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[Toranaga]

W/e still not a lynch for today.

For now:

VOTE: HavingFitz

VOTE: sergetacos

01. Toranaga- Not lynching today
03. WhyMafia- Not lynching today
05. Porky- Most likely not lynching today, although I want their reasons for scumreading me

@Porky

07. Thor665- Not lynching today
09. Chip Butty- Most likely not lynching today
10. humaneatingmonkey- Most likely not lynching today
11. havingfitz Misère----> Good lynch target
12. Sergtacos (replaces Creative)----> Good lynch target
13. Mulch--- Not lynching today, especially as if scum get lynched I become an inno child and scum are forced to nightkill me at some point.

this is the stuff mulch was pushing for on d4 after the skitter flip. both fitz and tacos are likely lynches as people can't really clear them for any reason right now. mulch pushing for them looks good on them, because he couldn't possibly afford f7, f5 and f3 alone sending fruit to NKs in consecutive nights like he did. too bad tacos was never too close to getting lynched cause it could be enough to hardclear him otherwise.

[Toranaga]

fair to say fitz is hardcleared due to mulch f9 spew

[Sergtacos]

Whats POE?

[Toranaga]

I already said

process of elimination

[Thor665]

fair to say fitz is hardcleared due to mulch f9 spew

f9 spew?

[Sergtacos]

OH xD i mean i thought you were just saying that, not telling me that POE= process of elimination lol

[Toranaga]

fair to say fitz is hardcleared due to mulch f9 spew

f9 spew?

yes, the spew from when we had 9 players left.

with skitter dead, scum!mulch could not hard tunnel a scum player to get him lynched because he could never lategame with it. the reason is, scum!mulch would 'send fruit' 3 nights in a row exactly to the NK, which would make him very likely the last scum. he'd also eventually out himself on town PRs flipping, as you said, for the unlikelihood all PR claims are town (as 5 is overkill in a 13er).

mulch absolutely needed mislynches that gameday, and screamed the hardest for the fitz lynch. so fitz has to be town.

[Toranaga]

^actually 4 nights in a row.

also makes me look good on f7 but -theatrics-

[Toranaga]

on f9 as well, I think there was a spot where mulch voted tacos when thor was voting tacos. a little farfetched to assume tacos has to be town for it, but looks good. tacos asked mulch why he voted tacos and mulch went like 'I'm just frustrated tbh'. didn't seem like a w;w interaction like many interactions between tacos and mulch.

[Toranaga]

you're also hardcore POE'd down if we are to clear tacos on the mulch interactions

If I'm hardcore process of eliminationed down then you're using poor logic or are scum.
So what'sthe clear logic that clears Fitz and Serg and not me?
I'd love to hear that explained without you sounding daft.

I'm starting to think a fitz/you lynch is the way to a win right now.
And I'm even thinking its not you and you're just being daft.
Which leaves me wondering why you're clearing fitz for scum reading you and scum reading me for no defending you enough.

never fitz

scum play at f7 is nonsensical if I'm scum. if I get lynched mulch would sent fruit between f7 and f5, f5 and f3 to the NK. it would be highly suspicious.

so no. terrible pushes.

[Toranaga]

you wanted to lynch tacos the entire game and now it's either me or fitz huh

[Toranaga]

@chip butty @havingfitz trust me this one time and lynch thor ty

[Sergtacos]

VOTE: Thor

[Toranaga]

Read list:

Strong town:
Lean town: Whymafia
Null: Havo
between null and lean scum: Skitter
Lean scum: Monkey
Strong scum: Mulch and Chip

Skitter is weird, i town read Robb however when Skitter replaced in, his posts been sounding scummy.

^

here, tacos is already voting mulch and then throws that line on how he was townreading robb and started scumreading skitter. this is extremely hard post to make as a wolf and holy fuck GOAT reads.

[havingfitz]

I'm here watching/reading. Mulling things over. :/

[Toranaga]

[HEM]
[WM, Mulch, Skitter]
[Thor, Misere, Fykus]
[MariaR, Taco, Havo]
[BBT, Tora]

chip butty's d1 is very hard on defending scum and pushing town, but in a way I find kinda townie. I like his tone and the above post he just has two scum as his top town reads, which I assume is a little awkward for scum to actually go ahead and post this.

