mini normal 2027: advice mafia (endgrame)

[Saudade]

Are you 100% sure you want to do this mate?

[Wh4t]

CT who did you reasonably expect to reply to post 80 and why? The whole thing seems pretty LAMIST.

[FA_Q2]

I doubt Radiant Cowbells is lying,since claiming in an unusual way like this could cause investigative roles to come after him at night. If he is scum, then that would be really bad for him. I don't know whether or not he's pulling some type of gambit though, I've read through a few games of his and he was always someone difficult to read.

How so?

There is no cop in this game. By drawing any other investigative roles to him, he can waste N1 investigative actions as all he has to do is not be the one doing the targeting. If there is a jail keeper, he has effectively made that role useless - trying to force the jail keeper to a known target gives the scum a free hand. That does not even take into account if the scum has a tracker which would make the claim a disaster. He does not even take this into account with his claim making this feel like he is not coming at this from a town mindset. How does he know that scum does not have a tracker? Hell, most scum roles will have a large advantage knowing likely town targets. All and all, this is a shit claim. I cant even see this as a gambit as VT trying to draw the night kill as claiming JK enabler would be the worst claim to make as you are directly asking to be made unkillable and lessening the chance that you are the target.

Hell, the only thing you might possibly get from this claim is more WIFOM which is, again, bad for town - it is such a bullshit claim.

So... If you doubt the claim, what alignment do you think I am and why did I make the claim when I did?

I think you are scum and are role fishing and/or trying to pull town night actions.

I can not really think of a solid town reason to make this claim when you are under NO DURESS at all. You are not likely to be the night one target (1/10) of a chance with no claim at all if you really were the JK enabler.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

Can anyone point to a prow town reason for this claim?

The only other read I have at this point is town for Completly Trustworthy. He basically pulled us out of RVS and is actively engaging people.

[FA_Q2]

Nice to see you again Skygazer.
Also, Wh4t, why did you change your vote?

From what little I can discern so far garmr seems fine. FA and yourself have the most awkward entrances imo.

Not sure what you expect from RVS. There was nothing scummy to go off at that point. RVS is always a shit show.

What is a 'natural' entrance than. How is my 'reason' different than horrors vote on CT?

[FA_Q2]

I Am Innocent, why don't you get the Saudade wagon? Both Havo and texcat explained their reasons for voting him in 75 and 71. Do you not agree with their reasoning? If so, then please explain why. As for me, I found Saudade's entrance very weird and would like to know why he felt the need to declare he was town right off the bat.


Now I have some questions to ask people
1. Please provide a link to completed games with you as scum and town
2. What do you believe is the optimal scumhunting strategy? What scumtells do you think are overrated?
3. How would you describe your playstyle as scum?
4. Do you enjoy being scum or town more?

My answers
1. I cannot provide links since I have only played one other game on this site and its ongoing
2. It's best to pay attention to what people have to say about others and whether their actions match up with their words. The ways in which players treat each other contains far more information than that which can be gained through observing the playstyles of individual players, which are all different and can be hard to read. Radiant Cowbells is an example of a player who is often mislynched due to acting really scummy(at least in the games I have read through.)
3. As scum, I try to get people who I think can be mislynched to create content which puts them further into trouble or allows me to present a case against them later. I always want a member of the town to be on the defensive, since that means little attention is paid to me. In addition, I try to post a lot, but prefer to avoid fluff. If I keep saying productive things or elaborate on my opinions, then eventually someone else will mess up naturally and I can capitalize on the opportunity.
4. I prefer being scum or third party the most because you are the active force in the game that everyone else is trying to stop, it is very fun to try to try and outwit all your competitors.

