Large Normal 212: Korts' Geriatrics - Game Over @1831

[Ginngie]

Today I learned my name was Josh

Also I will no longer vote Axel if he flips town at the end of day

[Korts]

Vote Count

(5) Lycanfire - hitogoroshi, Kison, insanity018, Old Man, Kmd4390
(4) Axelrod - roflcopter, ManaofIllusion, Pine, Ginngie
(2) hitogoroshi - CooLDoG, Firebringer
(1) Pine - Axelrod
(1) roflcopter - Eddie Cane
(1) MagnaofIllusion - Lycanfire

not voting:

Tammy

8 to lynch

Deadline is 6 PM EST on Monday the 28th of May.

I repeat. Deadline is in

4 days.

[insanity018]

@Ginngie, Alright, I see what you mean about Lycanfire's style being different as scum in that game. Do you have any experience with him as town?

yeah restrictive mafia
viewtopic.php?p=9149230&user_select%5B% ... 1#p9149230
He was town that game
The caveat to that data sample is mainly that it's bloody short.
The one thing you could still take away is that it does still show that he sticks to mafia alignment hunting questioning.
So yeah, still small sample of town game, but it still holds the water of what I'm trying to tell ya'll.

Yeah, extremely small given he only made 2 posts. I don't think that is lengthy enough to show that he 'sticks to mafia alignment hunting questioning'. The style of posts is also different to what he has done here.

Anyway. I'm still deciding whether I want to move to Axel. At this point I am leaning towards yes. I think he's one of the better lynches for the day & I am skeeved out by my company on the Lycan wagon.

Please elaborate? Who do you think is skeevy?

@Eddie Cane

, what's your read on Lycanfire?

@Magna

I apologise if you believe that I have purposefully misrepresented you. That was not my intention. That was the impression I got from reading your posts. Thanks for explaining your thought process.

Clearly, we have different views about how town or scum should respond to an IC Day 2 claim. I have talked about why pushing claimed tomorrow-IC today could potentially be scum-motivated. I haven't even tried to portray that you are scummy before.

I did think about possible scum-motivation - easy way to look busy, or distancing if you were buddies with Old Man and knew he would be lynched tomorrow. I don't think that is what is happening here though.

Do you disagree that this is possible scum motivation?

[insanity018]

I've re-read Axelrod. I'm not interested in lynching there.

In terms of the cases of vote parking, I don't love the fact that Axel has just had his vote on Pine for the whole time. That said, I'm not convinced of the case that it is scum-motivated. True, Axelrod hasn't been moving his vote around a lot, but he's still been engaging with other players and is continuing to scumread/push Pine. I think I can see Axel's reasoning process and how he is making certain conclusions.

Looking at Magna's case in 638, I really dislike the case. The main reasons Magna starts to scumread Axel are:

Now 346 is the first post where I’m seeing something that smells of scum here and that is some Cogdis between the following …

He's not saying he had any actual suspicion of Eddie at all (unless he is saying that Magna's joke vote was an actual reason)

but he left his vote there until #192

(which was well after the wagon went away, and anything that he might have "gotten" from it was done.)

Bolded for emphasis – he’s dinging KMD for not moving his vote from RVS (in effect) fast enough when he’s just recently been defending his own “vote-parking” as not scummy and something that is, for lack of a better term, a “fake-news scumtell”.

Also not a fan of 399. I can see Town wanting to know why I have a Pine Town read when he’s apparently Axel’s top scum candidate but the point about me “not talking about Pine” feels a bit dirty when Axel himself has had little to nothing to say about Pine for some time either.

Finally two more general points – on ISO re-read I don’t have the same strength of feeling that this is Town scum-hunting. There seems to my eye to be a disproportionate amount of posts that are “defense of self / others (like Firebringer)” as opposed to pushing scum suspects. And I’ve seen multiple cases of Axel saying “I need to read said person” that have never materialized.

That combined with his calling Firebringer effectively “too scummy to be scum” and I don’t feel back giving Rofl my vote right now.

VOTE: Axel

The point about Axel's scumread and cogdis of KMD seems misrepresentative. Axel says that KMD is scummy for leaving his vote on Eddie (without having suspicion of Eddie). This is different as Axel has maintained for a long time that he thinks Pine is scum.

On 399 - That was just a question Axel asked for Magna to explain a read, Axel didn't try to suggest that Magna was scummy for not talking about Pine. I can't see what would be "dirty" about this post.

How is calling Firebringer "too scummy to be scum" a justification for scumreading him.

