Large Normal 212: Korts' Geriatrics - Game Over @1831

[Tammy]

Erm Lycan this narrative you're building with Chamber and Chamber v Pine is hilariously and completely wrong. And I don't think my looking at you and going huh wtf are you talking about is completely off base because I was following along during that time and reading Chamber so strongly town that the literal moment he replaced out I requested to be a replacement because i wanted this slot and now that I know my read was right I'm still like HUH?

Chamber's 129 was fine. He was trying to meta Eddie and get a read on him. Surely you've seen people ask for people to link games before. What was Chamber's 138 supposed to be oh obi wan of understanding Chamber?

He didn't get demotivated. If you'd actually been reading Chamber's posts and trying to get a read on him, you'd have seen 39 and 42 and considering he replaced out immediately after 166 how don't you, if you're actually trying to get a read on Chamber, wonder or figure if that's why Chamber replaced out? (My armchair position is that he replaced out because while he can be quite a bit condescending, what with the newbie/join date thing and how useless town hunting is, he really was that bothered by the old man alt and his previous post which was really kinda personally condescending and felt more along the lines of a personal attack and Chamber just literally didn't want to be a part of the game anymore. He could have been frustrated by Pine interrupting his pushes too I guess, and maybe we'll find out just what it was later, but I'd put a decent bet on it being Old Man.)

Also, you can pedal whatever you want, but read my damn posts instead of two of Chambers to pedal your narrative. Have you ever played with Chamber? Talked to Chamber? I get that I'm a replacement and have to deal with what people though of Chamber too, but you sticking on two posts and building a narrative that is so wrong while not looking at my posting at all isn't really you trying to figure out the game. It looks more like you picking something you thought you could build something on.

I liked Axel's 67 and if you've actually read my posts, I'm prreeeeeeety sure I've been in agreement with both he and Hito's take on that with Pine.

Vote Count

(5) Lycanfire - hitogoroshi, Kison, insanity018, Old Man, Kmd4390
(3) Axelrod - roflcopter, ManaofIllusion, Pine
(2) hitogoroshi - CooLDoG, Firebringer
(2) Pine - Axelrod, Lycanfire
(1) Eddie Cane - Tammy
(1) Old Man - Ginngie
(1) roflcopter - Eddie Cane

not voting:

8 to lynch

Deadline is 6 PM EST on Monday the 28th of May.

[Tammy]

Insanity - Thanks. I found that game earlier. It's actually what reminded me of people who claim meta knowledge and an ability to read me but tunnel me when town. She didn't do that that game exactly but it was a pretty standard frustrating as hell feature of our games together for a while. I did do a skim of you in that game, you hadn't had a completed town game at the time, and this might be a weird kind of question but do you think there is a distinctive difference between your town and scum game? (I have not meta'd you, and that game was quite a long time ago, but humor me if you don't mind?)

UMMMMMMMMMMM pretending to be drunk scum tell? I'm in an alternate universe someone save me. I feel like I remember Thor using that tell years ago on town if I might add. BZZZZZZZZ Not an actual tell. If Ginngie's scum it's not because she's drunk right now.

On firebringer - What I was hoping to see from fire bringer's new style for this game was the posting style he had early game in the Thing as Fire Assassin? Anyway, fire bringer I think that posting style would serve you in this style game. (They remade fahrenheit 451! I didn't know that.) Okay so I don't know really how to read fire bringer with this new style because it doesn't feel like him, so tonally off sure but is it because he's scum or because he's affecting a new style? There are times, like when he's interacting with people, that he feels light and airy and town. I actually like his end of 131 when he says he's not going to claim or vote until the end of day or sheep his town soulmate, and I'm probably in the minority in liking the guessing game he's playing with Eddie over his town read on him. I like his scum read on Magna insofar as it's twigging on Magna sourcing out the read on him. (This is something that I want to look into Magna's games if I have the time and the inclination because I believe I have a memory of Magna working with people on reads, so if I am right I can put that point to rest.)

I don't think him voting people he thinks are town because he's sheeping a strong town read benefits him or is necessarily indicative of him being scum. It seems like the type of thing that he decided to do before this game started and would probably do alignment regardless maybe? My recollection of his scum game is doing showy trolly stuff as a blatant show, but this is from afar as an already dead scum mate in Kids TV show.

The only thing that has made me really wonder about him is 583 because I felt like it could be joining in on the general feeling offended in this game about points being made. And I'm really super sorry if you're really offended and I'm wondering if it could be fake, fire, but it felt a little off in that department.

All in all, I don't have an issue with the posts he's actually making and he's probably just a positive shade of null. I think I'd be able to get a better read there if he was in an atmosphere where his play style could flourish or he was making more posts that just sounded like him, or at least the him that I've seen before.

[Tammy]

Ginngie - In Nancy's game you read KMD as scum correctly. Is that the only game you played with him and what's your read there?

KMD - I'm chuckling right now because you lost a post in our last game together. Not that it means anything, it was just amusing. Though I guess there you did try to explain what was in the post and you didn't here, not sure if that means anything. I looked at our last game because I thought I remembered you getting kinda caught up on a minor point in which you tried to push that someone tried to play up being drunk and the more you explained that the scummier you looked about it.

