Mini Normal 1954: Iambic Tetramafia: Endgame


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Post Post #375 (ISO) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:54 pm

Post by jjh927 »

Votecount 1.06


No- 'evil' doesn't matter here.
The side to root for lives in fear.



TwoInAMillionL-2taiho, Wickedestjr, Dunkerdoodles, skitter30, Flubbernugget
skitter30L-5Awoo, Not Known 15
EspeciallyTheLiesL-6UC Voyager
AwooL-6Jingle
ironstoveL-6Fykus
UC VoyagerL-6TwoInAMillion
Not Voting---ironstove, EspeciallyTheLies


The deadline is (expired on 2017-10-31 23:50:00) from now.

Fykus and taiho were prodded. Not Known 15 is V/LA until Monday.
Last edited by jjh927 on Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post Post #376 (ISO) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:23 pm

Post by Dunkerdoodles »

In post 373, TwoInAMillion wrote:VOTE: ucvoyager
what is this
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Post Post #377 (ISO) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:24 pm

Post by Dunkerdoodles »

In post 372, Fykus wrote:
In post 174, ironstove wrote:
In post 164, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:
In post 161, UC Voyager wrote:i honestly dont want to read
Why the fuck did you join the game then!?!?!!!
I relate to this. I don't feel like reading either, so I won't.
How can you townread this dunk
i like his tone
and as i said we can sort him out later his flip gives us no info rn
now lynch two ty <3
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Post Post #378 (ISO) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:48 pm

Post by TwoInAMillion »

In post 376, Dunkerdoodles wrote:
In post 373, TwoInAMillion wrote:VOTE: ucvoyager
what is this
Reading is necessary for town to win games. Not wanting to read is an excuse for mafia to be lazy and get away with it.
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Post Post #379 (ISO) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:45 pm

Post by Awoo »

"Dammit, I want this guy to townread me and I'm not sure how to do that" in her interactions with me. Not in itself a caught scum, but definitely questionable.
Last time I posted something like this the response was "The whole world doesn't revolve around you.". Let me repeat that to you. I can see where you're coming from, by that I mean it's kind of like when vigs make a hero shot. I mean think about it, if I'm scum, I don't care if you townread me or not since you're dead night 1, in your own words.

I'm he by the way, but I forfeit my right to be called by that the moment I put on a female avatar.

Good night everyone :sleeping:
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Post Post #380 (ISO) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:56 pm

Post by skitter30 »

In post 343, Wickedestjr wrote:I completely agree with you. The only reason I called this weird is because I feel like, as town, most players (myself included sometimes) are slightly more inclined to suspect their attackers. So I was remarking that it's rare to see a town-aligned player town read their first two voters - from my experience at least. But if you are scum and Jingle/awoo are both town, then it would make more sense for you to town read them because you'd know that they are town. As I said before, this could easily just be your play style, though. I need to check your town meta at some point.
Fair enough. I haven't really gotten wagoned that often in my limited number of towngames, so I can't really point to a time I've town-read the first two votes on my wagon. Closest thing I've got is here. First vote on the wagon, and we got into like a five-page argument about him wanting to vig me. (That was an interesting game, right jjh?) :)

Spoiler: @Awoo, for 346
In post 346, Awoo wrote:1. Do you not? That's a role that town or scum can get. Even if my read is wrong it still points toward's jingle's role matching up, and implying he is town.
I said the following, so yes, I largely believe it:
In post 297, skitter30 wrote:I think I believe the neighborizer part - it's a really odd claim for him to pick out of a hat if he was trying to create a fakeclaim out of wholecloth to prevent a lynch. Like, neighborizer isn't a 'get-out-of-jail-free card' claim for a day 1 lynch. It isn't like cop or anything. It's also proveable, so I dunno why he'd claim it if he wasn't.
I'm noting that you initially neglected to comment on the claim, and then said the following (I added the bold):
In post 339, Awoo wrote:but there are neibghors and neibghgsdgfhghorizers as TIAM
is
.
You didn't say 'there are neighbors and neighborizes as TIAM could be', or 'as TIAM appears to be,' or 'as TIAM probably is'. You said *is*. That's a surprising level of confidence. You're basing your belief of the claim on Jingle's soft/semi-claim, but he said he *believed* Two's claim, not that he *knows* that it's true. *Is* implies certainty, and I'm not really seeing where you're getting that from.

