Mini Normal 1954: Iambic Tetramafia: Endgame

[EspeciallyTheLies]

There almost for sure weren't a second source of night kills, which is why I called BS on the doc and PGO claims.

Yes, even beyond how scummy the slot was, and the fact that it's not a normal role, this.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

UC Voyager easy town read. You can mark myself and UC off as town for the rest of this game.

This post was why it took me so long to figure out that ETL was a mason, btw. I thought IS had crumbed and was too busy patting myself on the back for catching it.

The fact that dunker was my "conftown" read on page 3 should have given you some clue lol

I was too afraid you were scum early on to drop any bigger hints than that, and I figured it was better anyway for dunker to lay low like he was doing, and if we could coast into LYLO it would be a slam dunk.

[CommKnight]

Yeah, go ahead and release Mafia PT, I didn't really have much in it besides some thoughts on where to go and post-lynch thoughts. Most of the chat is between Awoo, Transcend and the other scum.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I just /ined to mod a bread upick

i love bread

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Neighborizer and PT enabler are pretty fundamentally lynchable roles.

Neighborizer in particular isn't even slightly clearing, and a paranoid town can/should be VERY concerned about the possibility of a scum neighborizer rolling them (which basically happens every time you get a scum neighborizer lolol)

Yes, agreed, and this is

exactly

what happened here lol.. Paranoid town took TIAM's claim and stuffed him in a noose.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

3) A generically non-clearing role (neighborizer) who in practice will super nerf the insane cop since he'll be EVEN MORE likely to get a guilty that isn't really one, AND you get the realistic chance that scum will be guiltied while in a hood and therefore have a great excuse

And if the neighborizer'd had a chance to grab a neighbor, PT cop false guilties on 4 town, vs 2 scum, since traitor had no access to the PT, which is very negative utility and actually balances the town's power against the mafia traitor being so segregated.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

And scum neighbors and neighborizers just crush these games, so town SHOULD be very wary of a neighborizer most of the time.

I don't think I've played a single game with neighbors where at least one of them wasn't scum.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

TwoInAMillion LYNCH

taiho

, Wickedestjr, Dunkerdoodles, skitter30, Flubbernugget, ironstove,

Awoo

My guess in the mason PT about the first lynch was two on, one off. so cool to see some mafia theory working. if only i'd had the right two people

[mhsmith0]

And scum neighbors and neighborizers just crush these games, so town SHOULD be very wary of a neighborizer most of the time.

I don't think I've played a single game with neighbors where at least one of them wasn't scum.

It happens with reasonable frequency. Especially when you have more like a 2-man hood.

And of course if you have a town neighborizer, then it depends who they target

[EspeciallyTheLies]

And scum neighbors and neighborizers just crush these games, so town SHOULD be very wary of a neighborizer most of the time.

I don't think I've played a single game with neighbors where at least one of them wasn't scum.

It happens with reasonable frequency. Especially when you have more like a 2-man hood.

And of course if you have a town neighborizer, then it depends who they target

Yeah for sure. The games I've been in have just been lucky I guess

[Jingle]

The win really only shows that townblocking is real and can destroy games. Like, my DD read had almost nothing to do with the masons, I would have gotten there on ETL pretty damn quick, Flubbs is good enough to shout down his own lynch long enough for me to read him, and Wicked was a hard and fast townread from like P1.

Add skitters towntelling hard (despite my paranoia there) and it was gonna be an uphill battle for scum even if it were 10:3 mountainous.

As far as power role interactions, the only reason I was even close to town by role was cause I outed D1.
2 GOT LYNCHED D1. So it wasn't at all unreasonable for:

Lynch PR D1
Shoot PR N1
Lynch VT
Shoot PR
Lynch VT
Shoot VT
LYLO.

Which is standard for 13p.

Basically, setup was 2 masons and a cop vs 2 goons and a traitor with 4 millers and the traitor was investigative immune. That's... Not town sided. It's pretty easily balanced. And the masons aren't even inherently unlynchable. If they make it to LYLO you can paranoia argue a lynch on one of them in certain situations.

Not to say that your play or transcend's was bad here, CK. You replaced in after you were pretty much fucked. But that had more to do with the only people who were active early all being town and correctly recognizing each other as such than any power role interactions. Even if Tai had been full goon, there would likely have been the same result, just due to PoE based on town being really towny.

[jjh927]

SO many of the scenarios which make it balanced happened. Not only did Flubbernugget out himself and a mason (and by extension the other mason) in day 2, if he hadn't been killed in night 2 he was going to get the false negative on Taiho.

[jjh927]

Mafia PT
Mason PT

Have updated the links post but you can have them again here

[Jingle]

So... What you're telling me is that if you'd have told scum to shoot me like I told you to this would have gone on far longer.



Clearly, you should always shoot Jingle.

[jjh927]

I mean yes, if you were killed in night 1 by a scumteam that weren't stuck in a revolving door, then in day 2 we would be looking at 2 PRs down, the masonry would no longer be able to privately communicate, and the masonry and the only investigative would be all but known to people paying attention.

[Jingle]

HAHAHAHA! I DIDN'T GET KILLED BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT I WAS THE TRAITOR!

THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER!
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHHA!

[jjh927]

Scum would literally have been better off not even knowing about the existence of the traitor. And not just any particular set of scum either; none of the many pairs of eyes even mentioned Taiho as a possible traitor.


Meanwhile Taiho was on basically all the powertown lynchlists

[Jingle]

get shot by his own scumteam because "he was so town we'd never be able to get him lynched",

I mean, still hoping to get nightkilled cause it’s pretty obvious I’m an enabler at this point, but the game should get more and more playable as we burn through chaff.

Lol but scum don't get night killed

I have in fact been nightkilled as scum before. More importantly, my alignment is pretty clearly town here.

unless this dude is ic or something there's no reason to be dick riding him because every single post he's made is a mafia claim

Holy fuck. HOW DID THIS HAPPEN? Transcend was right, I claimed scum to the scumteam twice, and in a way that was only obvious to them.

[jjh927]

Jfc this perspective is only clear to me now that you've pointed it out.

While your brain was saying "Please nightkill me I want to die" your mouth was saying "Don't nightkill me because I'm the traitor"

[skitter30]

Subject: Mini Normal 1954: Mason PT

skitter

- at first, i really felt that she was town. total gut read; i liked the questions being asked. HOWEVER, upon ISO review post-flip, i see an early bias to TIAM being town, as if she knew he was town, and that prompted her to call the votes on him "easy" as a way to throw suspicion on the whole group of voters. it didn't click at the time, but now knowing it changes how it looks. especially considering there were only two people voting him at the time - taiho, who voted because he didn't like that two wrote something along the lines of "woo double wagons" and me, who voted him for tonal variance and being generally full of himself, which indicated to me hidden knowledge and satisfaction in it. obviously i was wrong, but the point is, she said that on PAGE 5. when there was literally nothing better besides maybe her own wagon. but somehow the counterwagon to HERSELF was "opportunistic"? i know she asked me some lazy questions, but i wonder if she actively engaged those voters (me and taiho) in better ways. if she just threw that out there and then didn't chase it down, that would be more evidence against her. this is a more complicated read i think, mostly because there are pieces there that feel town and pieces that feel scummy.

I didn't really know how to explain the Two thing better. He's sketchy as town. He has a meta of looking scummy as town. So I don't think that looking scummy the way he did here is AI if I can point to him making similar posts and having similar exchanges elsewhere as town. A lot of it was bad. A lot of it was scummy looking. But he does that as town, so I don't know if being bad or scummy makes him scum. Like, imo, being that scummy as town is almost null because he's *always* that scummy as town.

Another way I can try to figure out his alignment is to look at the pushes on him. If I were scum, that's probably one of the first places I'd look to push a mislynch. So bad votes and bad pushes on him might imply that people were looking for an easy mislynch. Tai's vote was opportunistic, based on almost nothing, and was never re-evaluated. She never commented on it again after making it. I don't really know how to explain 'oppurtunistic' better - her vote and the fact that it stayed on him felt wrong in the gamestate, and is exactly where I'd expect scum to votepark because they can point to all of his sketchy behavior as a reason for why they're voting him. It's just, I dunno, lazy, and is just kinda an out for taking other, more controversial stances. Like I've seen scum doing it a lot, but I can't really explain just why I feel it's bad. The fact that the counterwagon was myself didn't really have much to do with why I thought it was opportunistic.

I thought your push was bad because you were basing a lot of it on meta when I can point to numerous instances of him doing the exact same thing as town in other games, so his meta doesn't back the claim that his behavior makes him scum.

[skitter30]

get shot by his own scumteam because "he was so town we'd never be able to get him lynched",

I mean, still hoping to get nightkilled cause it’s pretty obvious I’m an enabler at this point, but the game should get more and more playable as we burn through chaff.

Lol but scum don't get night killed

I have in fact been nightkilled as scum before. More importantly, my alignment is pretty clearly town here.

unless this dude is ic or something there's no reason to be dick riding him because every single post he's made is a mafia claim

Holy fuck. HOW DID THIS HAPPEN? Transcend was right, I claimed scum to the scumteam twice, and in a way that was only obvious to them.

In retrospect, this is hilarious lololol

[Jingle]

I can't even blame scum for not shooting me because CLEARLY I was the traitor. Transcend was bussing, and I should have just rolled over and let it happen for the towncred it got him from his POV.

This was entirely accidental, but hilarious.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Jfc this perspective is only clear to me now that you've pointed it out.

While your brain was saying "Please nightkill me I want to die" your mouth was saying "Don't nightkill me because I'm the traitor"

skitter - my push on two was legit bad. but it was all i had to go on at the time. to go from apathetic, "we've already lost" to one-two over is fantastic and i think a lot of it had to do with strong town players correctly reading each other. it's great to see that happen as so often wins happen due to role interactions which is less satisfying imo, for both sides. i think you were great and you were especially good at trying to communicate your thoughts which i really liked. i think you could be really strong if you keep it up

[Flubbernugget]

Town got mega lucky that the neighborizor was lynchbait

[Flubbernugget]

Also that I was killed N2(ish) because I would have considered taiho clear.