Anyway I did like his first 192 because he acknowledges that he tried to get something but didn't but was gonna go back and try again but thought it was all going to be fencesitty/iioa. Yeah I know it's easy to point that out, but he's capable enough as scum to paint things as scum/town and look superficially townie while doing, so that just felt honest to me.

Oh there was a weak point made by axel that I wanted to point out earlier. Part of Axel's case on KMD was that he explained why he wasn't here, or something along those lines, which I don't think is as scum indicative as people make it out to be. I do get that people think it's scummy because I've been on the receiving end of it, but it's more personality dependent than anything. So that's not scummy.

Liked the cross out on the fire bringer read in 310. I realize it's a small thing, but it feels like he actually thought about that read and came back.

And my other half just woke up. Gonna hang out with him before I go to sleep. I will pick back up here on my KMD read through tomorrow.

[Korts]

Vote Count

(5) Lycanfire - hitogoroshi, Kison, insanity018, Old Man, Kmd4390
(3) Axelrod - roflcopter, ManaofIllusion, Pine
(2) hitogoroshi - CooLDoG, Firebringer
(2) Pine - Axelrod, Lycanfire
(1) Eddie Cane - Tammy
(1) Old Man - Ginngie
(1) roflcopter - Eddie Cane

not voting:

8 to lynch

Deadline is 6 PM EST on Monday the 28th of May.

[Kmd4390]

Why shouldn't I be pointing out what I find to be scum play in him? Yes, I know his claim is that he will be cleared tomorrow. Until that point I'm proceeding with calling him out for scummy play. I know he isn't going to be lynched today. But

I want my opinion well documented

for the point where tomorrow comes and the real possibility that he's fake-claiming scum. Do you think that's bad play or scummy?

That's interesting to me. By all means, I can see wanting him held accountable. And yeah if he turns out to not be IC I expect that he'll be lynched. But the bolded feels self serving. It's like you're waiting to line up a "told you so". Like it's more important to you that we know your stance than it is to sort Old Man.

_______________

Eddie is your rofl vote just because you don't agree with his reads or is there more I'm missing or forgetting?

[Ginngie]

Town: Lycan, Old, Kison, CoolDog
Who left: yike


(mixed about: rofl, hito, MoI, Tammy, Fire, Pine)

(tbh haven't focused on at all: KMD, insanity, Eddie)

Though I guess there you did try to explain what was in the post and you didn't here, not sure if that means anything. I looked at our last game because I thought I remembered you getting kinda caught up on a minor point in which you tried to push that someone tried to play up being drunk and the more you explained that the scummier you looked about it.

THIS WAS PRISM IN GIRLS 2

Any questions for a drunk Prism who presumably is more sloppy as scum or more genuine as town now's your chance

This feels manipulative. Like someone who is more in control than they are letting on and trying to get people to town read them.

For reference, Prism Town, KMD scum

SO LYCAN



AND FUCK YA TELL


FUCK NOT MULTIPOSTING IS HARD

OKAY REAL TALK

SCUM OR TOWN LYCAN PUSHING THAT TELL BECAUSE HE'S HAD IT WORK BEFORE

I'VE USED DUMB TELLS THAT HAVE WORKED A LOT BEFORE SO LIKE

THERE CAN BE VALIDITY THERE

REMEMBER, DUMB TOWN DOESN'T EQUAL SCUM

[Kmd4390]

If only because this is kind of a mirror of my position, BUT KMD actually has Firebringer as a town read and not a eugenics null. But when I read this post it feels like he has my read on Firebringer, not his.

I do have a weak town read on firebringer. The difference between my reads and yours may be as simple as that I try not to have null reads. I like to be able to say one way or the other even if it's very weak or just gut.

[Firebringer]

Prodge.
not playing this game right now.

I support the votes on hito.

reads havent changed

[insanity018]

Insanity

Why does it trouble you that I find 129+130 to be a S+S interaction? Yes, it's true that scum have no reason to stop a buddy's push, but the sheer fact of the matter is that Chamber left himself wide open with, IMO, an awful post 129 and Pine called him out way too early. I need to justify that somehow. If it were SvT, doesn't Pine run the risk of getting called by Chamber himself? This didn't happen- Chamber's rebuttal, 138 is

remarkably tame

. He had a chance of going with my approach, "why do you deny the utility of the responses I'd get to this/why are you interfering at all". Instead he drops him as a townread and projects that Pine is a

better player than he lets on

.

I despise demands like that. The burden of proof for meta demands is on the accuser.

1: this post is awful. You are no longer top town read (see, no credence).

2: You assume this is some backhanded attack against him. He has a better knowledge of his history than I do, if he can provide the counter example why wouldn't I want to see it?

Chamber then ran a slow churn of demotivation until he replaced out. That's indicative of somebody that wanted to play the game and had a teammate dick around to score lylo points.

I don't see this at all. What do you make of the fact that Pine has been very aggressive with chamber from the get go, with Pine's attacking chamber for the old man alt issue and then chamber's Eddie cane thoughts. Do you think scum-Pine came out and wanted to find fault with everything scum-chamber said? Do you think it is equally possible that town-chamber could replace out due to hostility?

Do you have any thoughts on Pine's play after this part of the day or Tammy's play since replacing in?

