Mini Normal 2016 | Otters vs. Penguins | Endgame

[Tchill13]

alright i'll be back in a bit i expect a full wagon on performer and those who don't participate are his scum buddies lol.

[Garmr]

also @garmr

not sewing myself. We have similar reads. I just wanted a reason.

if you don't think im coming from a town place thats fine. My style is weird d1 and this is a major change up. I haven't put effort into a d1 in idk how long but i wanted to see how i'd do. I will try to be transparent for others though. all i ask is you TRY look at my motivations not my style.

I can give you a reason every scum player should know.

Similar reads doesn't = same alignment. You could have a townie and someone who's scum have the same votes/reads out an entire game.

Also i'm looking past your style to look for intentions which is why attributed it TO them.

-The fact you have the emphasise your town read may change isn't to do with intentions.
-Showing uncertainty in a comment into a hard town read so you can vote them latter is looking into intentions
-Latter asking why aren't I closer to BBT makes it seem like you have some untown intentions.

[Garmr]

VOTE: performer

You shown you have reads why vote someone who hasn't posted since rvs and with out explanation?

idk you tell me? what POSSIBLE reason could i have for stating my reads then naked voting someone not on that list? could it be to form a new read? maybe to poke a lurker and see how they react?

im not making fun. the level of simple questions is pretty high in this game. idk what you expect me to say that you couldn't possibly figure out on your own.

letting ppl slide through d1 isn't how to play d1.

It's only the first day in real time I wouldn't call him a lurker. You also don't vote people to form reads you ask them questions, blank votes do nothing. Do people have no patience on mafia scum anymore? But if getting a reaction was your purpose you got a reaction out of me.

[PenguinPower]

Votecount 1.05

teacher

(3): BlueBloodedToffee, wavemode, Gustavo

Performer

(2): Nosferatu, Tchill13

BlueBloodedToffee

(2): ByronVilla, teacher

Garmr

(1): Performer

Gustavo

(1): Lefty

ByronVilla

(1): Gosrir Elmer Odels

Invisibility

(1): Garmr

Tchill13

(1): Tommy Egan

Not Voting

(1): Invisibility

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-06-25 14:45:00)

Mod Notes:

• Performer V/LA on weekends
• teacher V/LA on weekends

[Invisibility]

i feel like otters are being unfairly represented

[Invisibility]

Garmr's probably town

[Gustavo]

We can talk scum reads too if you want. I’m really just looking for any sort naunced read other than arguing the ~obvious logical standpoints you are currently. You just read calculated to me, hard to describe beyond saying gut vibes.

Well that was kind of a test. I wanted to see how truly interested you were with knowing my town reads. I was hoping when I said you could find them by reading my posts you’d actually go look. You not doing that makes me feel like the request was rhetorical.

I guess you can say I’m being a little calculating, I feel that is a fair assessment of how I’ve been acting.

[Gustavo]

scum don't have to make byron look bad. It's also easier for scum to let town make other town look bad. Scum usually just want to look town. thats it.

Oh I agree. If Byron is town he’s done a fantastic job at setting himself up for a mislynch at some point. He also could be scum but based what I’ve seen I’m good with leaving him alone.

[Lefty]

We can talk scum reads too if you want. I’m really just looking for any sort naunced read other than arguing the ~obvious logical standpoints you are currently. You just read calculated to me, hard to describe beyond saying gut vibes.

Well that was kind of a test. I wanted to see how truly interested you were with knowing my town reads. I was hoping when I said you could find them by reading my posts you’d actually go look. You not doing that makes me feel like the request was rhetorical.

I guess you can say I’m being a little calculating, I feel that is a fair assessment of how I’ve been acting.

It wasn’t rhetorical, but okay. Off the top I know you said BBT/BV looks T/T. You kinda negged Wave for giving a reads list. You’ve been questioning Invis and you’re wagoning Teacher.

I didn’t need to go through your ISO to piece that together.

[Lefty]

Also I retract my earlier statement about Tommy’s #144 being good.

[Lefty]

Meta this. Meta that. Meta Everything. Meta is not a good scum-hunting tool. PEOPLE CAN MANIPULATE THEIR META. Stop it. Stop. It. Now.

I agree with this. But then why this:

Unfortunately, secret alts are all over the place. I'd sooner policy lynch em all!

VOTE: BV

107 is a commentary. Provides no information, communicates nothing, asks nothing, leads to nothing. So why make such a long post?

GEO, can you expand on these two reads and what you think they mean?

