Mini Normal 1954: Iambic Tetramafia: Endgame

[jjh927]

Votecount 1.07

Killing for self-preservation
Perhaps does not cause one's damnation.

TwoInAMillion	L-1	taiho, Wickedestjr, Dunkerdoodles, skitter30, Flubbernugget, ironstove
skitter30	L-6	Lil Uzi Vert
EspeciallyTheLies	L-6	UC Voyager
Awoo	L-6	Jingle
ironstove	L-6	Fykus
UC Voyager	L-6	TwoInAMillion
Not Voting	---	Awoo, EspeciallyTheLies

The deadline is (expired on 2017-10-31 23:50:00) from now.

[TwoInAMillion]

I agree that scum may be in lurkers

[Dunkerdoodles]

I agree that scum may be in lurkers

great observation sherlock

[skitter30]

Hi Luv!

SKITTER:

The only thing I'm learning from this 1v1 is that we are both good at misinterpreting each other's posts. I'm burned out on confronting you directly, and nitpicking over little points isn't going to help me develop my reads. Take that however you will.

Meh, fair. I can argue minutia for like forever, but I get that it can be annoying, so I'll drop it if you want me to; I'll revisit after a flip.

So let's talk about something else instead. Who are your top two lynches today?

jic i got a prod.....

i honestly am having a hard time following the game. can someone fill me in with a breif and to the point summary of what has happened so far....

A wagon developed on Two, I didn't like the reasoning people were using, a wagon developed on me, Two claimed, and the wagon on Two is still a thing and most people seem kinda resigned to his lynch.

What do you think about a Two lynch? Do you have any scumreads other than ETL? Any townreads?

My reads haven't changed since you've opened up. I don't think they will.

Tbh, I kinda feel like the game has kinda stagnated, and that people are kinda around waiting for *something* to happen to affirm the Two lynch, or for some new wagon to develop, but nothing's really *happening*. Like, I look at the game, and I don't really have anything to say cuz nothing really happened since the last time I was here. I'm hoping a new perspective will serve as the impetus for discussion.

[Dunkerdoodles]

i think we should just hammer two and end the day

[Dunkerdoodles]

SKITTER:

The only thing I'm learning from this 1v1 is that we are both good at misinterpreting each other's posts. I'm burned out on confronting you directly, and nitpicking over little points isn't going to help me develop my reads. Take that however you will.

More on the skitter wagon, while it was still around, it seemed like no one was actively trying to get skitter lynched, since all the votes on her came from early posts. This could be an indicator of scum presence parking their vote in a safe place meaning: {ETL, NK15, TIAM}. I'm not nearly as confident voting this as I was, so:
UNVOTE: .

Alright it's funny how jingle said to comment on wicked, since that was the next thing I wanted to comment on.

316 was the first post that individually got my attention, because it just feels really safe and easy -- all his scumreads are lurkers or TIAM and I don't like that. so:

Wicked: do you still think this way? Especially considering in 393 you say you're not concerned about 2 thirds of your previously proposed scumteam. If not, who is scum now? If so, why do your other scumreads not concern you?

I really want to know at least one of the alignments of these two, because the whole interaction from 342 to 358 reads to me a bit like 342 "OK, here is the scheduled time to start bussing" -> 358 "OK, thanks for the towncred." In other words it feels a bit {fake? forced? scripted? orchestrated?}. I'm starting to get the feeling my read on wicked is really going to swing based on who flips what.

I'm fine with a TIAM lynch for earlier reasons. also damnnit i kinda wanted wicked to respond to this post before the day ends but V/LA and L-1 :/

even though he mentions he's fine the tiam lynch i feel like this is kinda a stalling post to see if an alternative wagon will form.
i don't want to get into pre-flip, but i think if 2 flips scum we can start here.

if anything i'd like awoo to hammer.

[skitter30]

@Dunk: I was actually thinking the same thing, and but I didn't want to get bogged down in a line-by-line nitpicking thing again.