Sure: his interactions with Insanity are some kinds of awful. Insanity encourages TL's suspicion of Axel|Chamber|PJ in her post 112, and in 115 Axel begins to go hard on Chamber. Later, Insanity scrutinizes Axel in 113 which Hitogorishi points out in 124 saying the shade going Axel's way is best combined with a vote.

Yes, Hito did say that. Do you agree? What's your read of me?

[insanity018]

@Pine, what is 661 directed at?

And Ginnnnngie - You say that you have Lycan as town, but you also said that as scum he lets the game go by him even though he has plans for what to do. Does the fact that he hasn't posted for four days, even though he's been on site, sound anything like him just letting the game go by him or?

he make content

and given the amount of walls this game, I can understand it.

I'm judging based on what content he does make, not lack there of, or there being something to begin with.

What content do you believe Lycanfire has added to this game?

Insanity - Thanks. I found that game earlier. It's actually what reminded me of people who claim meta knowledge and an ability to read me but tunnel me when town. She didn't do that that game exactly but it was a pretty standard frustrating as hell feature of our games together for a while. I did do a skim of you in that game, you hadn't had a completed town game at the time, and this might be a weird kind of question but do you think there is a distinctive difference between your town and scum game? (I have not meta'd you, and that game was quite a long time ago, but humor me if you don't mind?)

I recently had a 2 year break from the site (and came back because geriatric games yay!) so most of my games are pretty old. I would say that as scum, I actively go after bad town and easy mislynches and make everything fit into a narrative for why they're scum. But as town, I actually think more about why people are doing/saying things.

[roflcopter]

(and came back because geriatric games yay!)

see i don't disagree with you about everything!

[Pine]

@Insanity - Look at timestamps. It's an expansion of 658. I started writing it immediately after posting 658 and realizing it wasn't really a sufficient answer.

[Ginngie]

What content do you believe Lycanfire has added to this game?

Spoiler: Is there content behind door #1?

Spoiler: Is there content behind door #2?

Spoiler: Is there content behind door #3?

where i'm at: end of page 6

@Axel: Pine budding in with Chamber seems to be a re-occurring theme. What's your read on the Chamber slot?

@Eddie Cane: Have you called anybody dogshit yet?

@Moi: How do you feel about OM defining Eddie Cane as lynchbait and encouraging Petro to make something of themselves?

@Roflcopter: You wanted no business in OM or Eddie in 143. What about Axel interested you so much that you'd sit on the vote for +/- 80 posts?

@Tammy: I'd ask Chamber what the fuck he's doing for half of his posts. If you want to play get in the mind of your pred I'm game~

@Woofbringer: Did you ask Pine to marry you just to make Moi jealous?

People I'm hard tring~

Hito made a roundabout post 124 that "leads back to zero". It reads like Hito had a good point and decided to keep talking until he discredited himself, which is something that would come from town opposed to a scumbutt that gets off on having authority.

OM. The gambit is good. He's the most sociable player on the list so far interacting with everybody besides KMD and Cooldog, and I feel like he's pushing people in the right places./ I'm only seeing good intent from him so far.

People I'm hard sring~

Chamber dropped a shitpost in 129 and Pine made the very reasonable reply afterwards... in 130.

cough

sorry if I leave it like that my point will be lost on people

Pine interfered with Chamber's push on Eddie. Make your good points™ all you like, I'll probably roll my eyes onto my touchpad. What shooting it down immediately does is remove any utility his poorly intended question had. Why'd you break up the fight Pine? Chiarire.

VOTE: Pine

Here is what I am referring to

I think his is pretty much the textbook definition of talking poorly about the Geriatric community.

This was actually a jab at MU/kids these days saying MU have stronger towns. I got Mulch banned, praise me god damnit.

I wouldn’t say it is a fascination as much as the most recent game we were both in and I don’t remember what alignment you were. So I wanted to refresh my memory of how you played and see if you were Town there or not. For example I will need to see if you were this over-reactive in that game.

You referenced Spyro in Mini Normal 1890 to let everyone know just how shitty at town you think I was (something about "strapping myself to vifam somebody who intentionally harms their towngame to help their scumgame") and how my reads were shit. Something you talked yourself into in Mini Normal 1890 because you simply wanted that to be true. Let's not talk Spyro any more.

I make everyone jealous with my hot dog buns. If you know what I mean

I suppose what I meant to say is simultaneously scumreading Moi and calling him a friend right afterward read as inflammatory and I was hoping to see your read on him on the live thread.

Your read here in 469 is a lot like 169. Actually, both of you are very happy to attack each other on word choice alone. Tone is bunk unless there's a motive behind somebody speaking the way they have. If someone is scum, they naturally have intent to do harm. We are exactly +300 posts from then to live. Can you frame anything Moi has said as being simply morally wrong?

Whats been up with you Lycan? Seems people don't really like your slot so much.
What your thoughts on people scumreading it?

I have few ideas of who is scumreading my slot and even fewer ideas as for why. I'd guess it's a continuation of early game of Hitogorishi "associative with Josh/Pine" and OM's "independent read on 99 being some fenceshit"/Hito later agreeing with that. I think the entirety of 99 were not awful positions to have (I disliked PJ's early shade of the PGO claim simply because consensus is good, if you're going to break from consensus, break hard).