[Performer]

invis: The vote on bbt looked opportunistic. Just randomly sheeped byron at that point, later on pg 5 gets on the wagon on teacher.
VOTE: invisibility

Gustavo: "I’m down for a fast day. I’m getting ready to play a game that ends in 36 hours so I need practice"

FOS: gustavo

This post just screams of suspicion. There's a difference between too fast & too slow.
How can you say this and think We can get something substantial in a fast day of 36 hours?
That's like saying "oh let's quickhammer." If you get lucky, you get a scum flip, if you get unlucky, you get a town pr flip.

Bbt: asked people to follow him in the wagon on lefty - see below for the read on lefty. Said byron was scum. I don't see why. He's null more than anything to me.

Lefty: posting gives me a town tone such as the ones where he asks questions, like the one posed to Nos about the point of his post. I also like his interrogation of bbt on pg 4.

Byron: not sure what to make of his interaction with bbt on pgs 5-6.

Garmr: rvs voted him because he was the last one to the game - hence I suspected him lurking. Shows up, omgus votes me & said I was buddying someone??, later puts up a sharp interrogation post to chill, on pg 4. His questioning and other posts, make me think he's got a sensible head on his shoulders in figuring out the game.

Chill: voted me & mentioned pushing a lurker... what in the? I’ve posted literally just yesterday when the game first began. What’s your definition of lurking?
I like his posting overall, he certainly is proactive like bbt. But other posts like not wanting to lynch specific people, posts like that make me wonder wth? If anything, I'll chalk it up to personal bias, as I have biases too on fm.

Teacher: voted bbt since he didn’t provide reasoning….but it was only pg 3 by that time.

---------------
That's what I got so far.

[Gustavo]

Gustavo: "I’m down for a fast day. I’m getting ready to play a game that ends in 36 hours so I need practice"
FOS: gustavo
This post just screams of suspicion. There's a difference between too fast & too slow.
How can you say this and think We can get something substantial in a fast day of 36 hours?
That's like saying "oh let's quickhammer." If you get lucky, you get a scum flip, if you get unlucky, you get a town pr flip.

What is suspicious about the truth? https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/17212

There are also other sites that play with really fast deadlines, they also have marathon games on this site don’t they? MafiaScum used to have like 20 minute deadlines.

Don’t fos me because something is foreign to you and for something that isn’t even AI.

Hopefully I’ll have a completed game soon tht shows that. I also have a completed game that shows fast days can not only reveal 1 scum, but 2.

Lastly, you shouldn’t be worries about losing PRs. You shouldn’t even depend on them at all. Have faith in your own abilities.

Now I have to write you off as scum or VI.

[teacher]

So, if there is anything I have learned on this site so far, it is that I don’t yet get the meta of short posts and brief analysis and, as a result, my reads suck. Like bad. My last game, ALL of my scum reads were town. So please take these reads for the exact two cents they are worth, and I welcome any thoughts on how to make them better.

1. Wave is my hardest townread. I like his reads (mostly) and when he has gotten them. I like that he is explaining them and trying to convince town without pushing. I don’t see scum motivations for any of the posts, including those acknowledging valid points of suspicion on him.

2. I genuinely don’t know what to make of BBT v. Byron. I disagree with Byron’s scumreading asshattery, as I think scum would want to be liked, but much of that is playstyle rather than alignment anyway (asshats will be asshats, etc). I townread most of Byron’s posts in this spat, especially what seems like a genuine youthful appeal for information. On the other side, I don’t understand why BBT kept pushing a Lefty wagon past when it seemed like reaction testing would make sense, but I also don’t think scum!BBT wants the attention he has been getting for it and for being an ass. TvT if I had to call it, but if one is scum it is BBT (who is properly categorized as a null in point 4, just included here for discussion with Byron).

3. My remaining and weaker townleans go to Lefty and Performer, in order. If Performer hadn’t made 211, which I like, he’d be down somewhere between 5 and 6 for the earlier buddying.

4. Several others are posting content, but still null for me: Garmr, TChill, BBT, Invis. These are listed in the order in which I think I have a feel for their thought processes, even if I don’t have a confident read of their alignment/motives yet.

5. My strongest scumread is on Gustavo. Seems to be hopping around to the inflection point of wagons but has been holding back reasoning. I don’t like the way he backhanded my question about Tchill-BBT, but then criticized Lefty for backhanding his own question. FWIW, I asked the question because I had no idea what to make of the Tchill-BBT interactions, but found it bizarrely strong buddying for early in the game.

6. And then there are the low-post lurkers. In my experience on this site, at least one scum is in this pool: GEO, Nosferatu, Tommy Egan

VOTE: Gustavo

[Lefty]

How do you link post numbers?

[teacher]

[ post ] ### [ / post ] - no spaces. I believe just p works instead of post too, but not sure.

