemed concerned about me being confirmed town, since I've been town reading him. And he feels less town than I remember him feeling. My biggest concern about lynching him would I think be Carca's push on him. And he has some good spots in his ISO, but so does everyone. :/

Between Mulch and Llama, I just kinda think Llama is scummier. Mulch feels much less like he has an agenda, I guess.

I was going to vote Llama here, but I chickened out again. :/ I'll vote first thing tomorrow morning - we can't afford a no lynch. Probably between Llama and Mario, just by PoE.

So there are some definite problems with the Llama lynch, like reasons #1 and #3 below. I disagree with #2 because Llama was actually hedging pretty hard, not so much trying to set up shenanigans with alban. I feel like scum!Llama would realize how powerful watcher was, and that he would likely be hosed if alban protected me and I continued to scumread him - but at the same time, scum!Llama knows town!Llama would be all over that sort of thing, so he couldn't just ignore it. And for #3, I barely recall Scorpious interacting with Llama, and I don't think scum!Llama would expect Scorpious to defend him. Even if so, Scorpious didn't have that much weight to throw around. It's a fair point that I'm probably a better kill than Scorpious for scum!Llama though, even if I weren't clear.

Give me my scum motivation for

1) Gaining an extra lynch by keeping Scorp alive.
2) Trying to set up a tactic that let alban essentially act as a doctor
3) Killing the player who would defend me instead of killing the confirmed town.

[awesomeusername]

VOTE: Llama

I'll be online again before deadline if I need to hammer elsewhere.

[WhyMafia]

By god. Ugh I didn't have time to case Mario better. Llama is Mis-Lynch bait. It's better than no lynch though so I'll hammer before deadline, but Mario is scum

[WhyMafia]

Like I can't explain it but something about Llama is telling me he's town after I re-read his ISO
On the top of my head
Read Mario's interactions with slots that flipped town/Scum

[MarioManiac4]

read whymafia desperately struggling to case me because he knows it is optimal to lynch me today and bring mulch and llama to lylo

[WhyMafia]

That's bullshit
The same can be said for you

[MarioManiac4]

No me going into you is perfectly natural. Your case is full of bullshit because you feel the compulsive need to case almost every post I make, even when there's no tangible reason to suspect those posts.

[WhyMafia]

I'm referring to you getting my lynched
It's optimal for either AUN, you, or me to leave Mulch/Llama Alice
For them, it's optimal to kill AUN

[MarioManiac4]

i knew that

[WhyMafia]

Yet you start off by saying "No"
You're pushing me because to you, I'm being irrational. Irrationality does not equate to scum. You haven't even said how I'm scum yet. You're literally focusing on one point of my case to discredit me

[WhyMafia]

PSA
MARIO IS SCUM BECAUSE ASSOCIATIONS AND COASTING

[MarioManiac4]

i started off saying no because you were implying that i was accusing you of being scum for wanting me lynched which is inaccurate

[MarioManiac4]

Actually no, suddenly turning on someone and casing all of their posts isn't NAI. It's not a natural thing. It shows that you have an ulterior motive for wanting me dead. Whereas everyone else just coincidentally wants to do the move that would probably be optimal as scum; there's no evidence that it is intentional.

Also your alban interactions are like horrible.

[MarioManiac4]

Like there's so much I could say to defend Llama. He's just not all that likely. I could say the same for Awesome... and to be honest? I just don't see Mulch as scum.
WM has nothing. All he's done is fucked around, shaded me a little bit, and then shat out a case that looked at every one of my posts and tried to extract a scum case, often stating possible scum motivation instead of saying why it is likely.
I'm pretty confident my vote is the right choice.