TL's Chamber read here led to his 105 which poked at Chamber to correct his behavior. I have the 103-105 exchange noted down as "103 chamber being factitious and borrowing charisma is rarely good spirited. first interaction with TL" and "105 TL anti-meta freak vs meta-freak. yeah, i'm not in tywin's head here unless he's trying to prompt some amazingly townie post out of chamber about why meta is a god and he is a shepard." Basically, TL got set off just like I did by 103 and baited Chamber into proving his worth instead of talking big. Considering how mechanical Chamber is, the lowkey shit stirring TL did here was actually well intentioned.

From what I read Chamber gave himself enough space to hit the gas at will, but broke down after his slapfight with OM making a series of nonsense posts that I'll detail after an important question.

Are you scumreading both Chamber and Pine? Where do you believe that Pine has interfered with Chamber's push?

Sure, I read it as S+S (128-130). Just looking at the call from TL onto Chamber and Chamber's immediate need to justify his work, only to be immediately shot down by Pine is suspect. We don't have the same Chamber with us after this exchange, in fact he will leave soon after.

>150 chamber says he isn't trying to get people to vote for eddie, while voting eddie. then why are you voting eddie?
>157 chamber hasn't properly metadived eddie... proceeds to explain how they have metadove eddie. comes to a conclusion that matches their vote, but refuses to be definite or like in 150, get people to vote eddie.

And smacked the brake pedal hard 12 hours after his post on Eddie and requested replacement.

breaking here to praise the best siege weapon, the trebuchet.

On Axelrod

I have lukewarm feelings about the slot because he scumread both Chamber and Pine. My question to him was a lead off to put how he rationalized the two slots alignments for when I made my next post. I didn't get a response.

I could see him as scum with somebody like insanity from interactions, but I don't like the reasoning:

so ask yourselves, what the hell is axel's vote doing on pine at this point? there has never been momentum against pine, axel has done little to nothing to build any momentum against pine, while there has in fact been momentum against the tywin slot and against kmd. the answer is that both tywin and kmd are mislynches waiting to happen, and pine is axel's scumbuddy who he has no interest in actually seeing lynched, he's just building that sweet sweet distance.

Roflcopter's 588 can be summed as "TL and Kmd are town, [he] did other things while keeping his vote on Pine".

My feelings on this amount to "if I can come up with much better reasons to suspect Axelrod, should I trust you're working in good faith?"

-Straight-up I didn't like him calling insanity a he while defending insanity.
-I feel like Axel performed mental gymnastics trying to suspect OM's reluctance to townread Chamber for making a second vote. Chamber committed the cardinal sin of following into the trash heap tell I got from Wickedestjr in Perpetual Mylo III. I don't see anything inconsistent in OM's refusal to townread a second vote.
-"Hating when townies lie" could be a slip, or may have been looking for a reason to vote Cooldog in the future. I'd say they wouldn't be partners, but nothing came of it.
-I disliked the amount of words he used to read OM as "null". He's said a lot about and to OM already at this point, and I'd expect him to further his read instead of hold his chin and slowly say "null".

What I like

-The early wagonomics of Eddie Cane is something I liked. This is what launched us out of RVS, and I think a scumpartner doesn't put attention on this wagon again.
-He liked Eddie's reasoning for voting Kmd. As being on Josh's team in Team Mafia I know how he strongly he feels when people act differently from how he expects (LLD) or exactly how he expects them to (Ranmaru). Basically, I don't think they're aligned, but despite playing a dangerous game by touching the jokewagon matter he's removing morale for a continued wagon.
-I like the pressure he put on Moi. The misrep was pretty easy to see, but the "do you know his main?" bit was a poke I really liked because things feel personal between OM-Moi.

Basically: the things he was doing from early game to now had positive effects.

Sure: his interactions with Insanity are some kinds of awful. Insanity encourages TL's suspicion of Axel|Chamber|PJ in her post 112, and in 115 Axel begins to go hard on Chamber. Later, Insanity scrutinizes Axel in 113 which Hitogorishi points out in 124 saying the shade going Axel's way is best combined with a vote.

Roflcopter

With the above in mind, do you think it's as simple as a team of {Axel, Insanity, OM, Pine}? Can you give a more up to date read on OM?

Neddie

You said Axel and Insanity are both town. How'd you get there? You continually rate Insanity high in your readslists but all I see are pings in 156. Show me the way!

Moi

I'll give you a spicy take on Kmd when I catch up. Can you tell me your opinion on Axel's 117?

Pine

This is still the best vote today or what I would say if he didn't replace out. I never received an explanation on why he interfered with Chamber, and he definitely could have explained his push rather than ask Moi who he should vote.

Insanity

Why does it trouble you that I find 129+130 to be a S+S interaction? Yes, it's true that scum have no reason to stop a buddy's push, but the sheer fact of the matter is that Chamber left himself wide open with, IMO, an awful post 129 and Pine called him out way too early. I need to justify that somehow. If it were SvT, doesn't Pine run the risk of getting called by Chamber himself? This didn't happen- Chamber's rebuttal, 138 is

remarkably tame

. He had a chance of going with my approach, "why do you deny the utility of the responses I'd get to this/why are you interfering at all". Instead he drops him as a townread and projects that Pine is a

better player than he lets on

.