Before making this post, Magna felt that there was no chance of Axel getting lynched today and had been generally following Tammy's townread of Axel. I don't think that the points identified by Magna can justify the read switch. This case has many holes in it at best and is misrepresentative at worst. I could see this case as an attempt to justify Magna changing his read on Axel to capitalise on the growing suspicion/momentum against Axel. So, Magna is now sliding back towards the scummy side for me.

--
Strongest townreads on: Tammy, Eddie Cane
Do not want to lynch: Axelrod

Most want to lynch: Lycanfire, roflcoptor
Could support lynching: Firebringer, Magna

[roflcopter]

axel scum power, insanity goon, you heard it here first

[Ginngie]

This posts feels weird. You're making it sound like you're not one of the people who dislike Tywin and it feels like you're wanting to give Lycan an opportunity to defend himself.

You're making it sound like you're not one of the people who dislike Tywin and it feels like you're wanting to give Lycan an opportunity to defend himself.

you're not one of the people who dislike Tywin and it feels like you're wanting to give Lycan an opportunity to defend himself.

who dislike Tywin and it feels like you're wanting to give Lycan an opportunity to defend himself.

it feels like you're wanting to give Lycan an opportunity to defend himself.

wanting to give Lycan an opportunity to defend himself.

What the actual fuck? In no way should this be a criticism and frankly I'm very bloody confused how you take issue with Fire for doing that.

[Axelrod]

axel scum power, insanity goon, you heard it here first

MAGA!

[roflcopter]

cool defense axel

[roflcopter]

(ad hominem, when you can't actually defend yourself you impugn the intelligence of your attacker by... calling them a trump supporter?)

bernie would have won

[Axelrod]

I mean, ffs, rolf's hypocrisy is just astounding. He's been calling me scum since post #63 of this game. Sure, his

vote

has bounced around a few time, but his

read

has apparently never waivered in the slightest. The entire game.

Like, it boggles the mind.

[Axelrod]

cool defense axel

Are you suggesting you have actually made a case?

When was that? That would have been cool to see.

Wait, was it that time you pulled up quotes of me expressing suspicions of people?

Yeah, that was a cool case.

[Ginngie]

I find this problematic that you are reading it as scum-scum.

Why would a scumbuddy interfere with another scumbuddy's push?

Maybe if you had a join date of today, this post would be excusable.

I'm just saying it's really inexcusable to go along with this line of thinking because you're holding this frankly odd premise that scum will only act a certain way and be bloody honest here. If this were true, this game would be super easy to play as town now wouldn't it?


Now what's fucking hilarious

is that is the last post you've made this game relevant to expressing your concerns about Lycan

you have no actual stated issues with Lycan, and what little you do, is of pathetic reasoning that belongs in the newbie queue.

Honestly given, the evidence brought to you given Lycan!town surmounting what little you have supporting Lycan!scum, your vote is unjustified and should immediately be revoked.

[Axelrod]

(ad hominem, when you can't actually defend yourself you impugn the intelligence of your attacker by... calling them a trump supporter?)

bernie would have won

See, and I did "defend" myself already. Muptiple times. Every "point" he made. Rolf

completely ignored

my responses to him. Like wind through the trees (or in this case through his head). So for him to post this, as though I

wasn't

defending myself. Smugly asserting I can't defend myself is just...gah.

I'll have you all be aware, these are my polite, restrained and tactful replies. You should be thanking me.

[roflcopter]

no give us the juicy stuff that's what we want to see before you swing

[roflcopter]

or just appeal to how much more you'll do on day two with some flips again while you cling to your solo pine vote

[roflcopter]

you may repeat yourself on the "roflcopter hasn't actually made a case" talking point some more if you like as well, you're not the one i'm trying to convince to vote for you after all

it's ironic that you keep pulling from trump's playbook while saying i'm acting like a red pill maga mook

[roflcopter]

i also like to work with some flips, for example i'm really stoked to lynch insanity once we see your name in red

[Pine]

i also like to work with some flips, for example i'm really stoked to lynch insanity once we see your name in red

I'm starting to feel it too.

[Eddie Cane]

Prodge.
not playing this game right now.

I support the votes on hito.

reads havent changed

self reminder: look back at fire's posts and try to actually read them

<3

Here & reading up now. Realistically, I don't see myself voting anyone besides Axel or staying on Lycan at this point. I like the composition of the Axel wagon better but feel better about Lycan being scum, so going to focus on Axel in catching up.

Found rofl's buddy ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

But to expand on that why is Lycan making a couple posts with content enough to make him solid town but almost everyone else with content you’re just mixed about?

has it been established yet its a meta read or does that come later

My read is that he's tunneling hard while not being at all interested in actually engaging me. That's sort of surface scummy, but it's something Town can also do, particularly if they're otherwise disengaged from the game. Or just like to go by their "gut." Which it also feels like he has been and could be doing. So, he's probably like "bottom half" in terms of people I like, but not "bottom three." What's frustrating is him just saying "lynch Axel" "Lynch Axel" for the same (non) reasons, and then blithely ignoring when I respond to him. That's going to put me on tilt as much as anything.

iirc you have a lot of experience with rofl - how does this jive with how town!him or scum!him has treated you in the past?