Also, are you now implying a townread on Two? That's what I'm getting from
In post 346, Awoo wrote:
Even if my read is wrong
it still points toward's jingle's role matching up, and implying he is town
.
In post 346, Awoo wrote:Damn right I didn't wasn't 100% about putting TIAM at L-1. What of it? Also:
"there aren't really that many opportunities to get on a wagon without casting the L-1 or hammer vote" - Blatantly false. Why would you even say this? It just looks like throwing shade* without committing to anything, which is why I scumread you in the first place. I will concede that having a heavy vote may be indicative only of playstyle, but I want to know why you posted this. Do you think what I (attempted to) call you out for is really something scummy, or are you contradicting me for it's own sake?
'Damn right I didn't wasn't 100% about putting TIAM at L-1. What of it?' - you said you were willing to vote him in the future, but not then? Why?

'"there aren't really that many opportunities to get on a wagon without casting the L-1 or hammer vote" - Blatantly false. Why would you even say this?' - :facepalm: He's at (and was at the time) L-2. You literally can't get on a wagon that's at L-2 without casting the L-1 or hammer vote, unless you're implying you think people are going to come off the wagon, but I don't really see where you'd be getting that idea from; current thread discussion does not make this seem likely. Would you be willing to vote him if someone came off the wagon? Basically, I don't really get why you're saying you didn't want to put him at L-1, but said you 'intend to vote him in the future' while he was at L-2. I don't understand *when* exactly you'd be willing to vote him. Would you have been more comfortable placing the hammer vote?
In post 346, Awoo wrote:* Maybe I am using the wrong term here, but he's making stuff up to make me look bad.
K, you're going to have to back up where I'm making stuff up to make you look bad. (She btw).

* Two is at L-2
* You say you're willing to vote him in the future while implying you have a bigger scumread on him than on me, but keep your vote on me
* You say you don't want to make the L-1 vote
* I point out that unless you make the L-1 or hammer vote, you can't vote him in the future. I didn't expressly add in the qualifier 'unless people come off his wagon', but I thought that was implied, and there was/is little discussion about that actually happening, so I didn't really feel the need to explicitly state that.
* So I want to know when you think you'll be able to vote him in the future without casting the L-1 vote. And if people had come off the wagon, if you'd be willing to vote for him then and why.
* I don't see how any of this is me making stuff up
In post 346, Awoo wrote:but I want to know why you posted this. Do you think what I (attempted to) call you out for is really something scummy, or are you contradicting me for it's own sake?
I'm not even sure what you're trying to get at here. I don't think what you pointed out is scummy, but I'm pointing out that it's odd that you're calling me out for 'not committing to things' and 'your actions don't match your words' when you're doing the same thing, and I don't know where I'm contradicting you.

The tldr that I'm going for is that you appear to be willing to vocally support the Two wagon while showing reluctance for actually voting for it, and are saying that I'm making stuff up when I point that out.
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Post Post #381 (ISO) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:19 pm

Post by Jingle »

In post 379, Awoo wrote:I'm he by the way, but I forfeit my right to be called by that the moment I put on a female avatar.
Nah, I'm just really bad with pronouns. Call me out on it and I'll eventually remember (though it may take a few games.

RL took longer than expected, but you guys get probably 15-20 minutes. I'll see what magic I can work in that amount of time.
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Post Post #382 (ISO) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:20 pm

Post by Dunkerdoodles »

@everyone if you're against lynching 2 please say why asap
ty
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Post Post #383 (ISO) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:32 pm

Post by TwoInAMillion »

How about that I'm town
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Post Post #384 (ISO) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:43 pm

Post by Jingle »

Tai. Talk to me about Dunk. What is your overall read? What is the towniest thing he's done? The scummiest? What do you think of 61, 92, 108, 114, 191, 212, 226 in particular?

UC: Other than me, who is your strongest scumread atm? Do you still feel EtL is scum? If so, why? If not, who is?

EtL: Propose a scumteam involving 2 for me. Any scumteam.

Flubbs: Talk to me about awoo. Scum? Town? Buddying me? I'm nuts?

IS: You look like in your town games you get off your ass and scumhunt when there's actually content. Is there a particular reason you're not doing so atm?

Wicked: Do you have a particular reason for suspecting IS and 2 together? How are you feeling about gamestate and/or my paranoia wrt to the two lynch?

Fykus: I expect more from you, not in quality but in quantity, but your activity since you started actually playing is the exact type of thing I'm looking for. Is the IS bit policy or do you genuinely believe it to be scum. If the latter, why?

awoo: Tell me more about this wicked/2 theory and the why behind it. Also wicked by himself. Why is he scum?

I don't feel the need to point DD or skitter at anything. They both seem active enough for now without prompting.