[Toranaga]

I'm here watching/reading. Mulling things over. :/

ask me anything, I'm willing to work now

[havingfitz]

No questions. My earlier sentiments still stand. When I'm not on my phone I may respond to some of your declarations/explanations today.

Fun fact...you've voted everyone left in the game today (D5), including yourself, except me.

[Toranaga]

No questions. My earlier sentiments still stand. When I'm not on my phone I may respond to some of your declarations/explanations today.

Fun fact...you've voted everyone left in the game today (D5), including yourself, except me.

yeah ok

if you lynch me this gameday, I think you're clear, I think tacos is clear. chip is likely a villager. thor is probably the correct lynch.

this is different from my tacos scumread, I wasn't even reading the game when I pushed for that. this is based. you can lynch me and probably still win if you lynch thor next gameday. check the interactions between mulch and tacos, they're extremely hard to fake as two wolves together.

[Toranaga]

btw fitz it's pretty much up to you. I'm sure chip would vote me ahead of thor and ofc thor will self pres on me. I just ask that you erase my conviction on tacos and on to thor for f3. I wasn't reading, I was piling on tacos for a pretty horrible EOD scumslip post he made... but the interactions with mulch are very very good on him.

[Toranaga]

Things I dislike about Toranga/things I need them to clear up

- Tor respond to this please if you can

0.

The more I think about it, the weirder it is that Tor claimed under basically no pressure. They are a good player. They HARDCLAIMED (someone that has advocated for softclaims in the past) with...3 votes? From someone that is obviously good at this game? I unerstand that some people just crack but it's definitely something to keep in mind. Then again, unless they are scum with Fykus (something not too farfetched as you will see later in this post), their claim sort of matches up with him. Dunno.

1.

I know your an experienced player. How often do you see scum blatantly defending their scumbuddies to the extent that they are adverse to voting them? You know that mafia isn't that simple. 1381 you put me/fykus/chip as a scumteam and base it off the reasoning that it's that we won't vote for each other, while you know this could be that we simply townread each other and the odds of us all being scum together would be astronomically high and dumb af as well.

2.

1383- did you ever actually look at Skitter's actual words? It's so simple to lock someone town because of effort but I want to know what you actually saw in them in terms of analysis that you liked at this moment. It's weird to me that you would say this, and I thought you would be more paranoid about them maybe pocketing you against Chip, especially because they basically copied your exact reasoning in 1364

3.

I really, really dislike 1396. You said that because my Iso was "exclusively pushing town", you 1) shoulden't listen to me. And 2) You were ready to put me as a wagon "ftw." This is bizzare to me that you would take such a close minded principle and let it drastically change your reads. Also, how would you know Miseré is town? I don't believe in perspective slips but it's quite frankly shocking that you would make this presumption especially as you have been pushing them as scum all game. I think that it's possible that if Tor is scum then they spewed Miseré town.

4.

1401. This is WEIRD. they are pushing Fykus all game and then they vaguely hint at a role and now they don't want to lynch them. They were going at it with passion and hunger and were even saying "I desparately want to lynch them." My suspicion with this is that they had already build their mindset around pushing people for the Havo push, and in order to reinforce this they HAD to say "wow, we shoulden't push people who soft claim." because if they DID push for a hardclaim for fykus, which is what town!tor actually does imo because they were hard scumreading him, they would have to admit that the people pushing Havo early game weren't scummy. And therefore losing valuable leverage.

5.

Besides the role fishing (sadly done by town too much), I'm in shock at two basic ideas that they bring out that

directly contradict each other

. First of all, why are they building things on setup spec without even being here for any time... But here we go. Idea 1:

There are too many roles, so Mulch's item giver might be scum or else it would be too much power to town

. Ok, I can see this as a point of view. Its wrong (towns are stacked af here because they are so bad), but I can see it- 1407 btw. But THEN they also say... Fruit Vendor isn't an AI specific role. If a role is AI, it dosne't count towards town power. He's somehow pushing the notion that I am giving too much power to town to be legit AND that I am NAI in one fell swoop. He can't push me on both. It dosen't make SENSE. This is probably the most damning thing that they do imo. It literally cannot cross my mind how they can think my role is too much for town and also NAI for town. Side note: IF I am a fruit vendor, the sole purpose of it is to prove I don't do a nightkill lategame. So it literally makes zero sense for it to be a scum role. It's possible but it's like...not possible.

6.