The thing with Lycan is that he's playing the opposite of what I know of him in DBZ and he was scum in DBZ so I see town here.

Meh. In team mafia he wasn't really posting like he is here either, and he was town there. Maybe cause he had our discord :shrug: I will amend he was the last person on our team we would've given scum too 'cept maybe JJ

Here’s the thing – I do think it isn’t out of the realm of possibility for hypo-scum Eddie to look at the current playerlist and thinkg “AtE will net me Town reads”. Or at least draw more net Town reads than negative reactions. You are very in touch with emotional play and KMD has made it clear he gets that more than my more emotionally muted approach. And I think players like Fire, Lycan and Gin clearly might expect it from Eddie. So I’m not willing to not at least think about it.

as said, its very obvious looking at this playerlist this is not a game to spam AtE in. most people here are like 30+ and would just policy lynch it. also, you cited fire, lycan, and gin... 2 of those weren't in the game and fire is probably the singular least influential person in the original playerlist.

I still don’t like your Town reads that I don’t think are warranted.

Firebringer for example – I don’t think there is anything in his ISO that warrants Town reading that slot from a the perspective of an uninformed Town player.

Yet you just confirmed you have a soft Town read on the slot. Why?

lol'd

the problems with KMD's reads aren't the impossibility of thinking the dastardly firebringer is town

oh i remember one thing now

more axel votes please!!!

lol'd

[MagnaofIllusion]

Phone post - I will be back to answer Kisons questions and make some points on Axel and Insanity tonight.

But this following bit needs pointed out immediately regarding Insanity. Look back at these last few posts where she suspects me and note the very important thing that is missing -

Insanity is voting Lycan and just put him in his most want to lynch list. So ostensibly he thinks Lycan is scum.

I’m voting Axel and my vote I think is the real reason that wagon got any momentum.

But is Insanity making the logical point that someone who sees a counter wagon forming to their scum read on someone they think is Town - that I could be scum pushing a counter to scum Lycan to save him?

Nope that reasonable Town perspective is nowhere to be seen. Instead there is a post slapped together attacking my review of Axels ISO.

Reeks of scum perspective and would happily lynch Insanity after these latest posts also.

[Axelrod]

you may repeat yourself on the "roflcopter hasn't actually made a case" talking point some more if you like as well, you're not the one i'm trying to convince to vote for you after all

it's ironic that you keep pulling from trump's playbook while saying i'm acting like a red pill maga mook

Sadly, see, I'm still not convinced that you are scum despite your lazy ineptness, so there's this tiny part of me that keeps thinking, hey, if this guy will just engage, he'll have to come to his senses.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I know, right?

I also know I'm completely burning that bridge insulting you, because pop psychology 101 is that when you insult the guy attacking you all it makes him do it dig down harder, fight-or-flight response (like when you try to challenge a Trump supporter's beliefs, see? Logic and reason goes completely out the window)

I can't help it though. You're being too annoying. Sorry.

[Eddie Cane]

@Ginngie, Alright, I see what you mean about Lycanfire's style being different as scum in that game. Do you have any experience with him as town?

guess we haven't got to meta yet

but yea

that game is really different than here which is true

Lycan, what exactly is your catchup process? It looks like you're still far back because all of the post numbers you cite are pretty low. I can understand checking the current thread for questions and then going back, but why on earth would you spend so much time explicating your read on Axel based on your limited context? I mean, wouldn't that be pretty wasted effort if in post 300 or whatever Axel dropped some giant scum tell? It's the same thing with your Pine/chamber theory - you're spending a lot of time pushing it to us in the thread currently, whereas I would think that it's a more productive use of time to do "part 2" of the catchup instead of looping back to defend "part 1".

ye

excuse me while i continue to townread eddie, lynch axel without him and give no shits about what he thinks of me

(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

I have no interest in an axel lynch though!

This is the least fun flaming piece of shit I've ever taken part in.

welcome to the jungle

1) WHY THE FUCK AM I TOLD TO READ THE THREAD EVERY TIME I TRY TO CONTRIBUTE?

Not told. Asked. It is hard to follow your process because you seemingly erratically are responding to things.

i kept going. taking notes from my replace in and from where i was in the thread. these answers never materialized.

Actually, your style should enjoy this game pace no? I know how you do your god-sorting and less posts makes it WAY more feasible.