@Awoo:

Here's the tldr version:

-> calls people out for my wagon being a popular place to park their vote based on my early posts, when you . . . parked your vote on me based on my early posts

-> now fine with the Two wagon, although you were (I think - you didn't actually answer this) implying a townread in 346

-> Once again not actually voting for the Two wagon, although you're fine with it (although tbf I dunno if you wanna end the day just yet, but you didn't give that as a reason for not voting. Last line of your post implies he expect the day to end soon with a lynch on Two; I dunno why you're not just doing it himself but whatever)

-> Awkward unvote that isn't followed up with a vote. Why didn't you place it on another scumread if you don't want it on Two for whatever reason?

-> Tbh like all of your interactions with Two sound like coaching to me.

[Dunkerdoodles]

@Dunk: I was actually thinking the same thing, and but I didn't want to get bogged down in a line-by-line nitpicking thing again.

@Awoo:

Here's the tldr version:

-> calls people out for my wagon being a popular place to park their vote based on my early posts, when you . . . parked your vote on me based on my early posts

->

now fine with the Two wagon, although you were

(I think - you didn't actually answer this) implying a townread in 346

->

Once again not actually voting for the Two wagon

, although you're fine with it (although tbf I dunno if you wanna end the day just yet, but you didn't give that as a reason for not voting. Last line of your post implies he expect the day to end soon with a lynch on Two; I dunno why you're not just doing it himself but whatever)

->

Awkward unvote that isn't followed up with a vote. Why didn't you place it on another scumread if you don't want it on Two for whatever reason?

-> Tbh like all of your interactions with Two sound like coaching to me.

agree 100%, mains points for me are bolded

[Awoo]

VOTE: TWOINAMILLION

Here's your hammer. If this flip makes me look bad at least I can say that I lynched scum.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

etl I assume we all missed it for the same reason you did but it looks like a good thing to make them squirm

VOTE: ucv

Maybe it's my inner awkward but I don't see that as being forced moreso than overly geeky

Stating your voting for pressure immediately reduces any chance of creating it to zero.

I also don’t think you can make that assessment about Awoo unless you know them personally. The latter part of being a little late to the game reads as trying to come off more humorous to me than anything.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

JINGLE. WICKED. YALL. IVE LEGIT FOUND THE FIRST REAL SCUM. Check Two's tone in this game: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=72708
other town games readily available as well.

TOTALLY DIFFERENT.

VOTE: twoinamillion

I don’t get it. Where’s the analysis? Why aren’t you providing quotes from that game to point out these tonal differences? Why does context seem to not be taken into account? Hard to acknowledge this meta case without any of that

[Lil Uzi Vert]

General question, how often making a dumb move like self voting in RVS is an actual scumtell as opposed to a weird/noob playstyle tell?

PEDIT:

You're acting like an arrogant "veteran" who thinks they can push new people around and everyone will just sheep them. Trust me that will not be the case.

Close, but not quite a real point. ETL, your reasoning has been weak as hell so far on every vote you've made. What I've seen from you so far is just a string of easy to make votes that you can later point to as "aggressive townplay" as scum. What is your motivation for this? More importantly, if you are town, what have you learned from this chain of votes?

PEDIT: I cant post because everyone keeps posting, literally unplayable

I don't see anything wrong with being aggressive. I have a history in my games of being town, and being town read, so I know what I need to do to catch scum. There is no downside to being aggressive early unless you are scum.

This is an outright lie. You’re often seen as extremely scummy on Day 1 from my experience with you and what I’ve heard.

Sorry for being late.
Skitter might be scum becauae every single game we have together is her as scum.
Dunk seems a bit off this game. Illpost more thoughts later

Could you go a bit more in detail on your experince with Dunk?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Oh nice, only one page of ETL accumulated while I slept? This game isn't going to be as hard to read as I thought. I liked ETL's 106, it feels honest.

I think someone asked why I was voting taiho? One of the people I've got my eye on. I don't like his opening string and I want to see where he goes now that we're game on. I cannot speak for 2mil or his vote.

Apparently I should've voted for you to be townread by you too lol

Don't like this particularly, it got my attention.

DD's string this game has been naked early reads. I don't know how easy it is to fake something like that, but ultimately I TR it since he looks like he's having fun.

91 town.

[a post by 2iam]

is all sorts of ick. Why do you want to form a double wagon on someone who still hasn't posted? Why is this a good thing (you're a fan of it?) and what info would you get out of it? And why on Fykus in particular, out of everyone who only had one vote on them at the time?