I despise demands like that. The burden of proof for meta demands is on the accuser.

1: this post is awful. You are no longer top town read (see, no credence).

2: You assume this is some backhanded attack against him. He has a better knowledge of his history than I do, if he can provide the counter example why wouldn't I want to see it?

Chamber then ran a slow churn of demotivation until he replaced out. That's indicative of somebody that wanted to play the game and had a teammate dick around to score lylo points.

Tammy

What are your thoughts on 67?

After strenuous use of clicking the ISO button, I could not for the life of me find one instance of Lycan doing literally anything this game.

What a damn shame

[Kmd4390]

I get more stressed when its not a good case. I get even more stressed when the case is personally insulting and rehashing things we've been through over and over.

Also the bolded I can’t connect with at all as coming from Town. I relish having scum make garbage cases against me as Town as it makes my job that much easier in finding and hanging them. Not stressed. And the repetition should work on similar lines because Appeal to Repetition is a thing. And hell even if you think PJ’s slot is bad Town a garbage case isn’t going to move the meter without scum having to get their hands very dirty to push a mislynch behind it.

I find myself relating to Eddie on this one. It's frustrating dealing with people who suspect you for bad reasons. I get it all the time with my activity. I go to work and people think I'm scum because I haven't posted. Magna, some people are just more emotional in games and those are the things those people see before any of the logic you describe.

And then he jumps to my #214 about KMD, and characterizes this as some kind of...flip? Because I'm now expressing suspicion of KMD for his Eddie vote. He has seemingly missed #202, where I started to come around on Eddie, and also seemingly missed the entire context of #214, where I had been specifically waiting to see how KMD responded to Eddie's accusation, and KMD's response was super lackluster.

If our back and forth didn't satisfy you, why didn't you respond to my last post directed at you?

______________.

Ginngie's town read on Lycan simply for "making content" feels off to me.

[Kmd4390]

Mod, can you fix those tags please

? That's what I get for not using preview.

[Kison]

Here & reading up now. Realistically, I don't see myself voting anyone besides Axel or staying on Lycan at this point. I like the composition of the Axel wagon better but feel better about Lycan being scum, so going to focus on Axel in catching up.

[Tammy]

What content do you believe Lycanfire has added to this game?

Spoiler: Is there content behind door #1?

Spoiler: Is there content behind door #2?

Spoiler: Is there content behind door #3?

where i'm at: end of page 6

@Axel: Pine budding in with Chamber seems to be a re-occurring theme. What's your read on the Chamber slot?

@Eddie Cane: Have you called anybody dogshit yet?

@Moi: How do you feel about OM defining Eddie Cane as lynchbait and encouraging Petro to make something of themselves?

@Roflcopter: You wanted no business in OM or Eddie in 143. What about Axel interested you so much that you'd sit on the vote for +/- 80 posts?

@Tammy: I'd ask Chamber what the fuck he's doing for half of his posts. If you want to play get in the mind of your pred I'm game~

@Woofbringer: Did you ask Pine to marry you just to make Moi jealous?

People I'm hard tring~

Hito made a roundabout post 124 that "leads back to zero". It reads like Hito had a good point and decided to keep talking until he discredited himself, which is something that would come from town opposed to a scumbutt that gets off on having authority.

OM. The gambit is good. He's the most sociable player on the list so far interacting with everybody besides KMD and Cooldog, and I feel like he's pushing people in the right places./ I'm only seeing good intent from him so far.

People I'm hard sring~

Chamber dropped a shitpost in 129 and Pine made the very reasonable reply afterwards... in 130.

cough

sorry if I leave it like that my point will be lost on people

Pine interfered with Chamber's push on Eddie. Make your good points™ all you like, I'll probably roll my eyes onto my touchpad. What shooting it down immediately does is remove any utility his poorly intended question had. Why'd you break up the fight Pine? Chiarire.

VOTE: Pine

Here is what I am referring to

I think his is pretty much the textbook definition of talking poorly about the Geriatric community.

This was actually a jab at MU/kids these days saying MU have stronger towns. I got Mulch banned, praise me god damnit.

I wouldn’t say it is a fascination as much as the most recent game we were both in and I don’t remember what alignment you were. So I wanted to refresh my memory of how you played and see if you were Town there or not. For example I will need to see if you were this over-reactive in that game.

You referenced Spyro in Mini Normal 1890 to let everyone know just how shitty at town you think I was (something about "strapping myself to vifam somebody who intentionally harms their towngame to help their scumgame") and how my reads were shit. Something you talked yourself into in Mini Normal 1890 because you simply wanted that to be true. Let's not talk Spyro any more.

I make everyone jealous with my hot dog buns. If you know what I mean

I suppose what I meant to say is simultaneously scumreading Moi and calling him a friend right afterward read as inflammatory and I was hoping to see your read on him on the live thread.

Your read here in 469 is a lot like 169. Actually, both of you are very happy to attack each other on word choice alone. Tone is bunk unless there's a motive behind somebody speaking the way they have. If someone is scum, they naturally have intent to do harm. We are exactly +300 posts from then to live. Can you frame anything Moi has said as being simply morally wrong?

Whats been up with you Lycan? Seems people don't really like your slot so much.
What your thoughts on people scumreading it?