1. Just do a search on me. Handing you links certainly is not optimal - then I would get to chose the games that you are looking at. Bad idea if I were scum.
2. Don't think that there is an 'optimal' strat. Just engage people. The most overrated strat IMHO is meta. Meta is to easy to change and/or misinterpret. Another overrated strat here is activity. I find activity to tell very little if not combined with something more.
3. Considering that my goal has always been to play exactly the same (and I think that is most people's goal) so I would say the same. I think the only real difference in my scum game and my town game is that as scum I have to protect my team so my interactions will be fake with those players/less likely to engage with them.
4. I like scum WAY better. It is fun trying to deceive town. As town I feel like there is a lot of stabbing in the dark. Town is also far more likely so it is more like the 'average' role. Also, there is ALWAYS something scum can do - as a VT night phases are boring.

[FA_Q2]

you wouldnt know what's forced even if it hit you
VOTE: Skygazer

An OMGUS vote?

This is bullshit. I can get behind a Saudade wagon once RC is sorted. That claim is to scummy to let stand.

[FA_Q2]

3 bote wagon already! How interesting!

What is interesting is that you felt the need to comment on the wagon w/o taking a stance.

Active lurking...

[Wh4t]

FA have you played with RC before? He is almost always N1 NK or D1 mislynch. If the claim is legit then is it not optimal to claim it when you are someone who is very paranoid about being killed N1? You coming in with such certainty about the claim being false is slightly worrying. The JK doesn't have to protect him but he could and that WIFOM could be enough to keep RC from being targeted.

I disagree with your CT read completely, rushing out of RVS is not AI and in fact scum would most likely want to look proactive to get towncred. Most of his posts feel like posturing more than anything, like why would someone genuinely believe that players will post links to games for you instead of you doing the work yourself? It reads as LAMIST busy work to me.

So far IAI and CT are scumreads for me.
Null on pretty much everyone else but I want to believe RC is town.

VOTE: IAI

[FA_Q2]

FA have you played with RC before?

Yes I have. I find him a pretty a chaotic player and generally he does play anti-town if I remember correctly - as well as wild ass claims. That was years ago though so my experience is pretty irrelevant. I doubt that his play is going to remain utterly constant over that time.

He is almost always N1 NK or D1 mislynch. If the claim is legit then is it not optimal to claim it when you are someone who is very paranoid about being killed N1? You coming in with such certainty about the claim being false is slightly worrying. The JK doesn't have to protect him but he could and that WIFOM could be enough to keep RC from being targeted.

Again, what town mindset/goal comes from claiming that role. I cant think of a single pro town reason. If he pulled that role it would absolutely be anti-town to claim like that. Further, I cannot think of a town gambit (like drawing the NK) that would work with that claim.

Nothing of that claim comes from a town mindset IMHO. There is a LOT there that I can see coming from a scum mindset.

I disagree with your CT read completely, rushing out of RVS is not AI and in fact scum would most likely want to look proactive to get towncred.

Most of his posts feel like posturing more than anything, like why would someone genuinely believe that players will post links to games for you instead of you doing the work yourself? It reads as LAMIST busy work to me.

If all he did was move on from RVS then it would be totally neutral. What has he done that is posturing other than asking for links? Sure, asking for links is dumb and the other questions are pretty weak but questions generate content. Look at what we are doing now.

So far IAI and CT are scumreads for me.
Null on pretty much everyone else but I want to believe RC is town.

VOTE: IAI

You avoided my question to you and you seem to have only said things that you think make me scummy but then null read me. Why?

[Garmr]

I think FAQ is reaching a bit. He can be put in a null-scum list. If I was going to place a vote anytime soon I would place a vote on this slot.

Was reading saude newbie games. He omgused in newbie 1883 as scum, difference through it was a threat to vote not like a actual vote in this game. Couldn't really find a town game where he reacted the same way but I saw he got mislynched. So not entirely sure what to make of the slot but will add to my watch list.

I am still a bit cautious around I am Innocent because of my gut, But no matter if he is scum or town he is actually his coherency is pretty good, still early game through.

Will say this I don't think RC's actions are scummy and pretty null.

I like wh4t they gives me the fuzzy town feelings.

P:edit will read faq2 recent post after posting.

[Wh4t]

Nothing of that claim comes from a town mindset IMHO. There is a LOT there that I can see coming from a scum mindset.