Also, I'm feeling like votes on Two are kinda opportunistic/easy? Like, he's blatantly new, and awkward and bad does not necessarily mean scum. I kinda feel like he's an easy place for scum to go at that point (ie I'm talking about Taiho's vote on Two). I vaguely feel the same way about UC.

Fence sitting detected. VOTE: skitter30 Like what, he's all sorts of ick, but it's too easy to vote for him? Usually when I (hear this/have done it in the past myself as scum), it's scum worrying about whether or not their target is too "lynchbait-ey" to vote for. Sometimes they make it real obvious and slip the word lynchbait into their post. Since I just read two conflicting statements, what do you think of TIM?

I’m not a woman but I don’t think ick is always used to describe something that is scummy. Could mean bad, could mean gross. I think Skitter was attempting to understand where 2Milli was coming from and seeing if the thought process if any comes from town or scum.

I also don’t think you can accuse her of fence sitting here as she hasn’t been unwilling to give an opinion on 2Milli for an extended period of time.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Glad we can agree on 2000000 though.

If you agree, show me with your vote. Otherwise, I would greatly appreciate some insight to your current skitter vote.

p-edit: UCV, I have a full time job and go to school full time, so that's really no excuse to come in here and flat out say you have no intention of even reading what we're all talking about, and yet have the nerve to think you'd be able to just jump in and have anything worthwhile to add to the conversation that's been going on for the last few pages... I've been able to contribute. It's 5 pages, not 50.

I don't have any obligation to let you slide for that, so, do what you will but don't expect me to be ok with you being lazy on page fucking 7.

Good. You’re active and care. Safe it for post-game.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

OHHH MY GODDDD

Why do these people even sign up to this site? I honestly don't understand it at all. They don't wanna play so why do they waste everyone's time and steal a player slot from someone who would actually contribute to the enjoyment of the game...

Dude, is this your first game in a while? Incase you haven’t notice, site meta has changed and complaining about it here does no one any good. Either shut up or replace out.

I've actually never seen formatting like that. I'm impressed and repulsed.

I love how ESL (especially the lies) has so far tried to be the town leader or something. He has been drawing attention to everyone, but it almost as if he is trying to avoid bringing attention to himself! He has very ineffective scum hunting tactics, and it makes me think he is scum!

Why is this AI? Do you think this isn’t in her personality to assume the role of town leader? If so, why? Walk me through this.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

stop townreading me it makes me less engaged
everyone that townreads me is locktown though

Find it hard to believe scum say this.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: twoinamillion

that's a scumclaim if ever i saw one.

why claim at this point? a bit of pressure from awoo and suddenly it's time to claim?

nope.

Why does he claim neighborizor as scum? I think scum are more likely claim a stronger role such as cop or doctor in order to try to live longer or draw a counterclaim.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

[CONSPIRACY THEORY] Hear me out on this, since I know a people have this slot as null - town and I don't agree with that at all:

My initial vote on taiho was because of his opening. I always scumread super-meta RVS posts like *insert joke here*, since they are by nature defensive instead of aggressive. In addition, they also read as over thought out by nature.

Spoiler: ?

If you really wanted to read why, here is why:

What did he mean by this? It's not easy to vote someone based off of something so meta, and for that reason I call it a defensive vote. Defensive since it discourages votes from coming your way as opposed to a standard offensive rvs post such as "I don't like your avatar".

But we're not in RVS anymore, and I get that, and my attention has shifted elsewhere. Even so, unfunny meta posts like that may be only indicative of humor style and played without a second thought. But here is the kicker:

:3 lately i've been trying to catch scum from their first vote, reading past game's rvs votes and afterward looking at the spoilers to check if i've been right.

This confirms my suspicions, you have put thought into your rvs vote. Meaning as scum, you would have been worried about your opening vote, and making it more likely you'd post something like you did.

-- So what is the reason people are townreading this again? I want to hear it especially from you, ETL, since I recall you having that read.


BTW: wicked / two SVS interaction not impossible here.

Explain this to me like I’m 5. I don’t get it.

hey dunk, you town? I think you might be town.