I started out trying to contribute, only to be tossed aside by one of the people I townread the most, tunneled on by another person I townread. Who was being tunneled on by someone that can't do anything better beyond tunnel an IC claim and tell me to read the thread. As for who Josh pushes at any given time, I haven't a fucking clue considering he went from shading Hitogorishi to becoming best buds with him.

Where did I shade Hito and where did I become best buds with him? I don't think I've given a strong stance on him all game. If you're talking about me, I didn't toss you to the side, I'm waiting to see what you come up with when you're done slogging through. I've been very clear about who I'm pushing as well.

I spent more time thinking about trying to read this game than I spent actually reading it. I kept being promised answers that never appeared. Here's a hint to not being horseshit town: when you see something scummy, you don't keep reading and trying to sort the person. You put noose around their neck because they legitimately have to die. The more information you have, the more likely you are to gain a shit read. I can give numerous examples of how I picked a player out early game doing scummy things as scum and tunnel them. Even worse is getting talked out of it. Do I tunnel towns too? Not nearly as often. Towns town up, scums are scum.

I mean yea

as KTS says, MS wolves are shit and you can catch a lot of them in the floundering early game and right before a lynch / twilight. the middle stuff they're usually better at. but you do need to keep trying to sort them. I told you you were too tunnelled on Dan and Quick.

703 Josh "Hurry up and catch up properly loser I've explained it at least a bit. "

I do not identify as Ginngie

If shit stinks why don't you vote it?

hmm

Maybe

because you can't just vote every random post you fos?

ginngie i think you're town but you're being sucked into shit reasoning. thanks for the town case but can you vote scum that isn't axel.

sources needed

Vote Count

(5) Lycanfire - hitogoroshi, Kison, insanity018, Old Man, Kmd4390
(4) Axelrod - roflcopter, ManaofIllusion, Pine, Ginngie
(2) hitogoroshi - CooLDoG, Firebringer
(1) Pine - Axelrod
(1) roflcopter - Eddie Cane
(1) MagnaofIllusion - Lycanfire

not voting:

Tammy

8 to lynch

Deadline is 6 PM EST on Monday the 28th of May.

I repeat. Deadline is in

4 days.

I hate this votecount. Somebody should ELI5 why I should want to vote Axel or Lycan.

@Eddie Cane, what's your read on Lycanfire?

He hit a lot of what I was hoping town!him would, and I haven't seen his scum game but yes this looks wildly different from Ginngie's citation. Tywin was scummish, I lean town on the slot atp though pending on what Lycan comes up with. The biggest pings I have from him are his anger tbqh, I don't understand what pissed him off so much and this isn't the arrogant (in a good way) cool collectd LYcan

[Axelrod]

Also, if you ARE scum, I will take back everything bad I have said about you at the end of the game with no hard feelings at all. Because in that case, you'd simply be doing a fine job.

I actually kind of hope that's the case now.

[Eddie Cane]

This posts feels weird. You're making it sound like you're not one of the people who dislike Tywin and it feels like you're wanting to give Lycan an opportunity to defend himself.

You're making it sound like you're not one of the people who dislike Tywin and it feels like you're wanting to give Lycan an opportunity to defend himself.

you're not one of the people who dislike Tywin and it feels like you're wanting to give Lycan an opportunity to defend himself.

who dislike Tywin and it feels like you're wanting to give Lycan an opportunity to defend himself.

it feels like you're wanting to give Lycan an opportunity to defend himself.

wanting to give Lycan an opportunity to defend himself.

What the actual fuck? In no way should this be a criticism and frankly I'm very bloody confused how you take issue with Fire for doing that.

lol

Also, if you ARE scum, I will take back everything bad I have said about you at the end of the game with no hard feelings at all. Because in that case, you'd simply be doing a fine job.

I actually kind of hope that's the case now.

..wat

did i miss some personal slight

[Old Man]

I’ve been very busy and will post more content in the next few days when I’m more available.

For now:

Axel

- Any reason why you aren’t voting Lycan? There’s an obvious scum-motivated counterwagon to save Lycan, and your top scumread roflcopter is the leader. I cannot understand why your vote is parked on Pine. Please correct this.

Tammy

- The same for you. Lycan is your top scumread, it puzzled me why your vote isn’t on him, and instead is still Not Voting.

Eddie Cane

- Your top scumread roflcopter is hard pushing a desperate counterwagon to save my top scumread. You scratch my back, I scratch yours. Given that a Lycan lynch goes through (and he flips red), I guarantee the extermination of the bad bunny tomorrow. I need your vote to make it a hammer. Please join us.


I can’t believe we actually made the full month of the deadline. Mainly people being inactive.