I can see how it's anti-town but I think you're getting confused with anti-town vs scum mindsets. How does him claiming what he has help scum? He hasn't asked for the JK to claim, so I'm not sure how he would achieve role-fishing with the claim, and also he would leave all other PRs free to use their role on his buddy as they would avoid using it on RC with his claim as he may be Jailkept.

I'm not trying to hard defend RC but I just don't see how pulling this gambit benefits scum. It actually doesn't benefit either alignment except maybe a very paranoid town!RC, who thinks he's keeping the JK active by claiming. From my recent experience with RC, this isn't as far fetched as scum!RC outing himself for no obvious benefit. I would prefer if we did the normal scum hunt thing today and if RC is still a main suspect after a few decent wagons then by all means, however the claim is not a scum claim in itself imo.

Following this I also townlean saudade for his joke-counterclaim entrance. I know it's been a few years for you but OMGUSing someone isn't really something that scum exclusively do now. Saudade reads carefree and arrogant in tone which is something I think scum would try to avoid in their posting, so as not to rub people the wrong way. IME scum try to stay under the radar and what RC and Saudade are doing isn't that lol.

[Wh4t]

You avoided my question to you and you seem to have only said things that you think make me scummy but then null read me. Why?

I said you had one of the two most awkward entrances to me. I'm not sure what you wanted me to answer? I avoided moving my vote from you until you reentered the thread and you appear to be pushing your scum reads which elevated you back to null and so I moved onto my next suspect.

I don't recall having said things about you being scummy otherwise?

[FA_Q2]

You avoided my question to you and you seem to have only said things that you think make me scummy but then null read me. Why?

I said you had one of the two most awkward entrances to me. I'm not sure what you wanted me to answer? I avoided moving my vote from you until you reentered the thread and you appear to be pushing your scum reads which elevated you back to null and so I moved onto my next suspect.

I don't recall having said things about you being scummy otherwise?

I want to know what was 'awkward' about it and what constitutes an entrance that would not be awkward.

[Wh4t]

You avoided my question to you and you seem to have only said things that you think make me scummy but then null read me. Why?

I said you had one of the two most awkward entrances to me. I'm not sure what you wanted me to answer? I avoided moving my vote from you until you reentered the thread and you appear to be pushing your scum reads which elevated you back to null and so I moved onto my next suspect.

I don't recall having said things about you being scummy otherwise?

I want to know what was 'awkward' about it and what constitutes an entrance that would not be awkward.

As you said yourself, RVS is RVS so trying to find something that stands out I scanned the posts with my gut feel and your one stood out as trying too hard to be casual, so I pushed to find out. An entrance that would not be awkward would be one that just seems like a natural thing to post, not overly thought out or with some potential underlying agenda. How are these questions helping you?

[RadiantCowbells]

FA have you played with RC before?

Yes I have. I find him a pretty a chaotic player and generally he does play anti-town if I remember correctly - as well as wild ass claims. That was years ago though so my experience is pretty irrelevant. I doubt that his play is going to remain utterly constant over that time.

He is almost always N1 NK or D1 mislynch. If the claim is legit then is it not optimal to claim it when you are someone who is very paranoid about being killed N1? You coming in with such certainty about the claim being false is slightly worrying. The JK doesn't have to protect him but he could and that WIFOM could be enough to keep RC from being targeted.

Again, what town mindset/goal comes from claiming that role. I cant think of a single pro town reason. If he pulled that role it would absolutely be anti-town to claim like that. Further, I cannot think of a town gambit (like drawing the NK) that would work with that claim.

Nothing of that claim comes from a town mindset IMHO. There is a LOT there that I can see coming from a scum mindset.

I disagree with your CT read completely, rushing out of RVS is not AI and in fact scum would most likely want to look proactive to get towncred.

Most of his posts feel like posturing more than anything, like why would someone genuinely believe that players will post links to games for you instead of you doing the work yourself? It reads as LAMIST busy work to me.

If all he did was move on from RVS then it would be totally neutral. What has he done that is posturing other than asking for links? Sure, asking for links is dumb and the other questions are pretty weak but questions generate content. Look at what we are doing now.