I have few ideas of who is scumreading my slot and even fewer ideas as for why. I'd guess it's a continuation of early game of Hitogorishi "associative with Josh/Pine" and OM's "independent read on 99 being some fenceshit"/Hito later agreeing with that. I think the entirety of 99 were not awful positions to have (I disliked PJ's early shade of the PGO claim simply because consensus is good, if you're going to break from consensus, break hard).

TL's Chamber read here led to his 105 which poked at Chamber to correct his behavior. I have the 103-105 exchange noted down as "103 chamber being factitious and borrowing charisma is rarely good spirited. first interaction with TL" and "105 TL anti-meta freak vs meta-freak. yeah, i'm not in tywin's head here unless he's trying to prompt some amazingly townie post out of chamber about why meta is a god and he is a shepard." Basically, TL got set off just like I did by 103 and baited Chamber into proving his worth instead of talking big. Considering how mechanical Chamber is, the lowkey shit stirring TL did here was actually well intentioned.

From what I read Chamber gave himself enough space to hit the gas at will, but broke down after his slapfight with OM making a series of nonsense posts that I'll detail after an important question.

Are you scumreading both Chamber and Pine? Where do you believe that Pine has interfered with Chamber's push?

Sure, I read it as S+S (128-130). Just looking at the call from TL onto Chamber and Chamber's immediate need to justify his work, only to be immediately shot down by Pine is suspect. We don't have the same Chamber with us after this exchange, in fact he will leave soon after.

>150 chamber says he isn't trying to get people to vote for eddie, while voting eddie. then why are you voting eddie?
>157 chamber hasn't properly metadived eddie... proceeds to explain how they have metadove eddie. comes to a conclusion that matches their vote, but refuses to be definite or like in 150, get people to vote eddie.

And smacked the brake pedal hard 12 hours after his post on Eddie and requested replacement.

breaking here to praise the best siege weapon, the trebuchet.

On Axelrod

I have lukewarm feelings about the slot because he scumread both Chamber and Pine. My question to him was a lead off to put how he rationalized the two slots alignments for when I made my next post. I didn't get a response.

I could see him as scum with somebody like insanity from interactions, but I don't like the reasoning:

so ask yourselves, what the hell is axel's vote doing on pine at this point? there has never been momentum against pine, axel has done little to nothing to build any momentum against pine, while there has in fact been momentum against the tywin slot and against kmd. the answer is that both tywin and kmd are mislynches waiting to happen, and pine is axel's scumbuddy who he has no interest in actually seeing lynched, he's just building that sweet sweet distance.

Roflcopter's 588 can be summed as "TL and Kmd are town, [he] did other things while keeping his vote on Pine".

My feelings on this amount to "if I can come up with much better reasons to suspect Axelrod, should I trust you're working in good faith?"

-Straight-up I didn't like him calling insanity a he while defending insanity.
-I feel like Axel performed mental gymnastics trying to suspect OM's reluctance to townread Chamber for making a second vote. Chamber committed the cardinal sin of following into the trash heap tell I got from Wickedestjr in Perpetual Mylo III. I don't see anything inconsistent in OM's refusal to townread a second vote.
-"Hating when townies lie" could be a slip, or may have been looking for a reason to vote Cooldog in the future. I'd say they wouldn't be partners, but nothing came of it.
-I disliked the amount of words he used to read OM as "null". He's said a lot about and to OM already at this point, and I'd expect him to further his read instead of hold his chin and slowly say "null".

What I like

-The early wagonomics of Eddie Cane is something I liked. This is what launched us out of RVS, and I think a scumpartner doesn't put attention on this wagon again.
-He liked Eddie's reasoning for voting Kmd. As being on Josh's team in Team Mafia I know how he strongly he feels when people act differently from how he expects (LLD) or exactly how he expects them to (Ranmaru). Basically, I don't think they're aligned, but despite playing a dangerous game by touching the jokewagon matter he's removing morale for a continued wagon.
-I like the pressure he put on Moi. The misrep was pretty easy to see, but the "do you know his main?" bit was a poke I really liked because things feel personal between OM-Moi.

Basically: the things he was doing from early game to now had positive effects.

Sure: his interactions with Insanity are some kinds of awful. Insanity encourages TL's suspicion of Axel|Chamber|PJ in her post 112, and in 115 Axel begins to go hard on Chamber. Later, Insanity scrutinizes Axel in 113 which Hitogorishi points out in 124 saying the shade going Axel's way is best combined with a vote.

Roflcopter

With the above in mind, do you think it's as simple as a team of {Axel, Insanity, OM, Pine}? Can you give a more up to date read on OM?

Neddie

You said Axel and Insanity are both town. How'd you get there? You continually rate Insanity high in your readslists but all I see are pings in 156. Show me the way!

Moi

I'll give you a spicy take on Kmd when I catch up. Can you tell me your opinion on Axel's 117?

Pine

This is still the best vote today or what I would say if he didn't replace out. I never received an explanation on why he interfered with Chamber, and he definitely could have explained his push rather than ask Moi who he should vote.