Two: Who is scum? Is your IS vote policy or do you think he's scum? What's the worst vote on you and why? Of the wagon on you, who is most likely town?
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Post Post #385 (ISO) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:45 pm

Post by Jingle »

That's all for now, folks. I shall return on the morrow.
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Post Post #386 (ISO) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:59 pm

Post by TwoInAMillion »

My scum reads right now are skitter and ucv.
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Post Post #387 (ISO) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:05 pm

Post by TwoInAMillion »

Note that Taiho has only posted twice since her "scumread" of me. You can't put someone on the bottom of your read list and not expect to be taken seriously, even in rvs.
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Post Post #388 (ISO) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:51 pm

Post by taiho »

I got prodded -...-
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Post Post #389 (ISO) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:20 pm

Post by Fykus »

Jingle no its not policy its that i actually think hes scum. Ive seen lurky town before but my gut says that this is different. At the very least we need to vote him into being a willing participant in the game. Although dunk is right about the lack of info if we did lynch him, but since two has a "proveable" role (hes the neighbouriser right?) I think we shouldnt lynch him either because the person he creates a neighbourhood with may be able to discern if hes town or not.

So thats two potential lynches possibly out for today, so id be willing to hear any cases other people might have.
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Post Post #390 (ISO) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:27 pm

Post by TwoInAMillion »

In post 161, UC Voyager wrote:ok... i honestly dont want to read everything so i will try to make points with whatever people say after this or things i see scroll backwords
In post 165, UC Voyager wrote:YOU REALLY EXPECT ME TO READ 7 PAGES????? lol
In post 166, UC Voyager wrote:damn.....calm down
I hate posts like this.
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Post Post #391 (ISO) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:23 pm

Post by Fykus »

ok yeah, i could do iron or ucv today i think.
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Post Post #392 (ISO) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:27 pm

Post by taiho »

jingle #384 -...- don't have definite read on dd.
Townish because he seem to openly speak up his mind, being honest is town trait.
Scummish is that i don't think hes pushing tiam because he really scumread him. >.> Ik it sorta contradicts what i said in the 1st paragraph, but thats how i feel it going over dd's iso. I don't fully get his intentions and Is this suppossed to be reaction test of a sort.

dd's #61 idk if i agree here, liking the confident tone here; side note is i find these sort of posts hard to distinguish whether they are jokish or serious. -.-
#92 dd known tiams meta..
#108 this is being truth for pro-active players in general. I agree with the sentence in the concret case too.
#114 idk why somehow i like this post
#191 nothing to say here tbh
#212 this along with 92 and 114 leave the said impression 2nd paragraph above.
#226 I think that's rather pov thing. Tonal change being scummy is subjective. Is not possible to maintain the same tone is every game.
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Post Post #393 (ISO) » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:54 am

Post by Wickedestjr »

In post 384, Jingle wrote:Wicked: Do you have a particular reason for suspecting IS and 2 together?
Eh, not really. I think they are independently pretty scummy. It is interesting that Two voted for UC instead of IS though considering IS-lynch has more support. That makes me feel slightly better about Two/ironstove.
Jingle wrote:How are you feeling about gamestate?
In general, I'm pretty satisfied. My top scum read has the most votes. If he's a mis-lynch, I agree with you that his role has little value anyway. I will say that I'm actually considering switching my vote to ironstove, though.

I also agree that it's an issue that four people {taiho, NK15, IS, UC} have basically been non-entities this game. But I'm not worried about that right now.
Jingle wrote:How are you feeling about my paranoia wrt to the two lynch?
I would say I have slight reservations about the Two bandwagon, but not for the same reasons as you.

I can't remember ever feeling 100% sure that a particular player was scum on day 1, so I would disagree with that part of your paranoia. "There's some stuff that's pretty damning" is usually the best I ever feel on day 1 and that's how I'm currently feeling. I'm thinking you are a more confident player than I am, so "100%" and "There's some stuff that's pretty damning" might have different meanings for me, though. I don't think Two's bandwagon shows a state of surety but rather a lack of resistance. Normally that's a slight concern for me, but not so much this time.

My reservations about his bandwagon;
1. At one point, he said that he was in a bad mood. If that is true, then it might partially explain why he's felt so disengaged this game. But at the same time I feel like I've been pretty fair with him and he's absolutely not meeting me halfway. Scum can be in a bad mood too.
2. His vote for UC surprised me. I'm not sure how he could expect that vote to lead to anything. He was already voting the prime competitor to his lynch.
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Post Post #394 (ISO) » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:15 am

Post by Dunkerdoodles »

In post 384, Jingle wrote:Tai. Talk to me about Dunk. What is your overall read? What is the towniest thing he's done? The scummiest? What do you think of 61, 92, 108, 114, 191, 212, 226 in particular?

UC: Other than me, who is your strongest scumread atm? Do you still feel EtL is scum? If so, why? If not, who is?

EtL: Propose a scumteam involving 2 for me. Any scumteam.

Flubbs: Talk to me about awoo. Scum? Town? Buddying me? I'm nuts?

IS: You look like in your town games you get off your ass and scumhunt when there's actually content. Is there a particular reason you're not doing so atm?