1420 This is a lie/exagerration/falsehood. There can easily be scum trackers, while I don't even know if a scum fruit vendor has ever even existed. In fact, Giga's game had a scum tracker...

7.

At this point in 1421 Tor has said: I am a likely partner with Fykus. I am a likely partner with Chip. And (spoilers) they would go on to say that I am a likely partner with Skitter. I'm getting the sense they are trying to bullshit any reasoning they possibly can to link me as a fucking partner to anyone.

8.

1430 is a fucking hellacious reach right here. I've never seen worse reasoning in my life and I can't get into their mindset here. Make your own conclusions on this, I don't need to spell out how bad it is (let alone the fact scumslips don't exist). 1432 their confidence level just dosen't fucking match the situation. How can they be this fucking confident I am scum after changing it on a "whim" on reasoningg that I have "pushed town" let alone with a "scumslip" that dosen't exist. This confidence level is so weird relative to their words.

9.

1461 this idiot has it in for me and is determined to do it at all costs, even working with, at this point, someone they were SO SURE WERE SCUM that they called one of their posts a scumslip. Yet they are working with them to lynch me? Remember, I"m going to be a fucking mislynch. I get that working with your scumreads is fine to lynch a harder one. But a SCUMSLIP LEVEL scumread, and you think they can now be town and want to WORK with them? I don't fucking get it. And then 1465 they pander to ME to lynch Chip... and then have what is seeming to be a guise of "thinking" in 1464. Thinking of ways to turn us against each other, I think...

10.

^ Apparently that was a "reaction test". Cmon man...

11.

Somthing that just occured to me and they even brushed on in 1486... I'm not the only one that has been pushing on all town. a shitton of people had been doing it too, LIKE misére and Skitter as they alluded to in this. Yet they have been trying to find every possible excuse for me not to be scum and haven't' even considered it for anyone else. This proves they are confirmation biased on me, although to be fair town do that too. But it's another thing to just keep in mind.

12.

In 1492- how in the world have you identified bluebloodedtoffee as "clean." ? He's literally done nothing allignment indicative the entire game. Very null. As in, by definition null. This reeks of someone trying to twist a narrative to fit their point. And in a scummy way. Their reasoning in 1496 which dosen't even take into account the possibility of bussing and just flat out elimintes pairs by "they voted for each other" is super shallow...

13.

1504 makes sense to me, I can see where they are coming from. Pretty towny PoV actually, except for the fact that they are basing their read on Chip on the fact that I am scum (wrongly), which does 3 things- 1) endears them to Chip 2) Makes Chip want to turn against me because of qualms of "pocketing" and 3) Somehow manages to make it seem like I am scum again for peculiar reason.

Keep in mind: I am town. So every single basic point for Tor has somehow revolved around me being scum for doing something TWO OR THREE OTHER PEOPLE DID, and is trying to manipulate accordingly.

14.

Mulch is scummy. there are plenty posts of his where the tone is off.

Why haven't you brought this up beforehand? Why are you only saying this now? This is probably the second worse post they did because I have phenomanal tone as both town and scum. As town my tone is naturally good and as scum I've been called a sociopath it's that good. My tone is NEVER BAD.

They also in this post push me for the theory disagreement AGAIN and continue and continue to say that me pushing Havo to hardclaim is scummt despite TOWNREADING Chip right now while he did the SAME THING. Unbelievable. They are pushing me as scum while they hard townread someone who did the same thing. They are twisting their fucking narrative to accomplish their agenda. And incredibly, they are still wrong. It was the right move to force him to hardclaim, and I will never back down from this.

15.

1513 is sort of simple but I kind of like it. But... reminder that they called "lock town" to Skitter before. It's such a drastic change. Sure, they could change their mind. But "lock town" to "top scum" just isn't natural... I don't think even I have done that, and I change opinions more than anyone.

16.

They keep talking about the possibility of the mod conf-towning me as if it's a real possibility and they are AFRAID of this happening in 1540 and 1543. First off, why are they thinking this would happen if I'm scum. Second, why are they discouraging Tacos to try it? Shoulden't they be happy if I'm conf-towned? Why are they adverse to this idea and possibility?

17.

His push of Maria is pretty bad around these pages.

This a LIE and TOTAL BULLSHIT.

Third worst point. Lo and behold, look at this;

there's some good stuff in 175 from mulch. I like his maria read and it mirrors what I found was scummy of her back when she posted those things.