I'm iffy on skitter, but maybe its just superstition, im 80% certain that iron is scum though. That whole "im not gonna read anything" post and then the whole lack of anything after that is basically just scum saying im gonna lurk the entire game, deal with it. I think I was leaning town on tiam yesterday when i caught up while at the drs, but i cant really remember now. I think im town leaning jingle but he seems like a player you cant get a proper read on until later in the game. Plus hes apparently a town pr, though there could be a chance hes actually a mafia encryptor, but based on his actions thus far thats probably only a slight chance.

Ill keep thinking on it and post a bit more later if any of my thoughts from yesterday return to me.

How is lurking and not planning to do anything an effective strategy as scum? Not being present doesn’t help him control the game state or push mislynches. Just potentially puts a big target on his back if town start finding each other and forming a block.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I think Awoo is town. Don't agree with his taiho thoughts, but I see where he's coming from. In general, it feels like he's genuinely trying to figure things out.

Do you understand where’s he’s coming from Taiho? It read like nonsense to me.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: ucvoyager

what is this

Reading is necessary for town to win games. Not wanting to read is an excuse for mafia to be lazy and get away with it.

How about trying to get everyone to request for the mod to replace players you basically want to policy lynch instead?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I was voting tiaho, she started hard lurking. I didn't want to have my vote sit on the same person the whole day, so I switched to another read.

This doesn’t make sense. You are scum reading Skitter and her wagon has more traction. Low content posters or lurkers aren’t going to get lynched unless a game is in a serious state of apathy or there’s a guilty on one of them. Why did you think moving your vote would do anything at all?

All 3 are scumreads so I really don't need a reason to vote for one over the other. I just prefer to be voting for someone when making a case on them normally.

I highly doubt you scum read them all equally and even if you do, you always go with what seems to be more likely to happen.

Just for the record, see this game where I was town, was mislynched day 1, and the town lost.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=72770

Town loss that game because they didn’t lynch Mulch Day 2 and Danny instantly voted in LYLO. Stop lying.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

woah hold on a sec

"I was endgamed as town"

"town won"

hooooold on a sec

You literally can’t make this up

My point is this seems like a policy lynch and I'm saying thats a bad idea. I have a lot to contribute.

How can you say this given your reasoning for voting Taiho and UCV?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Tell them im town. Lol.

I’m finding this hard to believe

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I'm town. Lol.

We've been pretty stalled out with me wanting lurker slots to post more, 2 a hair's breadth from the noose, 2 slots other than yours which have done nothing much to be read on, and at least one more with subpar content. You're functionally replacing into a fresh slot (called it, btw), and there are a bunch of people I've questions of who have not yet responded.

We've had no significant motion or pushing since the point where Skitters and 2 were at L-2 at the same time. Other than me, we've had no serious wagons other than those two. I'm a basically universal townread.

I've hardclaimed that my death does something to or for all non-mafia-factional PT's (which I believe means multiple non mafia factional pts or something powerful like masons, friendly neighborizer or weak neighborizer in addition to some other PT based roles). 2 has claimed neighborizer, and I'm specifically not bringing up that that could be a partial claim which is the big impetus behind wanting to sort him tomorrow.

And again. I away!

Hi Jingle!

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Hi Luv!

SKITTER:

The only thing I'm learning from this 1v1 is that we are both good at misinterpreting each other's posts. I'm burned out on confronting you directly, and nitpicking over little points isn't going to help me develop my reads. Take that however you will.

Meh, fair. I can argue minutia for like forever, but I get that it can be annoying, so I'll drop it if you want me to; I'll revisit after a flip.

So let's talk about something else instead. Who are your top two lynches today?

jic i got a prod.....

i honestly am having a hard time following the game. can someone fill me in with a breif and to the point summary of what has happened so far....

A wagon developed on Two, I didn't like the reasoning people were using, a wagon developed on me, Two claimed, and the wagon on Two is still a thing and most people seem kinda resigned to his lynch.

What do you think about a Two lynch? Do you have any scumreads other than ETL? Any townreads?

My reads haven't changed since you've opened up. I don't think they will.

Tbh, I kinda feel like the game has kinda stagnated, and that people are kinda around waiting for *something* to happen to affirm the Two lynch, or for some new wagon to develop, but nothing's really *happening*. Like, I look at the game, and I don't really have anything to say cuz nothing really happened since the last time I was here. I'm hoping a new perspective will serve as the impetus for discussion.

Hi Skitter!