[Lefty]

Cool, thanks.

I like your take on the roster. I’m in a pretty similar spot

[Tchill13]

That performer wagon is coming along...

[Garmr]

-The fact you have

to

emphasise your town read may change,

is

to do with intentions.

Fixed

[Nosferatu]

Gustavo: "I’m down for a fast day. I’m getting ready to play a game that ends in 36 hours so I need practice"
FOS: gustavo
This post just screams of suspicion. There's a difference between too fast & too slow.
How can you say this and think We can get something substantial in a fast day of 36 hours?
That's like saying "oh let's quickhammer." If you get lucky, you get a scum flip, if you get unlucky, you get a town pr flip.

thats a little hurr durr dontcha think?

[ByronVilla]

Oh yeah Nosferatu you got any reads yet or not? (and if so can you give us some?)

[Nosferatu]

not saying you couldn't

Was there a point you were trying to make here?

its your tone

Oh yeah Nosferatu you got any reads yet or not? (and if so can you give us some?)

no but ill read the past few pages and get back to you

[Nosferatu]

Im actually kind of inclined to agree. Last time I played with Town!BBT, they pushed a mislynch (me, grrrr) several times, but at least provided reasoning.
VOTE: BBT.

thats literally just not a reason to vote someone. RVS wagon is not a mislynch.

There may be something that tells me you're town - but I want to ignore it for now.

OK now my vote is serious.

ok uhh, back it up, why does scum say that? They don't, move on. Withholding information argument is dumb and never applicable in like 90% of circumstances.

Im actually kind of inclined to agree. Last time I played with Town!BBT, they pushed a mislynch (me, grrrr) several times, but at least provided reasoning.

VOTE: BBT.

BBT - strongest scum/town read, why, and +rand on it?

now this could be scum... You really expect a reason for pushing a wagon before page 5?

VOTE: teacher

^^

Meta this. Meta that. Meta Everything. Meta is not a good scum-hunting tool. PEOPLE CAN MANIPULATE THEIR META. Stop it. Stop. It. Now.

I agree with this. But then why this:

Unfortunately, secret alts are all over the place. I'd sooner policy lynch em all!

bad post
VOTE: GEO

bad post.

VOTE: BV

107 is a commentary. Provides no information, communicates nothing, asks nothing, leads to nothing. So why make such a long post?

wtf are the votes in this game. We voting for commentary now?

Ok I also wanna join in on this 1 scum 1 town read thing we're doing.

Townread: Lefty - Can really follow the thought process in a lot of his posts, and I like his reaction to BBT's wagon.

Scumread: BBT - Says stuff with no reason, and then when asked to elaborate he just ignores them or makes a snarky comment. It's probably me having a personal gripe, but withholding information from town is one of the scummiest things you can do imo, and this is a prime example.

Pedit: Key word: Withholding. You're keeping information that could help the town away from the town, just to strengthen your push on Lefty (which isn't even a thing but still the point stands) I may have said hiding at some point, in that case I apologize as I meant withholding.

ok uhh, its not one of the scummiest things you can do (see above)
its probably a personal gripe. That's what it looks like.

Jesus christ you just love using OMGUS don't you? Learn some respect jesus

It's definitely a personal gripe. That's what it looks like.

VOTE: ByronVilla
this is scum

bro

I play to win, not to survive.

you know you don't really have to choose. One is pretty in the way of the other.

VOTE: Invisibility His just opportunistically jumping on what wagon may take off. I see no real thought process of his own.

his thought process is the problem

it's like that stuff about calling BBT scum for being "an ass" i don't like

case in point

Bbt: asked people to follow him in the wagon on lefty - see below for the read on lefty. Said byron was scum. I don't see why. He's null more than anything to me.

Byron: not sure what to make of his interaction with bbt on pgs 5-6.

this just looks like you don't know who's on the right side of history yet

[Nosferatu]

{invis, GEO, performer} can go.

[Gustavo]

but has been holding back reasoning. I don’t like the way he backhanded my question about Tchill-BBT, but then criticized Lefty for backhanding his own question.

1. I don’t believe I’ve withheld reasons. Can you explain what you mean?
2. I don’t understand the next part. What backhanding have I done? I answered your question and I just pointed out lefty’s reasons were faulty and he was technically guilty of the same thing. Then again I’m not familiar with the term backhanding outside of tennis.

If anyone feels I haven’t explained something, they can always ask for clarification. I just did a training at work where we discussed active vs focused listening and asking clarifying questions is one of the keys to focused listening. Nobody has asked clarifying questions, not even yourself so it’s nit really fair to say I haven’t explained something if you haven’t asked for an explanation.