They LIKED it. Now it's "bad". No.

18.

also interesting to point out that Mulch is doing a lot of reading early on but never gets to read into skitter's L-1 vote on Havo.

Another lie.

I defended Skitter for this, I didn't ignore it. 661. 773

19

And finally, with the newest pair that Tor has manipulated into being with me (third time now in this entire post, and to top it off they haven't even voted me lmao even though all their scum pairs apparently have me in it? Probably because when they flip me they are gonna look bad)...they have uptmost confidence in it just like the others. 1571

fitz, just look at this. do you really think this guy was scum with me and wrote all that shit about me

[Toranaga]

My top scumreads are Skitter and Mulch, and I think there's a lot of evidence ITT from the 3 big wagons that support it. the Havo wagon had Skitter putting him at L-1, interacting for an hour and not unvoting after the softclaim, and then unvoting only after I left that wagon and moved somewhere to avoid capping. Felt like she was waiting. And then Mulch appeared ITT some 20 minutes later, when lynching Havo was no longer a thing, and went 'this game is moving fast!'. then he started pressured Havo super hard for a hardclaim, and voted him and shaded Maria for terrible reasons all around. if Mulch appeared ITT earlier, he'd have capped the loyal Cop with Skitter's help.

Throughout D1 Mulch avoided reading into the Havo wagon and kept shading other posters. A wagon starts on Maria, Mulch is hard pressing her, and then Skitter appears once again with the L-1 vote. this time she probably thought it was L-2, but the problem is she was townreading Maria! The case against Maria was extremely thin anyway, she just quoted some hedgy posts and went 'ew' and voted there. doesn't feel very real to me. and Mulch was the first one to notice Maria was capped, which I'm sure is >rand scum cause scum is paying more attention. the way he phrased it started with 'I think Virt fucked this one up bad' and then 'why did nobody else notice this' which doesn't feel very genuine.

who is wolfing with this pair, IDK. chip has equity, HEM has equity. misère has equity.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ come on

[Toranaga]

fitz I handed the game to town, the least you could do is trust me on thor now. you're scumreading me for really awful reasons. 'inconsistent' isn't scummy. game is long, come on.

[Thor665]

fair to say fitz is hardcleared due to mulch f9 spew

f9 spew?

yes, the spew from when we had 9 players left.

with skitter dead, scum!mulch could not hard tunnel a scum player to get him lynched because he could never lategame with it. the reason is, scum!mulch would 'send fruit' 3 nights in a row exactly to the NK, which would make him very likely the last scum. he'd also eventually out himself on town PRs flipping, as you said, for the unlikelihood all PR claims are town (as 5 is overkill in a 13er).

mulch absolutely needed mislynches that gameday, and screamed the hardest for the fitz lynch. so fitz has to be town.

I'll have to go back and look at that - but I didn't feel like Mulch was actually pushing much of either of them that well.
Also, I would note I just lynched Skitter - it would be daft of him to push me if I was town jsut as much as it would be daft to push me if I was scum.
So the logic here is very thin as far as I can see.

you wanted to lynch tacos the entire game and now it's either me or fitz huh

Yes.
And?

[Toranaga]

fair to say fitz is hardcleared due to mulch f9 spew

f9 spew?

yes, the spew from when we had 9 players left.

with skitter dead, scum!mulch could not hard tunnel a scum player to get him lynched because he could never lategame with it. the reason is, scum!mulch would 'send fruit' 3 nights in a row exactly to the NK, which would make him very likely the last scum. he'd also eventually out himself on town PRs flipping, as you said, for the unlikelihood all PR claims are town (as 5 is overkill in a 13er).

mulch absolutely needed mislynches that gameday, and screamed the hardest for the fitz lynch. so fitz has to be town.

I'll have to go back and look at that - but I didn't feel like Mulch was actually pushing much of either of them that well.
Also, I would note I just lynched Skitter - it would be daft of him to push me if I was town jsut as much as it would be daft to push me if I was scum.
So the logic here is very thin as far as I can see.

you wanted to lynch tacos the entire game and now it's either me or fitz huh

Yes.
And?

he was pushing very very hard for the fitz lynch. he was asking people to join him on the wagon.

aaaaaand is pretty inconsistent with what you've been saying and, unlike me, it's not like you did any work in the game to change your reads.