Mini Normal 2021: Game Over

[Nero Cain]

b/c it's not. You voted her right out of the gate and you want her dead so your question of "What benefit do i have from keeping oath in the game if im town and i think she's town?" doesn't really make any sense but I guess now you are claiming that you think she's town just bad town and she should be lynched b/c she wants to lynch you? I get your point now. Like I'm obviously going to say "if you are town and want to lynch town and that's bad town play." and I think you are going for something like "Well town me would want a bad town player gone and a scum me would also want her lynched. Its NAI and you can't use it against me! mwhahahaha!"

[Espeonage]

Votecount: Day 2 feat. Katy Perry

TChill13:

Nero Cain, Oath, Lalendra

Oath:

TChill13

Mumble:

Krazy

[Nero Cain]

Like there's a shit ton of scum motivation in being useless with your vote and trying to lynch "bad town". Who is scum, tchill?

[Tchill13]

Scum win by manipulating the game. A bad town is as good as a day pr for scum. Just another tool for scum to use. It is against my wincon to not do everything i can to put town in the best position to win.

there's a reason nobody can answer my question because ppl REFUSE to treat bad play as they should on this site.

As town Why would i want to be in lylo with oath if i feel shes town? its a simple question nobody can answer.

lets say im in lylo with oath. we're both town. 3 scum me oath and 2 townies. oath votes me. 3 scum vote me. scum win.

i have no reason to believe it would play out differently as oath as assured me thats what wpuld happen

why would i put myself in that situation as town?

because if that's the best you can get, you should take it. if it's 2v2 you've already lost anyway

"because if thats the best you can get" BOOM. THERE IT IS. THATS THE FLAW.

why is that the best i can get? we're on d2. I should be working to avoid a situation with oath in lylo right? Do i have more control of never reaching lylo or never reaching lylo with oath? Now which one shoul i take action to avoid?

i dont play to be in sitautions that are "the best i can get"

I play to put town in the "best situation possible" I actively work towards that days 1 2 and 3. Any competent mafia townies should be able to lynch scum with all that info and limited amount of bad townie baggage. Why shouldn't i work towards that? should i risk going all in on scum on days with limited info or should i work towards an atmosphere where its easy to lynch scum while lynching ppl that can actually still flip scum? I'll never lynch a conftown to get there. Oath isn't conftown.

You avoid "best you can get" by putting yourself in the best situation possible. Now again.

what do i beneft from having oath in this game if im town? i don't. i do not benefit at all even if she's town. She's not conftown. My push on her is justified GIVEN, this is the important part, GIVEN her play this game.

[Tchill13]

Like there's a shit ton of scum motivation in being useless with your vote and trying to lynch "bad town". Who is scum, tchill?

I said case me not oath. Did you read d1?

[Nero Cain]

all I'm asking for is 2 or 3 names. Y is that so hard?

[Tchill13]

all I'm asking for is 2 or 3 names. Y is that so hard?

you sound like me day 1 addressing oath. Go back and read please.

[Tchill13]

ins not 2v2 its 4v3 i outlined the situation.

[Nero Cain]

naw, i think I'll just lynch you instead.

[Tchill13]

You sound just like me pushing oath day 1. Ignorance is bliss and lazy townies are Scums best friend. Hope you're scum or your just as bad as oath here.

[Tchill13]

naw, i think I'll just lynch you instead.

And the ppl that have actually kept up with the game knows how ignorant that looks. At least gus does lol. Especially given the fact gus knows I'm town now.

[Tchill13]

Nero you've never answered a hypothetical?

[Nero Cain]

?????

[Tchill13]

Just answer the question. Even if you don't think it applies. You've spent more time not answering the question than it would have taken to answer it.

[Nero Cain]

the one about town you wanting to keep or not keep oath? Its obviously pointed but I feel I've successfully addressed it. I think you are trying to argue that a town you would want an (IYO) bad town gone and thus your push on Oath isn't scummy.

[Tchill13]

Why would ever town? My push is NAI

[Nero Cain]

yes, I get that you are trying to push that your push is NAI and if I tilt my head the exact right way I could see that. My problem is that you not pushing your scumreads (or even naming them!) does

NOT

make sense from a town POV. If today boils down to a question of "which bad town do we lynch?" then I'm obviously picking you. I await your response which boils down to "*whine* but the reasons you think I'm scum are NAI!"

[Tchill13]

Bad town? I'm sorry is oath conf town? I don't believe so. Looks like there's at least a decent chance she's scum here.

I named a SR. It's oath. Lynch oath. She's scum.

It doesn't make sense for me to put town in the best position for town to win? That's quite odd. Makes a lot of sense to me.

[Nero Cain]

Sorry, I have a hard time keeping track of your read on Oath with all the flip-flopping that you are doing. Who else is scum?

[Tchill13]

mumble.

[Tchill13]

please read the game if you're gonna accuse me of what oath is doing.

[Krazy]

Ladies and gentlemen of the town, I would now like to present: Krazy's Case against Mumble

Please, put on some relaxing music, and enjoy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPWVfCtnGyg
If you are like me, and have just gotten home after work, then perhaps blend yourself a smoothie. I recommend blueberries and oranges.