Wicked: Do you have a particular reason for suspecting IS and 2 together? How are you feeling about gamestate and/or my paranoia wrt to the two lynch?

Fykus: I expect more from you, not in quality but in quantity, but your activity since you started actually playing is the exact type of thing I'm looking for. Is the IS bit policy or do you genuinely believe it to be scum. If the latter, why?

awoo: Tell me more about this wicked/2 theory and the why behind it. Also wicked by himself. Why is he scum?

I don't feel the need to point DD or skitter at anything. They both seem active enough for now without prompting.

Two: Who is scum? Is your IS vote policy or do you think he's scum? What's the worst vote on you and why? Of the wagon on you, who is most likely town?
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Post Post #395 (ISO) » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:58 am

Post by TwoInAMillion »

Townblock [tiam, dunk, Jingle]
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Post Post #396 (ISO) » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:41 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 392, taiho wrote:jingle #384 -...- don't have definite read on dd.
Townish because he seem to openly speak up his mind, being honest is town trait.
Scummish is that i don't think hes pushing tiam because he really scumread him. >.> Ik it sorta contradicts what i said in the 1st paragraph, but thats how i feel it going over dd's iso. I don't fully get his intentions and Is this suppossed to be reaction test of a sort.

dd's #61 idk if i agree here, liking the confident tone here; side note is i find these sort of posts hard to distinguish whether they are jokish or serious. -.-
#92 dd known tiams meta..
#108 this is being truth for pro-active players in general. I agree with the sentence in the concret case too.
#114 idk why somehow i like this post
#191 nothing to say here tbh
#212 this along with 92 and 114 leave the said impression 2nd paragraph above.
#226 I think that's rather pov thing. Tonal change being scummy is subjective. Is not possible to maintain the same tone is every game.
Specifically not a reaction test. More a "Dear god take some stances so I can try to claw my way inside of your head and figure out your alignment" test.

What conclusions do you draw from DD's 92? Does his knowledge of 2's meta as 'scummy even when town' strike you as odd? Particularly in juxtaposition with 2's statement that he's normally townread and the complete lack of any other defense of 2 from DD? Do you think DD is more or less likely to be scum if two flips scum? Town? Why?

What do you think was the point of 108? Why even make that post?

I pretty much agree with you over DD's push on 2 being policy (and I'd bet he'd outright agree), but is there a specific reason in your mind that that would make him scum over town?

Why do you think Dunk thinks (if he actually does) that 84 is scummy?
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Post Post #397 (ISO) » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:46 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 384, Jingle wrote:UC: Other than me, who is your strongest townread atm? Do you still feel EtL is scum? If so, why? If not, who is?
Oh. FTFM
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Post Post #398 (ISO) » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:49 am

Post by TwoInAMillion »

In post 396, Jingle wrote:
In post 392, taiho wrote:jingle #384 -...- don't have definite read on dd.
Townish because he seem to openly speak up his mind, being honest is town trait.
Scummish is that i don't think hes pushing tiam because he really scumread him. >.> Ik it sorta contradicts what i said in the 1st paragraph, but thats how i feel it going over dd's iso. I don't fully get his intentions and Is this suppossed to be reaction test of a sort.

dd's #61 idk if i agree here, liking the confident tone here; side note is i find these sort of posts hard to distinguish whether they are jokish or serious. -.-
#92 dd known tiams meta..
#108 this is being truth for pro-active players in general. I agree with the sentence in the concret case too.
#114 idk why somehow i like this post
#191 nothing to say here tbh
#212 this along with 92 and 114 leave the said impression 2nd paragraph above.
#226 I think that's rather pov thing. Tonal change being scummy is subjective. Is not possible to maintain the same tone is every game.
Specifically not a reaction test. More a "Dear god take some stances so I can try to claw my way inside of your head and figure out your alignment" test.

What conclusions do you draw from DD's 92? Does his knowledge of 2's meta as 'scummy even when town' strike you as odd? Particularly in juxtaposition with 2's statement that he's normally townread and the complete lack of any other defense of 2 from DD? Do you think DD is more or less likely to be scum if two flips scum? Town? Why?

What do you think was the point of 108? Why even make that post?

I pretty much agree with you over DD's push on 2 being policy (and I'd bet he'd outright agree), but is there a specific reason in your mind that that would make him scum over town?

Why do you think Dunk thinks (if he actually does) that 84 is scummy?
I've already explained that Dunk's meta analysis of me is incorrect. I am townread plenty. People don't always agree with my posting style or my playstyle but my results speak for themselves.
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Post Post #399 (ISO) » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:54 am

Post by Jingle »

Sure, but the question is more about what it means that Dunk believes it than what it means that you disagree.

And the asking of the question is more about taiho's alignment than either of yours. :P
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