So far IAI and CT are scumreads for me.
Null on pretty much everyone else but I want to believe RC is town.

VOTE: IAI

You avoided my question to you and you seem to have only said things that you think make me scummy but then null read me. Why?

So you acknowledge I have a history of doing stuff you feel is wild/anti-town (your words: I disagree) and you vote me for doing something that's... wild/anti-town

I will eat the bullet tonight with incredible consistency, me not claiming would have been awful for town. This isn't even a gambit it's just the objectively correct play.

[RadiantCowbells]

Historically my odds of surviving any given night phase as town are probably around 50% at best.

[RadiantCowbells]

Let's just PL fa_q2 because if they're town they're a useless turd and should probably die anyway their posting makes me want to vomit.

VOTE: fa_q2

[RadiantCowbells]

Like he knows full well that I'm kill bait if he's pulling this shit he's pulling it as an attempt to knock me down a peg or something similarly stupid

[Havo]

Are you 100% sure you want to do this mate?

What’s that? Play a game of mafia?
Yeah, I signed up and everything.

Or do you mean vote you?

Well, you see, you posted something that doesn’t make sense to me. I pointed it out and voted you because of it. And instead of you discussing with me why I have an issue with it, you continue to dodge the specific topic. And imply I’m just bad at the game. IMO you’re coming off as quite defensive when you do this. Which just makes me think it’s more and more likely that you’re not town.

Now if you have any interest in me thinking you are town, thus on my team, I’d think you would want to at least discuss what you said and why you would say it. I believe mafia is a team game. So if you are town we need to work together, give and take, meet each other halfway kind of stuff. But of course if you don’t want to discuss it and want to continue to just imply I’m bad that’s fine too. But I’m more than happy at the moment with where my vote is.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

I'll start reading this when I have time. If I'm too busy, I've no choice but to replace out.

[RadiantCowbells]

like it looks to an uninformed observer like i'm being the aggressive one but fa_q2 isn't stupid enough to sit there and say 'rc is doing rc things therefore rc is scum'
that vote is sheer i want to pick a fight with RC because his playstyle is annoying me right now and lord it over him that I'm arguing that his play is

so stupid

because obviously he only has

1/10

odds of flipping scum

i'm not going to bother dealing with it as passive aggressively or pretend to take the high ground, just wanna get rid of it

[Wh4t]

RC, I'm not sure he's scum though. I think doing the thing you're doing now as town is only going to play to scum advantage by getting more people to vote you.

[DoubtingThomas]

3 bote wagon already! How interesting!

What is interesting is that you felt the need to comment on the wagon w/o taking a stance.

Active lurking...

I am not active lurking.. er.. wasn't

I was passive lurking, bro

[DoubtingThomas]

This is pretty weak but "I am innocent." Doesn't give me a good gut feeling at the moment.

Nice to see you again Skygazer.
Also, Wh4t, why did you change your vote?

From what little I can discern so far garmr seems fine. FA and yourself have the most awkward entrances imo.

Don’t forget texcat

What was wrong with Texcat's entrance?

The same thing that doubting Thomas did, tho DT went way more overboard on it.

No problems with Saud’s entrance but am willing to vote DT at the moment.

Ps - garmr, why no vote then?

What was wrong with my entrance?

YOu know in another website I keep getting warning for being a dick so I was trying to be nice here

and then when I am nice somehow I am getting comments like I 'went way more overboard on it."

like how can i please the human race, right ha ha

[DoubtingThomas]

like it looks to an uninformed observer like i'm being the aggressive one but fa_q2 isn't stupid enough to sit there and say 'rc is doing rc things therefore rc is scum'
that vote is sheer i want to pick a fight with RC because his playstyle is annoying me right now and lord it over him that I'm arguing that his play is

so stupid

because obviously he only has

1/10

odds of flipping scum

i'm not going to bother dealing with it as passive aggressively or pretend to take the high ground, just wanna get rid of it

Hey, are you AKA vibrava?