Insanity

Why does it trouble you that I find 129+130 to be a S+S interaction? Yes, it's true that scum have no reason to stop a buddy's push, but the sheer fact of the matter is that Chamber left himself wide open with, IMO, an awful post 129 and Pine called him out way too early. I need to justify that somehow. If it were SvT, doesn't Pine run the risk of getting called by Chamber himself? This didn't happen- Chamber's rebuttal, 138 is

remarkably tame

. He had a chance of going with my approach, "why do you deny the utility of the responses I'd get to this/why are you interfering at all". Instead he drops him as a townread and projects that Pine is a

better player than he lets on

.

I despise demands like that. The burden of proof for meta demands is on the accuser.

1: this post is awful. You are no longer top town read (see, no credence).

2: You assume this is some backhanded attack against him. He has a better knowledge of his history than I do, if he can provide the counter example why wouldn't I want to see it?

Chamber then ran a slow churn of demotivation until he replaced out. That's indicative of somebody that wanted to play the game and had a teammate dick around to score lylo points.

Tammy

What are your thoughts on 67?

After strenuous use of clicking the ISO button, I could not for the life of me find one instance of Lycan doing literally anything this game.

What a damn shame

If you’re town, please stop posting like this. I get that posturing is your playstyle sometimes but it’s extremely hard to read because it’s just scummy and annoying as shit especially when I know you have the capability to actually just play.

You know damn well what she was asking.

But to expand on that why is Lycan making a couple posts with content enough to make him solid town but almost everyone else with content you’re just mixed about?

Also also why didn’t you answer my question about why you weren’t interacting with Eddie cane?

[Tammy]

Also I’m not going to do the kmd iso I was in the middle of. I am going to make my way through rofl and axel and look at that case, but one of the many reasons I took a break from mafia was that mafia was becoming more of a chore and an obligation rather than a fun hobby and a puzzle for me to figure out and I was putting too much pressure on myself to be really town looking and get everything right. I can’t change the way people treat each other, nor can I change people being so anti-town it makes it harder to win, but I can change my approach.

My reads suck day one, I’m not going to be able to force myself to have better reads and isoing isn’t going to help that at all. All it will do is make me annoyed with this game which won’t help any of us. I need to figure out a way to be lower volume/obligation but still be effective.

So I’m just going to break this up into who I am willing and am not willing to vote for today,

I know I’m not willing to vote: magna, CooLDoG, old man, Eddie cane, Hito, fire, pine, and probably not kmd or insanity or Kison.

These are not all town reads, some are just people who I’ve liked a post or direction or tone of theirs that I just think they’re not a good day one lynch. (Pine is here because day one pinecone pass)

Left rofl and axel out cuz I want to look at the case there. I still think axel for the most part seems fine and just like he has when we’ve played together; I don’t think I’ve seen him as scum, but. I’ve liked his lightheartedness in general, but I was surprised by the meta backup of me when he’s pretty solidly anti-meta and one of his last posts that felt a little defeated? that’s not really the right word, but overall he seems fine, but I will look at that case.

[Tammy]

UNVOTE:

[Kmd4390]

V/LA until Friday

Last stretch of work before vacation starts at 11pm tonight.

[Axelrod]

All right, doing this. Responses are in bold.

@Magna

Spoiler:

So with a completely fresh set of eyes I’m looking at Axel’s ISO –

His progression at the start of the game is pretty Null to me. I mean we’ve been over confirm-gate to death but I don’t necessarily see anything that pushes me either way about his posts around that. In fact his unwillingness to put Eddie at L-2 that early isn’t scummy at all. Worst that can be said is that the point he makes in 68 about not knowing how Eddie confirmed is questionable since it really was nothing other than RVS warlgebargle in the first place that he didn’t confirm in thread.

There is a bunch of stuff in 115 I agree with and can see from a Town perspective. And I still don’t see a reason to scum read 125.

And I agree with his thoughts at 202 re: OldMan backpedaling on the notion that Eddie was a scum-driven wagon.

Now 346 is the first post where I’m seeing something that smells of scum here and that is some Cogdis between the following …

He's not saying he had any actual suspicion of Eddie at all (unless he is saying that Magna's joke vote was an actual reason)

but he left his vote there until #192

(which was well after the wagon went away, and anything that he might have "gotten" from it was done.)

Bolded for emphasis – he’s dinging KMD for not moving his vote from RVS (in effect) fast enough when he’s just recently been defending his own “vote-parking” as not scummy and something that is, for lack of a better term, a “fake-news scumtell”.

Sure. The only distinction I'll make is that this

was

supposedly a "rvs" vote (at least, this is what it looked like at the time, given Eddie hadn't even posted yet), giving him less reason to keep it there. That's not so big a deal. But when I asked him about it, it seemed like he then tried to say that it wasn't so much a RVS vote as a vote to push the biggest wagon and see what "we" could get out if it. He never actually said that in #192, though, which was the post he actually analyzed the wagon in. I'm not really dinging him for not voting/moving his vote per se. KMD actually didn't vote anyone until #371 (which I just noticed right now, amusingly enough, because I didn't care about it)

Also not a fan of 399. I can see Town wanting to know why I have a Pine Town read when he’s apparently Axel’s top scum candidate but the point about me “not talking about Pine” feels a bit dirty when Axel himself has had little to nothing to say about Pine for some time either.