Now, let's summarize my main points against Mumble:
-Suspicious unvote
-Active lurking
-Unusually bad vote history
-The nightkill

These are in order of what I personally regard as most suspicious to least suspicious

Suspicious Unvote

We have seen a lot of anti-town behavior in this game already, all of which I put on a spectrum of "anti-town but not scummy" to "anti-town and scummy."

VT claims -- clearly anti-town and bad for town-sided power roles. But some people do genuinely find VT boring and I want to say this is NAI.

Fake dayvigs -- In principle, I see this as a sign of boredom and on the whole is NAI, albeit a bit anti-town since I think it's needlessly distracting. But I didn't particularly like the way that the worst did the fake dayvig... it seemed more like fake scumhunting/grooming on tacos than it did even a genuine expression of boredom. Still, I put this closer to NAI than other things on the spectrum.

Self-votes -- In principle, I feel like self-votes are anti-town and start to lean scummy. I don't know what was going on with osuka, but while town does sometimes self vote, I want to say in a game where it's 25% for a player to be mafia, I'd say a player is ~10% more likely to be scum after a self-vote. Not a huge scum-tell but on the scum side of anti-town.

Unvotes -- I feel like this is the scummiest of anti-town behaviors we've seen this game that you can do, particularly in early game. To sit with no vote from the 12th to the 16th means he was providing 0 pressure and 0 associations. Unvoting, particularly if it is starting to look like a wagon is forming on someone, can be a way to avoid major associative tells going into day 2. It's the type of behavior someone would make if they KNOW they will be alive on day 2. There are a lot of reasons for scum to unvote and a lot fewer reasons for town to do it. It draws little attention (usually) while also doing nothing for the town. Yes, sometimes town unvotes. But I want to say that I feel like scum unvotes early game and sits with no vote a solid 20% more frequently than a poorly playing member of the town.

Active Lurking

4 of his posts on the 8th were all fluff, which is a lot. While parking his vote on Ender, he asks ohfrz a really weak question in 221.
491 is weak, and 493 is really weak.

Is the worst just going to be class clown the entire game?

<--I'm a bit at a loss as to how town writes a post like this. So the fake dayvig is anti-town, but he's willing to accept the reaction from tacos as a sign that tacos is town?
Nothing he posted on the 17th, (Iso41+) has any use whatsoever.

Tommy is town, or two scum are on the wagon...though not a fan of Tchill's unvote right after.

Confused about Gustavo's vote switch and comment 764 769

Kinda want to lynch Gustavo 775

What is an "illegal claim" 776

Now I want to lynch the worst 777

Boris could be scum 824

833 Real?

Done trying to fully read 12 pages.

Gustavo is obviously town. Tchill is obviously town.

I'm fine lynching ceejay or osuka. Why is Boris strong town?

1078 is the most involved post for the slot so far, and despite having done a placeholder vote for the worst and thinking boris could be scum refuses to really engage him any more. If Mumble flipped town, I would look at boris since a lot of this feels like distancing without any real attempt to get a wagon going on what seems to be his top suspect. Despite having these fresh reads he does nothing with them and is okay lynching osuka? (who has his own vote as half the wagon for the entire day) or ceejay, conftown. The more I look at this post in context the less town it looks to me.

Unusually Bad Vote History

Vote 1 -- the worst. This is just a placeholder and is NAI. Maybe even distancing?
Vote 2 -- Conftown Enderphoenix. What I dislike about this is that there's no explanation given and so it seems like just another placeholder vote; this isn't meaningful scumhunting. Refusing to engage the new target means the target has nothing to respond to.
Vote 3 -- Votes Tommy for the sake of getting a wagon? And to sheep tchill? Tommy's slot didn't have a lot going on, sure, maybe getting some votes might provoke a reaction, but even to accomplish that this still seems weak. But to be clear, from my perspective, he has by this point done a placeholder and voted 100% conftown.
Vote 4 -- After parking his vote on Tommy for 3 days, without really doing anything with that vote to gain more information, he switches to conftown Gustavo. From my POV this is a placeholder and 0/3, and from anyone else's it's 0/2 + ?/1.
Vote 5 -- An unvote! On day 1, with most wagons floating at half steam, like he's afraid of having been too early on a town-sided lynch and wants to just sideline.
Vote 6 -- Conftown Ceejay. Now 0/4 for me and 0/3 + ?/1 for anyone else.

For day 1 fishing, this slot has come up with only town on its hooks. That's impressively bad luck if so.

The Nightkill

@mod: I retract replace out

I just won't be acknowledging any posts from Gustavo containing insults. I can manage that.

VOTE: Gustavo

Let's get a wagon going.

This is my weakest argument, I know, but I do think it's worth mentioning that if Mumble is scum it would be nearly 100% that Gus dies over Lalendra. Gus suspected Mumble, albeit at like a #2 or #3 spot, and I don't think it's impossible that Mumble would kill Gus for the sheer satisfaction of it, considering he was locked into Gus and Lalendra anyway.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: mumble

i'll stop messing with osuka, nero and oath. I doubt they ever understand or give in to my reasoning of the tunnel and what im trying to prove.

There's enough reason to lynch mumble here. Scum will never kill me or oath as long as we are both alive. I'm fine with this lynch.

lurking mumble and scum motivation equal scum mumble. Great breakdown krazy.

[Tchill13]

the vote history in particular is quite telling on top of the fact he's not sorting.

[ofrhz]

o what didn't realize day 2 had started