Mini Normal 1980: TwoInAMillion - The First Game(Town Win!)


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Post Post #2025 (ISO) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:02 pm

Post by Mulch »

In post 2024, Transcend wrote:I sometimes own
This man speaks the truths
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Post Post #2026 (ISO) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:12 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1962, Mulch wrote:A cop and an innocent child Jesus
A TWO-SHOT cop.
With no protectives.
An innocent child.
With no protectives.
A roleblocker who only helps town if incredibly lucky--no scum roles to block, potential to block said cop (and thus, posing a severe risk to the town because if the roleblocker claims to have roleblocked the cop it probably leads to the roleblocker's lynch not to mention a dead cop because again, no protective).

If you think that's overpowered, then you have absolutely no sense of balance. The town barely had enough power as it was.
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Post Post #2027 (ISO) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:18 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1982, Creature wrote:More like town was underpowered unless scum got down to one (and Sephiroth stayed alive).
Basically, this.

Town had essentially nothing.

The cop could be nightkilled.
The cop's target could be nightkilled.
The cop could be roleblocked.
The innocent child could be nightkilled.

The roleblocker only becomes relevant if it stops a nightkill, which it has low odds of doing, unless there's only one scum alive (wherein it becomes essentially a cop).

Plus, a mafia neighbor is a disproportionately strong tool for scum to possess--town neighbors are net-neutral balance-wise, but this might very literally be the very fucking first Normal game with a mafia neighbor that ended in a town win (ask mhsmith for the stats to confirm, but suffice to say, mafia neighbors winning games is not at all unusual a thing to occur); scum-neighbors are weighted as essentially a PR for them. (So yes. The NRG does treat the role differently depending on alignment. Think the difference between a town roleblocker--nigh-useless role--and a mafia roleblocker, one of the two strongest scum roles. Some roles are just more beneficial for scum than others, neighbors among them.)
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Post Post #2028 (ISO) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:05 pm

Post by TwoInAMillion »

i'm not going to say you didn't do a good job reviewing and I appreciate your help, Mastin. I'm just saying I disagreed that town was overpowered because scum also had little power imho.
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Post Post #2029 (ISO) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:15 pm

Post by Mulch »

You do realize a 13er with 3 mafia goons and a cop with a NIGHT ZERO check as the only power role is almost universally considerd to be a townsided setup?

This basically was that but on steroids. Town not only had a cop in the 13er, they had 1) A town neighbor that cleared themselves when the mafia neibghbor was lynched 2) An innocent child 3) An extra "why not" roleblocker.

This was incredibly townsided, there was the potential for 4 clears by night 2 and then even MORE if 2 scum were killed. Scum got nothing
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Post Post #2030 (ISO) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:16 pm

Post by Fro99er »

I thought the balance was just fine, if anything a bit scum-sided but maybe just barely.

We basically only got 1 roleblock, which missed, and 1 cop shot which happened to hit (it was a great check by UCV) the whole game. We didn't get to make use of the IC, any other roleblocks, or the second cop shot.

Whereas scum had use of the neighborhood and night kills each night. Scum neighbors have a *very* high win-rate as mastina said.
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
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Post Post #2031 (ISO) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:17 pm

Post by Fro99er »

In post 2029, Mulch wrote:1) A town neighbor that cleared themselves when the mafia neibghbor was lynched
that's a good point though.
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
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Post Post #2032 (ISO) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:18 pm

Post by Mulch »

Cops almost never get off more than 2 peeks anyway unless they are a God

so a cop and a 2-shot cop are the same thing

This basically took the townsided 3 goons cop with a night zero setup:

Took away the night zero
Added 2 neighors that cleared the town neighbor when flavor was lynched
Added a rouge roleblocker
And then an inno child???
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Post Post #2033 (ISO) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:23 pm

Post by TwoInAMillion »

I think I had a scum rolecop and no ic in my original setup.
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Post Post #2034 (ISO) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:25 pm

Post by Mulch »

In post 2033, TwoInAMillion wrote:I think I had a scum rolecop and no ic in my original setup.
That sounds fair to me
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Post Post #2035 (ISO) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:26 pm

Post by Fro99er »

Scum rolecop
scum neighbor
goon

vs

neighbor
roleblocker
2-shot cop
7x VT?

that's extremely scumsided.
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
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Post Post #2036 (ISO) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:29 pm

Post by Transcend »

Moral of the story:
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Post Post #2037 (ISO) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:29 pm

Post by Transcend »

In post 754, Transcend wrote:
LOLHOODS
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Post Post #2038 (ISO) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:31 pm

Post by Mulch »

In post 2035, Fro99er wrote:Scum rolecop
scum neighbor
goon

vs

neighbor
roleblocker
2-shot cop
7x VT?

that's extremely scumsided.
I mean

The cop is basically 2 clears

it seems fair to me
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Post Post #2039 (ISO) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:33 pm

Post by Fro99er »

In post 2038, Mulch wrote:
In post 2035, Fro99er wrote:Scum rolecop
scum neighbor
goon

vs

neighbor
roleblocker
2-shot cop
7x VT?

that's extremely scumsided.
I mean

The cop is basically 2 clears

it seems fair to me

the cop could get killed N1

the cop could get roleblocked

it's not basically 2 clears

the scum neighbor is a PR while the town neighbor, for all intents and purposes, isn't.

it's nowhere near balanced.
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
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Post Post #2040 (ISO) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:33 pm

Post by Mulch »

I don't understand why scum neighbor should be anything but NAI

Why should we reward towns for being so shitty
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Post Post #2041 (ISO) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:34 pm

Post by Fro99er »

because scum are the informed minority. Being an informed neighbor >>> being an uninformed neighbor.
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
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Post Post #2042 (ISO) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:35 pm

Post by Fro99er »

plus the role cop doesn't have to check the town neighbor, because scum already know who the town neighbor is, so it narrows the pool down further.

it's incredibly scumsided

the setup we played was balanced.
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
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Post Post #2043 (ISO) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:35 pm

Post by Sephiroth »

OH HEY WE WON

I just wanted to throw out two thoughts. Thought #1, I was purposefully trying to play scummy here because of the whole roleblocker thing.

Thought #2: I'm posting this from SURVIVORMEET which I am playing as my alt Elias_the_thief and I just want to say its fucking great.
You are just a muppet... You have no heart... and cannot feel any pain.
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Post Post #2044 (ISO) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:00 pm

Post by UC Voyager »

In post 2032, Mulch wrote:Cops almost never get off more than 2 peeks anyway unless they are a God

so a cop and a 2-shot cop are the same thing

This basically took the townsided 3 goons cop with a night zero setup:

Took away the night zero
Added 2 neighors that cleared the town neighbor when flavor was lynched
Added a rouge roleblocker
And then an inno child???
yea. saddly. i forgot to invest anyone N1. so yeah. I honestly did not expect to get a guilty on FL. i was expecting town because i town read them and i wan'ted to confirm this for myself
so...i don't get enough sleep
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Post Post #2045 (ISO) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:00 am

Post by Srceenplay »

Lol
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Post Post #2046 (ISO) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:07 am

Post by Nexus »

To nominate this game and any players or mods in it, please see the Scummies nomination thread.
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