Dirty? Really? This post is 100% me trying to suss you out, Magna, not me trying to push anything on Pine. Because I did have a legitimate question about where your Town-ish read was coming from, given that I wasn't seeing anything remotely townish and also that you hadn't previously said anything about it.

Finally two more general points – on ISO re-read I don’t have the same strength of feeling that this is Town scum-hunting. There seems to my eye to be a disproportionate amount of posts that are “defense of self / others (like Firebringer)” as opposed to pushing scum suspects. And I’ve seen multiple cases of Axel saying “I need to read said person” that have never materialized.

I will cop to defense of self, in as much as I try to respond to questions tossed my way, and I virtually always respond to "cases" even if it's to dismiss them out of hand. What I might not respond to is a naked vote on me for no stated reason. Responding to a case on someone else is more hit-and-miss whether I do it. Depending on (1) how strongly I feel about it and/or (2) what else I'm doing in life. Also (and I'm not looking back at what I said before) sometimes when I say I need to re-read someone, it's just that, me saying this is something I need to do, and is not me promising to write up a review of said person or share my thoughts. If I make a promise then I virtually always try to do it, so sometimes I make promises in the thread to literally make myself do something I've been putting off. Other times I'll still share an opinion. I try to be transparant about such things, but it doesn't always happen, and I've been slacking on this game a lot especially lately.

That combined with his calling Firebringer effectively “too scummy to be scum” and I don’t feel back giving Rofl my vote right now.

VOTE: Axel

Still feel KMD is scummy but getting no traction there.

So, this is just my biggest concern about Magna, who I have a lot of respect for as a player, and it's that he's been kind of pushing some weak cases, and some of his reads just seem off to me. And, I mean, I've said and will say that weak cases are kind of the norm on D1, so, it's isn't so much his doing it as maybe his acting like they are stronger than they are. I have a feeling he's just one of those people I'm probably never going to get a strong read on though because I'm always going to be paranoid.

And I know some other people had questions, so I'll try to get to those next.

[Tammy]

Axelrod - have you not been scum in two years? Am I missing something? Will you tell me your last one?

In other news, he still seems fine. I don’t see the corps-dis you guys are over the vote. It looks like he’s wondering why kmd kept his vote on an rvs wagon that got big rather than getting after someone for leaving their vote there. I don’t think wondering why someone left their vote on an rvs wagon is cogdus because he still has his vote on pine, who he’s stated is his biggest suspect. It doesn’t feel weird that he didn’t move it while also having other suspects because you only have one vote. (And if anything if axel was scum, him casing kmd but still voting pine would actually make me think kmd partner instead of line partner, because I recently caught scum doing that - casing their partner and punting away from voting that wagon). I don’t agree with the championing the Eddie wagon conclusion either.

So eh, meh. If he tells me where to look, I’ll look through his scum game to see if there’s a difference in style between alignments, but he seems fine.

[Tammy]

Erm Ginngie can you talk about what specifically you like about Lycanfire? Because I just skimmed, very briefly, two of his scum games - DBZ and Darkest Dungeon mafia, and while I did not do a proper actual meta dive, he doesn't look like he's unable to give content when scum. I was expecting to see a Creature type situation based on what you said, and I'm not, so what gives?

[Axelrod]

I am making a note to myself to look closer @Cooldogs #610, but I am not reading it for reals right now.

[Axelrod]

While I do agree with what rofl is saying when I discussed his issues with axel, I do have this suspicions of rofl and I'm having trouble putting my full faith into his case because of that.

So, exactly what part of what rolf is saying do you agree with? All of it?

Axel, what's your

read

on rofl? You've never mentioned it one way or the other.

My read is that he's tunneling hard while not being at all interested in actually engaging me. That's sort of surface scummy, but it's something Town can also do, particularly if they're otherwise disengaged from the game. Or just like to go by their "gut." Which it also feels like he has been and could be doing. So, he's probably like "bottom half" in terms of people I like, but not "bottom three." What's frustrating is him just saying "lynch Axel" "Lynch Axel" for the same (non) reasons, and then blithely ignoring when I respond to him. That's going to put me on tilt as much as anything.

On Axelrod

I have lukewarm feelings about the slot because he scumread both Chamber and Pine. My question to him was a lead off to put how he rationalized the two slots alignments for when I made my next post. I didn't get a response.

If you're talking about my read on the "Chamber" slot, I did give that, when I talked about Tammy. I have no idea what you are talking about as far as rationalizing the "two slots" alignment.

If our back and forth didn't satisfy you, why didn't you respond to my last post directed at you?

Well my recollection is that I looked at that post and decided there wasn't much in there to follow up on, except for where you said you'd be interested in seeing the places where Tywin was over-generalizing and mis-repping. And that's fair, except for what I already said which is that it would involve some kind of monster post for me to go through and post all that and I had zero energy for it.

I suppose it is still possible that could happen. Kind of depends on what I decide about Lycan, which I've not done yet.

Axelrod - have you not been scum in two years? Am I missing something? Will you tell me your last one?

I *think* the last time was, in fact, about 2 years ago, here. In "A Musical Mafia" (which I am not looking up to link to. But it started March 2016.) The only other place I've played is MTGS and I haven't been scum there in a while, I don't think. I think I've only played maybe 4-5 games total in the last two years.